Question:
>Fear of losing your job, will cause you to act responsible towards your job. >Fear of losing your spouse will cause you to treat your spouse with respect. >For all you ignorants. It is not the action that matters – it is the >result of the action that matters.
So, what *would* the result of the action be? I tell you, fear of losing my job, if it’s because my manager or supervisor is using fear as a tactic, results in my leaving for another job. Ditto for any relationship. ——- "It is difficult to distinguish where the feminine ends and nature begins." - Antonio Carlos Jobim
Response:
"They have no fear for me for the simple reason – they do the right thing. However to get them to do the right thing one has to teach them fear. Fear has nothing to do with being afraid or with being scared. " Fear has nothing to do with doing the right thing…I, for one, for example am not God-"fearing" so when I do something (or am about to) wrong, it is not an EXTERNAL presence that motivates me to change…IT is an internal conscience..IMHO, following authority blindly out of fear is for sheep. I do the right thing because I have grown to be intrinsically morally solid.
Response:
Boy, could I not have said this better myself, Thanks, C!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >"They have no fear for me for the simple reason – they do the right thing. >However to get them to do the right thing one has to teach them fear. >Fear >has nothing to do with being afraid or with being scared. " >Fear has nothing to do with doing the right thing…I, for one, for >example am not God-"fearing" so when I do something (or am about to) >wrong, it is not an EXTERNAL presence that motivates me to change…IT is >an internal conscience..IMHO, following authority blindly out of fear is >for sheep. I do the right thing because I have grown to be intrinsically >morally solid.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->As an observer, it is always easy to criticize. >The use of authority is always perceived as abuse of authority. >Place yourself in a similar situation and ask yourself what you would do. >Fear is a great deterent for anyone. Good parenting involves trying to >instill some fear into the child. >Huh? You WANT your children to be afraid of you? Wonderful. They will learn >that love = fear. >Psychology is a poor substitute as a teaching matter between man and boy. >ROTFL! >You, sir, are ignorant. Confine yourself to discussions for which you have >sufficient knowledge. >Natalie >>I saw the show in question and was disturbed by the absolute lack of >skills >>displayed by the so called special foster parents. They basically bullied >>the kids into submission. Not exactly the way to empower people IMO. On >the >>other hand, it seems apparent these kids have psychiatric disorders that >>will not respond to behavioral methods alone. >>Natalie
Four sons between the ages of 30 and 17 and I have no problems with them. They know who their father is for the simple reason I act like a father. They have no fear for me for the simple reason – they do the right thing. However to get them to do the right thing one has to teach them fear. Fear has nothing to do with being afraid or with being scared. Fear of losing your job, will cause you to act responsible towards your job. Fear of losing your spouse will cause you to treat your spouse with respect. For all you ignorants. It is not the action that matters – it is the result of the action that matters.
Response:
As an observer, it is always easy to criticize. The use of authority is always perceived as abuse of authority. Place yourself in a similar situation and ask yourself what you would do. Fear is a great deterent for anyone. Good parenting involves trying to instill some fear into the child. Psychology is a poor substitute as a teaching matter between man and boy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I saw the show in question and was disturbed by the absolute lack of skills >displayed by the so called special foster parents. They basically bullied >the kids into submission. Not exactly the way to empower people IMO. On the >other hand, it seems apparent these kids have psychiatric disorders that >will not respond to behavioral methods alone. >Natalie
Response:
> >As an observer, it is always easy to criticize. >The use of authority is always perceived as abuse of authority. >Place yourself in a similar situation and ask yourself what you would do. >Fear is a great deterent for anyone. Good parenting involves trying to >instill some fear into the child. > Huh? You WANT your children to be afraid of you? Wonderful. They will learn > that love = fear.
