Question:
I have a question for you. You seem to be such an expert on child development and parenting, what kind of training have you had? How many children do you have? HOw long have you been a parent? I feel sorry for your kids because MOST of your parenting advice is totally wrong. Your kids must be running your life, trashing your house and emberassing you in public if you folllow the advice you give others on here. Rosemarie Wiseman Family Life Educator/Child Development Specialist Las Cruces, New Mexico
Response:
> ; I think that you could make it hard or easy on YOURSELF. A two year old is > ;just a baby who can walk. They’re not just unusually small versions of older > ;kids. > This is probably one of the hardest issues we’ve faced to date, > differentiating between the two models of viewing our oldest son. > Thank you for putting it in a way that makes it more clearly evident! > Although, I now can’t get the picture of my 2 1/2 year old saying, > "Da, can I take the car for ride?" =)
But a two-year-old _isn’t_ just a baby who can walk, nor a smaller version of an older kid. A two-year-old can have all kinds of levels going on simultaneously–baby emotions along with older-kid perceptions that can be astonishing, and on top of that, an overwhelming urge to be bigger. And a 25-month-old is a completely different thing from a 35-month-old, even though they’re both "2." Sometimes you can treat them as babies, but if you try to do it when they’re thinking of themselves as "big kids," you do so at your peril. The advantage is that when they’re in "big kid" mode, you can often get them to do something by positioning it as "what big kids do." It’s a fascinating age, but not comparable to any other age. It’s coming to an end around our house in a few weeks, and while it’s had its ups and downs, overall I’ve really enjoyed it.
Response:
;Folks, I am absolutely LOVING the feedback! The learning curve for ;parenting is SO painful. I can’t help but feel that each thing I do ;will carry life long ramifications (sp?) and therefore, MUST be done ;perfectly the first time. That Jake doesn’t come to me when I ask is ;just one manifestation of the larger issue: Teaching my child to ;respect me and my requests. This, among other parenting challenges, ;really troubles me. I wouldn’t call it a learning curve so much as a learning sheer cliff face… =) ;Here’s a question for those who want to reassure me that this is just a ;phase: Does it matter, then, how I deal with it during the phase? Will ;there be unsavory and lingering side effects of some approaches? How ;easy/hard will it be to nuture compliance after the phase passes? I’d say so. If you’re not firm, then you’ll set a bad precedence. However, you need to balance that with understanding of the age your child’s in. If s/he doesn’t come when you ask, go and collect the child rather than turning a battle out of it. Mise le meas, | Darryl L. Pierce Alt.Atheism Member #1142, Death ‘Piper of the BAAWA | | Visit me @ http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/1335/ | | Unsolicited email to this address is acceptance of a $500 per day | | storage expense to be paid within 30 days of the sending of the email. |
Response:
; I think that you could make it hard or easy on YOURSELF. A two year old is ;just a baby who can walk. They’re not just unusually small versions of older ;kids. This is probably one of the hardest issues we’ve faced to date, differentiating between the two models of viewing our oldest son. Thank you for putting it in a way that makes it more clearly evident! Although, I now can’t get the picture of my 2 1/2 year old saying, "Da, can I take the car for ride?" =) Mise le meas, | Darryl L. Pierce Alt.Atheism Member #1142, Death ‘Piper of the BAAWA | | Visit me @ http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/1335/ | | Unsolicited email to this address is acceptance of a $500 per day | | storage expense to be paid within 30 days of the sending of the email. |
Response:
;learning that it is better to cooperate. I started the counting thing ;’1…2…" Thank goodness I have NEVER had to get to 3 because I do not A funny thing my oldest son does, he’ll actually start counting with me when I do that. It’s infuriating, but sweet at the same time… =) Mise le meas, | Darryl L. Pierce Alt.Atheism Member #1142, Death ‘Piper of the BAAWA | | Visit me @ http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/1335/ | | Unsolicited email to this address is acceptance of a $500 per day | | storage expense to be paid within 30 days of the sending of the email. |
Response:
I know more about children > than most people, and less than most parents, but at least I have some > kind of factual basis for my opinions.
