Question:
Aula said: >areas/communities where >there is a larger >amount of discretionary income >floating around, that being a SAHM >would be >more supported and also more likely to >be encountered.
Well we’re military so there’s not much of that "discretionary income floating around" - lol. But being a SAHM is VERY common among our circle of friends. But I think it’s because a lot of military guys are old fashioned. He’s the breadwinner, she stays home and raises the children. I have plenty of support (there are so many family services on base) and don’t feel isolated. As for this thread compared to others, I didn’t find anyone being "defensive" at all. I thought people were just stating their experiences. People can think whatever they want about me. "I" know what I do and that’s all that matters. Later, Sophie mom to Charlotte (22 months) and Patrick (5 months)
Response:
Well said. Sarah Mom to Kalen (8) and Victoria (5 months) Worked the first 6 years and now is a grateful SAHM.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Gently poking in, expecting to get flamed for stating the obvious…..Those > who work at a paid job and come home to caring for a home, and especially > caring for children in the home, are actually working two jobs. This is a > potentially very stressful, demoralizing experience that continually forces > choices between work, home, children, husband that *can* leave one feeling > as though nothing is done well. As one becomes more experienced at this, > and at life in general, perhaps one develops the ability to let go of some > things so that they are no longer stressful, such as washing dishes once a > day instead of after very meal, or sitting down and playing with children > instead of vacuuming the rugs right now…. > In the on-going "discussion" about women who work in and outside the home > emotions run very high and I find that I may be susceptible to them as well. > But, we have all made choices based on beliefs and priorities that are not > quite just like every one else with whom we come in contact. This > discussion should not devolve into an argument where the participants are > essentially defending their choice. It should become instead a discussion > of how to deal with the difficulties that each of us faces, drawing on the > experiences of those who have made similar and different choices. > For the record, I work a 40 hour/week paid job, and spend the rest of my > time parenting, caring for my home and being a wife. I would love to be > able to stay at home with my son, not only because I have decided that one > should only have to work for 20 years and retire. I make daily decisions > about what to let go of. When I am home for a couple weeks on vacation, the > house is neater, cleaner, the yard gets more attention, and my son is not > constantly bombarding me for *my* attention. Yes, hubby is home with son > when I am at work. He gets plenty attention from a loving parent then. > But, he wants *my* attention when I am present. I am sure a lot of Dads of > SAHM’s experience the same thing. > I detest the position that our current society has placed me in where I find > that women who choose not to work [and can financially afford to make that > choice] are devalued. My sister was a SAHM for quite a few years until her > hubby became disabled. We have discussed this frequently. At the same time > I have to at least grudgingly value the society that pushed me off to > college where I got a degree that allowed me to access a field where I can > support my family now that my own hubby is disabled. > In summary, we are all in different moccasins. We should recognize them, > value the person in them, and attempt to understand what it means to be in > them so that we can respond to each person where they are at and not try to > put them into little boxes that they don’t quite fit into. But, please, > everyone, recognize that the mom who works outside the home is almost always > working in the home, too and that this is requiring much more of her time > and energy than anyone who is doing only one of those functions. > -Aula, donning the flame retardant materials…. > > Get something straight. Whether you work for a salary outside the home > > or you stay home with children, you work. Questions like this that > > assume that the only people who are working are the ones getting a > > paycheck degrade the value of homemaking. You don’t show much > > sensitivity for someone studying psychology. > Thank you for pointing that out Davidson! That is something that offends > me deeply. I was gainfully employed for 10 years before I became a SAHM. > I > work twice as hard here at home as I ever did in any of the jobs I held in > the "working world." When someone asks me if I work, I always reply "yes. > I stay home and take care of my children." > Sharon > > > How do you decide whether to work or not after a child enters your > family? > > > Does money make the final decision, or are other factors involved? It > is an > > > incredibly complex decision, which can be very difficult to make. > > > George Mason University is conducting a survey to look at this > decision. The > > > survey is completely anonymous and generally takes less than 15 > minutes > to fill > > > out. If you are interested, please go to: > > > http://iota.gmu.edu/psyc734/spasour/consentc.htm > > > Your opinions are important to us as we begin this work, and we > appreciate > > > your participation very much. > > > Sidney Fisher Pasour (mother of two) > > > Douglas Brown > > > Department of Psychology > > > George Mason University
Response:
I tell you what has made the hugest difference for me is that I have walked both sides of the fence. This time that I have been able to spend with Victoria (screw the house, I am here to nuture a baby) has been the most wonderful experience of my life. I do clean and stuff but the majority of the day is us hanging out and going to the park and strollering around the neighborhood and I have gotten so much from being able to devote my time to her. Leaving my son to a wonderful childcare provider was necessary but it broke me in peices on the inside and I dealt with far more ‘issues’ when I was working than I have for the last 9 months that I have stayed at home. I think one universal thing about working moms is the guilt factor. For me that guilt factor was very harsh; I felt like my son got two days out of the week to spend some quality time with me and that was it. I didn’t feel like his mommy but a guest star in his life. Of course I tried my best to make up for it. I don’t remember a time during that six years when I wasn’t completely and totally exhausted (Hubby#1 was no picnic either and I am sure had a great deal to do with it). Working moms that do have that