Pure Parents

Question:

I think you all are way off track from the original post.  Her concern was about her three year old acting out.  Most of these incidents probably "happen" at daycare because this is where she spends a large portion of her day.  How about if we all help her out with her specific problem and stop bad mouthing each other and getting into a debate about daycare. Amy

Response:

> : Elaine doesn’t have kids.  She claims to be interested in human and > : animal behavior and to study human development thus her keen interest > : in this newsgroup. >  You mean that I’m NOT interested in human development and behavior?

Your interest in human development and behavior does not, in any way, justify your hurtful commentary. -Alexis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > : > > : > > : > > : > > : >>  Yes. I have something nice to say. parent your kids when they are > : >> little. You can fix the problems now. If your baby grows up in > : daycare it > : >> may never bond with anyone. It’s easy to warehouse the kid now, but > : the > : >> family is going to have REAL problems when they’re 15-16, and > : completely > : >> unconnected with the parents. > : >> > : > > : >I take it you’re speaking from experience then Elaine?  You’ve got > : 15-16 year olds > : >that have REAL problems?  If not then don’t assume you know all the > : answers.  It’s > : >the likes of you that put me off posting any personal problems to this > : newsgroup > : >at all. > : > > : >Debbie > : >

Response:

Hi All, I’ve read all of the posts concerning my Strong Willed Daughter.  I appreciate all of the friendly advice. Thanks. SarahB

Response:

: Elaine doesn’t have kids.  She claims to be interested in human and : animal behavior and to study human development thus her keen interest : in this newsgroup.  You mean that I’m NOT interested in human development and behavior? : > : > : >

: > : >>  Yes. I have something nice to say. parent your kids when they are : >> little. You can fix the problems now. If your baby grows up in : daycare it : >> may never bond with anyone. It’s easy to warehouse the kid now, but : the : >> family is going to have REAL problems when they’re 15-16, and : completely : >> unconnected with the parents. : >> : > : >I take it you’re speaking from experience then Elaine?  You’ve got : 15-16 year olds : >that have REAL problems?  If not then don’t assume you know all the : answers.  It’s : >the likes of you that put me off posting any personal problems to this : newsgroup : >at all. : > : >Debbie : >

Response:

Dear Elaine: Come over to my home & hangout w/ my 2.5yo for an hour. Not only will your doubts disintegrate, you’ll swear U never had any! regards, karen ~:-) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->  I have doubts as to how effective it is to reason with a 2 year old.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >  I have doubts as to how effective it is to reason with a 2 year old. > : Let me start by saying  there is nothing  wrong with good daycare  my > : daughter goes and does not have to  she is 2.5 and  loves it  she is > : also a strong willed child VERY strong willed  we only have had 1 > : problem in  her daycare  and her teacher and I solved it  by discussing > : it together with Lauren  she was throwing food  at lunch  we let her > : know that she could hurt someone  doing this and if she did it anymore > : she would have to sit at a diff. table from the rest of the kids  (in > : the same room of course ) it only happened 1 more time  her teacher > : followed our plan of action and it worked.  I think what actually worked > : was the communication  between her teacher and myself  and we also > : presented a united front to my daughter .  good luck strong willed > : children  are hard  but you will be rewarded later on   shannon mommy of > : Lauren

She didn’t say it was the reasoning that worked… it was the action.  She told her daughter clearly what would happen if she did that again.  The child did it again and the promised consequences came about.  The child didn’t like sitting alone so she modified her behavior. — Captain Denise Duggan (HyperMommy to Jimmy (10/93) & Joey (9/95)) USS Khai Tam, Tallahassee, Florida Chief Medical Officer and Extraneous Brass

Response:

>  Yes. I have something nice to say. parent your kids when they are > little. You can fix the problems now. If your baby grows up in daycare it > may never bond with anyone. It’s easy to warehouse the kid now, but the > family is going to have REAL problems when they’re 15-16, and completely > unconnected with the parents.

I take it you’re speaking from experience then Elaine?  You’ve got 15-16 year olds that have REAL problems?  If not then don’t assume you know all the answers.  It’s the likes of you that put me off posting any personal problems to this newsgroup at all. Debbie

Response:

>  I have doubts as to how effective it is to reason with a 2 year old.