What is this supposed to mean? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Since your advice is not from experience, can you tell me which > > developmental psychology textbooks you get your information from, or at > > least cite some kind of source material? > I know more about children > than most people, and less than most parents, but at least I have some > kind of factual basis for my opinions. > Brian, don’t be an officious gink!! I’m the mother of three, and yes, two > year olds rebelling and generally not wanting to do what they are told IS a > developmental phase, and yes, it does pass off. > Hey, all I’m saying is put up or shut up. > — Brian
Ream Kalamazoo, Michigan
Response:
;
;>Be careful, ’cause it could backfire later when ;>the reward becomes a requirement. ; ; ; I don’t know about you, but I never do anything unless there’s a reward in ;it for me. See what I mean. =) Mise le meas, | Darryl L. Pierce Alt.Atheism Member #1142, Death ‘Piper of the BAAWA | | Visit me @ http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/1335/ | | Unsolicited email to this address is acceptance of a $500 per day | | storage expense to be paid within 30 days of the sending of the email. |
Response:
> >Be careful, ’cause it could backfire later when >the reward becomes a requirement. > I don’t know about you, but I never do anything unless there’s a reward in > it for me.
A good way to devalue the real rewards in life — love, affection, intellectual curiosity etc is to pay for behavior that normally leads to those things with beads and trinkets.
Response:
>need to use words once — and if he doesn’t respond immediately get up >and physically correct him. The biggest mistake parents make is to >’jawbone’ at kids and teach them to ignore Mom and Dad. If he goes >for the electrical cord, you can say ‘no’ — then you get up and physically >guide him away. If necessary put him physically into a place where he >can’t get to the cord. [he is a bit young for formal time out -- but >the principle is similar] If he doesn’t come when called — then >playtime is over NOW, not after 15 minutes of plaintive weedling on >your part. If he runs away in public, then he goes into the stroller, >or onto the leash, or is picked up and taken home. If he throws food, >then dinner is over until the next regularly scheduled snack time.
This is 100% right, but for the wrong reason. You’re right- tell the kid once, then get off your hiny and see to it that you enforce your word. NOT because you’re going to "teach" the toddler to come to you dependably, nor any other trick. That’s just not going to happen dependably for at least another year. >Kids learn that you mean business and if you are firm and always follow >through when he is a toddler — you don’t have to deal with the more >difficult disobedience that is habitual with many older kids. >So yes, the behavior is normal and doesn’t suggest that anything is >wrong with the child. But no, it can’t be ‘waited out’ — [of course >you try to head it off - distract - prevent etc] If you let him >behave in a disobedient manner, you are training him to treat you >disrespectfully — and we have all observed enough of that in kids from
It’s a matter of the ADULT acting in a more disciplined manner. That is, stop jawboning, and move the toddler as required.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Folks, I am absolutely LOVING the feedback! The learning curve for > parenting is SO painful. I can’t help but feel that each thing I do > will carry life long ramifications (sp?) and therefore, MUST be done > perfectly the first time. That Jake doesn’t come to me when I ask is > just one manifestation of the larger issue: Teaching my child to > respect me and my requests. This, among other parenting challenges, > really troubles me. > Here’s a question for those who want to reassure me that this is just a > phase: Does it matter, then, how I deal with it during the phase? Will > there be unsavory and lingering side effects of some approaches? How > easy/hard will it be to nuture compliance after the phase passes? > Thanks again, all, for your comments. I need this. > Peace, > -A
Never dismiss misbehavior as ‘just a phase’. There is a difference between understanding such behavior [and the terrible twos represent an important developmental stage -- so one should welcome them in a sense] and allowing such misbehavior as disrepectful language or ignoring Mom’s reasonable commands to continue. It is extraordinarily important how you react to behavior like running away when you call him to you, or throwing food, or climbing on something dangerous that you have made off limits or whatever. You need to use words once — and if he doesn’t respond immediately get up and physically correct him. The biggest mistake parents make is to ‘jawbone’ at kids and teach them to ignore Mom and Dad. If he goes for the electrical cord, you can say ‘no’ — then you get up and physically guide him away. If necessary put him physically into a place where he can’t get to the cord. [he is a bit young for formal time out -- but the principle is similar] If he doesn’t come when called — then playtime is over NOW, not after 15 minutes of plaintive weedling on your part. If he runs away in public, then he goes into the stroller, or onto the leash, or is picked up and taken home. If he throws food, then dinner is over until the next regularly scheduled snack time. Kids learn that you mean business and if you are firm and always follow through when he is a toddler — you don’t have to deal with the more difficult disobedience that is habitual with many older kids. So yes, the behavior is normal and doesn’t suggest that anything is wrong with the child. But no, it can’t be ‘waited out’ — [of course you try to head it off - distract - prevent etc] If you let him behave in a disobedient manner, you are training him to treat you disrespectfully — and we have all observed enough of that in kids from 3-20 to believe that it naturally cures itself.