balance and don’t suffer that horrible guilt have attained something I haven’t been able to; that’s for sure. Sarah Mom to Kalen (8) and Vicky Leigh (5 months)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I agree that this does not seem to be a very well contructed survey. > I think the reason SAHM’s get pretty defensive, is because they are put down > so often. People assume that if they stay at home they are brain dead. > That has been my experience. I work from home now, so have the best of both > worlds, but not everybody can do that. I thnk the SAHM or Dad face issues > of isolation, low self esteem, and lack of support. I cannot really comment > about the issues faced by parents who work full time outside the home, > because I have only ever done part time work outside the home since I had > children. More understanding and respect on both sides would go a long > way. > Annemarie > Gently poking in, expecting to get flamed for stating the > obvious…..Those > who work at a paid job and come home to caring for a home, and especially > caring for children in the home, are actually working two jobs. This is a > potentially very stressful, demoralizing experience that continually > forces > choices between work, home, children, husband that *can* leave one feeling > as though nothing is done well. As one becomes more experienced at this, > and at life in general, perhaps one develops the ability to let go of some > things so that they are no longer stressful, such as washing dishes once a > day instead of after very meal, or sitting down and playing with children > instead of vacuuming the rugs right now…. > In the on-going "discussion" about women who work in and outside the home > emotions run very high and I find that I may be susceptible to them as > well. > But, we have all made choices based on beliefs and priorities that are not > quite just like every one else with whom we come in contact. This > discussion should not devolve into an argument where the participants are > essentially defending their choice. It should become instead a discussion > of how to deal with the difficulties that each of us faces, drawing on the > experiences of those who have made similar and different choices. > For the record, I work a 40 hour/week paid job, and spend the rest of my > time parenting, caring for my home and being a wife. I would love to be > able to stay at home with my son, not only because I have decided that one > should only have to work for 20 years and retire. I make daily decisions > about what to let go of. When I am home for a couple weeks on vacation, > the > house is neater, cleaner, the yard gets more attention, and my son is not > constantly bombarding me for *my* attention. Yes, hubby is home with son > when I am at work. He gets plenty attention from a loving parent then. > But, he wants *my* attention when I am present. I am sure a lot of Dads > of > SAHM’s experience the same thing. > I detest the position that our current society has placed me in where I > find > that women who choose not to work [and can financially afford to make that > choice] are devalued. My sister was a SAHM for quite a few years until > her > hubby became disabled. We have discussed this frequently. At the same > time > I have to at least grudgingly value the society that pushed me off to > college where I got a degree that allowed me to access a field where I can > support my family now that my own hubby is disabled. > In summary, we are all in different moccasins. We should recognize them, > value the person in them, and attempt to understand what it means to be in > them so that we can respond to each person where they are at and not try > to > put them into little boxes that they don’t quite fit into. But, please, > everyone, recognize that the mom who works outside the home is almost > always > working in the home, too and that this is requiring much more of her time > and energy than anyone who is doing only one of those functions. > -Aula, donning the flame retardant materials…. > > > Get something straight. Whether you work for a salary outside the home > > > or you stay home with children, you work. Questions like this that > > > assume that the only people who are working are the ones getting a > > > paycheck degrade the value of homemaking. You don’t show much > > > sensitivity for someone studying psychology. > > Thank you for pointing that out Davidson! That is something that > offends > > me deeply. I was gainfully employed for 10 years before I became a > SAHM. > I > > work twice as hard here at home as I ever did in any of the jobs I held > in > > the "working world." When someone asks me if I work, I always reply > "yes. > > I stay home and take care of my children." > > Sharon > > > > How do you decide whether to work or not after a child enters your > > family? > > > > Does money make the final decision, or are other factors involved? > It > > is an > > > > incredibly complex decision, which can be very difficult to make. > > > > George Mason University is conducting a survey to look at this > > decision. The > > > > survey is completely anonymous and generally takes less than 15 > minutes > > to fill > > > > out. If you are interested, please go to: > > > > http://iota.gmu.edu/psyc734/spasour/consentc.htm > > > > Your opinions are important to us as we begin this work, and we > > appreciate > > > > your participation very much. > > > > Sidney Fisher Pasour (mother of two) > > > > Douglas Brown > > > > Department of Psychology > > > > George Mason University
Response:
Hamilton was the first to ask and I replied but haven’t seen it appear here. No my sister does not have children. My parents think she said it because she’s jealous. She’s 9 years older then me, got married later than me (I was 23 she was 31) and I shouldn’t have had children before her. She was "supposed" to have them first. Whatever. I totally agree with everyone who said if she worked outside of as well as in the home, oh yeah, she definitely would have a tougher time of it then me. She’d be working at least twice as hard as me (if not more). I couldn’t imagine doing that. It’s like Bethany said, you "know" people think it, but it’s pretty surprising when a family member actually says it to your face. Later, Sophie mom to Charlotte (22 months) and Patrick (5 months)
Response:
You may have a different experience, as *may* many others who are just starting out as SAHM’s. I have been reading [for whatever that is worth] that having a SAHwife is becoming a status symbol in the US. So, it would seem to me that, at least in some areas/communities where there is a larger amount of discretionary income floating around, that being a SAHM would be more supported and also more likely to be encountered. Then again, who knows what to believe about what you read these days! -Aula
