Question:
>hmm nice idea – but like everything else to do with kids – it’ll only last >ten minutes till they catch on what your at! 
>Bloomin kids! >Susan
Yea, beast to just ignore the tantrums. Julie didn’t want to take a nap the other day. So we gated her in her room and told her to lay down and take a nap. Nope, big tantrum. "You are going to take a nap, and screaming about it won’t change anything!" I said. Then I went out to do some computer work. Soon it got quiet. I peeked into her room to see if she was OK. She was laying on the floor, sniffling. Didn’t see me. A few minutes latter she was asleep. — Just my $0.02 worth. Hope this helps, Gordon PS: For e-mail: replace ‘X.bleeb’ with ‘greeder’. I do not tollerate spam. Any unsolicited bulk e-mail will result in a complaint to your ISP.
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Cute post. Very true I’ve always found that a little diversion really does the trick….just change directions REAL fast so they don’t even – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I accidentally discovered a novel way to deal with the tantrums my eldest > likes to throw. > Let’s say he has (just so no-one will argue and say I should let him keep > it!) a 10 inch bread knife. I take it away and explain that it is dangerous > and not a toy. He throws himself on the floor, screams and drums his heels. > I turn my back and smile (well, he’s so predictable, what else can I do?). > Now here’s the clever bit. > I go get one of his favorite toys (right now Seuss’s "Go, Dogs. Go!" is the > preferred one) and I walk back casually past him but without looking at him. > He springs to his feet wailing a bit (but much less horribly) because he > wants the book. "What?" I say, batting my eyelids like Scarlett O’Hara, > "This old thing? Why surely you may have it, sweetie." > End of problem. Just thought I’d share. > PS No, none of my kids has ever *really* held a 10-inch bread knife. It’s > just a little fantasy that I like to indulge in sometimes at the end of a > long day. :-)) > –Janet > Triplets (10/21/96)
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I accidentally discovered a novel way to deal with the tantrums my eldest likes to throw. Let’s say he has (just so no-one will argue and say I should let him keep it!) a 10 inch bread knife. I take it away and explain that it is dangerous and not a toy. He throws himself on the floor, screams and drums his heels. I turn my back and smile (well, he’s so predictable, what else can I do?). Now here’s the clever bit. I go get one of his favorite toys (right now Seuss’s "Go, Dogs. Go!" is the preferred one) and I walk back casually past him but without looking at him. He springs to his feet wailing a bit (but much less horribly) because he wants the book. "What?" I say, batting my eyelids like Scarlett O’Hara, "This old thing? Why surely you may have it, sweetie." End of problem. Just thought I’d share. PS No, none of my kids has ever *really* held a 10-inch bread knife. It’s just a little fantasy that I like to indulge in sometimes at the end of a long day. :-)) –Janet Triplets (10/21/96)
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PS No, none of my kids has ever *really* held a 10-inch bread knife. It’s just a little fantasy that I like to indulge in sometimes at the end of a long day. :-)) LOL Cally
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hmm nice idea – but like everything else to do with kids – it’ll only last ten minutes till they catch on what your at! Bloomin kids! Susan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I accidentally discovered a novel way to deal with the tantrums my eldest >likes to throw. >Let’s say he has (just so no-one will argue and say I should let him keep >it!) a 10 inch bread knife. I take it away and explain that it is dangerous >and not a toy. He throws himself on the floor, screams and drums his heels. >I turn my back and smile (well, he’s so predictable, what else can I do?). >Now here’s the clever bit. >I go get one of his favorite toys (right now Seuss’s "Go, Dogs. Go!" is the >preferred one) and I walk back casually past him but without looking at him. >He springs to his feet wailing a bit (but much less horribly) because he >wants the book. "What?" I say, batting my eyelids like Scarlett O’Hara, >"This old thing? Why surely you may have it, sweetie." >End of problem. Just thought I’d share. >PS No, none of my kids has ever *really* held a 10-inch bread knife. It’s >just a little fantasy that I like to indulge in sometimes at the end of a >long day. :-)) >–Janet >Triplets (10/21/96)
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > good point — the primary reason for unruly obnoxious kids is lazy parents > > > — who don’t do what you and the previous poster are suggesting. > > Now THAT’S obnoxious overbearing bullshit if I ever heard it!! After > > they are done treating their kids like shit you say that if that doesn’t > > really WORK just to BEAT them harder!! You’re insane. > you are soooo lame. the idea that structure and discipline and CARING > enough abuot a kid to raise him right is abusive is goofy. > No. I see "authority"-ABUSE as punishable and I see a better way to > treat children, namely like PERSONS!! > kids who are > not cared for by lazy parents who just let them do whatever they want all > the time are rarely very happy or satisfied adults when they get there. > That’s not who I am at all, but you can’t fathom other than your two > extremes, abuse vs neglect. > Your mistake is your imagining that there are only two possible ways to > treat children, and you leave out any possible THIRD way, or you try to > jam it sideways into one of your first two so you can keep thinking your > stupid short-sighted dichotomy of either abuse or neglect, just so you > can choose your favorite, which is ABUSE!!
you are the one dischotimizing — Hamilton never suggested hitting kids at all — you are the one who equates structure with abuse and your own abusive discourse suggests a person who would be toxic to kids and other living things. can’t imagine your hostility and viciousness doesn’t color everything you do in a human relationship. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> to equate discipline with hitting kids suggests an unimaginative rather > dull person > > > In the > > > early years, it is often inconvenient but nevertheless vital to get off > > > our dead asses and follow through — even when it means disrupting our > > > schedules etc etc > > Gee, beating your kids is just SO much work (compared to meeting their > > needs in the FIRST place, of course!!) > one of the most consistent needs of children is consistency and structure — > The prime need of children is consistent LOVE. THAT’S where the > consistency comes in, or did you imagine that consistent BEATINGS > would do as well??? Eh, moron?? > Steve > > > the effort invested as demonstrated here will have big payoff for years– > > > it is so much easier to civilize pre-schoolers than to neglect that and > > > try to deal with major obnox behavior in older kids and teens. > > YOU have it BACKWARDS!!: > > What you REALLY don’t get is that attempting to "civilize", as you say, > > little kids is what makes them want to hurt you or kill you when they’re > > your size!! Instead YOU’RE the one who needs to be "civilized"!! > > Steve
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Thanks for your kind and thoughtful, helpful suggestions Steve, and I’ll certainly consult you in the future, because clearly, you are a wise loving person who speaks reasonably to others. Mary G.