Response:
We went through the same type of thing with our daughter. She will be 3 in January and she is starting to "grow out of it" I think she is learning that it is better to cooperate. I started the counting thing ‘1…2…" Thank goodness I have NEVER had to get to 3 because I do not know what 3 means! I think they may find it to be like a game and Virginia has "learned" that when I begin counting the game is over. I also felt that I could do something wrong that would have life time ramifications. But a stepson and newborn later I have realized that there are lots of factors beyond our control that will influence our children. I have recently become less stressed and as a result my kids seem happier!! Trust your instincts!! Good Luck GF
Response:
>Be careful, ’cause it could backfire later when >the reward becomes a requirement.
I don’t know about you, but I never do anything unless there’s a reward in it for me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
>Folks, I am absolutely LOVING the feedback! The learning curve for >parenting is SO painful. I can’t help but feel that each thing I do >will carry life long ramifications (sp?) and therefore, MUST be done >perfectly the first time.
Nobody’s perfect. Jake sounds like a normal, outgoing toddler. That Jake doesn’t come to me when I ask is >just one manifestation of the larger issue: Teaching my child to >respect me and my requests.
There is no reason to think that this will be a problem. All two year olds behave as your son does now… unless they’re sick, or they’ve been abused or something. > This, among other parenting challenges, >really troubles me.
You will be able to deal with it when the time comes. >Here’s a question for those who want to reassure me that this is just a >phase: Does it matter, then, how I deal with it during the phase?
Yeah, don’t take it to heart. Pick him up and move him when you have to do so. Don’t expect things of him beyond the ability of a two year old. Will >there be unsavory and lingering side effects of some approaches?
I think that you could make it hard or easy on YOURSELF. A two year old is just a baby who can walk. They’re not just unusually small versions of older kids. How >easy/hard will it be to nuture compliance after the phase passes?
Who is to say? If it’s important to you, and you’re success oriented, you will attain your goals. >Thanks again, all, for your comments. I need this. >Peace,
Response:
> > Since your advice is not from experience, can you tell me which > developmental psychology textbooks you get your information from, or at > least cite some kind of source material? > Brian, don’t be an officious gink!! I’m the mother of three, and yes, two > year olds rebelling and generally not wanting to do what they are told IS a > developmental phase, and yes, it does pass off.
Hey, all I’m saying is put up or shut up. I know more about children than most people, and less than most parents, but at least I have some kind of factual basis for my opinions. — Brian Ream Kalamazoo, Michigan
Response:
Folks, I am absolutely LOVING the feedback! The learning curve for parenting is SO painful. I can’t help but feel that each thing I do will carry life long ramifications (sp?) and therefore, MUST be done perfectly the first time. That Jake doesn’t come to me when I ask is just one manifestation of the larger issue: Teaching my child to respect me and my requests. This, among other parenting challenges, really troubles me. Here’s a question for those who want to reassure me that this is just a phase: Does it matter, then, how I deal with it during the phase? Will there be unsavory and lingering side effects of some approaches? How easy/hard will it be to nuture compliance after the phase passes? Thanks again, all, for your comments. I need this. Peace, -A
Response:
Elaine Gallegos wrote > > I don’t know about you, but I never do anything unless there’s a reward in >it for me.
Well, I guess that explains why you don’t have kids! Teresa P.
Response:
;> Short of a shock collar, I have no ;> ideas. Right now I a) bribe him by getting something he wants, b) scare ;> him by telling him I’m leaving or c) the chase is on! I am not ;> comfortable with any of these. ; ; The bribery sounds good. Nobody gets hurt. What is your problem with bribing ;him? With our son, we did the bribery thing for a while, including when going to the store, food shopping, etc. However, now when we go out, Caleb wants to know where his toy is when we get home, even if we didn’t get him one. Be careful, ’cause it could backfire later when the reward becomes a requirement. Mise le meas, | Darryl L. Pierce Alt.Atheism Member #1142, Death ‘Piper of the BAAWA | | Visit me @ http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/1335/ | | Unsolicited email to this address is acceptance of a $500 per day | | storage expense to be paid within 30 days of the sending of the email. |
Response:
>Brian, don’t be an officious gink!!