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have to disagree with most of you. (I’m not disagreeing that SAHM’s work a > lot). Ever since I decided to stay home, every single person I tell has said, > what a good decision it is, it’s a lot of work but so important, it’s hard to > go without that 2nd income good for you for making the sacrifice, etc. In > fact, I have used the phrase "I don’t work anymore." and have been corrected > by people. I have not found that people assume I do nothing – quite the > opposite. I have not found that people assume I’m brain dead. Perhaps this > is a sign that society is beginning to value motherhood, and are starting to > realize how important a job it is. > Not saying that others experiences aren’t true, just that mine are very > different. I’ve only been at it nine months – I’m sure there’s plenty of time > to meet ignorant jerks! > Jess >I agree that this does not seem to be a very well contructed survey. >I think the reason SAHM’s get pretty defensive, is because they are put down >so often. People assume that if they stay at home they are brain dead. >That has been my experience. I work from home now, so have the best of both >worlds, but not everybody can do that. I thnk the SAHM or Dad face issues >of isolation, low self esteem, and lack of support. I cannot really comment >about the issues faced by parents who work full time outside the home, >because I have only ever done part time work outside the home since I had >children. More understanding and respect on both sides would go a long >way. >Annemarie >> Gently poking in, expecting to get flamed for stating the >obvious…..Those >> who work at a paid job and come home to caring for a home, and especially >> caring for children in the home, are actually working two jobs. This is a >> potentially very stressful, demoralizing experience that continually >forces >> choices between work, home, children, husband that *can* leave one feeling >> as though nothing is done well. As one becomes more experienced at this, >> and at life in general, perhaps one develops the ability to let go of some >> things so that they are no longer stressful, such as washing dishes once a >> day instead of after very meal, or sitting down and playing with children >> instead of vacuuming the rugs right now…. >> In the on-going "discussion" about women who work in and outside the home >> emotions run very high and I find that I may be susceptible to them as >well. >> But, we have all made choices based on beliefs and priorities that are not >> quite just like every one else with whom we come in contact. This >> discussion should not devolve into an argument where the participants are >> essentially defending their choice. It should become instead a discussion >> of how to deal with the difficulties that each of us faces, drawing on the >> experiences of those who have made similar and different choices. >> For the record, I work a 40 hour/week paid job, and spend the rest of my >> time parenting, caring for my home and being a wife. I would love to be >> able to stay at home with my son, not only because I have decided that one >> should only have to work for 20 years and retire. I make daily decisions >> about what to let go of. When I am home for a couple weeks on vacation, >the >> house is neater, cleaner, the yard gets more attention, and my son is not >> constantly bombarding me for *my* attention. Yes, hubby is home with son >> when I am at work. He gets plenty attention from a loving parent then. >> But, he wants *my* attention when I am present. I am sure a lot of Dads >of >> SAHM’s experience the same thing. >> I detest the position that our current society has placed me in where I >find >> that women who choose not to work [and can financially afford to make that >> choice] are devalued. My sister was a SAHM for quite a few years until >her >> hubby became disabled. We have discussed this frequently. At the same >time >> I have to at least grudgingly value the society that pushed me off to >> college where I got a degree that allowed me to access a field where I can >> support my family now that my own hubby is disabled. >> In summary, we are all in different moccasins. We should recognize them, >> value the person in them, and attempt to understand what it means to be in >> them so that we can respond to each person where they are at and not try >to >> put them into little boxes that they don’t quite fit into. But, please, >> everyone, recognize that the mom who works outside the home is almost >always >> working in the home, too and that this is requiring much more of her time >> and energy than anyone who is doing only one of those functions. >> -Aula, donning the flame retardant materials…. >> > > Get something straight. Whether you work for a salary outside the home >> > > or you stay home with children, you work. Questions like this that >> > > assume that the only people who are working are the ones getting a >> > > paycheck degrade the value of homemaking. You don’t show much >> > > sensitivity for someone studying psychology. >> > Thank you for pointing that out Davidson! That is something that >offends >> > me deeply. I was gainfully employed for 10 years before I became a >SAHM. >> I >> > work twice as hard here at home as I ever did in any of the jobs I held >in >> > the "working world." When someone asks me if I work, I always reply >"yes. >> > I stay home and take care of my children." >> > Sharon >> > > > How do you decide whether to work or not after a child enters your >> > family? >> > > > Does money make the final decision, or are other factors involved? >It >> > is an >> > > > incredibly complex decision, which can be very difficult to make. >> > > > George Mason University is conducting a survey to look at this >> > decision. The >> > > > survey is completely anonymous and generally takes less than 15 >> minutes >> > to fill >> > > > out. If you are interested, please go to: >> > > > http://iota.gmu.edu/psyc734/spasour/consentc.htm >> > > > Your opinions are important to us as we begin this work, and we >> > appreciate >> > > > your participation very much. >> > > > Sidney Fisher Pasour (mother of two) >> > > > Douglas Brown >> > > > Department of Psychology >> > > > George Mason University > "Adorable children are considered to be the general property > of the human race. Rude children belong strictly to their > mothers." - Judith Martin, aka Miss Manners
Response:
>I even get that attitude from family. My sister informed me that I don’t do >anything because I stay home. I don’t have to get dressed and be somewhere >at a certain time so I "do nothing". Charming, huh? Yeah well her "job" is >over at 5 pm, mine is 24/7 but it’s still "nothing".