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> > good point — the primary reason for unruly obnoxious kids is lazy parents > — who don’t do what you and the previous poster are suggesting. > Now THAT’S obnoxious overbearing bullshit if I ever heard it!! After > they are done treating their kids like shit you say that if that doesn’t > really WORK just to BEAT them harder!! You’re insane.
you are soooo lame. the idea that structure and discipline and CARING enough abuot a kid to raise him right is abusive is goofy. kids who are not cared for by lazy parents who just let them do whatever they want all the time are rarely very happy or satisfied adults when they get there. to equate discipline with hitting kids suggests an unimaginative rather dull person > In the > early years, it is often inconvenient but nevertheless vital to get off > our dead asses and follow through — even when it means disrupting our > schedules etc etc > Gee, beating your kids is just SO much work (compared to meeting their > needs in the FIRST place, of course!!)
one of the most consistent needs of children is consistency and structure — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> the effort invested as demonstrated here will have big payoff for years– > it is so much easier to civilize pre-schoolers than to neglect that and > try to deal with major obnox behavior in older kids and teens. > YOU have it BACKWARDS!!: > What you REALLY don’t get is that attempting to "civilize", as you say, > little kids is what makes them want to hurt you or kill you when they’re > your size!! Instead YOU’RE the one who needs to be "civilized"!! > Steve
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>Hey Steve, I notice that you’ve spent time picking apart everyone >else’s suggestions. Do YOU have any advice for Charlene??? Let’s hear >it! I challenge ya.
He’s yours now, Nancy. You feed him!
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> > > good point — the primary reason for unruly obnoxious kids is lazy parents > > — who don’t do what you and the previous poster are suggesting. > Now THAT’S obnoxious overbearing bullshit if I ever heard it!! After > they are done treating their kids like shit you say that if that doesn’t > really WORK just to BEAT them harder!! You’re insane. > you are soooo lame. the idea that structure and discipline and CARING > enough abuot a kid to raise him right is abusive is goofy.
No. I see "authority"-ABUSE as punishable and I see a better way to treat children, namely like PERSONS!! > kids who are > not cared for by lazy parents who just let them do whatever they want all > the time are rarely very happy or satisfied adults when they get there.
That’s not who I am at all, but you can’t fathom other than your two extremes, abuse vs neglect. Your mistake is your imagining that there are only two possible ways to treat children, and you leave out any possible THIRD way, or you try to jam it sideways into one of your first two so you can keep thinking your stupid short-sighted dichotomy of either abuse or neglect, just so you can choose your favorite, which is ABUSE!! > to equate discipline with hitting kids suggests an unimaginative rather > dull person > > In the > > early years, it is often inconvenient but nevertheless vital to get off > > our dead asses and follow through — even when it means disrupting our > > schedules etc etc > Gee, beating your kids is just SO much work (compared to meeting their > needs in the FIRST place, of course!!) > one of the most consistent needs of children is consistency and structure —
The prime need of children is consistent LOVE. THAT’S where the consistency comes in, or did you imagine that consistent BEATINGS would do as well??? Eh, moron?? Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > the effort invested as demonstrated here will have big payoff for years– > > it is so much easier to civilize pre-schoolers than to neglect that and > > try to deal with major obnox behavior in older kids and teens. > YOU have it BACKWARDS!!: > What you REALLY don’t get is that attempting to "civilize", as you say, > little kids is what makes them want to hurt you or kill you when they’re > your size!! Instead YOU’RE the one who needs to be "civilized"!! > Steve
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> Hey Steve, I notice that you’ve spent time picking apart everyone > else’s suggestions. Do YOU have any advice for Charlene??? Let’s hear > it! I challenge ya. > — > ~Nancy~
When a child starts to cry, stop what you’re doing, sit down and front of them, apologize, hug them, and ask them what was hurting their feelings so much. If you always inquire in that way and always do something FAIR about it they will never learn to throw any kind of full-fledged tantrum, because will recognize that they won’t need to with you, and their hate will never develop against you. Tantrums only occur when a child is not treated as you would find you HAVE to treat other human beings who love you. When you are about to go to the store with them, sit down and tell them what you need to do and ask them what they would like to get out of the trip or achieve by going with you. Fire up their imagination and take their desires into as much consideration as your own, just as you’d do with a housemate who wanted to go with you to the store! If they don’t want to go with you and you really need to go tell them what will happen if they don’t help you. Indicate that you are out of this or that and can’t make a nice dinner for them. Then apologize for taking them away from what they are doing and take the time with them to either get to a point at which they can leave it or show them how to carefully put it away where it won’t be harmed. Ask them what they want to wear and if they need to pee or get a drink or whatever, and always converse with them about what THEY want to get out of it, as you would with any civilized adult. Do this and they will be verbal, happy, trustful of you, and they will love you deeply. Above all don’t ever violate them personally by dragging them or shaming them or threatening them if they are absolutely opposed to going. You wouldn’t do that to a friend and you won’t have to do that with children to get done whatever needs to be done. Don’t force them. Express yourself to them, act disappointed, and maybe YOU pout or whatever, and in ten minutes or so your child will come to you and ask you out to the store with HIM, just wait and see!! I raised two kids this way and they never needed tantrums, didn’t even understand the word at first, and didn’t know what to make of kids they saw doing that in stores. It was very disturbing to see it for them, and they always looked horrified and thought an ambulance should be called!! I always told them that more likely the police shouild be called, if only the police knew how to make those adults behave properly! Steve
