Pure Parents

Question:

I do not see her espousing your "New" parenting. I see her using her own judgment and sense to make a decision about her child. Pretty reasonable thing to do. Stephanie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <ckmW4.21718 >We just went through a similar thing with my 4 year old.  He > would stay >dry/clean away from home, but at home, he was wetting and > soiling several >times a day.  We tried everything, but then I realized that it > was a control >thing, and I decided to bow out.  I told him that I didn’t want > to >participate, and if he wet he was to change if he wanted to, > and not to tell >me.  I would help him clean up the poops, but hard as it was > for me, I did >not comment.  I stopped making him flush the toilet or wash his > hands.  It >worked in 3 days.  Now we have added toilet flushing into the > routine, and >when he has mastered that I’ll add hand washing back in. >Sarah > Sarah, you’ve got to be kidding me.  And you seem so nice. > What your young son (4 is not little) is doing is trying to get > your attention.  It works. When you ignore him, he stops. > As he gets older, this behaviour will act out as marijuana use, > unmarried sex and other perversities.  Don’t wait for "new" > parenting to provied an answer. > When your child wants attention, give him all of it…..with a > pop in the ass or a firm hold to the jaw.  He gets attention; > you get results.  Everybody wins.  It is so simple it is moronic. > Ben > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Before you buy.

Response:

>When your child wants attention, give him all of it…..with a >pop in the ass or a firm hold to the jaw.  He gets attention; >you get results.  Everybody wins.  It is so simple it is moronic.

You got that right! LOL!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Maybe if you got off the internet and helped her >out with those 9 kids some, she’d *have* time to play on the >internet alittle >AND then you’d both have enough patience with a 4 y/o having >potty training >problems so that you wouldn’t feel the need to *knock the fuck* >out of him. >I have a brain tumor which has "allowed" me to time, between >chemo, pitching up and CatScans, to wander the net.  What’s your >excuse?

I’m sorry to hear about that, but I don’t *need* an excuse to wander the net. No one does. And I personally dislike your attitude on the matter…….whether it’s directed at the other posters, me or your wife. You’re the one who insinuated that another poster was spending too much time on the internet, not me. I merely reacted to it, that’s all. >It’s a thought. >Not much of one.

It’s *more* of a thought than *knocking the fuck* out of a 4 year old with potty training problems though, IMO. Josie

Response:

Reply e-mailed. Josie writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Josie, do you use NFP? I am against birth control that alters your hormones >(because they prevent implantation and in my heart that is abortion). I can >not figure out how to use NFP for myself. >Marie

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Interesting children’s names.  Porn/Rock stars huh?….. Poor Trolls, they get such a bad name when they used to be a really great Scandinavian Fairy Tale, not some dumb ass twit who pulls his pud everytime he gets a reaction. Sarah

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->You *are* kidding, aren’t you? You can’t really mean this. If > you do, I’m >hoping that you don’t have children. > Matter of fact, my wife (LeeAnn) and I have nine children – > Axel, Wilburn, Tommy, Joe, Andy, Steven, Derek, pamela and Iva. > WE don’t have time for all the "goody goody" remedies offered on > this group.  We hit, spank and do whatever to get their > attention and keep them inline. > We aren’t from your yuppie world of 1 1/2 children per family, > of birth control and abortions.  I was brought up by a loving > father who would knock the beejesus out of me when I needed it. > It worked and it still works. > Ben > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

We just went through a similar thing with my 4 year old.  He would stay dry/clean away from home, but at home, he was wetting and soiling several times a day.  We tried everything, but then I realized that it was a control thing, and I decided to bow out.  I told him that I didn’t want to participate, and if he wet he was to change if he wanted to, and not to tell me.  I would help him clean up the poops, but hard as it was for me, I did not comment.  I stopped making him flush the toilet or wash his hands.  It worked in 3 days.  Now we have added toilet flushing into the routine, and when he has mastered that I’ll add hand washing back in. Sarah

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> X-No-Archive:Yes SNIP> > It’s starting to put tension between my wife and I as well. I’m out of > ideas. Anybody else got any resources I can turn to? All the web searches > turn up is some 40 dollar quack sounding kit that seems aimed at much > younger children. What to do for a child who was trained, then regressed > with a stubborn streak? > If you’ve got a suggestion, I’m listening to all ideas. I’d hate to think > that the counselors last resort suggestion to ‘beat it out of him’ is the > only thing left. > Red Rooster