Does your sister have children? Just curious. Although she’s wrong about you not doing anything because you stay home…….maybe she was feeling stressed because she has children *and* a job outside the home. *If* that’s the case for her, her job isn’t over at 5 PM. …..her job is just beginning at 5 PM. I suppose I’ll get in trouble for saying this……but I just recently quit my job after 15 years, and now stay at home with my kids. I can honestly say though……that for *me*, it was MUCH harder to work everyday and still come home to the kids and the work left at home….than it is to stay home and be a SAHM. JMO. Josie
Response:
> The house right behind us is for sale. In fact, it’s empty so you could > move in right away!!! I would love to have you back there!! ;-}
Ah, but is it in Florida? Now that is the question. :-) Thanks for the good feelings first thing in the a.m. -Aula
Response:
I have to disagree with most of you. (I’m not disagreeing that SAHM’s work a lot). Ever since I decided to stay home, every single person I tell has said, what a good decision it is, it’s a lot of work but so important, it’s hard to go without that 2nd income good for you for making the sacrifice, etc. In fact, I have used the phrase "I don’t work anymore." and have been corrected by people. I have not found that people assume I do nothing – quite the opposite. I have not found that people assume I’m brain dead. Perhaps this is a sign that society is beginning to value motherhood, and are starting to realize how important a job it is. Not saying that others experiences aren’t true, just that mine are very different. I’ve only been at it nine months – I’m sure there’s plenty of time to meet ignorant jerks! Jess – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I agree that this does not seem to be a very well contructed survey. >I think the reason SAHM’s get pretty defensive, is because they are put down >so often. People assume that if they stay at home they are brain dead. >That has been my experience. I work from home now, so have the best of both >worlds, but not everybody can do that. I thnk the SAHM or Dad face issues >of isolation, low self esteem, and lack of support. I cannot really comment >about the issues faced by parents who work full time outside the home, >because I have only ever done part time work outside the home since I had >children. More understanding and respect on both sides would go a long >way. >Annemarie > Gently poking in, expecting to get flamed for stating the >obvious…..Those > who work at a paid job and come home to caring for a home, and especially > caring for children in the home, are actually working two jobs. This is a > potentially very stressful, demoralizing experience that continually >forces > choices between work, home, children, husband that *can* leave one feeling > as though nothing is done well. As one becomes more experienced at this, > and at life in general, perhaps one develops the ability to let go of some > things so that they are no longer stressful, such as washing dishes once a > day instead of after very meal, or sitting down and playing with children > instead of vacuuming the rugs right now…. > In the on-going "discussion" about women who work in and outside the home > emotions run very high and I find that I may be susceptible to them as >well. > But, we have all made choices based on beliefs and priorities that are not > quite just like every one else with whom we come in contact. This > discussion should not devolve into an argument where the participants are > essentially defending their choice. It should become instead a discussion > of how to deal with the difficulties that each of us faces, drawing on the > experiences of those who have made similar and different choices. > For the record, I work a 40 hour/week paid job, and spend the rest of my > time parenting, caring for my home and being a wife. I would love to be > able to stay at home with my son, not only because I have decided that one > should only have to work for 20 years and retire. I make daily decisions > about what to let go of. When I am home for a couple weeks on vacation, >the > house is neater, cleaner, the yard gets more attention, and my son is not > constantly bombarding me for *my* attention. Yes, hubby is home with son > when I am at work. He gets plenty attention from a loving parent then. > But, he wants *my* attention when I am present. I am sure a lot of Dads >of > SAHM’s experience the same thing. > I detest the position that our current society has placed me in where I >find > that women who choose not to work [and can financially afford to make that > choice] are devalued. My sister was a SAHM for quite a few years until >her > hubby became disabled. We have discussed this frequently. At the same >time > I have to at least grudgingly value the society that pushed me off to > college where I got a degree that allowed me to access a field where I can > support my family now that my own hubby is disabled. > In summary, we are all in different moccasins. We should recognize them, > value the person in them, and attempt to understand what it means to be in > them so that we can respond to each person where they are at and not try >to > put them into little boxes that they don’t quite fit into. But, please, > everyone, recognize that the mom who works outside the home is almost >always > working in the home, too and that this is requiring much more of her time > and energy than anyone who is doing only one of those functions. > -Aula, donning the flame retardant materials…. > > > Get something straight. Whether you work for a salary outside the home > > > or you stay home with children, you work. Questions like this that > > > assume that the only people who are working are the ones getting a > > > paycheck degrade the value of homemaking. You don’t show much > > > sensitivity for someone studying psychology. > > Thank you for pointing that out Davidson! That is something that >offends > > me deeply. I was gainfully employed for 10 years before I became a >SAHM. > I > > work twice as hard here at home as I ever did in any of the jobs I held >in > > the "working world." When someone asks me if I work, I always reply >"yes. > > I stay home and take care of my children." > > Sharon > > > > How do you decide whether to work or not after a child enters your > > family? > > > > Does money make the final decision, or are other factors involved? >It > > is an > > > > incredibly complex decision, which can be very difficult to make. > > > > George Mason University is conducting a survey to look at this > > decision. The > > > > survey is completely anonymous and generally takes less than 15 > minutes > > to fill > > > > out. If you are interested, please go to: > > > > http://iota.gmu.edu/psyc734/spasour/consentc.htm > > > > Your opinions are important to us as we begin this work, and we > > appreciate > > > > your participation very much. > > > > Sidney Fisher Pasour (mother of two) > > > > Douglas Brown > > > > Department of Psychology > > > > George Mason University
"Adorable children are considered to be the general property of the human race. Rude children belong strictly to their mothers." - Judith Martin, aka Miss Manners
Response:
> I would never flame you for that post. :-} I agree, parents who work > outside the home have lots of balls to juggle. I did it until I became > pregnant with my son. It isn’t easy. > I would never belittle a mother like you for any reason. We all do what we > have to do to keep roofs over our heads and bellies full. > In my earlier post, I was just expressing my frustration with people who > think I don’t do ANYTHING, certainly not anything worthwhile because I am a > SAHM. I get a lot of that around here. I have one neighbor in particular > who makes comments like that all the time. It really pushes my buttons!!!