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It is harder with public tantrums, since they can be a function of a kid > being stressed out – tired, hungry, overstimulated. And it can be > embarrassing (I have just stood there silently beside a kid pitching a > fit and let it runs its course – other shoppers probably thought I was a > nutbar). However, the usual drill is that we go home if a child can’t > behave – no treats, no more shopping, no post shopping visit to the park, > no nothing – HOME. Very hard to follow through on, since sometimes you > just have to get those groceries, but I have cut trips short and gone > straight home (can’t say that I wasn’t FUMING at the inconvenience, but > what are you going to do?) Try again another day when kid is fed, rested > and has been told in advance what the rules are. > The attitude that we take is that the most important priority, at all > times, (ok, second to "life and limb") is learning to be civilized. > And so, if training the boy to be civilized means that some other > thing doesn’t get done (like groceries), well, that’s just an > unavoidable consequence of our choice to make socialization job one. > That also means that we plan as far in advance as possible to permit > adding "obedience lessons" into our routines without totally > jeapordizing, for instance, airline schedules. > In practice, this means that when we are planning an airplane trip, we > plan to arrive at the airport about an hour early. (this is a piece > of cake so far, since he enjoys air travel so much that he has been > unfailingly perfectly behaved, but there’s always a first time.) That > leaves us time to get ice cream, or play in the play area, and still > leaves us with something tangible and close at hand that we can withold > as punishment, should the need arise. > I don’t know if I would have the guts to say "if you don’t behave, > we’re going home right now, and we WON’T go to Grandma’s house, and > you WON’T get to go to the beach, etc". We’ve done this enough with > outings closer to home that (1) I think the boy wouldn’t dare push > things that far and (2) I think I’d be bound to follow through. Don’t > write checks you can’t pay…
By the way, the debiting of these "checks" happens after puberty, and the enemies you make now will soon outrank you by size and health and hatred if you make them. So be nice or be hurting. Steve
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> > > Ignoring is best. > Does that work with your friends? Whaddaya mean you don’t HAVE any!?? > I usually ignore idiots that post in these groups, too. I just > couldn’t resist yours, though. <G>
<G>! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > If you can, take him to a separate area in your > > house where he can have his tantrum, yet not subject you to > listening > > to all the screaming. A friend of mine had a boy that would throw > > himself down and kick and scream. She simply walked around or over > him > > to get whatever it was that she needed to do, done. I used to be > > amazed, but at the time I had no kids myself <g> > And I know it made you feel sick and ill inside and "wrong", didn’t > it!!!? > Uhm, no, it made me want to put him in his room because his screaming > was driving me crazy. I was amazed she had learned how to tune it out. > Ever wonder why? > Not at all.
Then you had been brainwashed sufficiently that you were unable to feel what SHOULD happen. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > In many parent’s lives can come a time when shopping and eating out > > become things you don’t do much of because of this phase. We can’t > > really give up on grocery shopping, though If it happens, you > can > > always just have your DH stay home with him while you do the > shopping. > > If that isn’t an option for you, then you can try to determine if > his > > tantrums are precipitated by him being hungry, tired, or over- > > stimulated. If that’s the case you can go shopping after he’s > eaten, > > or take a small snack with you. Go shopping after his nap so he’s > well- > > rested. Try to avoid shopping after an already busy day for him, > and > > you. > Avoidance of learning is cured by… learning. > Steve > Yep, and if your child can’t manage to be in public for a short time > period of say, 6 months average until they are better equipped to do > so, there is not going to be any lasting damage. > — > ~Nancy~
You are making no sense here. Your meaning is disjointed. If a child is treated properly, whether in private or public, they won’t feel the need to protest loudly!! Did you ever consider that, or is blind obedience the way you were raised so that you can’t even really feel anymore? You remind me of the Edwardian parent who were admonished by the Church of England to beat their children if they spoke aloud in public or they shall never "learn". Steve
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> > <the-funny-thing-is–and-I-have-this-from-a-reliable-source–
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > it is so much easier to civilize pre-schoolers than to neglect that and > > > try to deal with major obnox behavior in older kids and teens. > > Well, I certainly hope so. He sure can be obnoxious now, at only > > four :-} Seriously, he’s a pretty good kid, most of the time — > > save when he’s missed his afternoon nap. Then he’s hell on wheels. > there is also ebb and flow — kids typically go through stages of being > difficult and consolidation stages where they are easier to live with — > of course some kids are ALWAYS relatively easy to live with and others > more challenging — but just when you think you have succeeded as a > parent, they are likely to enter a new stage of growth — the swings are > about every six months when they are little — and every year or so when > they are older. All this is well documented in Illg and Ames books on > child development — which is well worth having [and often reassuring] > Yes, all the western child-"abusing" books read like this, I bet they > had a similar book for black slaves which sold a treat at the slave > auctions in the Carolinas a few centuries back. When you push a spring > it pushes back, and as it gets bigger it pushes back harder!! > So don’t push. > Steve
Hey Steve, I notice that you’ve spent time picking apart everyone else’s suggestions. Do YOU have any advice for Charlene??? Let’s hear it! I challenge ya. — ~Nancy~ Mom to Emily 2/14/00 and Wally 1/13/84 Visit my webpage: http://www.geocities.com/NLBader63/intro.html
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> > Ignoring is best. > Does that work with your friends? Whaddaya means you don’t HAVE any!??