Why? Is there some better sort of gink to be? — Do not underestimate your abilities. That is your boss’s job. It is your job to find ways around your boss’s roadblocks.
Response:
This is a great idea. The thing about two year olds is, you can’t really teach them to do anything they don’t want to do, because what they want to do changes on a minute by minute basis. What a two year old wants in general, however, is power. This is good ( a pain in the rear, I grant you, but still…). It is at this time when kids learn that they are either capable or not capable. Erickson called it autonomy vs shame and doubt. Toddlers need to be allowed whenever possible, to do things for themselves. Obviously, if you are late, or the child is doing something dangerous, the parent needs to intervene. But any time you can give a child a choice, you are teaching her 1. that she has choices, 2. that she is in charge of her own behavior and 3. that you trust her ability to make a choice. I believe this early training becomes especially important when children are older, because we can’t be there every minute to stop them from making lousy choices. The second part of the equation is equally important, however. This is where parents either give consequences (very sparingly and NON punitively) or allow a child to experience the consequences of her behavior. If the child will not come to you, you have to go to the child. If you need to leave a place, you say, We need to go now, would you like to walk or be carried? Then, if the child does not come with, you pick her up (kindly! It will absolutely backfire if you are angry) and say, I see you prefer to be carried. Period! A lot of what drives toddler-parent problems is the power struggle. I have what I call my Captain Picard rule (DO NOT) Engage! This is very difficult, and we all fall into the power struggle trap on occasion. The trick is to disengage as soon as you realize what is happening. Okay, I ‘m going on and on, but I do speak from experience. The difference between my oldest ( parented way more authoritarian) and youngest authoritative parenting) is amazing. The younger is by far the happier and less stressed of the two kids. This is certainly partly due to personality, but early learning was a big factor. Hope this helps, Natalie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am looking for ANY ideas on how to get my son (25 months old) to come > to me even when he doesn’t want to. Short of a shock collar, I have no > ideas. Right now I a) bribe him by getting something he wants, b) scare > him by telling him I’m leaving or c) the chase is on! I am not > comfortable with any of these…REALLY uncomfortable with c) as I’m due > in a couple of months. I feel as if I have to manipulate him to get him > to come to me. I would rather just teach him to obey my requests. Is > this a laughable persuit at his age and should wait until he is more > mature? … or is there something I can be doing? >My 27 month old son HATES it when I do something that he is completely >capable of doing, eg. putting him into his car seat, switching off a >light switch that he can reach. So when he’s slow to do something, like >get into the car seat, I say "Are you going to get in now, or do you >want me to help you?" He hops right in there. If not, then I put him in >and explain (amid the cries of "Nate do it myself!") that if he can’t do >it when I ask him, then I have to help him do it. It has also worked for >the situation that you are in with just coming over to you. I have that >problem when I am sitting on the floor and want to change his diaper. >Sometimes he won’t come over until I threaten to come and get him. He >knows he can walk (!) so the humiliation of my having to come and get >him is too much to stand. He grumbles, but he comes. >Good luck. >Ruth
Response:
> I am looking for ANY ideas on how to get my son (25 months old) to come > to me even when he doesn’t want to. Short of a shock collar, I have no > ideas. Right now I a) bribe him by getting something he wants, b) scare > him by telling him I’m leaving or c) the chase is on! I am not > comfortable with any of these…REALLY uncomfortable with c) as I’m due > in a couple of months. I feel as if I have to manipulate him to get him > to come to me. I would rather just teach him to obey my requests. Is > this a laughable persuit at his age and should wait until he is more > mature? … or is there something I can be doing?
No nonsense helps. If he doesn’t come on the first request, then create a consequence. If you are outside, he goes in and doesn’t get to play outside the rest of the day. If you are inside, he doesn’t get to watch Barney or whatever. Kids generally do what we expect them to do and enforce matter of factly without fail. Bribing and whining, and cajoling is teaching him to manipulate you. A swat [which I think is unnecessary ] would be better than a bribe if you want to establish your parental authority. If he is old enough to ‘run’ away when asked to come, he is old enough to understand that he must come and there are consequences if he doesn’t
Response:
> I’m not aware of two year olds ever doing anything willingly that they don’t > want to do. > The bribery sounds good. Nobody gets hurt. What is your problem with bribing > him? > Nothing that I have ever heard that consistantly works. Don’t put him down > in a place where he can get completely loose. This stage will pass inside of > a year.