Why do you have doubts? A 2 year old child is more receptive than you seem to give them credit. Debbie

Response:

Elaine doesn’t have kids.  She claims to be interested in human and animal behavior and to study human development thus her keen interest in this newsgroup. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->  Yes. I have something nice to say. parent your kids when they are > little. You can fix the problems now. If your baby grows up in daycare it > may never bond with anyone. It’s easy to warehouse the kid now, but the > family is going to have REAL problems when they’re 15-16, and completely > unconnected with the parents. >I take it you’re speaking from experience then Elaine?  You’ve got 15-16 year olds >that have REAL problems?  If not then don’t assume you know all the answers.  It’s >the likes of you that put me off posting any personal problems to this newsgroup >at all. >Debbie

Response:

 I have doubts as to how effective it is to reason with a 2 year old.

: Let me start by saying  there is nothing  wrong with good daycare  my : daughter goes and does not have to  she is 2.5 and  loves it  she is : also a strong willed child VERY strong willed  we only have had 1 : problem in  her daycare  and her teacher and I solved it  by discussing : it together with Lauren  she was throwing food  at lunch  we let her : know that she could hurt someone  doing this and if she did it anymore : she would have to sit at a diff. table from the rest of the kids  (in : the same room of course ) it only happened 1 more time  her teacher : followed our plan of action and it worked.  I think what actually worked : was the communication  between her teacher and myself  and we also : presented a united front to my daughter .  good luck strong willed : children  are hard  but you will be rewarded later on   shannon mommy of : Lauren

Response:

Let me start by saying  there is nothing  wrong with good daycare  my daughter goes and does not have to  she is 2.5 and  loves it  she is also a strong willed child VERY strong willed  we only have had 1 problem in  her daycare  and her teacher and I solved it  by discussing it together with Lauren  she was throwing food  at lunch  we let her know that she could hurt someone  doing this and if she did it anymore she would have to sit at a diff. table from the rest of the kids  (in the same room of course ) it only happened 1 more time  her teacher followed our plan of action and it worked.  I think what actually worked was the communication  between her teacher and myself  and we also presented a united front to my daughter .  good luck strong willed children  are hard  but you will be rewarded later on   shannon mommy of Lauren

Response:

Society has long had a problem dealing w/ anger. The Bible says "be angry & sin not" but most folks I know & have seen &/or dealt w/ don’t seem to be working AT ALL on how to do that. I’ve worked w/ the public & in customer service. Many who get angry are just red-hot emotional jerks. Or, some go to the other extreme & are doormats who hold their temper & nurse a grudge or blab about it to everyone *but* the persons directly involved. Somehow we have to learn to deal appropriately w/ anger. It’s not easy for adults, let alone sm kids. I think Elaine’s pt is well-taken when she says that daycare may not be capable of solving the problem. Maybe just the symptom–IF they’re lucky. They don’t have the time for much intervention. Nor is it their role. If she’s angry at YOU for being in daycare, because she’d rather be w/ U, then maybe she’s just punishing or scape-goating on them? If this is the case, then the solution is more 1-on-1 time w/ U. Or perhaps she’s having her first "personality clash?" Or maybe she’s jealous of another’s perceived preferential treatment? Talk to her in quiet moments about what’s upsetting her about teachers. Then talk about expressing feelings in appropriate ways. Give her helpful examples. Role play. It is impossible/unreasonable to ask a 3yo to NOT feel anger. Merely scolding her to not call teacher’s names probably doesn’t get to the heart of the matter. I’ve found w/ my 2.5yo that talking specifically about feelings of anger & upset has been quite helpful to her temperment. I’ve let her know that it’s OK to be angry/upset & I encourage her to tell me when she is & to explain what/why; however, I have to remind her often that it’s NOT OK to yell at me or backtalk in retaliation. I try to NOT punish her for this when she’s angry but instead give a firm reminder & also validate her feelings; sometimes, a time-out is necessary to diffuse a situation before we can begin to work thru the disagreement/whatever. We usu come to an "understanding" or strike a deal in compromise. It takes time, effort, patience; this is sometimes a tall order for this SAHM. I can imagine it’d be illusory for a daycare worker on most days. As time goes on, I hope her stating & expressing her anger or frus- tration w/ words to me & whomever is the "alleged cause" will help her vent feelings in the rt direction/at the rt person, not a scape goat. IMHO, this is first done by *not* attaching stigma to the anger & trying to appropriatley address the cause(s). THIS is the work of a parent, not a daycare teacher. However, if U should try going this route, then it may be wise to inform daycare & enlist their input & reinforcement, for consistency & continuity. I dunno, perhaps they could come-up with a suitable toy for her to "go off" on until she’s reasonable to talk to. Warm regards, karen ~:-) **This has been IMHO**   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a 3 yr. old daughter who’s having problems at Daycare.  She has a > tendency to fight her teachers and yesterday she called her teacher a "bad" > name.   When she gets angry she goes "off".  I would appreciate any > suggestions on how I can help her school deal with her.  She gets angry at > home, but she knows she can’t act out like she does at school. > Thanks. SarahB