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Yes it worked exactly right and produced you. Ya filthy thing.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->You *are* kidding, aren’t you? You can’t really mean this. If >you do, I’m >hoping that you don’t have children. >Matter of fact, my wife (LeeAnn) and I have nine children – >Axel, Wilburn, Tommy, Joe, Andy, Steven, Derek, pamela and Iva. >WE don’t have time for all the "goody goody" remedies offered on >this group.  We hit, spank and do whatever to get their >attention and keep them inline. >We aren’t from your yuppie world of 1 1/2 children per family, >of birth control and abortions.  I was brought up by a loving >father who would knock the beejesus out of me when I needed it. >It worked and it still works. >Ben >* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * >The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I agree but you must let this go completely for awhile until hopefully he forgets the whole neurosis that has surrounded it. Just put the diapers back on and forget all about it for awhile and also apologize to him for making such a big deal out of it and let him know you are confident in him that he will  be fine and will do ok when he’s ready and promise you won’t bring it up again, then erase whatever humor or fascination you had in it right out of your mind. Forget the toilet, use the potty chair, in the bathroom, have him shut the door when he goes in and leave the whole scene completely and totally forget about what he’s doing in there. NO BIGGIE. I would also explain that there are only two choices, the toilet or the diaper and that everyone eventually uses the toilet there’s nothing to fear about it but if he’s scared he can use the potty instead. There should be no requirement whatsoever that he announce when he has to go to the bathroom or that he be followed in there or have to report about it after and absolutely no element of ridicule towards him about this. It’s his business how he handles it. If he needs to wear diapers for awhile more so what, it’s definitely not his fault that he’s so freaked out by the whole thing, it’s because it’s been a huge ordeal and it sounds like you’ve ridiculed him over it and now he can’t perform. I wouldn’t make him clean it up either, just make sure that there is no opportunity for an accident to happen, for his sake, he shouldn’t have to go through anything else with this. Sorry to be so blunt but let him be! My son has never had an accident and as far as I know didn’t want to, he was glad to be rid of the diaper and did not want to go back. He has always had his privacy and I’ve never once asked him for any reason if he had to go to the bathroom or mentioned anything about it. He just learned what to do and goes. There’s no big deal about it, it’s just a function, why bother analysing it at all or putting some kind of thing on him that he’s a ‘weird kid’ in this area, it’s just way too much focus on it and I think you are finding something oddly humorous about it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >First stop pressuring him to go.  Don’t put him on the toilet. >Don’t remind him. >Put him back in diapers. Let him know that when he is ready >to use the toilet he can try *big boy* pants again.  No pullups. >If he does try pants and still soils, make him responsible for >cleaning himself and the pants up and changing himself.  Help >as little as you possibly can since it is his choice in either case >to go where he wants to go. >Be positive and encouraging once he does start to go in the toilet >himself.  Let him know that you know he can and will take over this >function when he is ready and he will probably do it fairly quickly. >Dorothy >X-No-Archive:Yes >I guess the subject line says it all. I’ve got a 4 year old son, Michael, >who absolutely refuses toilet training. At the age of about 30 months he >decided after much encouragement to use the potty instead of diaper or pull >up pants. He quickly progressed in his ability and willingness to let us >know when the need arose and would proudly run ahead to the bathroom to take >care of business. All was going well. >Then disaster struck. We had some plumbing work done and the toilet was >uprooted from its spot and replaced with a new one. My son was very curious >about the large hole in the floor where the pipe flange was and jabbered on >quite excitedly about it. He wasn’t at all fearful. The next day, he refused >to use the new toilet, and regressed totally from that day on.  It looked >substantially different, and he started trying to convey some fear >concerning the hole in the floor, but wasn’t able to elaborate much on >exactly what his concern was. >We moved from that residence about a month later and have been in our new >home since Sept. 99. To this day Michael has refused every effort to use the >toilet. We’ve tried various incentive schemes like a Matchbox car, stars on >a chart, treats, etc. We’ve tried withholding favorite activities. Nothing >is getting any results. Michael doesn’t seem to associate the idea of a >reward from time of explanation until the next toilet event even if it’s >within an hour. >Earlier this year for about two months, my wife and I went to see a >counselor. The counselor assured us that we were doing everything proper and >that it was a control issue with my son. Why and control over what we >haven’t pinned down yet. The counselor spent a grand total of about 20 >minutes over the course of 2 months actually interacting with Michael, so >when he remarked that possibly corporal punishment could be used as a brute >force measure, we were kind of surprised. We cease the counseling. No gain >for the investment. >Now it’s 5 months later, Michael turned 4 in April and still won’t >cooperate. All attempts to put him on the toilet and wait for results yield >nothing but wailing and protest from Michael. Within a short time after >leaving the bathroom he will defecate in his pants, knowing and admitting he >knows that was the purpose of his trip to the bathroom in the first place. >Same deal with asking him to let us know. Five minutes after being told >he’ll show up with a fresh wad of crap in his pants. He has on and off >cooperation about urinating but usually waits till the last possible second >to say anything. >This is one stubborn little kid. The hole in the floor at the old house may >have set this in motion but I feel that this contest of wills is far beyond >any influence from that. It’s really deteriorating the relationship between >my son and I. There are times I have chosen to exclude him from some short >trips out because there would be no easy way to deal with a mess if he >decides to make one. >It’s starting to put tension between my wife and I as well. I’m out of >ideas. Anybody else got any resources I can turn to? All the web searches >turn up is some 40 dollar quack sounding kit that seems aimed at much >younger children. What to do for a child who was trained, then regressed >with a stubborn streak? >If you’ve got a suggestion, I’m listening to all ideas. I’d hate to think >that the counselors last resort suggestion to ‘beat it out of him’ is the >only thing left. >Red Rooster >There is no sound, no cry in all the world >that can be heard unless someone listens .. >source unknown