Since your advice is not from experience, can you tell me which developmental psychology textbooks you get your information from, or at least cite some kind of source material? — Brian Ream Kalamazoo, Michigan
Response:
> Since your advice is not from experience, can you tell me which > developmental psychology textbooks you get your information from, or at > least cite some kind of source material?
Brian, don’t be an officious gink!! I’m the mother of three, and yes, two year olds rebelling and generally not wanting to do what they are told IS a developmental phase, and yes, it does pass off. My kids are currently almost 8, almost 5 and 10 months of age, and I actually resorted to using a leash on the older two when they were toddlers. We lived in a very busy inner city neighbourhood with a lot of traffic (and some very unsavory drunks and bums living down local alley ways), and the walk to and from the park got to be a nightmare when they each passed through this phase. Not coming when they were called, running away from Mom (both of them thought this was pretty funny) etc. Most parents at least TRY bribery – even saying, if you stay with Mommy on the way home, we can have a nice cookie when we get there…is bribery. The thing is that 2 year olds are not long on reasoning so lengthy explanations of WHY they shouldn’t run away or should come when they are called go in one little ear and out the other without encountering any neurons. So, your choices are pretty much limited to yelling, bribing, chasing them, or physical restraint. They also have a short memory, so a time out 1/2 hour after the fact (i.e. after you got home from the park) doesn’t connect the action and the reaction for them.
Response:
> I am looking for ANY ideas on how to get my son (25 months old) to come > to me even when he doesn’t want to.
I’m not aware of two year olds ever doing anything willingly that they don’t want to do. > Short of a shock collar, I have no > ideas. Right now I a) bribe him by getting something he wants, b) scare > him by telling him I’m leaving or c) the chase is on! I am not > comfortable with any of these.
The bribery sounds good. Nobody gets hurt. What is your problem with bribing him? ..REALLY uncomfortable with c) as I’m due > in a couple of months. I feel as if I have to manipulate him to get him > to come to me. I would rather just teach him to obey my requests. Is > this a laughable persuit at his age and should wait until he is more > mature? … or is there something I can be doing?
Nothing that I have ever heard that consistantly works. Don’t put him down in a place where he can get completely loose. This stage will pass inside of a year. — Elaine Gallegos
Response:
> I am looking for ANY ideas on how to get my son (25 months old) to come > to me even when he doesn’t want to. Short of a shock collar, I have no > ideas. Right now I a) bribe him by getting something he wants, b) scare > him by telling him I’m leaving or c) the chase is on! I am not > comfortable with any of these…REALLY uncomfortable with c) as I’m due > in a couple of months. I feel as if I have to manipulate him to get him > to come to me. I would rather just teach him to obey my requests. Is > this a laughable persuit at his age and should wait until he is more > mature? … or is there something I can be doing?
My 27 month old son HATES it when I do something that he is completely capable of doing, eg. putting him into his car seat, switching off a light switch that he can reach. So when he’s slow to do something, like get into the car seat, I say "Are you going to get in now, or do you want me to help you?" He hops right in there. If not, then I put him in and explain (amid the cries of "Nate do it myself!") that if he can’t do it when I ask him, then I have to help him do it. It has also worked for the situation that you are in with just coming over to you. I have that problem when I am sitting on the floor and want to change his diaper. Sometimes he won’t come over until I threaten to come and get him. He knows he can walk (!) so the humiliation of my having to come and get him is too much to stand. He grumbles, but he comes. Good luck. Ruth
Response:
I am looking for ANY ideas on how to get my son (25 months old) to come to me even when he doesn’t want to. Short of a shock collar, I have no ideas. Right now I a) bribe him by getting something he wants, b) scare him by telling him I’m leaving or c) the chase is on! I am not comfortable with any of these…REALLY uncomfortable with c) as I’m due in a couple of months. I feel as if I have to manipulate him to get him to come to me. I would rather just teach him to obey my requests. Is this a laughable persuit at his age and should wait until he is more mature? … or is there something I can be doing?
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