I saw the kids in question briefly. No, I don’t think that kids need to be terrified of parents, but that they should have a real healthy hesitation about ticking off mom and dad. Those kids were especially pathetic because their mom was by far to wimpy to maintain any order in the home. The boys had absolutely no fear of their mother’s wrath. Many don’t want to think about it, but studies have shown that men, with their low voices, don’t even have to yell to give kids pause. Sometimes, just ticking dad off is scary enough to prevent a lot of misbehavior in the first place. In the case of girls, just having their fathers chastize them is enough to make them cry. — Elaine Gallegos
Response:
Yeah, great point. That is why our jails are oh so empty–that fear of going to jail is a real deterrent. Trolling by any chance?? On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, it was written: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> As an observer, it is always easy to criticize. > The use of authority is always perceived as abuse of authority. > Place yourself in a similar situation and ask yourself what you would do. > Fear is a great deterent for anyone. Good parenting involves trying to > instill some fear into the child. > Psychology is a poor substitute as a teaching matter between man and boy. >I saw the show in question and was disturbed by the absolute lack of skills >displayed by the so called special foster parents. They basically bullied >the kids into submission. Not exactly the way to empower people IMO. On the >other hand, it seems apparent these kids have psychiatric disorders that >will not respond to behavioral methods alone. >Natalie
Response:
>As an observer, it is always easy to criticize. >The use of authority is always perceived as abuse of authority. >Place yourself in a similar situation and ask yourself what you would do. >Fear is a great deterent for anyone. Good parenting involves trying to >instill some fear into the child.
Huh? You WANT your children to be afraid of you? Wonderful. They will learn that love = fear. >Psychology is a poor substitute as a teaching matter between man and boy.
ROTFL! You, sir, are ignorant. Confine yourself to discussions for which you have sufficient knowledge. Natalie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I saw the show in question and was disturbed by the absolute lack of skills >displayed by the so called special foster parents. They basically bullied >the kids into submission. Not exactly the way to empower people IMO. On the >other hand, it seems apparent these kids have psychiatric disorders that >will not respond to behavioral methods alone. >Natalie
Response:
I saw the show too. I remember wondering how much impact the moms decision to give in all the time had on the boys behavior. Though I didn’t recall the foster parents being overbearing to the boys. They did show one scene when the foster father was, as they talked about how sometimes you get so frustrated you don’t follow the theraputic prescribed approach. It was sad watching the mother cry as one of the boys was playing with the knife in the kitchen, acting out killing her. They showed a home visit where one boy came up behind her using his hand as a gun and pointed it at her head. She was totally unaware of it. Since she ran out of money not that the kids were ready to be home I wouldn’t be surprised if she passes on before her time. I know the government can not take on the burden of every person. But this situation looks dangerous. I hope this family will be able to find more reasources to help the boys. writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> A diagnosis of pathologically violent behavior seems to me to be an > indicator that the kid is not trustworthy to remain in the home. You see, > the home must remain a place where all members are safe. If the child is > plotting to attack/kill the parent the first time they let their guard >down, > the parent cannot be safe in that house. >I saw the show mentioned below and some details are wrong. The mother of the >12yo twin boys (one diagnosed during/after foster care with tourettes) was >having severe problems with depression etc. She mentions during the interview >that she *was* very liberal and let the boys get away with everything because >she just couldn’t handle it, she admitted to being manipulated by the boys’ >violent behavior. She got help and her kids went into a *special* foster home >with *special* foster parents who were trained specifically in how to deal >with problem/violent children. Their plan seemed to be low-emotion, very >clear limits constantly reinforced – they didn’t go into specifics during the >show about the rewards/punishments. Unfortunately, the money for this ran out >and the boys were returned to their mother who, while feeling much better, >still felt in danger and unable to cope. >So, yes, the boys had actual physiological reasons for their behaviour which >was compounded by the (single?) mothers inability to cope. >-Alexis > > I saw a show on 20/20 about foster children who terrorized their parents. > > These kids were basically psychopaths who flew into blind rages at home > > when foiled in the slightest way. The rages included death threats aimed > > at parent. One mother feared she would be killed some day in the near > > future. > > The parents were not overly liberal or ineffectual–the primary problem > > was the kids’ psychopathology, making normal parenting strategies hard or > > impossible to apply. > > On the show they mentioned that foster parents often encounter kids like > > this and there are effective strategies for dealing with the blind rages. > > Can anyone out there refer me to books or URLs that deal with such > > parenting strategies? > > Thanks. > > Bill > — > Elaine Gallegos >Path: >lobby03.news.aol.com!newstf02.news.aol.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!newsfeed.
