Question:
This train of thought pulled out of the station when the discussion was nannies. Along those lines I wrote the message you quoted, giving the example of how people wouldn’t let a stranger have their car for one entire day, but hand over their children so they can get on with their life. The interest is usually there when the children are born, young and cute and all, but as they age the trend in this country is for the parents to get busy with other things that become more important than raising these children. As they get busy they farm out the children to strangers and let them finish the job for them. Just a shame, that’s all. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Reading over this ng and others (misc.kids etc.), I > see loads of parents who apparently spend much time > agonizing over the best way to feed, clothe, bathe, > socialize, protect, educate, etc. their children. > They all seem very concerned and dedicated, and I really > don’t see where you are getting the idea that they > birth them and then give up interest in them to > pursue ego-inflating or fun interests? > Enid
Response:
Uh, I think most nanies are hired for infants and toddlers, they are still, um, cute, then. Enid – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->This train of thought pulled out of the station when the discussion was >nannies. Along those lines I wrote the message you quoted, giving the >example of how people wouldn’t let a stranger have their car for one >entire day, but hand over their children so they can get on with their >life. >The interest is usually there when the children are born, young and cute >and all, but as they age the trend in this country is for the parents to >get busy with other things that become more important than raising these >children. As they get busy they farm out the children to strangers and >let them finish the job for them. >Just a shame, that’s all. > Reading over this ng and others (misc.kids etc.), I > see loads of parents who apparently spend much time > agonizing over the best way to feed, clothe, bathe, > socialize, protect, educate, etc. their children. > They all seem very concerned and dedicated, and I really > don’t see where you are getting the idea that they > birth them and then give up interest in them to > pursue ego-inflating or fun interests? > Enid
Response:
> [snip earth2us's comparison of hiring a nanny to handing your kids to > a stranger] > Mostly you see people with the great > idea to have children, they push out a few and pay a great deal of > attention to them while they are adorable little pups but the novelty > wears off and the parents get interested in other things that are more > ego inflating or fun and then it’s time to find someone else to raise > those kids.
I seem to remember reading that you, "earthmom", work from home. You wouldn’t by chance be "interested in other things that are more ego inflating or fun" would you?
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> [snip earth2us's comparison of hiring a nanny to handing your kids to > a stranger] > Mostly you see people with the great > idea to have children, they push out a few and pay a great deal of > attention to them while they are adorable little pups but the novelty > wears off and the parents get interested in other things that are more > ego inflating or fun and then it’s time to find someone else to raise > those kids. > I seem to remember reading that you, "earthmom", work from > home. You wouldn’t by chance be "interested in other things > that are more ego inflating or fun" would you?
Actually no, but thanks for asking. I work approx. 6 hours per day from home. I do industrial sewing mostly but also some graphics for the local college. Two days a week I teach at the local college. My children are homeschooled, and were homebirthed. Their father is also working from home and we alternate on who is schooling, who is working, etc. Alot of my work is done after the kids are asleep or before they wake up. The kids are involved in things several times per week like ballet class, homeschool theater group, puppet club, 4-H. Their father and I take turns taking them to these groups and the one who stays home works during that time. Thanks again for asking! Always happy to share. Earthmom
Response:
>Check out "CHild Care Solutions; The Concerned Parents Guide to Selecting >Safe, Quality Child Care." >It is available From Tsm Publishing Group, 30755 Barrington Ave, Madison >Heights, MI 48071 (810 588-0754
Thanks for your input. I’ll check it out. I’m hoping to find someone soon; our current live out nanny will be leaving in a few weeks. — John McDonnell Researcher’s Toolkit http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/6100 Customer Service Page http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/6100/cs.htm
Response:
Check out "CHild Care Solutions; The Concerned Parents Guide to Selecting Safe, Quality Child Care." It is available From Tsm Publishing Group, 30755 Barrington Ave, Madison Heights, MI 48071 (810 588-0754
Response:
> I apologize to anyone in this group who doesn’t like > nannies, but there are some of us who have to use them.