Response:

I would quit now if I were you Elaine, you are completely on the wrong track.  You are obviously talking about an isolated incident that YOU know of. Helen.

Response:

: >Yes. I have something nice to say. parent your kids when they are : >little. You can fix the problems now. If your baby grows up in daycare it : >may never bond with anyone. : You know, it doesn’t even sound like you are responding to the original posters : question.  It sounds more like you are using any opportunity to start something : up about daycare.   : Linda C.  The point being that the child is not adjusting to the daycare. She’s too young. There is no way to make a toddler adjust to life without parents. Daycare is an unnatural setting for babies and toddlers. It screws with their ablitilty to bond with their primary caregiver.  Linda, I think that you are resentful that anyone would even dare to suggest that this problem cannot be fixed at or by daycare.  The child is failing to adjust to the situation.

Response:

>If your baby grows up in daycare it may never bond with anyone.

Not true unless you place your child in a 3rd rate daycare where they don’t pay any attention to the kids – you know, the kind you see on Primetime Live.  But not every daycare is like that, and loving & caring parents aren’t going to place their child in a 3rd rate daycare (knowingly). >It’s easy to warehouse the kid now, but the family is going to have REAL

problems >when they’re 15-16, and completely unconnected with the parents. See above…

Response:

>Yes. I have something nice to say. parent your kids when they are >little. You can fix the problems now. If your baby grows up in daycare it >may never bond with anyone.

You know, it doesn’t even sound like you are responding to the original posters question.  It sounds more like you are using any opportunity to start something up about daycare.   Linda C.

Response:

Hi All, I have a 3 yr. old daughter who’s having problems at Daycare.  She has a tendency to fight her teachers and yesterday she called her teacher a "bad" name.   When she gets angry she goes "off".  I would appreciate any suggestions on how I can help her school deal with her.  She gets angry at home, but she knows she can’t act out like she does at school. Thanks. SarahB

Response:

Sarah I suspect her only problem is that she is 3 years old.  It is time to test the old boundries again.  I have a three year old daughter also, and we have been through some times with her.  I have noticed that she seems to cycle through about a week’s worth of havoc every month.  Who knows, but I suspect pre-menstrual tendencies, although it sounds ridiculous at three years old, she is woman-to-be and she has hormones.  Every other parent of three year olds that I have talked to about her behavior say that they experience the same behavior fallout with their own.  You hear so much about the "Terrible Twos", but I think age three is actually the transition between toddlerhood and childhood.  This is a difficult time, but I think patience and the fact that every passing day will bring them closer to the "Fabulous Fours" will get us through.  That’s what *I* focus on anyway.. Amy Grant, Elaina, & Troy’s favorite mom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi All, >I have a 3 yr. old daughter who’s having problems at Daycare.  She has a >tendency to fight her teachers and yesterday she called her teacher a "bad" >name.   When she gets angry she goes "off".  I would appreciate any >suggestions on how I can help her school deal with her.  She gets angry at >home, but she knows she can’t act out like she does at school. >Thanks. >SarahB

Response:

What are some of the techniques you use at home?  I don’t see why these could not be applied by the daycare.  Then, she will learn quickly that just as she can not act up at home, she can not act up at daycare. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi All, >I have a 3 yr. old daughter who’s having problems at Daycare.  She has a >tendency to fight her teachers and yesterday she called her teacher a "bad" >name.   When she gets angry she goes "off".  I would appreciate any >suggestions on how I can help her school deal with her.  She gets angry at >home, but she knows she can’t act out like she does at school. >Thanks. >SarahB

Response:

I have noticed that she seems to cycle through about a week’s worth of havoc every month.  Who knows, but I suspect pre-menstrual tendencies, although it sounds ridiculous at three years old, she is woman-to-be and she has hormones.     It is funny that you should mention this, because that was the very first thought that ran through my mind when I read it.   I dont know if it is possible for a child as young as that to have the beginnings of PMS, but why shouldnt it be possible?    Maybe a doctor should be asked about the possibilities of PMS at 3 yrs. DO YOU WANT TO LOSE WEIGHT? Lose 10 -30 pounds in the next 30 days! 100% NATURAL! 100% MONEY BACK GUARANTEE! (530) 666-9185

Response:

I agree with Turtle that the best thing to do would be to sit down with the teachers and talk about problem behavior both at home and at school so that the consequences of the same behavior (no matter the place) will be the same. If your daughter learns that what she does will have prompt and consistent reactions, then she’ll stop (for the time being anyway) testing limits. I would highly recommend, if they don’t have one already, that the daycare make a quiet area where they can encourage her to go when she is feeling anxious and then, when the teachers sense that she’s about to go overboard, they can suggest that she takes a minute to cool down. Another thing you might want to do is sit down with your daughter and tell her exactly what it is you expect and what the potential outcomes of her negative behavior might be. Make sure that your daughter knows that you and her teachers are in communication with each other and that disruptive/negative behavior at school will be followed up on at home. Explain why you think what she has been doing is a problem. Give her strategies that might help her deal with her anger. Talk about what *you* do when you get angry, frustrated and impatient. Hypothesize about what life would be like if you reacted as she does when she’s upset. Also, I’ve noticed that when my daughter is stressed about something (anything, not necessarily school-related) she starts acting out at school. Find out if your daughter is worried or stressed about something and, if she is, concentrate on dealing with that instead of focusing on her negative behavior. Give ample praise (hugs and celebration!) for good days that your daughter has so that she gets *more* attention when she controls her anger successfully. Good luck!! -Alexis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What are some of the techniques you use at home?  I don’t see why these > could not be applied by the daycare.  Then, she will learn quickly that just > as she can not act up at home, she can not act up at daycare. >Hi All, >I have a 3 yr. old daughter who’s having problems at Daycare.  She has a >tendency to fight her teachers and yesterday she called her teacher a "bad" >name.   When she gets angry she goes "off".  I would appreciate any >suggestions on how I can help her school deal with her.  She gets angry at >home, but she knows she can’t act out like she does at school. >Thanks. >SarahB

Response:

> This child lacks parenting and is having attachment issues. Fix it now, >or forever hold your peace. Parent you kids!

I don’t think that "this child lacks parenting".  Some children are just strong-willed (mine is), and what is wrong with that?  I would rather have a strong-willed child than one that just goes along with everything.  I strong-will is a great thing to have if it is funneled in the right direction.  I think that part of Sarah’s child’s problem is that she is just a 3 year old.  But, she does need to know that she can not act different at daycare than she is allowed to act at home.  I think that Sarah is "parenting her kid".  Her asking for advice is part of that proof.

Response:

 This child lacks parenting and is having attachment issues. Fix it now, or forever hold your peace. Parent you kids!

: Hi All, : I have a 3 yr. old daughter who’s having problems at Daycare.  She has a : tendency to fight her teachers and yesterday she called her teacher a "bad" : name.   When she gets angry she goes "off".  I would appreciate any : suggestions on how I can help her school deal with her.  She gets angry at : home, but she knows she can’t act out like she does at school. : Thanks. : SarahB

Response:

>: Hi All, >: I have a 3 yr. old daughter who’s having problems at Daycare.  She has a >: tendency to fight her teachers and yesterday she called her teacher a "bad" >: name.   When she gets angry she goes "off".  I would appreciate any >: suggestions on how I can help her school deal with her.  She gets angry at >: home, but she knows she can’t act out like she does at school. >: Thanks. >: SarahB

Elaine Gallegos jumped to conclusions and responded.. > This child lacks parenting and is having attachment issues. Fix it now, >or forever hold your peace. Parent you kids!