While I understood your original post and it’s intent, I found that the responses I was reading, with the usual Usenet digressions and topic widening, were becoming increasingly polarized. So, I responded to that. But, on the more personal note…. ALL SAHM’s READ THIS 
I know SAHM’s do a lot because I know what *doesn’t* get done around this house unless I am on vacation! You folks do a whole heck of a lot and are often some of the few folks in the neighborhood home all day, so it can be a very lonely time, too. Keep it up. A lot of us would really love to change places with you, or at least move in next door and learn from you. We all have a lot to learn from each other. Let’s keep reaching out the hand of friendship rather than slapping the cheek in challenge. -Aula
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> While I understood your original post and it’s intent, I found that the > responses I was reading, with the usual Usenet digressions and topic > widening, were becoming increasingly polarized. So, I responded to that. > But, on the more personal note…. > ALL SAHM’s READ THIS > I know SAHM’s do a lot because I know what *doesn’t* get done around > this house unless I am on vacation! You folks do a whole heck of a lot and > are often some of the few folks in the neighborhood home all day, so it can > be a very lonely time, too. Keep it up. A lot of us would really love to > change places with you, or at least move in next door and learn from you. > We all have a lot to learn from each other. Let’s keep reaching out the > hand of friendship rather than slapping the cheek in challenge. > -Aula
Aula, The house right behind us is for sale. In fact, it’s empty so you could move in right away!!! I would love to have you back there!! ;-} Sharon
Response:
> Gently poking in, expecting to get flamed for stating the obvious> In the
on-going "discussion" about women who work in and outside the home > In summary, we are all in different moccasins. We should recognize them, > value the person in them, and attempt to understand what it means to be in > them so that we can respond to each person where they are at and not try to > put them into little boxes that they don’t quite fit into. But, please, > everyone, recognize that the mom who works outside the home is almost always > working in the home, too and that this is requiring much more of her time > and energy than anyone who is doing only one of those functions. > -Aula, donning the flame retardant materials….
I would never flame you for that post. :-} I agree, parents who work outside the home have lots of balls to juggle. I did it until I became pregnant with my son. It isn’t easy. I would never belittle a mother like you for any reason. We all do what we have to do to keep roofs over our heads and bellies full. In my earlier post, I was just expressing my frustration with people who think I don’t do ANYTHING, certainly not anything worthwhile because I am a SAHM. I get a lot of that around here. I have one neighbor in particular who makes comments like that all the time. It really pushes my buttons!!! Sharon
Response:
I get that crap all the time. Makes me furious. BTW- my older sister came right out and said the same thing to me. And she was always insinuating it. Then she admitted to me a while ago that she’s jealous that I have a kid. (she’s still waiting for the right time.) And she apologized for her comments. Anyway, when she told me that, I was glad that I didn’t say all of the horrible things that popped into my head before… I just laughed it off like you did, and said she’ll find out what it’s like, eventually. ~Bethany – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I even get that attitude from family. My sister informed me that I don’t do >anything because I stay home. I don’t have to get dressed and be somewhere >at a certain time so I "do nothing". Charming, huh? Yeah well her "job" is >over at 5 pm, mine is 24/7 but it’s still "nothing". >I’ll end my rant there before I get carried away. Lol. >Later, Sophie >mom to Charlotte (22 months) and Patrick (5 months)
Response:
I agree that this does not seem to be a very well contructed survey. I think the reason SAHM’s get pretty defensive, is because they are put down so often. People assume that if they stay at home they are brain dead. That has been my experience. I work from home now, so have the best of both worlds, but not everybody can do that. I thnk the SAHM or Dad face issues of isolation, low self esteem, and lack of support. I cannot really comment about the issues faced by parents who work full time outside the home, because I have only ever done part time work outside the home since I had children. More understanding and respect on both sides would go a long way. Annemarie
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Gently poking in, expecting to get flamed for stating the obvious…..Those > who work at a paid job and come home to caring for a home, and especially > caring for children in the home, are actually working two jobs. This is a > potentially very stressful, demoralizing experience that continually forces > choices between work, home, children, husband that *can* leave one feeling > as though nothing is done well. As one becomes more experienced at this, > and at life in general, perhaps one develops the ability to let go of some > things so that they are no longer stressful, such as washing dishes once a > day instead of after very meal, or sitting down and playing with children > instead of vacuuming the rugs right now…. > In the on-going "discussion" about women who work in and outside the home > emotions run very high and I find that I may be susceptible to them as well. > But, we have all made choices based on beliefs and priorities that are not > quite just like every one else with whom we come in contact. This > discussion should not devolve into an argument where the participants are > essentially defending their choice. It should become instead a discussion > of how to deal with the difficulties that each of us faces, drawing on the > experiences of those who have made similar and different choices. > For the record, I work a 40 hour/week paid job, and spend the rest of my > time parenting, caring for my home and being a wife. I would love to be > able to stay at home with my son, not only because I have decided that one > should only have to work for 20 years and retire. I make daily decisions > about what to let go of. When I am home for a couple weeks on vacation, the > house is neater, cleaner, the yard gets more attention, and my son is not > constantly bombarding me for *my* attention. Yes, hubby is home with son > when I am at work. He gets plenty attention from a loving parent then. > But, he wants *my* attention when I am present. I am sure