True, there are people who depend on nannies, or babysitters, or daycare workers, or nurses, to make it possible to live. Single parents, people who are taking full time care of elderly and sick parents, etc. However in your case that isn’t the case. To have both parents working in the home, in the basement, and still hire a full time live in nanny is just irresponsible. You are *home*, as a freelancer you are able to set your schedules around each others and around your childrens schedules, yet you choose to leave their raising up to a stranger who lives in your home and serves the function that you and your wife should be serving. This just befuddles me, but to each his own. It’s your choice to do whatever you want, but please don’t make it sound to this group as if you are being forced to have a nanny out of dire necessity! I would wager it’s more interesting/stimulating/fun to be in your office sanctuary rather than dealing with with your children. True, sometimes it is, but there’s a responsibility issue here. Ask yourself what you are teaching those children and where they see themselves on your list of priorities. Earthmom
Response:
Just a thought, I know people who wouldn’t give $10 to a stranger to hold, but willingly hand over their children. Ask yourself, would you give a stranger your car for the day? There was a case in Oregon a couple of years ago of kidnapping – seems a woman in a welfare office there handed her baby to a stranger to watch while she got her welfare check. The stranger left with the baby. But the woman had her check, so I guess all was not lost. :( That’s pretty extreme, I know. Mostly you see people with the great idea to have children, they push out a few and pay a great deal of attention to them while they are adorable little pups but the novelty wears off and the parents get interested in other things that are more ego inflating or fun and then it’s time to find someone else to raise those kids. The Humane Society has the right idea with their spay and neutering campaign! We don’t "put to sleep" all the extra unwanted children, we just farm them off and make them someone else’s responsibility. Earthmom
Response:
Reading over this ng and others (misc.kids etc.), I see loads of parents who apparently spend much time agonizing over the best way to feed, clothe, bathe, socialize, protect, educate, etc. their children. They all seem very concerned and dedicated, and I really don’t see where you are getting the idea that they birth them and then give up interest in them to pursue ego-inflating or fun interests? Enid – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Just a thought, >I know people who wouldn’t give $10 to a stranger to hold, but willingly >hand over their children. Ask yourself, would you give a stranger your >car for the day? >There was a case in Oregon a couple of years ago of kidnapping – seems a >woman in a welfare office there handed her baby to a stranger to watch >while she got her welfare check. The stranger left with the baby. But >the woman had her check, so I guess all was not lost. :( >That’s pretty extreme, I know. Mostly you see people with the great >idea to have children, they push out a few and pay a great deal of >attention to them while they are adorable little pups but the novelty >wears off and the parents get interested in other things that are more >ego inflating or fun and then it’s time to find someone else to raise >those kids. >The Humane Society has the right idea with their spay and neutering >campaign! We don’t "put to sleep" all the extra unwanted children, we >just farm them off and make them someone else’s responsibility. >Earthmom
Response:
Earth Mother – What a lot of nerve you have – People write to this group for realistic advise on important issues – how could you possibly judge someone from a four line posting? Responses like your make me think about looking for another group – Life is too short and parents ( all types!!) work too hard to hav to deal with comments like yours. Perhaps next time you will think before you write. A working mom with a nanny & a well adjusted happy child!!
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >(John McDonnell ) writes: >Thank you for your words of support. I have just had the unpleasant >experience of getting flamed by this woman by e-mail, because she >doesn’t agree with the way I’m raising my children. I’m new to this >group, but if this is the kind of response you get when somebody makes >a simple request for information, I won’t be sticking around long. It >must be nice to have such a simple view of the world that you can sit >in judgment on someone’s parenting based on one short post to a USENET >newsgroup. I apologize to anyone in this group who doesn’t like >nannies, but there are some of us who have to use them. >– >John McDonnell >John, > No problem. Don’t get turned off from the newsgroup experience by >one bad e-mail. I monitor quite a few and this one has the fewest flames >I have seen. The information exchanged here is (in the majority of cases) >very good and flames are fairly few and far between. I think a problem >may have been in the phrase ‘nanny.’ (I’m not trying to speak for Earth- >mom, just putting forth a theory on what caused the response.) In alot >of cases, people think a nanny is someone who lives in the house, >takes care of the child/children the majority of the time, bringing them >in to see their parents for a goodnight kiss or a few minutes at a time. >(And, if that’s the way someone wants to have it, that’s THEIR business, >none of mine.) But, I guess I saw the term ‘nanny’ to mean an in-home >daycare provider. I guess it could mean anything in-between. Or even >something different. > Anyway, I hope you have been able to find what you are looking >for. (I didn’t reply to the original post because, when I needed daycare, >I was always in the situation to have people recommended to me by >people I trusted, so I never had to conduct a cold search.) >Tracey
Nice response Tracey. I couldn’t have said it better. John – I wish I could be of some help. I have a woman come in and care for my kids at our house, but we never had to search for someone. She was a caregiver at our kids Daycare (which was a mild disaster) and she approached us about taking care of our kids because she knew we were unhappy with our situation and she did not enjoy the place either. She brings her daughter with her (same age as my youngest) and it has been a wonderful situation for nearly a year now. I just wanted to point out that having a caregiver with a child of their own can work out nicely–lets us pay her a little below the going rate and gives our children another child to play with.