Good one, Elaine.  Oh, to be as wise as you…to be able to conclude from one situation that a 3 year old who is acting out "lacks parenting".  How must it feel to be so introspective?  I sure wish I had the ability to make a sweeping judgement and swift conclusion, it would save me from actually having to think once in a while.  I’m not quite as willing to just jump to the conclusion that a 3 year old child who has a quick temper lacks parenting, and I’m not sure how many children of that age DON’T have attachment issues.  I have read and re-read the initial post trying to infer from it what you must have, that somehow this mother is not responding properly, I just can’t see it.  She does not say anything about not giving her daughter consequences for her behavior, and I’m assuming she does punish her as the little girl does not act like that at home.  She is simply asking for suggestions as to how to direct the school to deal with her. You know, it’s exactly responses such as yours that make people reluctant to ask for advice in this group, I’ve had e-mail to that effect on a couple of occasions.  People are made to feel like complete idiots and are chastised by others who don’t know a damned thing about their situation, other than what they ASSUME to be the case from a short post.  It might be wise for you to think about the old adgae…if you don’t have anything nice to say, I’m sure you know the rest! Nicole

Response:

 Yes. I have something nice to say. parent your kids when they are little. You can fix the problems now. If your baby grows up in daycare it may never bond with anyone. It’s easy to warehouse the kid now, but the family is going to have REAL problems when they’re 15-16, and completely unconnected with the parents.

: >: Hi All, : > : >: I have a 3 yr. old daughter who’s having problems at Daycare.  She has a : >: tendency to fight her teachers and yesterday she called her teacher a : "bad" : >: name.   When she gets angry she goes "off".  I would appreciate any : >: suggestions on how I can help her school deal with her.  She gets angry : at : >: home, but she knows she can’t act out like she does at school. : > : >: Thanks. : > : >: SarahB : > : Elaine Gallegos jumped to conclusions and responded.. : > : > This child lacks parenting and is having attachment issues. Fix it now, : >or forever hold your peace. Parent you kids! : Good one, Elaine.  Oh, to be as wise as you…to be able to conclude from : one situation that a 3 year old who is acting out "lacks parenting".  How : must it feel to be so introspective?  I sure wish I had the ability to make : a sweeping judgement and swift conclusion, it would save me from actually : having to think once in a while.  I’m not quite as willing to just jump to : the conclusion that a 3 year old child who has a quick temper lacks : parenting, and I’m not sure how many children of that age DON’T have : attachment issues.  I have read and re-read the initial post trying to infer : from it what you must have, that somehow this mother is not responding : properly, I just can’t see it.  She does not say anything about not giving : her daughter consequences for her behavior, and I’m assuming she does punish : her as the little girl does not act like that at home.  She is simply asking : for suggestions as to how to direct the school to deal with her. : You know, it’s exactly responses such as yours that make people reluctant to : ask for advice in this group, I’ve had e-mail to that effect on a couple of : occasions.  People are made to feel like complete idiots and are chastised : by others who don’t know a damned thing about their situation, other than : what they ASSUME to be the case from a short post.  It might be wise for you : to think about the old adgae…if you don’t have anything nice to say, I’m : sure you know the rest! : Nicole

Response:

Well said Leah!!!! JMHO Sam (White Storm Cloud) "Who knows where thoughts come from – they just appear." – Lucas, Empire Records

Response:

>And there are trustworthy babysitters out there.  Find a girl who >regularly attends a church or synagogue

Why must it be a girl? And why must she regularly attend a church or synagogue to be a trustworthy babysitter?  Just curious.  LOL This sounds like it should be in the religion thread that has scorched through the newsgroup over the past few days (which sad to say, I played a very large part in)  Drop in and read it – maybe you’ll understand why I ask when you see what my views are on the subject. JMHO Sam (White Storm Cloud) "Who knows where thoughts come from – they just appear." – Lucas, Empire Records

Response:

Leah, WOW.  I’ve only known one kids diagnosed with ADHD (mine are still little — I’m sure I’ll meet more), and he was a zombie on Ritalin.  I’ve been reading up on it (ADHD) because I’ve had concerns about my son (3-1/2).  Anyway, it’s kind of sad to hear that my nephew probably spent years on a too high dose of Ritalin.  Your son’s story is certainly different!   It always freaked me out to read about how many kids are on Ritalin, because I pictured them all to be like my nephew — basically, a zombie until the drug wore off, and then just wild till the next dose went in.  I’m glad that it’s really not like that. Also, you mentioned that many kids do not do well on the diet — I think you’re referring to a "one diet fits all" — elimination of red dyes and a few other things.  My son reacts to foods — things like rice, grapes and corn cause behavioural problems and well, I actually can’t even describe how wild he gets.  I’ve been doing a lot of reading, and I don’t think this is totally uncommon.  My son did have other symptoms of food intolerance though, including loose stools.  An elimination diet would, at least, be another alternative for people to try before (or with) medication.  For me, and my son, the difference is phenomenal.  He will always be a busy child, but he’s no longer out of control. BTW, the comparison of the Ritalin for your son and the anti convulsants for your husband really hit home for me.  My daughter is on anticonvulsants and much as I hate giving her drugs, I do because I know they’re necessary to her well being … I never looked at Ritalin that way before. elsie

Response:

Thank you for clearing that up  :) Like I said, I thought had misunderstood (happens pretty often!)   Have a great day! JMHO Sam (White Storm Cloud) "Who knows where thoughts come from – they just appear." – Lucas, Empire Records

Response:

        Didn’t a doctor have to prescribe the Ritalin in the first place?   And didn’t a doctor monitor the drug’s effects on the child?           And by the way, Leah, I found the word "brith" in a Harry Kemelman mystery.  I believe you told my dear Sister Henrietta that word was incorrect.  I think an apology is in order. God be with you, Reverend Mother Eulalia Meadows

Response:

: Why must [the babysitter] be a girl? : And why must she regularly attend a church or synagogue to be a trustworthy : babysitter? Sam, I think you’re taking my advice out of context.  My first statement on the subject was this: "There are a lot of good babysitters out there." I said nothing about the sex or piety of the person.  However, the father is obviously uneasy, and will probably be more comfortable with a young lady who is active in a religious institution.  He is obviously wary on calling on family members to help him.  Why shouldn’t he seek out brothers and especially sisters within his faith community?  Young men typically have little experience handling children.  Older men are usually too busy.  Otherwise there is nothing wrong with asking a man to babysit.  I know I’d prefer a churchgoer to someone who spends his or her time in bars and pool halls. Love, Mother Eululia Meadows

Response:

> have a five year old boy, it seems to me that when we go out in public >he gets very hard to control and gets more out of control as time goes >on. I suppose he is hyper active, but I dont know what to do. His >preschool teacher sugested riddlin, but i am apposed to givig him drugs >and turn him into a mindless zombie. I know he is just a little boy with >lots of energy but I hate going out in public with him, or go out to eat >with him there as he most times ruins the evening. And of corse trying >to find a trustworthy babysitter is like trying to find a trustworthy >president.

  Just a few things to point out.  You suppose he is hyperactive . . .. . why not get a doctor’s diagnosis before you come to that conclusion?  Also, I don’t have a lot of experience with hyperactive children, but my cousin was diagnosed hyperactive when he was very young, and whatever was prescribed for him to take certainly never turned him into a mindless zombie.  He was simply able to handle himself more calmly, as opposed to him being completely out of control. I don’t know what the drug was, but at least I can tell you there are drugs out there that won’t turn him into a mindless zombie.  Try consulting a doctor – teacher’s may have lots of experience with kids, but they are not medically trained.  Just something to think about. JMHO Sam (White Storm Cloud) "Who knows where thoughts come from – they just appear." – Lucas, Empire Records

Response:

I have a five year old boy, it seems to me that when we go out in public he gets very hard to control and gets more out of control as time goes on. I suppose he is hyper active, but I dont know what to do. His preschool teacher sugested riddlin, but i am apposed to givig him drugs and turn him into a mindless zombie. I know he is just a little boy with lots of energy but I hate going out in public with him, or go out to eat with him there as he most times ruins the evening. And of corse trying to find a trustworthy babysitter is like trying to find a trustworthy president.