I usually ignore idiots that post in these groups, too. I just couldn’t resist yours, though. <G> > If you can, take him to a separate area in your > house where he can have his tantrum, yet not subject you to listening > to all the screaming. A friend of mine had a boy that would throw > himself down and kick and scream. She simply walked around or over him > to get whatever it was that she needed to do, done. I used to be > amazed, but at the time I had no kids myself <g> > And I know it made you feel sick and ill inside and "wrong", didn’t > it!!!?
Uhm, no, it made me want to put him in his room because his screaming was driving me crazy. I was amazed she had learned how to tune it out. > Ever wonder why?
Not at all. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In many parent’s lives can come a time when shopping and eating out > become things you don’t do much of because of this phase. We can’t > really give up on grocery shopping, though If it happens, you can > always just have your DH stay home with him while you do the shopping. > If that isn’t an option for you, then you can try to determine if his > tantrums are precipitated by him being hungry, tired, or over- > stimulated. If that’s the case you can go shopping after he’s eaten, > or take a small snack with you. Go shopping after his nap so he’s well- > rested. Try to avoid shopping after an already busy day for him, and > you. > Avoidance of learning is cured by… learning. > Steve
Yep, and if your child can’t manage to be in public for a short time period of say, 6 months average until they are better equipped to do so, there is not going to be any lasting damage. — ~Nancy~ Mom to Emily 2/14/00 and Wally 1/13/84 Visit my webpage: http://www.geocities.com/NLBader63/intro.html
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> Ignoring is best.
Does that work with your friends? Whaddaya means you don’t HAVE any!?? > If you can, take him to a separate area in your > house where he can have his tantrum, yet not subject you to listening > to all the screaming. A friend of mine had a boy that would throw > himself down and kick and scream. She simply walked around or over him > to get whatever it was that she needed to do, done. I used to be > amazed, but at the time I had no kids myself <g>
And I know it made you feel sick and ill inside and "wrong", didn’t it!!!? Ever wonder why? > In many parent’s lives can come a time when shopping and eating out > become things you don’t do much of because of this phase. We can’t > really give up on grocery shopping, though If it happens, you can > always just have your DH stay home with him while you do the shopping. > If that isn’t an option for you, then you can try to determine if his > tantrums are precipitated by him being hungry, tired, or over- > stimulated. If that’s the case you can go shopping after he’s eaten, > or take a small snack with you. Go shopping after his nap so he’s well- > rested. Try to avoid shopping after an already busy day for him, and > you.
Avoidance of learning is cured by… learning. Steve
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> good point — the primary reason for unruly obnoxious kids is lazy parents > — who don’t do what you and the previous poster are suggesting.
Now THAT’S obnoxious overbearing bullshit if I ever heard it!! After they are done treating their kids like shit you say that if that doesn’t really WORK just to BEAT them harder!! You’re insane. > In the > early years, it is often inconvenient but nevertheless vital to get off > our dead asses and follow through — even when it means disrupting our > schedules etc etc
Gee, beating your kids is just SO much work (compared to meeting their needs in the FIRST place, of course!!) > the effort invested as demonstrated here will have big payoff for years– > it is so much easier to civilize pre-schoolers than to neglect that and > try to deal with major obnox behavior in older kids and teens.
YOU have it BACKWARDS!!: What you REALLY don’t get is that attempting to "civilize", as you say, little kids is what makes them want to hurt you or kill you when they’re your size!! Instead YOU’RE the one who needs to be "civilized"!! Steve
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > it is so much easier to civilize pre-schoolers than to neglect that and > > try to deal with major obnox behavior in older kids and teens. > Well, I certainly hope so. He sure can be obnoxious now, at only > four :-} Seriously, he’s a pretty good kid, most of the time — > save when he’s missed his afternoon nap. Then he’s hell on wheels. > there is also ebb and flow — kids typically go through stages of being > difficult and consolidation stages where they are easier to live with — > of course some kids are ALWAYS relatively easy to live with and others > more challenging — but just when you think you have succeeded as a > parent, they are likely to enter a new stage of growth — the swings are > about every six months when they are little — and every year or so when > they are older. All this is well documented in Illg and Ames books on > child development — which is well worth having [and often reassuring]
Yes, all the western child-"abusing" books read like this, I bet they had a similar book for black slaves which sold a treat at the slave auctions in the Carolinas a few centuries back. When you push a spring it pushes back, and as it gets bigger it pushes back harder!! So don’t push. Steve
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> FWIW > When my son liked to throw fits, between 18 mos and 2.5 years, I would leave the > room if possible and shut the door behind me. If I was somewhere like the > kitchen, I would stop what I was doing, pick him up and put him in his bed and > shut the door when I left. I would not speak to him until he had finished his > fit and if he came out before he was finished his spell, I would put him back in > bed without saying a word, always shutting the door behind me (both so I didnt > have to listen to it, and so that he felt a little more lonely when he acted > up) The fits got further apart and most definatly became shorter, especially > when there were kids playing outside his room, or something going on like > dinner, or snacks.
He was beginning the process of learning that he would NEVER be treated properly by you or anyone like you. It takes a while to give up on your parents ever being human beings. Is he done yet? > Every kid is different, but that seemed to work with him. > As far as going out goes, if he had a fit while we were out. We’d take a walk > to the bathroom (somewhere quite where you wont get the whispers about your > horrible child and parenting) and sit there until he was finished.