Response:
<<My wife and I are going to be looking for a nanny soon, because the one we have is leaving>> I can only give you advice at this point from the Nanny’s prospective. I was a Nanny for 12 years. 4 of which were with one family. I am now expecting my first. Never pay less than minimum wage. Even for a college student or other ‘non-professional’ nanny. You get what you pay for. Call around to agencies, explain what you are looking for and they will usually give you a price range for a professional nanny (it varies with the area of the country you are in.) As a live out nanny I have recieved 12 hour for 50 hours weeks, and as a live in nanny I have recieved 500 a week for the same. (NorthEast) In San Diego I was paid 300 a week, in addition I had a seperate cottage for a 35 hour week. Some really good nannies recieve as little as 200 a week live in, and 350 live out. If you can’t afford to pay the salary look into other options – like sharing a nanny – having another family go in with you to hire someone to take care of both families! Hire someone with training, and with checkable references. Reference that are not checkable are no good. If you are paying a lower wage, make sure you build in the 100$ handshakes. (Or 50 or 20!) They are a great incentive for the nanny to continue to do a good job. She never knows when she might get one (Pavlovs dog theory) Build in other incentives, like a day of luxury (spa pass, or hair dressing certificate or manicure) for things really well done or when she has gone out of her way to help. In the interview stage, ask really hard knowledge questions and value laden questions. Like: What would you do if you saw my child masturbating? My child is running a fever – how many asprin do you give her? (YOU NEVER GIVE ASPRIN TO A CHILD) If she isn’t aware of basic child care practices and theories, then do not hire her! You will get to know how she works if you can ask questions that are hard to answer and she has to think about. Set your video camera up to watch how she interacts with the child. Hire a company like baby watch or someone who will actually come in and set up – do it at least for a few days. Do it again a few months down the road if wverything is going great the first time. (I was illegally taped in my living quarters – make SURE that they are not in that area!!!) One family set up cameras in each area of the house! All you really need is to set up in the playroom or living room. Write up a written agreement of the terms – don’t forget to give her side too – one sided contracts are no fun. Include duties and pay rates and hours. Hope this helps. If you have any ?’s feel free to e-m The opinions expressed in the proceeding may not be my own, and I take no responsibilty whatsoever for what starts in my brain, goes into the computer, and eventually hits the newsgroup. Sometimes even I am surprised by what I write!
Response:
(John McDonnell ) writes: >Thank you for your words of support. I have just had the unpleasant >experience of getting flamed by this woman by e-mail, because she >doesn’t agree with the way I’m raising my children. I’m new to this >group, but if this is the kind of response you get when somebody makes >a simple request for information, I won’t be sticking around long. It >must be nice to have such a simple view of the world that you can sit >in judgment on someone’s parenting based on one short post to a USENET >newsgroup. I apologize to anyone in this group who doesn’t like >nannies, but there are some of us who have to use them. >– >John McDonnell
John, No problem. Don’t get turned off from the newsgroup experience by one bad e-mail. I monitor quite a few and this one has the fewest flames I have seen. The information exchanged here is (in the majority of cases) very good and flames are fairly few and far between. I think a problem may have been in the phrase ‘nanny.’ (I’m not trying to speak for Earth- mom, just putting forth a theory on what caused the response.) In alot of cases, people think a nanny is someone who lives in the house, takes care of the child/children the majority of the time, bringing them in to see their parents for a goodnight kiss or a few minutes at a time. (And, if that’s the way someone wants to have it, that’s THEIR business, none of mine.) But, I guess I saw the term ‘nanny’ to mean an in-home daycare provider. I guess it could mean anything in-between. Or even something different. Anyway, I hope you have been able to find what you are looking for. (I didn’t reply to the original post because, when I needed daycare, I was always in the situation to have people recommended to me by people I trusted, so I never had to conduct a cold search.) Tracey
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >John, > think a problem >may have been in the phrase ‘nanny.’ (I’m not trying to speak for Earth- >mom, just putting forth a theory on what caused the response.) In alot >of cases, people think a nanny is someone who lives in the house, >takes care of the child/children the majority of the time, bringing them >in to see their parents for a goodnight kiss or a few minutes at a time. >(And, if that’s the way someone wants to have it, that’s THEIR business, >none of mine.) But, I guess I saw the term ‘nanny’ to mean an in-home >daycare provider. I guess it could mean anything in-between. Or even >something different. > Anyway, I hope you have been able to find what you are looking >for. (I didn’t reply to the original post because, when I needed daycare, >I was always in the situation to have people recommended to me by >people I trusted, so I never had to conduct a cold search.) >Tracey
Tracey, You’re right, I’m not looking for a live-in. I work out of my home and all I want is someone to come in and help out during the day. I’ve had a very good person for the last few years who’s leaving in six weeks, and I need to find a replacement. I would love to be in your situation and use someone that came personally recommended, but I haven’t been able to find anyone that way. I got one helpful response, and the aforementioned flame. I’m still open to any advice from people who are willing to share their insights with me. — John McDonnell Researcher’s Toolkit http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/6100 Customer Service Page http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/6100/cs.htm
