Question:
I totally disagree with Brian! As his mom you have a responcablity to ask the who, why, where, when, what and how regarding your son’s life. WHO are you going to be with (first and last name.) WHY are you going (school dance is self explanitory) WHERE will you be, WHEN are you leaving, and when will you be home (in this case you will be taking him so you know the answer.), WHAT will you be doing (dancing in this case, when going to the mall, or park this is relivant) and HOW will you be getting there and back. Actually going to the dance would be a little smothering if you stayed for the entire dance, but I would understand going in to see how he is behaving 10 minutes before the dance is over. By the way Brian, I was raised with these rules. I sometimes resented them when I was young, but I now know Mom & Dad did it for my own good and I have never doubted their love. And if I had ever told my Mom that she was snooping or being nosy I would not have gone to the dance or anywhere else for about a week. Liz
Response:
Yes, I plan to put my two year old through public education. In fact, she’ll be going to the same schools I did when I was growing up. I’m not saying we should be there every single second of the child’s day. But knowing who their friends are, who their "dates" are, knowing where they’re going and when they’ll be back……that’s pretty important stuff. I agree that you have to have a trusting relationship with the child. But, there are sometimes when a parent has a right to know certain things that are going on in the child’s life. You don’t have to tell me about invasion of the child’s privacy. I had a stepdad who went through all the drawers of my desk, my closet, my trash even. There is a point when a line has to be drawn. But knowing who your kids friends are and who they plan on meeting at a dance isn’t crossing that line. Lisa Mom to Kelsey (2) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This "normal, seventh grade, school sponsored, supervised dance" is a place > where things like rape or drug use can happen. Just because teachers or > other parents are there to chaperone doesn’t mean the kids won’t get into > trouble. I’m not saying all kids. But it does happen. >Tell me honestly, do you plan on putting your two year old through >public education? If school isn’t safe for your child, where is she >going to get educated? >– Brian Ream Kalamazoo, Michigan
Response:
> This "normal, seventh grade, school sponsored, supervised dance" is a place > where things like rape or drug use can happen. Just because teachers or > other parents are there to chaperone doesn’t mean the kids won’t get into > trouble. I’m not saying all kids. But it does happen.
Tell me honestly, do you plan on putting your two year old through public education? If school isn’t safe for your child, where is she going to get educated? — Brian Ream Kalamazoo, Michigan
Response:
"his "normal, seventh grade, school sponsored, supervised dance" is a place where things like rape or drug use can happen. Just because teachers or other parents are there to chaperone doesn’t mean the kids won’t get into trouble. I’m not saying all kids. But it does happen. Lisa Mom to Kelsey (2) " I agree with you that anything is possible..But really, how likely is the above?? I would suggest not very. I would rather my 12 year old attend a chaperoned school dance where I am chauffering, than spend his time home alone after school with nothing to do..(I only say that because the peak time for kids getting into trouble is between 3-6 p.m —when they are old enough to be home alone before the parent gets home from work)…..CHeers<C
Response:
Ya done good. Not every decision will be shared with you, and not every decision will be the right one. But this is the best way to share most of them.
snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve written a nice note to my son. In it I explained > that sometimes I appeared too overprotective and strict, but that it was not > because I didn’t want him to have any fun, it was because I care for him and > want him to be safe and happy. I also said that it was very hard on a > parent to see their child growing into a young adult, and that sometimes we > still try to treat them as babies. I wrote to him that I realized that he > was growing into a young man, and is preparing for the real world in which > he will make his own decisions. I reminded him that there will be many > *other* decisions to be made between here and then, but that we’d take those > decisions one at a time, talk about them, and evaluate the circumstances. I > said that I trusted him, was proud of him, and love him very much and that I > had confidence he would make the right choices for each decision. In the > note I told him he could go to the dance and I would not go, but I would be > there to pick him up on time. > pockets
Response:
>This "normal, seventh grade, school sponsored, supervised dance" is a place >where things like rape or drug use can happen. Just because teachers or >other parents are there to chaperone doesn’t mean the kids won’t get into >trouble. I’m not saying all kids. But it does happen. >Lisa >Mom to Kelsey (2)
While it is wise to be cautious and aware of what might happen…it is crucial to not live life in fear of what lurks in every corner. I for one have the tendency to worry too much…and my children will certainly not benefit from that. As wise and healthy parents we need to put some of our paranoias and allow our children to live life. I am not criticizing you for noting all of the evils that do occur…I am telling myself that I have to remember to keep the balance as a mom. Regards, Debra
Response:
>This is fine for a general philosophy, but the original poster was >talking about a normal, seventh grade, school sponsored, supervised >dance! Her son wasn’t even going with a friend’s mom, she was willing >to drop him off and pick him up. Like I said before, if you can’t >trust your school to chaperone a stupid dance, maybe it’s time for >homeschooling. >– Brian Ream Kalamazoo, Michigan
This "normal, seventh grade, school sponsored, supervised dance" is a place where things like rape or drug use can happen. Just because teachers or other parents are there to chaperone doesn’t mean the kids won’t get into trouble. I’m not saying all kids. But it does happen. Lisa Mom to Kelsey (2)
Response:
> There’s so MUCH that kids are exposed to now that we weren’t when we were > growing up, that it’s completely close-minded to think that 1-they’ll always > make the right decision if they’re left to make them themselves and 2-that > their choices will always be HONORED by those around them.