Response:

Hi Dan – My younger brother was the same way for many years.  His teachers suggested my mother put him on ritalin, and because she didn’t know what else to do, she gave in and did it.  The drug made him like a zombie…into a person we didn’t know.  He sat quietly through his class, anti-social, and learning nothing at all. My mother then found a bit of information that suggested that kids who are hyperactive are that way due to food allergies.  It seems that some children cannot handle certain things.  By eliminating foods with preservatives and red dyes (even naturally red foods, such as tomatoes and apples, red juices, anything red), she gave him the ability to control his behavior…..without changing his personality or using drugs.  I think its really important to understand your child may have no control over his actions, and while you may get frustrated, I don’t think discipline will help.  I’m going to drop another note here in a few days, with the name of the book she used (I’ll have to call her) =) Anyway, hang in there!  You’ll find a solution that works for you!  And don’t give in to the teachers so soon! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I have a five year old boy, it seems to me that when we go out in public >he gets very hard to control and gets more out of control as time goes >on. I suppose he is hyper active, but I dont know what to do. His >preschool teacher sugested riddlin, but i am apposed to givig him drugs >and turn him into a mindless zombie. I know he is just a little boy with >lots of energy but I hate going out in public with him, or go out to eat >with him there as he most times ruins the evening. And of corse trying >to find a trustworthy babysitter is like trying to find a trustworthy >president.

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> I have a five year old boy, it seems to me that when we go out in public > he gets very hard to control and gets more out of control as time goes > on. I suppose he is hyper active, but I dont know what to do. His > preschool teacher sugested riddlin, but i am apposed to givig him drugs > and turn him into a mindless zombie.

First of all, teachers should not be suggesting what drugs he can use.  The teacher could direct you to where he can get tested.  My son’s school has a child psychologist that can be called in and was for him. Also speech therapist that can evaluate your son would be good.  Does he have any kind of speech delay? Or is his speech behind the other kids in his class?  My son was not diagnosed as attention deficit disorder but was diagnosed with a language learning disorder.  Ask your school if they can direct you where to get help. > I know he is just a little boy with > lots of energy but I hate going out in public with him, or go out to eat > with him there as he most times ruins the evening. And of corse trying > to find a trustworthy babysitter is like trying to find a trustworthy > president.

I know how you feel.  We could not take our son anywhere without the looking forward to the temper tantrum, so we did not go out because of a lack of babysitters.  Is he like this all the time or just when you go out? What I did to finally get rid of my son’s tantrums was sit him down and tell him that they were no longer acceptable.  If he had a tantrum, I would not discipline until he was done the tantrum.   Discipline would be taking away TV time, tapes that he wanted,  no going to the park.  Whatever would be appropriate at that time.  If we were at the park and he had a tantrum,  he was told that we would not go the next time he wanted to go to the park. Do not get angry when he is having his tantrum, it only feeds into the tantrum.  Put him in his room, or if you are out in your car, or in a nearby washroom.  Like I stated before, do not discipline him when he is in the middle of his tantrum,  it only makes it worse.  Also, I would like to point out, try to use corporal punishment, it is not very effective.  Wait until the fit is over and then explain what his punishment will be and that until he agrees to not throwing a fit, you won’t be taking him to the park or to the store.But above all you should go to your school, or your doctor and have him tested to see if there is anything that is physically wrong.  It might save you alot of grief. Good Luck Jennifer

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If he only presents a problem in public, then I doubt it’s a problem that can be solved by medicating the kid. Maybe he has trouble dealing with anything but his home environment. You should contact your school district & find out how to get him evaluated. I am getting my son evaluated by our school district – I see some disturbing behavior & I want to confirm what it is. The evaluations & tests they are giving my son are to test his hearing, vision, psychological tests and skills test (vocabulary, speech development, cognitive development etc.). It’s very possible that your son has some kind of problem where he finds a new environment too stimulating and difficult to handle. You need to check it out – too many people these days immediately diagnose an ADD/ADHD problem & Ritalin as a cure without really knowing what they are talking about. Good Luck Heidi

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        Mother Henrietta Hickey, my spiritual guide, would suggest spanking the boy when he misbehaves, but I don’t agree.         The child needs a pursuit into which he can safely — and constructively — channel his energies.  Do you have a big yard he can play in?  Can he move miniature mountains with a Tonka truck and build houses out of styrofoam.  His energies are all pent up and he releases them when he gets a chance.  Find a way to harness those energies.  Have you given him household chores?  Does he keep his room clean?  Are you perhaps taking him somewhere he doesn’t want to go?  Be sure you take him somewhere where he can have a good time.         Avoid Ritalin — watch that spelling, dad — if you can.  It may not turn your son into a zombie, but it can make him chemically dependent.         Don’t let him know you "hate" going out with him.  Explain that good behavior will be rewarded, and follow through.  My mom and dad used to give me lollipops if I behaved in public, so I always did.         And there are trustworthy babysitters out there.  Find a girl who regularly attends a church or synagogue and who has good references. God bless you! Eulalia Meadows

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>I have a five year old boy, it seems to me that when we go out in public >he gets very hard to control and gets more out of control as time goes >on….