Response:
Whoa!!! This is one nasty response to a very valid question. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi John, >Why in the world do you wish to hire a stranger to raise your children? >This seems to be the same thing as deciding to start your own retail >business (a store). You spend months/years finding investors, writing >business plans, borrowing money, planning, searching for the right >location, planning, dreaming, trying, failing, trying and finally it all >comes together! Your dream is a reality, you open your very own >store!!! And on the day of the grand opening you hand the keys to the >first stranger who walks down the street, ask them to take good care of >it for you, and you go off in search of a job at a convenience store. >All that except that your kids are so much more valuable than that >store. You’d never consider turning over the keys to your car to a >stranger. Why in the world bring these kids into the world and then >turn them over to a stranger to be their role model, their source of >information about the world, their teacher, protector, guardian, and >much much more. There is no price that you could ever pay to someone >that will motivate them to treat your children just like their own, and >no where close to what the children deserve to be treated like. They >need their parents. Where in the world is their mother??? >Your kids deserve better. >Earthmom > My wife and I are going to be looking for a nanny soon, because the > one we have is leaving. Can anyone give me any good tips — like, how > much to pay, where’s the best place to advertise, what kind of > background checking to do (and how to do it), are the nanny services > worth using, what kind of ground rules to set, etc. This would be a > live-out nanny for three kids (2 in school, one toddler). I’m always > looking for advice from people who’ve been through this. > — > John McDonnell > Researcher’s Toolkit http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/6100 > Customer Service Page http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/6100/cs.htm
Response:
My wife and I are going to be looking for a nanny soon, because the one we have is leaving. Can anyone give me any good tips — like, how much to pay, where’s the best place to advertise, what kind of background checking to do (and how to do it), are the nanny services worth using, what kind of ground rules to set, etc. This would be a live-out nanny for three kids (2 in school, one toddler). I’m always looking for advice from people who’ve been through this. — John McDonnell Researcher’s Toolkit http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/6100 Customer Service Page http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/6100/cs.htm
Response:
Hi John, Why in the world do you wish to hire a stranger to raise your children? This seems to be the same thing as deciding to start your own retail business (a store). You spend months/years finding investors, writing business plans, borrowing money, planning, searching for the right location, planning, dreaming, trying, failing, trying and finally it all comes together! Your dream is a reality, you open your very own store!!! And on the day of the grand opening you hand the keys to the first stranger who walks down the street, ask them to take good care of it for you, and you go off in search of a job at a convenience store. All that except that your kids are so much more valuable than that store. You’d never consider turning over the keys to your car to a stranger. Why in the world bring these kids into the world and then turn them over to a stranger to be their role model, their source of information about the world, their teacher, protector, guardian, and much much more. There is no price that you could ever pay to someone that will motivate them to treat your children just like their own, and no where close to what the children deserve to be treated like. They need their parents. Where in the world is their mother??? Your kids deserve better. Earthmom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My wife and I are going to be looking for a nanny soon, because the > one we have is leaving. Can anyone give me any good tips — like, how > much to pay, where’s the best place to advertise, what kind of > background checking to do (and how to do it), are the nanny services > worth using, what kind of ground rules to set, etc. This would be a > live-out nanny for three kids (2 in school, one toddler). I’m always > looking for advice from people who’ve been through this. > — > John McDonnell > Researcher’s Toolkit http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/6100 > Customer Service Page http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/6100/cs.htm
Response:
writes: > Where in the world is their mother???
Working to make sure they have a roof over their heads? Tracey BTW, I am a SAHM by choice (luckily, I had that option.) Some people don’t.
Response:
>writes: > Where in the world is their mother??? >Working to make sure they have a roof over their heads? >Tracey >BTW, I am a SAHM by choice (luckily, I had that option.) >Some people don’t.
Thank you for your words of support. I have just had the unpleasant experience of getting flamed by this woman by e-mail, because she doesn’t agree with the way I’m raising my children. I’m new to this group, but if this is the kind of response you get when somebody makes a simple request for information, I won’t be sticking around long. It must be nice to have such a simple view of the world that you can sit in judgment on someone’s parenting based on one short post to a USENET newsgroup. I apologize to anyone in this group who doesn’t like nannies, but there are some of us who have to use them. — John McDonnell Researcher’s Toolkit http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/6100 Customer Service Page http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/6100/cs.htm
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