Ewww, how EMBARRASSING for you to be seen not responding to your child!! Ewwww. > or move out > to the car. Put him in his carseat, close the doors so you cant hear him and > watch him from the outside of the car. The yelling seemed to get boring for him > very quickly. Again, this was done without saying a word or acknowledging the > fact that he was doing this. > nicole
They used to have a box for that in concentration camps. > ps- this was done for unreasonable conduct. if he was genuinly upset over > something reasonable, we’d go somewhere and talk about it, well I’d talk quietly > and eventually he’d listen.
You mean when you FINALLY took the TIME to find out that there WAS a reason for his behavior, that then you were able to finally listen to HIM!!! It amuses me how parents turn this all around, if it wasn’t so sad. > Also, I found that his temper was worse when he > needed a snack.
Gee, let him stuff his anger for YOU NOT treating him as a PERSON with FOOD!! With a mother like you he’ll be as big as a house! Steve
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> What I found worked relatively well was being totally consistent and not > rewarding the snit fits. If kids get attention, even negative attention, > for the behaviour, it reinforces tantrums (i.e. they have what they want, > mom focused on them to the exclusion of everything else, even if poor mom > is doing nothing more than pleading with them to behave). Either walk > away from the kid while he is throwing the tantrum and ignore it > completely, or immediately cart him into his room, put him on his bed, > and leave, telling him he can come out when he is ready to stop. Most > kids really hate this (both being ignored and being stuck in their boring > room alone) and get the idea quick that they aren’t getting winning the > war by throwing a tantrum.
"Winning" over your child merely makes them hate you and makes them defer vengeance till later and makes them nurse an emotional wound and grow their hate bigger inside. If you are truly mature and not insecure then you don’t NEED to "WIN" over your own child. If you REALLY love them then you don’t want them to waste their life hating you when there are so many better things to do with their lives. So you find a way BOTH for them to win and for you to get done what you need to do. Sometimes that is making it easy for them to get what they want while you’re doing something else in the same room. It takes a little more time, but treating them like you would have to treat a intelligent dependent adult to get along with them works far better than any ridiculous "winning". > My oldest used to throw amazing snits when I was trying to dress him and > I spent a lot of time trying to reason with him, yell at him, you name it > (I really enjoyed being kicked repeatedly while I struggled to get his > pants on). Finally, I just started walking out of the room, telling him > I’d be back when he stopped kicking and screaming – and I’d hear a > panicked voice saying, don’t go, I’ll stop!!
Sounds like he felt he wasn’t getting enough attention or touching from you. That was a time to comfort him and teach him things, like how to dress himself and for him to show off to you for your approval. You blew it, bigtime. > It is harder with public tantrums, since they can be a function of a kid > being stressed out – tired, hungry, overstimulated. And it can be > embarrassing (I have just stood there silently beside a kid pitching a > fit and let it runs its course – other shoppers probably thought I was a > nutbar). However, the usual drill is that we go home if a child can’t > behave – no treats, no more shopping, no post shopping visit to the park, > no nothing – HOME.
Yes, if you’re emotionally DEAD inside and embarrassed for your IMAGE then it would perhaps be better to leave than to beat your child. But that’s still a singularly ineffective and unimaginative way to handle it. A child stops crying when they are listened to!! They ONLY cry UNTIL they are listened to!!: SO: Get the fuck down on your knees and look your child in the face and inquire what is wrong, like you would do for any adult in your care who was devastated that they had needs and nobody was treating them as if they even existed as a PERSON!! If you were dragged everywhere by a giant who wouldn’t relate to you as an equal what in the fuck would YOU do? I’ll TELL you what you’d do, the SAME DAMNED THING!! Parents can never grasp this, that "child"-ish behavior comes NOT from thechild being young, BUT FROM THE SHITTY WAY THEY’RE BEING TREATED by adults concerned mostly about THEIR convenience and their IMAGE!! > Very hard to follow through on, since sometimes you > just have to get those groceries, but I have cut trips short and gone > straight home (can’t say that I wasn’t FUMING at the inconvenience, but > what are you going to do?) Try again another day when kid is fed, rested > and has been told in advance what the rules are.
Rules, and all that go with them, merely humiliate and offend, and sensible people don’t do that. It’s a good idea to talk in advance with him about what you need to do and what will happen if you don’t so he can participate by helping. He can help, which all kids of all ages love to do!! They want to be a real part of your life, and they welcome it. At the same time it is HIS day at the store as well, so you should make room for him, ask him what he wants to have or eat and help him find it, and hold it, and make him feel he is doing what you’re doing. > For my 3 kids, the peak for tantrums has actually been closer to age 3 (3 > 1/2 for my middle child). Serious business testing of mom, or what. > Mary G.
Serious business of trying to get actual humane treatment out of an idiot like YOU, you mean!!! Steve
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>I’m in need of opinions and suggestions on how to effectively handle temper >tantrums in my soon-to-be 2 year old. He’s been having them since he was >just over one, and they have been getting much worse and more frequent >lately. This is not surprising, since his newest sister is only two months >old and I think he is just now displaying jealousy towards her, and needing >my attention much more.
Sounds like a reasonable guess about the cause. Suggestion: Read Siblings without Rivalry, by Faber and Mazlish. >(he’s been quite good up till now) I am trying to >compensate as much as possible by reading books to him >while I’m feeding her and playing with him whenever I get >the chance.