Public and private settings cause you more difficulty than a 5yo.  He can sense that you react more strongly then and will see new opportunities to test the limits.  If throwing a temper tantrum at home doesn’t work, it might work in a restaurant.   The flip side is there should be things he wants to do away from home. For instance my kids love to go play in a park with slides and swings even if they have similar equipment at home.  Sometimes it is the chance to see a friend or get an ice cream out.  Gymnastics, ballet, karate, boy scouts, team sports (soccor and baseball), and many more offer good opportunities to learn and have fun, but also require good public manners and a sense of how to interact with other people. If he cannot behave when you are doing "your" things like grocery shopping, then he should not get the priviledge of going to "his" activity.  There is a place for enlightened self-interest in helping kids learn self-control. We spent a while going to McDonalds and feeling sorry we went, sometimes even driving through to avoid displaying the bad behavior. Eventually by trying a "real" restaurant only once in a while, we got the idea across that this setting required better behavior.  We still consider waiting on our 6 as double the effort compared to 6 adults, so we try to be pleasant and leave a good tip. One thing that still gives us some problems is the idea that the parents are also required to behave well in public while coping with the screaming, demanding, and sometimes active distruction or stealing of their kids.  This is part of the reason we are likely to react differently than at home. Even when traveling, good public behavior can be tied to special priviledges such as time in the swimming pool or renting a movie. Father of 4, and still looking for the instruction manuals…

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My neighbor has a 6 year old daughter who is on Ritalin and because of the side-effects of that, is also on an anti-depressant. I think it’s so sad. She just acts like a normal kid to me, and I keep her some days so I know. Her mom yells at her and her sister (age4) all the time and doesn’t really talk to the 6 year old without being really loud and fussing. Alot of times, kids are put on meds because the parent pushes and pushes a doctor to "do something about this kid". I think you should go by what your heart feels- he actually sounds normal to me. Both my girls are pretty wild and pitch fits when we go out sometimes. Marie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a five year old boy, it seems to me that when we go out in public > he gets very hard to control and gets more out of control as time goes > on. I suppose he is hyper active, but I dont know what to do. His > preschool teacher sugested riddlin, but i am apposed to givig him drugs > and turn him into a mindless zombie. >First of all, teachers should not be suggesting what drugs he can use.  The >teacher could direct you to where he can get tested.  My son’s school has a >child psychologist that can be called in and was for him. Also speech >therapist that can evaluate your son would be good.  Does he have any kind >of speech delay? Or is his speech behind the other kids in his class?  My >son was not diagnosed as attention deficit disorder but was diagnosed with a >language learning disorder.  Ask your school if they can direct you where to >get help. > I know he is just a little boy with > lots of energy but I hate going out in public with him, or go out to eat > with him there as he most times ruins the evening. And of corse trying > to find a trustworthy babysitter is like trying to find a trustworthy > president. >I know how you feel.  We could not take our son anywhere without the looking >forward to the temper tantrum, so we did not go out because of a lack of >babysitters.  Is he like this all the time or just when you go out? What I >did to finally get rid of my son’s tantrums was sit him down and tell him >that they were no longer acceptable.  If he had a tantrum, I would not >discipline until he was done the tantrum.   Discipline would be taking away >TV time, tapes that he wanted,  no going to the park.  Whatever would be >appropriate at that time.  If we were at the park and he had a tantrum,  he >was told that we would not go the next time he wanted to go to the park. >Do not get angry when he is having his tantrum, it only feeds into the >tantrum.  Put him in his room, or if you are out in your car, or in a nearby >washroom.  Like I stated before, do not discipline him when he is in the >middle of his tantrum,  it only makes it worse.  Also, I would like to point >out, try to use corporal punishment, it is not very effective.  Wait until >the fit is over and then explain what his punishment will be and that until >he agrees to not throwing a fit, you won’t be taking him to the park or to >the store.But above all you should go to your school, or your doctor and >have him tested to see if there is anything that is physically wrong.  It >might save you alot of grief. >Good Luck >Jennifer

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