Response:

>Hey, Josie, wanta bet this is Max in a new identity?  Who would have >thunk he would get tired of playing Mother Hickey?

Now……I kinda wondered this too……but the names of the 9 kids seemed so, well….normal, ya know? LOL Josie

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>Maybe if you got off the internet and helped her >out with those 9 kids some, she’d *have* time to play on the internet alittle >AND then you’d both have enough patience with a 4 y/o having potty training >problems so that you wouldn’t feel the need to *knock the fuck* >out of him.

I have a brain tumor which has "allowed" me to time, between chemo, pitching up and CatScans, to wander the net.  What’s your excuse? >It’s a thought.

Not much of one. Ben * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

In article <ckmW4.21718 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >We just went through a similar thing with my 4 year old.  He would stay >dry/clean away from home, but at home, he was wetting and soiling several >times a day.  We tried everything, but then I realized that it was a control >thing, and I decided to bow out.  I told him that I didn’t want to >participate, and if he wet he was to change if he wanted to, and not to tell >me.  I would help him clean up the poops, but hard as it was for me, I did >not comment.  I stopped making him flush the toilet or wash his hands.  It >worked in 3 days.  Now we have added toilet flushing into the routine, and >when he has mastered that I’ll add hand washing back in. >Sarah

Sarah, you’ve got to be kidding me.  And you seem so nice. What your young son (4 is not little) is doing is trying to get your attention.  It works. When you ignore him, he stops. As he gets older, this behaviour will act out as marijuana use, unmarried sex and other perversities.  Don’t wait for "new" parenting to provied an answer. When your child wants attention, give him all of it…..with a pop in the ass or a firm hold to the jaw.  He gets attention; you get results.  Everybody wins.  It is so simple it is moronic. Ben * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > X-No-Archive:Yes > First stop pressuring him to go.  Don’t put him on the toilet. > Don’t remind him. > Put him back in diapers. Let him know that when he is ready > to use the toilet he can try *big boy* pants again.  No pullups. > If he does try pants and still soils, make him responsible for > cleaning himself and the pants up and changing himself.  Help > as little as you possibly can since it is his choice in either case > to go where he wants to go. > His participation in cleanup consists of screeching and wailing that he > can’t, although he has no problem washing and drying his own hands.

Have you asked him why? This sometimes relates to the PARENT’S mirrored disgust with his excrement, and while excrement is not palatable there are greatly different degrees of revulsion from it among humans based on some not so rational things, often from shames and guilts of their own about excretion and sexuality. I’ve always noted that we often wish our children to do something which they’ve NEVER seen us do, which seems a very peculiar thing to ask of a child. Have you ever taken a dump in front of him? Can you leave off the pressure, poop in front of him a few times for fun and show him there’s nothing to fear? As I said, it might be that he has either a peculiar superstition about the toilet going on in his mind, or that he has a guilt fixation upon excretion, and this may need to be gotten through by going around the usual methods and by extensive communications about this. If you cannot do what I suggested I suspect the problem may be one that is in yourself and your responses as well, and that he is merely a mirror of that in you. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Be positive and encouraging once he does start to go in the toilet > himself.  Let him know that you know he can and will take over this > function when he is ready and he will probably do it fairly quickly. > Michael is well aware that we know he can handle this function. For whatever > reason he is making a deliberate choice not to use the toilet. > Red Rooster

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>You *are* kidding, aren’t you? You can’t really mean this. If you do, I’m >hoping that you don’t have children.