Good so far, try one on one time when the baby is asleep and try some *big boy* stuff that she can’t do, but don’t make it that he is a *big boy,* but describe the things he can do that babies can’t do. *you picked up all your toys.* *you ride your tricycle all over the place* "the baby can’t play with those yet. she is too little" Acknowledge his feelings too. Actually say them out loud *you don’t like the fact that I am spending so much time with the baby"* *you wish I would send her back sometimes* *you are really mad* If the baby is getting into his toys, try setting up the playpen and letting him do some activity inside it that she can’t do and giving her floor time near him. Point out when she smiles at him (cause she will probably smile at him before she smiles at you) >However, there are still things that I need to get done, >and it seems like whenever I am busy with something >ther than him, this is when he wants to be picked up.
This is very typical.. He knows that you are busy so that is when he wants you to pay attention. If the activity is one you can involve him in, try to do that. Two year olds love sorting laundry and helping with the dishes or sweeping. You might even get him a broom and dust pan his own size to help with. And make sure you tell him when he is doing a good job. *You swept that up and didn’t drop any of it when you carried it to the wastebasket* or *You found the pairs of socks that belonged to daddy* >I just can’t walk around with him in my arms all day.
No, but you might try, picking him up for a moment, giving him a big hug and getting him involved in some solitary play activity Have something available like playdoh perhaps that will keep him busy for a while. >Getting back to the original question…He has probably ten or more tantrums >a day, and they result from things like me saying "No" or "don’t touch",
Try to phrase these *nos* positively instead.. *Walk* instead of *no, don’t run.* *come play with the ball* instead of *no, don’t touch the vase* >not picking him up when he’s standing there with outstretched arms
try picking him up and giving him a hug and then distracting him with some very fun activity, something that he likes and that may keep him occupied for a while on his own (don’t expect too long though) >or when he wants to eat (for example) a chocolate bar just >before lunch and I say "not now, we’re going to eat lunch first"
Try offering a nutritious snack that you don’t care if he eats before lunch because it is part of a good lunch.. Try yogurt for example. If you are making lunch, have him help cut up vegetables or put bread in the toaster or help stir the pot while it is cooling with your supervision. > it’s guaranteed that in two seconds I’m going to have a >screaming, thrashing toddler lying on the floor throwing a >fit.
Yep, that’s true. Let him do as much as he can for himself and that may lessen this. Give him language too and that may help. Keep *nos* to a minimum too. >I know that ignoring these fits is probably what is best, but it gets >extremely draining and frustrating for me as well when I have to listen to >it most of the day. Not to mention the fact that I have all but given up >going out of the house with him for fear of the dreaded screaming fit in the >grocery store. Any help would be appreciated….Thanks in advance!
You had some good advice on ignoring the tantrums both in and out of the house.. When he tantrums, first, say *You are very angry* then pick him up, hug him and take him to a place where he can safely be ignored.. Let him come back out and join you after the tantrum is over and try to stay calm when he is having it.. If you do go out and he has a tantrum, pick him up and take him home, leaving the errand undone so that he understand that he can’t go out to the store or playlot when he has these fits.. Try to make errands fun by talking to him in the store and involving him in whatever you are doing.. He will learn language and you both will enjoy the trip more if you can look at it from a child’s pov instead of trying to get it done quickly.. Untime yourself as much as possible, go by his and yours and the baby’s body clocks instead of your watch. Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. source unknown
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> it is so much easier to civilize pre-schoolers than to neglect that and > try to deal with major obnox behavior in older kids and teens.
Well, I certainly hope so. He sure can be obnoxious now, at only four :-} Seriously, he’s a pretty good kid, most of the time — save when he’s missed his afternoon nap. Then he’s hell on wheels.
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> > it is so much easier to civilize pre-schoolers than to neglect that and > try to deal with major obnox behavior in older kids and teens. > Well, I certainly hope so. He sure can be obnoxious now, at only > four :-} Seriously, he’s a pretty good kid, most of the time — > save when he’s missed his afternoon nap. Then he’s hell on wheels.
there is also ebb and flow — kids typically go through stages of being difficult and consolidation stages where they are easier to live with — of course some kids are ALWAYS relatively easy to live with and others more challenging — but just when you think you have succeeded as a parent, they are likely to enter a new stage of growth — the swings are about every six months when they are little — and every year or so when they are older. All this is well documented in Illg and Ames books on child development — which is well worth having [and often reassuring]
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m in need of opinions and suggestions on how to effectively handle temper > tantrums in my soon-to-be 2 year old. He’s been having them since he was > just over one, and they have been getting much worse and more frequent > lately. This is not surprising, since his newest sister is only two months > old and I think he is just now displaying jealousy towards her, and needing > my attention much more. (he’s been quite good up till now) I am trying to > compensate as much as possible by reading books to him while I’m feeding her > and playing with him whenever I get the chance. However, there are still > things that I need to get done, and it seems like whenever I am busy with > something other than him, this is when he wants to be picked up. I just > can’t walk around with him in my arms all day.
Imo, this is a separate issue for you. Can you enlist your DH’s assistance during these times? If his daddy is paying attention to him while you are taking care of your infant, it will take stress off of you, give your toddler the attention he seeks, and give him and your DH some bonding time together. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Getting back to the original question…He has probably ten or more tantrums > a day, and they result from things like me saying "No" or "don’t touch", not > picking him up when he’s standing there with outstretched arms, or when he > wants to eat (for example) a chocolate bar just before lunch and I say "not > now, we’re going to eat lunch first" it’s guaranteed that in two seconds I’m > going to have a screaming, thrashing toddler lying on the floor throwing a > fit. > I know that ignoring these fits is probably what is best, but it gets > extremely draining and frustrating for me as well when I have to listen to > it most of the day.