wli.net!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed. cwix.com!204.238.120.130!news-feeds.jump.net!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.deja news.com!not-for-mail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Newsgroups: alt.parenting.solutions >Organization: Deja News – The Leader in Internet Discussion >Lines: 59 >NNTP-Posting-Host: 134.174.108.83 >X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) >X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x2.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 134.174.108.83
Response:
I saw the show in question and was disturbed by the absolute lack of skills displayed by the so called special foster parents. They basically bullied the kids into submission. Not exactly the way to empower people IMO. On the other hand, it seems apparent these kids have psychiatric disorders that will not respond to behavioral methods alone. Natalie
Response:
A diagnosis of pathologically violent behavior seems to me to be an indicator that the kid is not trustworthy to remain in the home. You see, the home must remain a place where all members are safe. If the child is plotting to attack/kill the parent the first time they let their guard down, the parent cannot be safe in that house. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I saw a show on 20/20 about foster children who terrorized their parents. > These kids were basically psychopaths who flew into blind rages at home > when foiled in the slightest way. The rages included death threats aimed > at parent. One mother feared she would be killed some day in the near > future. > The parents were not overly liberal or ineffectual–the primary problem > was the kids’ psychopathology, making normal parenting strategies hard or > impossible to apply. > On the show they mentioned that foster parents often encounter kids like > this and there are effective strategies for dealing with the blind rages. > Can anyone out there refer me to books or URLs that deal with such > parenting strategies? > Thanks. > Bill
– Elaine Gallegos
Response:
> A diagnosis of pathologically violent behavior seems to me to be an > indicator that the kid is not trustworthy to remain in the home. You see, > the home must remain a place where all members are safe. If the child is > plotting to attack/kill the parent the first time they let their guard down, > the parent cannot be safe in that house.
I saw the show mentioned below and some details are wrong. The mother of the 12yo twin boys (one diagnosed during/after foster care with tourettes) was having severe problems with depression etc. She mentions during the interview that she *was* very liberal and let the boys get away with everything because she just couldn’t handle it, she admitted to being manipulated by the boys’ violent behavior. She got help and her kids went into a *special* foster home with *special* foster parents who were trained specifically in how to deal with problem/violent children. Their plan seemed to be low-emotion, very clear limits constantly reinforced – they didn’t go into specifics during the show about the rewards/punishments. Unfortunately, the money for this ran out and the boys were returned to their mother who, while feeling much better, still felt in danger and unable to cope. So, yes, the boys had actual physiological reasons for their behaviour which was compounded by the (single?) mothers inability to cope. -Alexis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I saw a show on 20/20 about foster children who terrorized their parents. > These kids were basically psychopaths who flew into blind rages at home > when foiled in the slightest way. The rages included death threats aimed > at parent. One mother feared she would be killed some day in the near > future. > The parents were not overly liberal or ineffectual–the primary problem > was the kids’ psychopathology, making normal parenting strategies hard or > impossible to apply. > On the show they mentioned that foster parents often encounter kids like > this and there are effective strategies for dealing with the blind rages. > Can anyone out there refer me to books or URLs that deal with such > parenting strategies? > Thanks. > Bill > — > Elaine Gallegos
Response:
I saw a show on 20/20 about foster children who terrorized their parents. These kids were basically psychopaths who flew into blind rages at home when foiled in the slightest way. The rages included death threats aimed at parent. One mother feared she would be killed some day in the near future. The parents were not overly liberal or ineffectual–the primary problem was the kids’ psychopathology, making normal parenting strategies hard or impossible to apply. On the show they mentioned that foster parents often encounter kids like this and there are effective strategies for dealing with the blind rages. Can anyone out there refer me to books or URLs that deal with such parenting strategies? Thanks. Bill
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