a lot of Dads of > SAHM’s experience the same thing. > I detest the position that our current society has placed me in where I find > that women who choose not to work [and can financially afford to make that > choice] are devalued. My sister was a SAHM for quite a few years until her > hubby became disabled. We have discussed this frequently. At the same time > I have to at least grudgingly value the society that pushed me off to > college where I got a degree that allowed me to access a field where I can > support my family now that my own hubby is disabled. > In summary, we are all in different moccasins. We should recognize them, > value the person in them, and attempt to understand what it means to be in > them so that we can respond to each person where they are at and not try to > put them into little boxes that they don’t quite fit into. But, please, > everyone, recognize that the mom who works outside the home is almost always > working in the home, too and that this is requiring much more of her time > and energy than anyone who is doing only one of those functions. > -Aula, donning the flame retardant materials…. > > Get something straight. Whether you work for a salary outside the home > > or you stay home with children, you work. Questions like this that > > assume that the only people who are working are the ones getting a > > paycheck degrade the value of homemaking. You don’t show much > > sensitivity for someone studying psychology. > Thank you for pointing that out Davidson! That is something that offends > me deeply. I was gainfully employed for 10 years before I became a SAHM. > I > work twice as hard here at home as I ever did in any of the jobs I held in > the "working world." When someone asks me if I work, I always reply "yes. > I stay home and take care of my children." > Sharon > > > How do you decide whether to work or not after a child enters your > family? > > > Does money make the final decision, or are other factors involved? It > is an > > > incredibly complex decision, which can be very difficult to make. > > > George Mason University is conducting a survey to look at this > decision. The > > > survey is completely anonymous and generally takes less than 15 > minutes > to fill > > > out. If you are interested, please go to: > > > http://iota.gmu.edu/psyc734/spasour/consentc.htm > > > Your opinions are important to us as we begin this work, and we > appreciate > > > your participation very much. > > > Sidney Fisher Pasour (mother of two) > > > Douglas Brown > > > Department of Psychology > > > George Mason University
Response:
> Hamilton, > No she doesn’t have any kids. Actually I did laugh, because I was so > shocked she would say that to my face. > Later, Sophie > mom to Charlotte (22 months) and Patrick (5 months)
hang in there. a slightly supercilious attitude complete with amused half smile is perfect for this twit and anyone else who would be such a doofus. if you feel good about what you are doing — then to hell with the relatives.
Response:
So true, and the original questionnaire that set off this thread doesn’t consider that either. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Gently poking in, expecting to get flamed for stating the obvious…..Those > who work at a paid job and come home to caring for a home, and especially > caring for children in the home, are actually working two jobs. This is a > potentially very stressful, demoralizing experience that continually forces > choices between work, home, children, husband that *can* leave one feeling > as though nothing is done well. As one becomes more experienced at this, > and at life in general, perhaps one develops the ability to let go of some > things so that they are no longer stressful, such as washing dishes once a > day instead of after very meal, or sitting down and playing with children > instead of vacuuming the rugs right now…. > In the on-going "discussion" about women who work in and outside the home > emotions run very high and I find that I may be susceptible to them as well. > But, we have all made choices based on beliefs and priorities that are not > quite just like every one else with whom we come in contact. This > discussion should not devolve into an argument where the participants are > essentially defending their choice. It should become instead a discussion > of how to deal with the difficulties that each of us faces, drawing on the > experiences of those who have made similar and different choices. > For the record, I work a 40 hour/week paid job, and spend the rest of my > time parenting, caring for my home and being a wife. I would love to be > able to stay at home with my son, not only because I have decided that one > should only have to work for 20 years and retire. I make daily decisions > about what to let go of. When I am home for a couple weeks on vacation, the > house is neater, cleaner, the yard gets more attention, and my son is not > constantly bombarding me for *my* attention. Yes, hubby is home with son > when I am at work. He gets plenty attention from a loving parent then. > But, he wants *my* attention when I am present. I am sure a lot of Dads of > SAHM’s experience the same thing. > I detest the position that our current society has placed me in where I find > that women who choose not to work [and can financially afford to make that > choice] are devalued. My sister was a SAHM for quite a few years until her > hubby became disabled. We have discussed this frequently. At the same time > I have to at least grudgingly value the society that pushed me off to > college where I got a degree that allowed me to access a field where I can > support my family now that my own hubby is disabled. > In summary, we are all in different moccasins. We should recognize them, > value the person in them, and attempt to understand what it means to be in > them so that we can respond to each person where they are at and not try to > put them into little boxes that they don’t quite fit into. But, please, > everyone, recognize that the mom who works outside the home is almost always > working in the home, too and that this is requiring much more of her time > and energy than anyone who is doing only one of those functions. > -Aula, donning the flame retardant materials…. > > Get something straight. Whether you work for a salary outside the home > > or you stay home with children, you work. Questions like this that > > assume that the only people who are working are the ones getting a > > paycheck degrade the value of homemaking. You don’t show much > > sensitivity for someone studying psychology. > Thank you for pointing that out Davidson! That is something that offends > me deeply. I was gainfully employed for 10 years before I became a SAHM. > I > work twice as hard here at home as I ever did in any of the jobs I held in > the "working world." When someone asks me if I work, I always reply "yes. > I stay home and take care of my children." > Sharon > > > How do you decide whether to work or not after a child enters your > family? > > > Does money make the final decision, or are other factors involved? It > is an > > > incredibly complex decision, which can be very difficult to make. > > > George Mason University is conducting a survey to look at this > decision. The > > > survey is completely anonymous and generally takes less than 15 > minutes > to fill > > > out. If you are interested, please go to: > > > http://iota.gmu.edu/psyc734/spasour/consentc.htm > > > Your opinions are important to us as we begin this work, and we > appreciate > > > your participation very much. > > > Sidney Fisher Pasour (mother of two) > > > Douglas Brown > > > Department of Psychology > > > George Mason University