This is fine for a general philosophy, but the original poster was talking about a normal, seventh grade, school sponsored, supervised dance! Her son wasn’t even going with a friend’s mom, she was willing to drop him off and pick him up. Like I said before, if you can’t trust your school to chaperone a stupid dance, maybe it’s time for homeschooling. — Brian Ream Kalamazoo, Michigan
Response:
Thanks very much Deborah! I think I made the right choice. And even though I may not always know what the right choices are, I have been lucky enough to stumble upon this group and be able to get some feedback in dealing with some of the issues that arise! I realize that different people have different posting styles, and some are more extreme than others. I try to take each post and evaluate its merits and apply it to my situation, hoping that I can come to a solution my son and I are comfortable with. So far, this group has been a great help, and I appreciate the advice! Keep on smilin’ ya’ll! pockets
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->No, I didn’t come here to get abused, called stupid, or anything else. I >came here asking an honest question and looking for helpful suggestions and >comments. >Just to clarify this a little bit: *I* was raised in a cult, and my parents >made EVERY decision for me and my brothers, until the time I was 18 and >moved out. Discipline was harsh and extreme. The dictates of the cult >ruled our every thought and decision, right down to family life. I call >this "trickle-down moralit." We had no holidays or celebrations in common >with the outside world. Any parties or dances were done with members of the >family present: adults, children, relatives, etc. This is the frame of >reference I use sometimes, but try *not* to use. You see, I’m not sure what >*is* normal sometimes. I don’t want to be a harsh parent, and I don’t want >to be too permissive. I want to reach a happy medium. >However, reading both the extremes helps me decide on a happy middle ground. >Due to the responses I have gotten, I’ve been able to reach this comfortable >(I think) medium. I’ve written a nice note to my son. In it I explained >that sometimes I appeared too overprotective and strict, but that it was not >because I didn’t want him to have any fun, it was because I care for him and >want him to be safe and happy. I also said that it was very hard on a >parent to see their child growing into a young adult, and that sometimes we >still try to treat them as babies. I wrote to him that I realized that he >was growing into a young man, and is preparing for the real world in which >he will make his own decisions. I reminded him that there will be many >*other* decisions to be made between here and then, but that we’d take those >decisions one at a time, talk about them, and evaluate the circumstances. I >said that I trusted him, was proud of him, and love him very much and that I >had confidence he would make the right choices for each decision. In the >note I told him he could go to the dance and I would not go, but I would be >there to pick him up on time. >pockets >Hi Pockets, >You came here for support…and support you are getting. Mind you there will >be those who have trouble expressing their concern in an empathic way…take >what you like and leave the rest is my suggestion. >I’d like to pat you on the back for taking a less than postive family backgroud >and choosing to change your history and make a better life for your child. You >seem open to suggestions and willing to ask for help. Two postive qualities. >Your choice of writing a letter shows your determination to have a healthy >relationship with your son and is a valuable lesson forhim. Keep on asking >this group for help…it sounds like you have learned and passed on your lesson >to your son. >Keep up the posive work and my best to you! >(and your son). >Regards, >Debra
Response:
Grreat post Leah…the bottom line is to treat your children with respect…and that includes areas such as right to privacy. There is a fine line that we as parent’s tend to cross. Trusting your kids is great role modeling. And if more parent’s would try and use humor…life would go a lot more smoothly!!! Keep up the good work…:o) Regards, Debra
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >No, I didn’t come here to get abused, called stupid, or anything else. I >came here asking an honest question and looking for helpful suggestions and >comments. >Just to clarify this a little bit: *I* was raised in a cult, and my parents >made EVERY decision for me and my brothers, until the time I was 18 and >moved out. Discipline was harsh and extreme. The dictates of the cult >ruled our every thought and decision, right down to family life. I call >this "trickle-down moralit." We had no holidays or celebrations in common >with the outside world. Any parties or dances were done with members of the >family present: adults, children, relatives, etc. This is the frame of >reference I use sometimes, but try *not* to use. You see, I’m not sure what >*is* normal sometimes. I don’t want to be a harsh parent, and I don’t want >to be too permissive. I want to reach a happy medium. >However, reading both the extremes helps me decide on a happy middle ground. >Due to the responses I have gotten, I’ve been able to reach this comfortable >(I think) medium. I’ve written a nice note to my son. In it I explained >that sometimes I appeared too overprotective and strict, but that it was not >because I didn’t want him to have any fun, it was because I care for him and >want him to be safe and happy. I also said that it was very hard on a >parent to see their child growing into a young adult, and that sometimes we >still try to treat them as babies. I wrote to him that I realized that he >was growing into a young man, and is preparing for the real world in which >he will make his own decisions. I reminded him that there will be many >*other* decisions to be made between here and then, but that we’d take those >decisions one at a time, talk about them, and evaluate the circumstances. I >said that I trusted him, was proud of him, and love him very much and that I >had confidence he would make the right choices for each decision. In the >note I told him he could go to the dance and I would not go, but I would be >there to pick him up on time. >pockets