Ignoring is best. If you can, take him to a separate area in your house where he can have his tantrum, yet not subject you to listening to all the screaming. A friend of mine had a boy that would throw himself down and kick and scream. She simply walked around or over him to get whatever it was that she needed to do, done. I used to be amazed, but at the time I had no kids myself <g> Not to mention the fact that I have all but given up > going out of the house with him for fear of the dreaded screaming fit in the > grocery store. Any help would be appreciated….Thanks in advance!
In many parent’s lives can come a time when shopping and eating out become things you don’t do much of because of this phase. We can’t really give up on grocery shopping, though If it happens, you can always just have your DH stay home with him while you do the shopping. If that isn’t an option for you, then you can try to determine if his tantrums are precipitated by him being hungry, tired, or over- stimulated. If that’s the case you can go shopping after he’s eaten, or take a small snack with you. Go shopping after his nap so he’s well- rested. Try to avoid shopping after an already busy day for him, and you. > ….Charlene > SD Kaitlin (11) BD Danielle (7) BS James (1.5) > Courtney Leigh – Born Nov.6/00 > **Come check out my family!! > http://family.krueger.ws/charlene > www.heartwarmer.net
– ~Nancy~ Mom to Emily 2/14/00 and Wally 1/13/84 Visit my webpage: http://www.geocities.com/NLBader63/intro.html
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It is harder with public tantrums, since they can be a function of a kid > being stressed out – tired, hungry, overstimulated. And it can be > embarrassing (I have just stood there silently beside a kid pitching a > fit and let it runs its course – other shoppers probably thought I was a > nutbar). However, the usual drill is that we go home if a child can’t > behave – no treats, no more shopping, no post shopping visit to the park, > no nothing – HOME. Very hard to follow through on, since sometimes you > just have to get those groceries, but I have cut trips short and gone > straight home (can’t say that I wasn’t FUMING at the inconvenience, but > what are you going to do?) Try again another day when kid is fed, rested > and has been told in advance what the rules are. > The attitude that we take is that the most important priority, at all > times, (ok, second to "life and limb") is learning to be civilized. > And so, if training the boy to be civilized means that some other > thing doesn’t get done (like groceries), well, that’s just an > unavoidable consequence of our choice to make socialization job one.
good point — the primary reason for unruly obnoxious kids is lazy parents — who don’t do what you and the previous poster are suggesting. In the early years, it is often inconvenient but nevertheless vital to get off our dead asses and follow through — even when it means disrupting our schedules etc etc the effort invested as demonstrated here will have big payoff for years– it is so much easier to civilize pre-schoolers than to neglect that and try to deal with major obnox behavior in older kids and teens. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> That also means that we plan as far in advance as possible to permit > adding "obedience lessons" into our routines without totally > jeapordizing, for instance, airline schedules. > In practice, this means that when we are planning an airplane trip, we > plan to arrive at the airport about an hour early. (this is a piece > of cake so far, since he enjoys air travel so much that he has been > unfailingly perfectly behaved, but there’s always a first time.) That > leaves us time to get ice cream, or play in the play area, and still > leaves us with something tangible and close at hand that we can withold > as punishment, should the need arise. > I don’t know if I would have the guts to say "if you don’t behave, > we’re going home right now, and we WON’T go to Grandma’s house, and > you WON’T get to go to the beach, etc". We’ve done this enough with > outings closer to home that (1) I think the boy wouldn’t dare push > things that far and (2) I think I’d be bound to follow through. Don’t > write checks you can’t pay…
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> It is harder with public tantrums, since they can be a function of a kid > being stressed out – tired, hungry, overstimulated. And it can be > embarrassing (I have just stood there silently beside a kid pitching a > fit and let it runs its course – other shoppers probably thought I was a > nutbar). However, the usual drill is that we go home if a child can’t > behave – no treats, no more shopping, no post shopping visit to the park, > no nothing – HOME. Very hard to follow through on, since sometimes you > just have to get those groceries, but I have cut trips short and gone > straight home (can’t say that I wasn’t FUMING at the inconvenience, but > what are you going to do?) Try again another day when kid is fed, rested > and has been told in advance what the rules are.
The attitude that we take is that the most important priority, at all times, (ok, second to "life and limb") is learning to be civilized. And so, if training the boy to be civilized means that some other thing doesn’t get done (like groceries), well, that’s just an unavoidable consequence of our choice to make socialization job one. That also means that we plan as far in advance as possible to permit adding "obedience lessons" into our routines without totally jeapordizing, for instance, airline schedules. In practice, this means that when we are planning an airplane trip, we plan to arrive at the airport about an hour early. (this is a piece of cake so far, since he enjoys air travel so much that he has been unfailingly perfectly behaved, but there’s always a first time.) That leaves us time to get ice cream, or play in the play area, and still leaves us with something tangible and close at hand that we can withold as punishment, should the need arise. I don’t know if I would have the guts to say "if you don’t behave, we’re going home right now, and we WON’T go to Grandma’s house, and you WON’T get to go to the beach, etc". We’ve done this enough with outings closer to home that (1) I think the boy wouldn’t dare push things that far and (2) I think I’d be bound to follow through. Don’t write checks you can’t pay…
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What I found worked relatively well was being totally consistent and not rewarding the snit fits. If kids get attention, even negative attention, for the behaviour, it reinforces tantrums (i.e. they have what they want, mom focused on them to the exclusion of everything else, even if poor mom is doing nothing more than pleading with them to behave). Either walk away from the kid while he is throwing the tantrum and ignore it completely, or immediately cart him into his room, put him on his bed, and leave, telling him he can come out when he is ready to stop. Most kids really hate this (both being ignored and being stuck in their boring room alone) and get the idea quick that they aren’t getting winning the war by throwing a tantrum. My oldest used to throw amazing snits when I was trying to dress him and I spent a lot of time trying to reason with him, yell at him, you name it (I really enjoyed being kicked repeatedly while I struggled to get his pants on). Finally, I just started walking out of the room, telling him I’d be back when he stopped kicking and screaming – and I’d hear a panicked voice saying, don’t go, I’ll stop!! It is harder with public tantrums, since they can be a function of a kid being stressed out – tired, hungry, overstimulated. And it can be embarrassing (I have just stood there silently beside a kid pitching a fit and let it runs its course – other shoppers probably thought I was a nutbar). However, the usual drill is that we go home if a child can’t behave – no treats, no more shopping, no post shopping visit to the park, no nothing – HOME. Very hard to follow through on, since sometimes you just have to get those groceries, but I have cut trips short and gone straight home (can’t say that I wasn’t FUMING at the inconvenience, but what are you going to do?) Try again another day when kid is fed, rested and has been told in advance what the rules are. For my 3 kids, the peak for tantrums has actually been closer to age 3 (3 1/2 for my middle child). Serious business testing of mom, or what. Mary G.