Matter of fact, my wife (LeeAnn) and I have nine children – Axel, Wilburn, Tommy, Joe, Andy, Steven, Derek, pamela and Iva. WE don’t have time for all the "goody goody" remedies offered on this group.  We hit, spank and do whatever to get their attention and keep them inline. We aren’t from your yuppie world of 1 1/2 children per family, of birth control and abortions.  I was brought up by a loving father who would knock the beejesus out of me when I needed it. It worked and it still works. Ben * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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>And I’m hoping he doesn’t have a wife, either. Imagine his >response to an unmade bed or late meal…

LeeAnn and I get along just fine, thank you.  She doesn’t make beds or meals so you can take that 1920’s image and shove it. With nine kids ages 3-25, she hasn’t a whole lot of time to do much Susie Homemaker junk.  Or play on the internet like you. Ben * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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>>And I’m hoping he doesn’t have a wife, either. Imagine his >response to an unmade bed or late meal… >LeeAnn and I get along just fine, thank you.  She doesn’t make >beds or meals so you can take that 1920’s image and shove it. >With nine kids ages 3-25, she hasn’t a whole lot of time to do >much Susie Homemaker junk.  Or play on the internet like you.

I notice that *you* do though. Maybe if you got off the internet and helped her out with those 9 kids some, she’d *have* time to play on the internet alittle AND then you’d both have enough patience with a 4 y/o having potty training problems so that you wouldn’t feel the need to *knock the fuck* out of him. It’s a thought. Josie

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>If you do switch back to diapers, I’d recommend the cloth >variety. Yes, it’s more work for you, but it will be a bit more >uncomfortable for him when he does evacuate in the diaper, which >may encourage a faster switch back to the potty.

Now this may well be true. Everyone that I personally have known who used cloth diapers seemed to have the least trouble of all in potty training……as well as having much success at earlier ages of potty training than most who used disposables did. Who knows? It’s a thought worth considering though. Josie

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->You *are* kidding, aren’t you? You can’t really mean this. If >you do, I’m >hoping that you don’t have children. >Matter of fact, my wife (LeeAnn) and I have nine children – >Axel, Wilburn, Tommy, Joe, Andy, Steven, Derek, pamela and Iva. >WE don’t have time for all the "goody goody" remedies offered on >this group.  We hit, spank and do whatever to get their >attention and keep them inline. >We aren’t from your yuppie world of 1 1/2 children per family, >of birth control and abortions.  I was brought up by a loving >father who would knock the beejesus out of me when I needed it. >It worked and it still works.

Look buddy, I’m about the last damn person to be telling this to. I am (personally) opposed to artificial methods of birth control, extremely opposed to abortion and think that most all of today’s pop-psych babble-babble goody-goody way of raising kids is all crapola. But to *knock the fuck out of* a 4 year old for having problems with potty training is demented, in my opinion. Josie

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Josie, do you use NFP? I am against birth control that alters your hormones (because they prevent implantation and in my heart that is abortion). I can not figure out how to use NFP for myself. Marie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>You *are* kidding, aren’t you? You can’t really mean this. If >you do, I’m >>hoping that you don’t have children. >Matter of fact, my wife (LeeAnn) and I have nine children – >Axel, Wilburn, Tommy, Joe, Andy, Steven, Derek, pamela and Iva. >WE don’t have time for all the "goody goody" remedies offered on >this group.  We hit, spank and do whatever to get their >attention and keep them inline. >We aren’t from your yuppie world of 1 1/2 children per family, >of birth control and abortions.  I was brought up by a loving >father who would knock the beejesus out of me when I needed it. >It worked and it still works. >Look buddy, I’m about the last damn person to be telling this to. I am >(personally) opposed to artificial methods of birth control, extremely opposed >to abortion and think that most all of today’s pop-psych babble-babble >goody-goody way of raising kids is all crapola. But to *knock the fuck out of* >a 4 year old for having problems with potty training is demented, in my >opinion. >Josie

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Your going to get advice like "timeout" or "love him". Do you want to solve the problem or spoil the child? Put the little wanker on the toilet seat and tell him the next time he shits, if it isn’t in the potty water, your going to knock the fuck out of him. Problem solved. Benny * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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>Your going to get advice like "timeout" or "love him". >Do you want to solve the problem or spoil the child? >Put the little wanker on the toilet seat and tell him the next >time he shits, if it isn’t in the potty water, your going to >knock the fuck out of him. >Problem solved.