Hi Pockets, You came here for support…and support you are getting. Mind you there will be those who have trouble expressing their concern in an empathic way…take what you like and leave the rest is my suggestion. I’d like to pat you on the back for taking a less than postive family backgroud and choosing to change your history and make a better life for your child. You seem open to suggestions and willing to ask for help. Two postive qualities. Your choice of writing a letter shows your determination to have a healthy relationship with your son and is a valuable lesson forhim. Keep on asking this group for help…it sounds like you have learned and passed on your lesson to your son. Keep up the posive work and my best to you! (and your son). Regards, Debra
Response:
Yeah, I agree, but anyone who ‘knows’ Hamilton, knows that’s just her style. Sometimes a little pushy, overbearing, etc. Ya have to just get used to it!! I think Leah Adezio’s post gave excellent advice. Not one extreme or the other just a happy medium. I think it is every parent’s right to know where there child is and who they are with whether they are 8 or 18 if they still live at home. I think it is the way you approach it that is important. Dawn (Taylor and Mackenzie’s mom) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >geez… lighten up a little. She came here for suggestions, not to be >abused. >I’m sure there are other ways of getting your message across without being >so aggressive and free with the namecalling. Name a single parent who wasn’t >overprotective of their child, especially their first. >Dawn >> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >> Content-Type: text/plain; >> charset="iso-8859-1" >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> My son has a dance to go to Friday night. He is in 7th grade. He said = >> that he is going to meet a young lady there. The dance is chaperoned by >= >> the school and the parents can go if they like. I asked my son the = >> young lady’s last name.. he didn’t know. I told him to find out. I = >> then asked where she lives, her age, her grade, where he met her, etc. = >> He told me I was snoopy and asked why I had to ask so many questions. I >= >> told him that he is only 12 years old and that while he was living in my >= >> house and I was responsible for him, I could ask all the questions I = >> wanted. He then said that if I go to the dance with him (while hiding = >> out in the corner) he won’t go… Grrrr! He said that I’ll bug him. I = >> told him that I would not say a word to him and that people wouldn’t = >> have to know I was his Mom. Heh. There will be teachers there. Am I = >> being too overprotective? Should I let him go to the dance by himself = >> and pick him up afterwards? > Overprotective isn’t the issue; there is no ‘protection’ involved here. >But it is beyond stupid parenting behavior. Even if it were true that >you have a right to know his every thought and move [do you read his >mail as well?], this would be a self defeating tactic. [and while it >is stupid -- it is pretty typical and it is the type of mistake that I >and most parents make at least with their first at some time or other] >Keep this up and you will Zip no zero NADA relationship with >your child. About 12 is the age when many – perhaps most – parents >are cut out of their child’s inner life and many lose closeness for >all of the teen years and some forever. He is not a child — he is >becoming an actual adult person. His big task during his teen years is to >begin to define himself as a man; treating him as if he were 4 years >old makes one thing clear to him — to be a man, lose the old lady. >Separating from Mom is important — but it need not be traumatic >for Mom unless she makes it so. > How would you like someone snooping into your every move like this? >We aren’t even talking about a date here — where >since you would be driving, you would naturally discover such details >as her name and where she lives — We are talking about a kid with >a tentative plan to meet someone at a supervised school function. >Why would it be necessary to know the girl’s pedigree in such a situation? >And yet Mommy is both giving the grand inquisition and commiting the absurd >act of ‘as long as YOU live under my ROOF, MISTER, you will grovel >and expose your every thought, act and wish to ME’. How would you >react to this kind of tone and demand? >Kids have a huge capacity to hide what they think and do during their >teenage years. And they have a huge capacity to make family life >miserable. If you want to have influence, they need to respect and >love you. ’As long as YOU live under MY roof. . .’ is not the way to >maintain that respect. You need to think about where sensible >boundaries need to be over the next few years — obviously they are >tighter at 12 than 16 than 18. And you need to treat your son like >a person, not a little child. As a parent you have a right to know >where he is going and what the driving arrangements are and to set >reasonable curfews — you can communicate concerns about safety >issues etc etc. But if you start with this petty controlling style >and act as if a foray to a supervised school dance is similar to >a midnight run to a bordello, you are not likely to have either a >relationship or much luck in actually affecting his behavior. Don’t >underestimate the ability of a resentfull teen to hide what he does. >One of the most common mistakes of parents with their first child, is >to not notice when they enter new stages of their lives and need >different parenting and rules — by far the hardest time to parent >is the teen years — where the balance of respect and freedom and >supervision and discipline is a difficult thing to find — and varies >from kid to kid. You are used to supervising [and 'overprotecting?' >children -- this 12 year old is on the verge of not being a child >any more -- he needs a more adult relationships to develop with you >over the near future.You need to regroup here -- and perhaps even sit down >and discuss these issues with him when you feel confident of what >makes sense in your family. While you are the parent -- there is a >certainly amount of negotiation that needs to go on with the young >adult to create a system that meets everyone's needs. In 6 years he >will be old enough to vote, marry, leave home, be a soldier etc etc >and the next six years should involve a gradual loosening of parental >rules and internalization of personal responsibility. It is a >gradual process, not something that happens on his 18th birthday. >Parenting a teen is hard -- but the payoff of doing a pretty good job >[everyone makes mistakes like the one you IMHO just made -- especially >with their first] is that you will come through these years with >the relationship intact. We made some errors with our first — but >prickly as he can be if we try to intrude on his life — he still at >24 seeks us out for advice and is receptive to the advice he has sought — >and occasionally appreciates a little unsolicited help — if offered >in the right spirit and ONCE. [no nagging]