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When Charlotte does that we put her in her room till she calms down. I know exactly what you’re talking about. Charlotte has fits for the same reasons you mentioned – cos she can’t have ice cream for lunch, a lollipop the minute she wakes up, or paint *right now*, etc…It’s very frustrating and gives me a headache. It has gotten better though as she’s able to express herself a bit more. Hang in there. Later, Sophie mom to Charlotte (2.6 yrs) and Patrick (13 months)
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FWIW When my son liked to throw fits, between 18 mos and 2.5 years, I would leave the room if possible and shut the door behind me. If I was somewhere like the kitchen, I would stop what I was doing, pick him up and put him in his bed and shut the door when I left. I would not speak to him until he had finished his fit and if he came out before he was finished his spell, I would put him back in bed without saying a word, always shutting the door behind me (both so I didnt have to listen to it, and so that he felt a little more lonely when he acted up) The fits got further apart and most definatly became shorter, especially when there were kids playing outside his room, or something going on like dinner, or snacks. Every kid is different, but that seemed to work with him. As far as going out goes, if he had a fit while we were out. We’d take a walk to the bathroom (somewhere quite where you wont get the whispers about your horrible child and parenting) and sit there until he was finished. or move out to the car. Put him in his carseat, close the doors so you cant hear him and watch him from the outside of the car. The yelling seemed to get boring for him very quickly. Again, this was done without saying a word or acknowledging the fact that he was doing this. nicole ps- this was done for unreasonable conduct. if he was genuinly upset over something reasonable, we’d go somewhere and talk about it, well I’d talk quietly and eventually he’d listen. Also, I found that his temper was worse when he needed a snack. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’m in need of opinions and suggestions on how to effectively handle temper > tantrums in my soon-to-be 2 year old. He’s been having them since he was > just over one, and they have been getting much worse and more frequent > lately. This is not surprising, since his newest sister is only two months > old and I think he is just now displaying jealousy towards her, and needing > my attention much more. (he’s been quite good up till now) I am trying to > compensate as much as possible by reading books to him while I’m feeding her > and playing with him whenever I get the chance. However, there are still > things that I need to get done, and it seems like whenever I am busy with > something other than him, this is when he wants to be picked up. I just > can’t walk around with him in my arms all day. > Getting back to the original question…He has probably ten or more tantrums > a day, and they result from things like me saying "No" or "don’t touch", not > picking him up when he’s standing there with outstretched arms, or when he > wants to eat (for example) a chocolate bar just before lunch and I say "not > now, we’re going to eat lunch first" it’s guaranteed that in two seconds I’m > going to have a screaming, thrashing toddler lying on the floor throwing a > fit. > I know that ignoring these fits is probably what is best, but it gets > extremely draining and frustrating for me as well when I have to listen to > it most of the day. Not to mention the fact that I have all but given up > going out of the house with him for fear of the dreaded screaming fit in the > grocery store. Any help would be appreciated….Thanks in advance! > — > ….Charlene > SD Kaitlin (11) BD Danielle (7) BS James (1.5) > Courtney Leigh – Born Nov.6/00 > **Come check out my family!! > http://family.krueger.ws/charlene > www.heartwarmer.net
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I’m in need of opinions and suggestions on how to effectively handle temper tantrums in my soon-to-be 2 year old. He’s been having them since he was just over one, and they have been getting much worse and more frequent lately. This is not surprising, since his newest sister is only two months old and I think he is just now displaying jealousy towards her, and needing my attention much more. (he’s been quite good up till now) I am trying to compensate as much as possible by reading books to him while I’m feeding her and playing with him whenever I get the chance. However, there are still things that I need to get done, and it seems like whenever I am busy with something other than him, this is when he wants to be picked up. I just can’t walk around with him in my arms all day. Getting back to the original question…He has probably ten or more tantrums a day, and they result from things like me saying "No" or "don’t touch", not picking him up when he’s standing there with outstretched arms, or when he wants to eat (for example) a chocolate bar just before lunch and I say "not now, we’re going to eat lunch first" it’s guaranteed that in two seconds I’m going to have a screaming, thrashing toddler lying on the floor throwing a fit. I know that ignoring these fits is probably what is best, but it gets extremely draining and frustrating for me as well when I have to listen to it most of the day. Not to mention the fact that I have all but given up going out of the house with him for fear of the dreaded screaming fit in the grocery store. Any help would be appreciated….Thanks in advance! — ….Charlene SD Kaitlin (11) BD Danielle (7) BS James (1.5) Courtney Leigh – Born Nov.6/00 **Come check out my family!! http://family.krueger.ws/charlene www.heartwarmer.net
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