You *are* kidding, aren’t you? You can’t really mean this. If you do, I’m hoping that you don’t have children. Josie

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Benjamin Malone >Your going to get advice like "timeout" or "love him". >Do you want to solve the problem or spoil the child? >Put the little wanker on the toilet seat and tell him the next >time he shits, if it isn’t in the potty water, your going to >knock the fuck out of him. >Problem solved. >You *are* kidding, aren’t you? You can’t really mean this. If you do, I’m >hoping that you don’t have children.

And I’m hoping he doesn’t have a wife, either. Imagine his response to an unmade bed or late meal… — Be well, Barbara (Julian [7/22/97] and Aurora’s [7/19/99] mom) * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Using physical punishment to potty train a child is abuse and I’d quickly report a parent who spanked for not going to the bathroom. 4 is a little (or alot, really) old to not be potty-trained (if there are no physical or mental disabilities) but that is still no reason to hit. Marie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Your going to get advice like "timeout" or "love him". >Do you want to solve the problem or spoil the child? >Put the little wanker on the toilet seat and tell him the next >time he shits, if it isn’t in the potty water, your going to >knock the fuck out of him. >Problem solved. >Benny >* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * >The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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>What to do for a child who was trained, then regressed >with a stubborn streak? >If you’ve got a suggestion, I’m listening to all ideas.

Have you given any thought to simply putting him back in diapers and letting *him* choose when to go back to going on the toilet? I think you simply may have put too much emphasis on the worth of going in the potty. Essentially, you’ve allowed this to become a power struggle by making an issue of it. I rather suspect that after a month or two back in diapers, he’ll come to the conclusion that he has more power and control if he goes on the potty. If you do switch back to diapers, I’d recommend the cloth variety. Yes, it’s more work for you, but it will be a bit more uncomfortable for him when he does evacuate in the diaper, which may encourage a faster switch back to the potty. — Be well, Barbara (Julian [7/22/97] and Aurora’s [7/19/99] mom) * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > First stop pressuring him to go.  Don’t put him on the toilet. > Don’t remind him. > Put him back in diapers. Let him know that when he is ready > to use the toilet he can try *big boy* pants again.  No pullups. > If he does try pants and still soils, make him responsible for > cleaning himself and the pants up and changing himself.  Help > as little as you possibly can since it is his choice in either case > to go where he wants to go. > Be positive and encouraging once he does start to go in the toilet > himself.  Let him know that you know he can and will take over this > function when he is ready and he will probably do it fairly quickly. > Dorothy

Yes, the death of any genuine test of wills can be effected by ceasing your half of the battle. However, since this is apparently in some response to an event regarding the toilet’s replacement I think you should go out of your way to find out what your child is thinking, and first, to find this out you will have to stop your opposition in any case abd depressurize the situation, which always benefits any such situation anyway. But I’m curious what superstition he has developed about toilets from the hole in the floor and how it relates to his cosmology and beliefs about reality!! Steve

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Have you tried one of the little potties that sit on the floor? Sue B.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> X-No-Archive:Yes > Yes, the death of any genuine test of wills can be effected by ceasing > your half of the battle. > However, since this is apparently in some response to an event regarding > the toilet’s replacement I think you should go out of your way to find > out what your child is thinking, and first, to find this out you will > have to stop your opposition in any case abd depressurize the situation, > which always benefits any such situation anyway. > Michael doesn’t seem inclined to share much with us on this subject. A few > times he said he would go potty at the *old* house. However other inquiries > about the old house get responses that he is much happier with the new > house. His toilet training regression took place at the old house so I don’t > know how strongly he really feels about the place. From his attitude in > other areas, I would have to say his attachment isn’t very much at all. > But I’m curious what superstition he has developed about toilets from > the hole in the floor and how it relates to his cosmology and beliefs > about reality!! > His beliefs never have seemed to be centered around fear. He doesn’t seem > able to verbalize what his thoughts are about it. There sure isn’t any > problem discussing anything else. ‘Seems like he was quite surprised to see > the hole under the potty and for some reason is rejecting the potty because > it has a hole under it that he finds objectionable somehow. We’ve explained > the function of the hole, that we consider it good and that mommy and I > accept the way the toilet works as normal. NO deal. He just isn’t buying > into any of it. > Red Rooster

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