Response:
Absolutely my point in my original post! Locally here, a 4 year old boy was killed when the 2 11 year olds he was playing with in their pool decided to play act some moves they saw in a video game. They held the 4 year old under the water, and he died. Last year, a boy of 10 was murdered by a 16 year old. How about the boys responsible for the 5 deaths in Jonesboro. One of them is 12, the other 14. An aquaintance of mine has a (now) 13 yr old son. At the beginning of March, he announced that the girl he’d been secretly dating (At 12!!!) was nearly 7 months PREGNANT!! The parents of the kids had no idea that their kids even KNEW that much, let alone were practicing it! So now this aquaintance, who himself was a very young father (16), is now a grandfather at 30. There’s so MUCH that kids are exposed to now that we weren’t when we were growing up, that it’s completely close-minded to think that 1-they’ll always make the right decision if they’re left to make them themselves and 2-that their choices will always be HONORED by those around them. Pockets, the letter you wrote to your son is wonderful. And an excellent way to let him know that you care, without making him feel uncomfortable. Given that you were brought up in such a restrictive environment, it’s only natural that what’s been ingrained into you is still likely to influence you from time to time. But the fact that you wrote to us, and that you even recognized that you needed some advice, shows that you’re your own woman 
Kudos and best of luck with your son. It sounds like you’ll both be fine Dawn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->geez… lighten up a little. She came here for suggestions, not to be >abused. >I’m sure there are other ways of getting your message across without being >so aggressive and free with the namecalling. Name a single parent who >wasn’t >overprotective of their child, especially their first. >Dawn >I agree. The woman has every right to want to know where her kids is going >and who he’ll be haning out with. I came across a story in my morning news >email that I thought appropriate. >*** Boys aged 8, 9 charged with raping girl >Delaware brothers aged 8 and 9 have been arrested for the rape of a >9-year-old girl, police said Tuesday. Another 9-year-old girl, who >allegedly helped the boys hold the victim down, was arrested last >week. All three have been charged with rape and kidnaping. Wilmington >police described it as the only sexual assault case on record to >involve suspects so young. The case followed another in Chicago >earlier this month in which to boys aged 7 and 8 were charged with >the murder of an 11-year-old girl. Police believe they could be the >youngest murder suspects in U.S. history. In the Delaware case, the >two boys were taken into custody this week concerning the July 9 >assault, which occurred during daylight in a city park. See >http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2555730913-3be >Someone said they’re only 12 and that they’re not going to get into any >trouble. When we have 7, 8, 9 year olds doing this what makes them think a >12 yr old won’t??? I had a friend in middle school that used to get >molested by boys on the school bus on the way home from school. We’d like >to think that the school bus is a safe place for our kids; but that’s not >always true. In this day and age parents need to know more about what their >kids are doing. Too many parents don’t spend enough time with their kids >finding out what they’re doing or teaching them right from wrong. That’s >why we have so many kids on drugs or doing what the kids in the above >mentioned story are doing. It’s really sad. I commend this woman for >wanting to know all the who, what, and whens in her childs life. It shows >she cares. She came here looking for the right way to approach her child >about all these things. We shouldn’t berate her for that. > (off the soapbox now) >Lisa >Mom to Kelsey (2)
Response:
>geez… lighten up a little. She came here for suggestions, not to be >abused. >I’m sure there are other ways of getting your message across without being >so aggressive and free with the namecalling. Name a single parent who wasn’t >overprotective of their child, especially their first. >Dawn
I agree. The woman has every right to want to know where her kids is going and who he’ll be haning out with. I came across a story in my morning news email that I thought appropriate. *** Boys aged 8, 9 charged with raping girl Delaware brothers aged 8 and 9 have been arrested for the rape of a 9-year-old girl, police said Tuesday. Another 9-year-old girl, who allegedly helped the boys hold the victim down, was arrested last week. All three have been charged with rape and kidnaping. Wilmington police described it as the only sexual assault case on record to involve suspects so young. The case followed another in Chicago earlier this month in which to boys aged 7 and 8 were charged with the murder of an 11-year-old girl. Police believe they could be the youngest murder suspects in U.S. history. In the Delaware case, the two boys were taken into custody this week concerning the July 9 assault, which occurred during daylight in a city park. See http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2555730913-3be Someone said they’re only 12 and that they’re not going to get into any trouble. When we have 7, 8, 9 year olds doing this what makes them think a 12 yr old won’t??? I had a friend in middle school that used to get molested by boys on the school bus on the way home from school. We’d like to think that the school bus is a safe place for our kids; but that’s not always true. In this day and age parents need to know more about what their kids are doing. Too many parents don’t spend enough time with their kids finding out what they’re doing or teaching them right from wrong. That’s why we have so many kids on drugs or doing what the kids in the above mentioned story are doing. It’s really sad. I commend this woman for wanting to know all the who, what, and whens in her childs life. It shows she cares. She came here looking for the right way to approach her child about all these things. We shouldn’t berate her for that. (off the soapbox now) Lisa Mom to Kelsey (2)
Response:
Excellent post Leah. This is the happy medium I like. I also live in a VERY small town.. and I probably do know the girl’s family. That’s why I was curious. However, our school system has a VERY bad gang/drug problem.. and it’s something I am extremely aware of as my son’s father was a gang member. Yes.. I married a gang member and I’m very sensitive to the issues. (Chalk it up to young and stupid). Thanks for the information! pockets – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I disagree. As his mom, it’s every right of yours to know who this girl is. > > Today, there’s just too many variables to deal with, and just have blind > > faith that things will turn out is where so many parents are finding > > heartache. Just because the dance is chaperoned doesn’t mean they can’t get > > into trouble. It just means that it’ll just be a bit more difficult, but not > > impossible. > Not any more than at school in the first place. If you don’t trust > your school’s employees to chaperone a dance, I think it might be > time to find another school, private education, or homeschooling. > And as for the girl, what difference does it make what her name is? He > evidently volunteered a first name, but a surname as well? Why would > you want to know that? >Whereas I do consider the original poster’s approach with her son on this >matter to be a bit intrusive and more than needs be for a 12 year old, I >see nothing wrong with knowing that the girl has a last name to go along >with her first name. >The thing is, it can be done gently and with some humor. I also have a >12 year old son who has ‘discovered’ girls this summer. He told me not >long ago that there were *two* of them with whom he was hanging out with >at the local pool. I did ask what their names were and he provided me >with their first names. Now, given that we do live in a small town and >odds are better than average that I would at least have passing >familiarity with their families, I then asked "Do they have last names, >or should we pray that they get one?" (happily borrowed from Robin >Williams, btw) This was asked with a grin and my son didn’t get offended >at the question. He didn’t know their last names at the time, but he did >find out for me. >This is important because as the summer went on, he did end up going over >to the home of one of the girls (after taking her out for pizza) and yes, >I like to know where my children are and with whom they are spending time >with. That doesn’t mean I play 20 Questions, nor does it mean that I’m >going to be their inquisitor….but it’s not unreasonable to ask for >someone’s last name. >Now, with that said, regarding a school dance, I’ve found from experience >that they’re pretty safe places for young teens to socialize. As long as >the child is being dropped off and picked up by a parent, there should be >little to worry about. If the young man in the original poster’s query >decides that after the dance he still chooses to hang around the girl in >question, there will be time later to meet her (as in, ‘We’re going to >the mall for a few hours. Why don’t we call Karen’s mom and ask if she’d >like to go with us and we’ll have a bite to eat while we’re there.’ or >’We’re going for pizza. Would you like to see if Karen wants to go with >us?’ or ‘You have a big algebra test tomorrow? Do you think Karen >would like to come over and study with you? I’ll spring for a pizza >so you can nosh while you study.’ That sort of thing. Just keep it low >key and casual. >For me, bottom line is that I trust my children. I’ve made it a point >always to have open communication with them. So now, without being >intrusive, I not only know who the girl (for he’s turned out to have a >’preference’ for one over the other) is, but he’s actually brought her >over to me (at a street fair) to introduce her to DH and myself. :) >Leah
Response:
No, I didn’t come here to get abused, called stupid, or anything else. I came here asking an honest question and looking for helpful suggestions and comments. Just to clarify this a little bit: *I* was raised in a cult, and my parents made EVERY decision for me and my brothers, until the time I was 18 and moved out. Discipline was harsh and extreme. The dictates of the cult ruled our every thought and decision, right down to family life. I call this "trickle-down moralit." We had no holidays or celebrations in common with the outside world. Any parties or dances were done with members of the family present: adults, children, relatives, etc. This is the frame of reference I use sometimes, but try *not* to use. You see, I’m not sure what *is* normal sometimes. I don’t want to be a harsh parent, and I don’t want to be too permissive. I want to reach a happy medium. However, reading both the extremes helps me decide on a happy middle ground. Due to the responses I have gotten, I’ve been able to reach this comfortable (I think) medium. I’ve written a nice note to my son. In it I explained that sometimes I appeared too overprotective and strict, but that it was not because I didn’t want him to have any fun, it was because I care for him and want him to be safe and happy. I also said that it was very hard on a parent to see their child growing into a young adult, and that sometimes we still try to treat them as babies. I wrote to him that I realized that he was growing into a young man, and is preparing for the real world in which he will make his own decisions. I reminded him that there will be many *other* decisions to be made between here and then, but that we’d take those decisions one at a time, talk about them, and evaluate the circumstances. I said that I trusted him, was proud of him, and love him very much and that I had confidence he would make the right choices for each decision. In the note I told him he could go to the dance and I would not go, but I would be there to pick him up on time. pockets