Response:
Gently poking in, expecting to get flamed for stating the obvious…..Those who work at a paid job and come home to caring for a home, and especially caring for children in the home, are actually working two jobs. This is a potentially very stressful, demoralizing experience that continually forces choices between work, home, children, husband that *can* leave one feeling as though nothing is done well. As one becomes more experienced at this, and at life in general, perhaps one develops the ability to let go of some things so that they are no longer stressful, such as washing dishes once a day instead of after very meal, or sitting down and playing with children instead of vacuuming the rugs right now…. In the on-going "discussion" about women who work in and outside the home emotions run very high and I find that I may be susceptible to them as well. But, we have all made choices based on beliefs and priorities that are not quite just like every one else with whom we come in contact. This discussion should not devolve into an argument where the participants are essentially defending their choice. It should become instead a discussion of how to deal with the difficulties that each of us faces, drawing on the experiences of those who have made similar and different choices. For the record, I work a 40 hour/week paid job, and spend the rest of my time parenting, caring for my home and being a wife. I would love to be able to stay at home with my son, not only because I have decided that one should only have to work for 20 years and retire. I make daily decisions about what to let go of. When I am home for a couple weeks on vacation, the house is neater, cleaner, the yard gets more attention, and my son is not constantly bombarding me for *my* attention. Yes, hubby is home with son when I am at work. He gets plenty attention from a loving parent then. But, he wants *my* attention when I am present. I am sure a lot of Dads of SAHM’s experience the same thing. I detest the position that our current society has placed me in where I find that women who choose not to work [and can financially afford to make that choice] are devalued. My sister was a SAHM for quite a few years until her hubby became disabled. We have discussed this frequently. At the same time I have to at least grudgingly value the society that pushed me off to college where I got a degree that allowed me to access a field where I can support my family now that my own hubby is disabled. In summary, we are all in different moccasins. We should recognize them, value the person in them, and attempt to understand what it means to be in them so that we can respond to each person where they are at and not try to put them into little boxes that they don’t quite fit into. But, please, everyone, recognize that the mom who works outside the home is almost always working in the home, too and that this is requiring much more of her time and energy than anyone who is doing only one of those functions. -Aula, donning the flame retardant materials…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Get something straight. Whether you work for a salary outside the home > or you stay home with children, you work. Questions like this that > assume that the only people who are working are the ones getting a > paycheck degrade the value of homemaking. You don’t show much > sensitivity for someone studying psychology. > Thank you for pointing that out Davidson! That is something that offends > me deeply. I was gainfully employed for 10 years before I became a SAHM. I > work twice as hard here at home as I ever did in any of the jobs I held in > the "working world." When someone asks me if I work, I always reply "yes. > I stay home and take care of my children." > Sharon > > How do you decide whether to work or not after a child enters your > family? > > Does money make the final decision, or are other factors involved? It > is an > > incredibly complex decision, which can be very difficult to make. > > George Mason University is conducting a survey to look at this > decision. The > > survey is completely anonymous and generally takes less than 15 minutes > to fill > > out. If you are interested, please go to: > > http://iota.gmu.edu/psyc734/spasour/consentc.htm > > Your opinions are important to us as we begin this work, and we > appreciate > > your participation very much. > > Sidney Fisher Pasour (mother of two) > > Douglas Brown > > Department of Psychology > > George Mason University
Response:
Hamilton, No she doesn’t have any kids. Actually I did laugh, because I was so shocked she would say that to my face. Later, Sophie mom to Charlotte (22 months) and Patrick (5 months)
Response:
I noticed that. early questions establish one’s child care arrangements, but all subsequent ones discuss the situation as though the child is in day care with strangers, and don’t give you a "not applicable" response option. Talk about pre-conceptions coloring the results of their study! -Aula
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The survey it gives you does not leave room for a parent watching the child, > either. All the questions assume you use an outside provider instead of one > parent being home at all times. (like planning your hours so when dad works, > mom is home and when mom works, dad is home) > Marie
Response:
> I even get that attitude from family. My sister informed me that I don’t do > anything because I stay home. I don’t have to get dressed and be somewhere > at a certain time so I "do nothing". Charming, huh? Yeah well her "job" is > over at 5 pm, mine is 24/7 but it’s still "nothing". > I’ll end my rant there before I get carried away. Lol.
does she have kids? and when she gets home is she still ‘off’ — if she has kids, it sounds like her job is 24/7 as well — if she doesn’t, rather than getting so defensive why not just laugh in her face?