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->geez… lighten up a little. She came here for suggestions, not to be >abused. >I’m sure there are other ways of getting your message across without being >so aggressive and free with the namecalling. Name a single parent who wasn’t >overprotective of their child, especially their first. >Dawn >> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >> Content-Type: text/plain; >> charset="iso-8859-1" >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> My son has a dance to go to Friday night. He is in 7th grade. He said = >> that he is going to meet a young lady there. The dance is chaperoned by >= >> the school and the parents can go if they like. I asked my son the = >> young lady’s last name.. he didn’t know. I told him to find out. I = >> then asked where she lives, her age, her grade, where he met her, etc. = >> He told me I was snoopy and asked why I had to ask so many questions. I >= >> told him that he is only 12 years old and that while he was living in my >= >> house and I was responsible for him, I could ask all the questions I = >> wanted. He then said that if I go to the dance with him (while hiding = >> out in the corner) he won’t go… Grrrr! He said that I’ll bug him. I = >> told him that I would not say a word to him and that people wouldn’t = >> have to know I was his Mom. Heh. There will be teachers there. Am I = >> being too overprotective? Should I let him go to the dance by himself = >> and pick him up afterwards? > Overprotective isn’t the issue; there is no ‘protection’ involved here. >But it is beyond stupid parenting behavior. Even if it were true that >you have a right to know his every thought and move [do you read his >mail as well?], this would be a self defeating tactic. [and while it >is stupid -- it is pretty typical and it is the type of mistake that I >and most parents make at least with their first at some time or other] >Keep this up and you will Zip no zero NADA relationship with >your child. About 12 is the age when many – perhaps most – parents >are cut out of their child’s inner life and many lose closeness for >all of the teen years and some forever. He is not a child — he is >becoming an actual adult person. His big task during his teen years is to >begin to define himself as a man; treating him as if he were 4 years >old makes one thing clear to him — to be a man, lose the old lady. >Separating from Mom is important — but it need not be traumatic >for Mom unless she makes it so. > How would you like someone snooping into your every move like this? >We aren’t even talking about a date here — where >since you would be driving, you would naturally discover such details >as her name and where she lives — We are talking about a kid with >a tentative plan to meet someone at a supervised school function. >Why would it be necessary to know the girl’s pedigree in such a situation? >And yet Mommy is both giving the grand inquisition and commiting the absurd >act of ‘as long as YOU live under my ROOF, MISTER, you will grovel >and expose your every thought, act and wish to ME’. How would you >react to this kind of tone and demand? >Kids have a huge capacity to hide what they think and do during their >teenage years. And they have a huge capacity to make family life >miserable. If you want to have influence, they need to respect and >love you. ’As long as YOU live under MY roof. . .’ is not the way to >maintain that respect. You need to think about where sensible >boundaries need to be over the next few years — obviously they are >tighter at 12 than 16 than 18. And you need to treat your son like >a person, not a little child. As a parent you have a right to know >where he is going and what the driving arrangements are and to set >reasonable curfews — you can communicate concerns about safety >issues etc etc. But if you start with this petty controlling style >and act as if a foray to a supervised school dance is similar to >a midnight run to a bordello, you are not likely to have either a >relationship or much luck in actually affecting his behavior. Don’t >underestimate the ability of a resentfull teen to hide what he does. >One of the most common mistakes of parents with their first child, is >to not notice when they enter new stages of their lives and need >different parenting and rules — by far the hardest time to parent >is the teen years — where the balance of respect and freedom and >supervision and discipline is a difficult thing to find — and varies >from kid to kid. You are used to supervising [and 'overprotecting?' >children -- this 12 year old is on the verge of not being a child >any more -- he needs a more adult relationships to develop with you >over the near future.You need to regroup here -- and perhaps even sit down >and discuss these issues with him when you feel confident of what >makes sense in your family. While you are the parent -- there is a >certainly amount of negotiation that needs to go on with the young >adult to create a system that meets everyone's needs. In 6 years he >will be old enough to vote, marry, leave home, be a soldier etc etc >and the next six years should involve a gradual loosening of parental >rules and internalization of personal responsibility. It is a >gradual process, not something that happens on his 18th birthday. >Parenting a teen is hard -- but the payoff of doing a pretty good job >[everyone makes mistakes like the one you IMHO just made -- especially >with their first] is that you will come through these years with >the relationship intact. We made some errors with our first — but >prickly as he can be if we try to intrude on his life — he still at >24 seeks us out for advice and is receptive to the advice he has sought — >and occasionally appreciates a little unsolicited help — if offered >in the right spirit and ONCE. [no nagging]
Response:
> I disagree. As his mom, it’s every right of yours to know who this girl is. > Today, there’s just too many variables to deal with, and just have blind > faith that things will turn out is where so many parents are finding > heartache. Just because the dance is chaperoned doesn’t mean they can’t get > into trouble. It just means that it’ll just be a bit more difficult, but not > impossible.
Not any more than at school in the first place. If you don’t trust your school’s employees to chaperone a dance, I think it might be time to find another school, private education, or homeschooling. And as for the girl, what difference does it make what her name is? He evidently volunteered a first name, but a surname as well? Why would you want to know that? — Brian Ream Kalamazoo, Michigan
Response:
My god, I am shocked he told you he is meeting a girl there!!! I know I NEVER told my parents anything about boys and it’s not because they were unapproachable but because I was just terribly shy about the whole bit. Don’t make your son regret sharing nice stuff like this with you. I would be absolutely delighted if my 12yo son was mature enough to "go with" a girl to a dance – it is just a little kids dance and as long as you keep him well supervised over the next few years I think it healthy for teenagers to have relationships (age appropriate of course) with people of the opposite sex. L.
Response:
geez… lighten up a little. She came here for suggestions, not to be abused. I’m sure there are other ways of getting your message across without being so aggressive and free with the namecalling. Name a single parent who wasn’t overprotective of their child, especially their first. Dawn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > My son has a dance to go to Friday night. He is in 7th grade. He said = > that he is going to meet a young lady there. The dance is chaperoned by = > the school and the parents can go if they like. I asked my son the = > young lady’s last name.. he didn’t know. I told him to find out. I = > then asked where she lives, her age, her grade, where he met her, etc. = > He told me I was snoopy and asked why I had to ask so many questions. I = > told him that he is only 12 years old and that while he was living in my = > house and I was responsible for him, I could ask all the questions I = > wanted. He then said that if I go to the dance with him (while hiding = > out in the corner) he won’t go… Grrrr! He said that I’ll bug him. I = > told him that I would not say a word to him and that people wouldn’t = > have to know I was his Mom. Heh. There will be teachers there. Am I = > being too overprotective? Should I let him go to the dance by himself = > and pick him up afterwards? > Overprotective isn’t the issue; there is no ‘protection’ involved here. >But it is beyond stupid parenting behavior. Even if it were true that >you have a right to know his every thought and move [do you read his >mail as well?], this would be a self defeating tactic. [and while it >is stupid -- it is pretty typical and it is the type of mistake that I >and most parents make at least with their first at some time or other] >Keep this up and you will Zip no zero NADA relationship with >your child. About 12 is the age when many – perhaps most – parents >are cut out of their child’s inner life and many lose closeness for >all of the teen years and some forever. He is not a child — he is >becoming an actual adult person. His big task during his teen years is to >begin to define himself as a man; treating him as if he were 4 years >old makes one thing clear to him — to be a man, lose the old lady. >Separating from Mom is important — but it need not be traumatic >for Mom unless she makes it so. > How would you like someone snooping into your every move like this? >We aren’t even talking about a date here — where >since you would be driving, you would naturally discover such details >as her name and where she lives — We are talking about a kid with >a tentative plan to meet someone at a supervised school function. >Why would it be necessary to know the girl’s pedigree in such a situation? >And yet Mommy is both giving the grand inquisition and commiting the absurd >act of ‘as long as YOU live under my ROOF, MISTER, you will grovel >and expose your every thought, act and wish to ME’. How would you >react to this kind of tone and demand? >Kids have a huge capacity to hide what they think and do during their >teenage years. And they have a huge capacity to make family life >miserable. If you want to have influence, they need to respect and >love you. ’As long as YOU live under MY roof. . .’ is not the way to >maintain that respect. You need to think about where sensible >boundaries need to be over the next few years — obviously they are >tighter at 12 than 16 than 18. And you need to treat your son like >a person, not a little child. As a parent you have a right to know >where he is going and what the driving arrangements are and to set >reasonable curfews — you can communicate concerns about safety >issues etc etc. But if you start with this petty controlling style >and act as if a foray to a supervised school dance is similar to >a midnight run to a bordello, you are not likely to have either a >relationship or much luck in actually affecting his behavior. Don’t >underestimate the ability of a resentfull teen to hide what he does. >One of the most common mistakes of parents with their first child, is >to not notice when they enter new stages of their lives and need >different parenting and rules — by far the hardest time to parent >is the teen years — where the balance of respect and freedom and >supervision and discipline is a difficult thing to find — and varies >from kid to kid. You are used to supervising [and 'overprotecting?' >children -- this 12 year old is on the verge of not being a child >any more -- he needs a more adult relationships to develop with you >over the near future.You need to regroup here -- and perhaps even sit down >and discuss these issues with him when you feel confident of what >makes sense in your family. While you are the parent -- there is a >certainly amount of negotiation that needs to go on with the young >adult to create a system that meets everyone's needs. In 6 years he >will be old enough to vote, marry, leave home, be a soldier etc etc >and the next six years should involve a gradual loosening of parental >rules and internalization of personal responsibility. It is a >gradual process, not something that happens on his 18th birthday. >Parenting a teen is hard -- but the payoff of doing a pretty good job >[everyone makes mistakes like the one you IMHO just made -- especially >with their first] is that you will come through these years with >the relationship intact. We made some errors with our first — but >prickly as he can be if we try to intrude on his life — he still at >24 seeks us out for advice and is receptive to the advice he has sought — >and occasionally appreciates a little unsolicited help — if offered >in the right spirit and ONCE. [no nagging]
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > My son has a dance to go to Friday night. He is in 7th grade. He said = > that he is going to meet a young lady there. The dance is chaperoned by = > the school and the parents can go if they like. I asked my son the = > young lady’s last name.. he didn’t know. I told him to find out. I = > then asked where she lives, her age, her grade, where he met her, etc. = > He told me I was snoopy and asked why I had to ask so many questions. I = > told him that he is only 12 years old and that while he was living in my = > house and I was responsible for him, I could ask all the questions I = > wanted. He then said that if I go to the dance with him (while hiding = > out in the corner) he won’t go… Grrrr! He said that I’ll bug him. I = > told him that I would not say a word to him and that people wouldn’t = > have to know I was his Mom. Heh. There will be teachers there. Am I = > being too overprotective? Should I let him go to the dance by himself = > and pick him up afterwards?