Response:
Get something straight. Whether you work for a salary outside the home or you stay home with children, you work. Questions like this that assume that the only people who are working are the ones getting a paycheck degrade the value of homemaking. You don’t show much sensitivity for someone studying psychology. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > How do you decide whether to work or not after a child enters your family? > Does money make the final decision, or are other factors involved? It is an > incredibly complex decision, which can be very difficult to make. > George Mason University is conducting a survey to look at this decision. The > survey is completely anonymous and generally takes less than 15 minutes to fill > out. If you are interested, please go to: > http://iota.gmu.edu/psyc734/spasour/consentc.htm > Your opinions are important to us as we begin this work, and we appreciate > your participation very much. > Sidney Fisher Pasour (mother of two) > Douglas Brown > Department of Psychology > George Mason University
Response:
The survey it gives you does not leave room for a parent watching the child, either. All the questions assume you use an outside provider instead of one parent being home at all times. (like planning your hours so when dad works, mom is home and when mom works, dad is home) Marie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Get something straight. Whether you work for a salary outside the home >or you stay home with children, you work. Questions like this that >assume that the only people who are working are the ones getting a >paycheck degrade the value of homemaking. You don’t show much >sensitivity for someone studying psychology. > How do you decide whether to work or not after a child enters your family? > Does money make the final decision, or are other factors involved? It is an > incredibly complex decision, which can be very difficult to make. > George Mason University is conducting a survey to look at this decision. The > survey is completely anonymous and generally takes less than 15 minutes to fill > out. If you are interested, please go to: > http://iota.gmu.edu/psyc734/spasour/consentc.htm > Your opinions are important to us as we begin this work, and we appreciate > your participation very much. > Sidney Fisher Pasour (mother of two) > Douglas Brown > Department of Psychology > George Mason University
Response:
I even get that attitude from family. My sister informed me that I don’t do anything because I stay home. I don’t have to get dressed and be somewhere at a certain time so I "do nothing". Charming, huh? Yeah well her "job" is over at 5 pm, mine is 24/7 but it’s still "nothing". I’ll end my rant there before I get carried away. Lol. Later, Sophie mom to Charlotte (22 months) and Patrick (5 months)
Response:
I go to college (or, I did until last week! I’m done yay) and in certain classes, when we discuss our life and what we do, when I say I stay home with my children everyone says "Wow you are lucky. I wish I didn’t have to work!" It is very offensive the things people say about it. We don’t leave a clean house for 8-10 hours a day and come home to it clean. We make more meals staying at home, we teach our children, we are constantly doing, doing, doing. I have a friend who stopped working and stayed home for a few months. Well, her 2 month old and 2 year old got sent to a babysitter’s Mon.-Fri. while she stayed home. And then complained about how the 2 year old acts when she finally goes to pick them up. (this is not even a daycare or any kind of educational group.) Marie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I even get that attitude from family. My sister informed me that I don’t do >anything because I stay home. I don’t have to get dressed and be somewhere >at a certain time so I "do nothing". Charming, huh? Yeah well her "job" is >over at 5 pm, mine is 24/7 but it’s still "nothing". >I’ll end my rant there before I get carried away. Lol. >Later, Sophie >mom to Charlotte (22 months) and Patrick (5 months)
Response:
> Get something straight. Whether you work for a salary outside the home > or you stay home with children, you work. Questions like this that > assume that the only people who are working are the ones getting a > paycheck degrade the value of homemaking. You don’t show much > sensitivity for someone studying psychology.
Thank you for pointing that out Davidson! That is something that offends me deeply. I was gainfully employed for 10 years before I became a SAHM. I work twice as hard here at home as I ever did in any of the jobs I held in the "working world." When someone asks me if I work, I always reply "yes. I stay home and take care of my children." Sharon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> How do you decide whether to work or not after a child enters your family? > Does money make the final decision, or are other factors involved? It is an > incredibly complex decision, which can be very difficult to make. > George Mason University is conducting a survey to look at this decision. The > survey is completely anonymous and generally takes less than 15 minutes to fill > out. If you are interested, please go to: > http://iota.gmu.edu/psyc734/spasour/consentc.htm > Your opinions are important to us as we begin this work, and we appreciate > your participation very much. > Sidney Fisher Pasour (mother of two) > Douglas Brown > Department of Psychology > George Mason University
Response:
How do you decide whether to work or not after a child enters your family? Does money make the final decision, or are other factors involved? It is an incredibly complex decision, which can be very difficult to make. George Mason University is conducting a survey to look at this decision. The survey is completely anonymous and generally takes less than 15 minutes to fill out. If you are interested, please go to: http://iota.gmu.edu/psyc734/spasour/consentc.htm Your opinions are important to us as we begin this work, and we appreciate your participation very much. Sidney Fisher Pasour (mother of two) Douglas Brown Department of Psychology George Mason University
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