Overprotective isn’t the issue; there is no ‘protection’ involved here. But it is beyond stupid parenting behavior. Even if it were true that you have a right to know his every thought and move [do you read his mail as well?], this would be a self defeating tactic. [and while it is stupid -- it is pretty typical and it is the type of mistake that I and most parents make at least with their first at some time or other] Keep this up and you will Zip no zero NADA relationship with your child. About 12 is the age when many – perhaps most – parents are cut out of their child’s inner life and many lose closeness for all of the teen years and some forever. He is not a child — he is becoming an actual adult person. His big task during his teen years is to begin to define himself as a man; treating him as if he were 4 years old makes one thing clear to him — to be a man, lose the old lady. Separating from Mom is important — but it need not be traumatic for Mom unless she makes it so. How would you like someone snooping into your every move like this? We aren’t even talking about a date here — where since you would be driving, you would naturally discover such details as her name and where she lives — We are talking about a kid with a tentative plan to meet someone at a supervised school function. Why would it be necessary to know the girl’s pedigree in such a situation? And yet Mommy is both giving the grand inquisition and commiting the absurd act of ‘as long as YOU live under my ROOF, MISTER, you will grovel and expose your every thought, act and wish to ME’. How would you react to this kind of tone and demand? Kids have a huge capacity to hide what they think and do during their teenage years. And they have a huge capacity to make family life miserable. If you want to have influence, they need to respect and love you. ’As long as YOU live under MY roof. . .’ is not the way to maintain that respect. You need to think about where sensible boundaries need to be over the next few years — obviously they are tighter at 12 than 16 than 18. And you need to treat your son like a person, not a little child. As a parent you have a right to know where he is going and what the driving arrangements are and to set reasonable curfews — you can communicate concerns about safety issues etc etc. But if you start with this petty controlling style and act as if a foray to a supervised school dance is similar to a midnight run to a bordello, you are not likely to have either a relationship or much luck in actually affecting his behavior. Don’t underestimate the ability of a resentfull teen to hide what he does. One of the most common mistakes of parents with their first child, is to not notice when they enter new stages of their lives and need different parenting and rules — by far the hardest time to parent is the teen years — where the balance of respect and freedom and supervision and discipline is a difficult thing to find — and varies from kid to kid. You are used to supervising [and 'overprotecting?' children -- this 12 year old is on the verge of not being a child any more -- he needs a more adult relationships to develop with you over the near future.You need to regroup here -- and perhaps even sit down and discuss these issues with him when you feel confident of what makes sense in your family. While you are the parent -- there is a certainly amount of negotiation that needs to go on with the young adult to create a system that meets everyone's needs. In 6 years he will be old enough to vote, marry, leave home, be a soldier etc etc and the next six years should involve a gradual loosening of parental rules and internalization of personal responsibility. It is a gradual process, not something that happens on his 18th birthday. Parenting a teen is hard -- but the payoff of doing a pretty good job [everyone makes mistakes like the one you IMHO just made -- especially with their first] is that you will come through these years with the relationship intact. We made some errors with our first — but prickly as he can be if we try to intrude on his life — he still at 24 seeks us out for advice and is receptive to the advice he has sought — and occasionally appreciates a little unsolicited help — if offered in the right spirit and ONCE. [no nagging]
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My son has a dance to go to Friday night. He is in 7th grade. He > said that he is going to meet a young lady there. The dance is > chaperoned by the school and the parents can go if they like. I asked > my son the young lady’s last name.. he didn’t know. I told him to > find out. I then asked where she lives, her age, her grade, where he > met her, etc. He told me I was snoopy and asked why I had to ask so > many questions. I told him that he is only 12 years old and that > while he was living in my house and I was responsible for him, I could > ask all the questions I wanted. He then said that if I go to the > dance with him (while hiding out in the corner) he won’t go… Grrrr! > He said that I’ll bug him. I told him that I would not say a word to > him and that people wouldn’t have to know I was his Mom. Heh. There > will be teachers there. Am I being too overprotective? Should I let > him go to the dance by himself and pick him up afterwards? > pockets
My suggestion would be to let him go to the dance, don’t quiz him about the girl he’s going to meet there, tell him you might go to the dance, but that if you do you’ll hang out with the teachers, and not talk to him at the dance. But talk to him more often anyway outside of that so you have some idea of who his friends are. He’s at an age where he’s really really trying to define himself; friendships with girls may well last no more than a couple of weeks at a time, so trying to read too much into a particular girl’s presence at a dance is probably reaching. Teenagerhood is about as hard on the teenagers as it is on the parents, and vice versa. Just remember, they have a couple of disadvantages — hormones a’ragin away, and they have a lot less experience with tact. Don’t let that be an excuse to let them run rampant, just remember that the kid who was a delight at 11 is overwhelmingly likely (though not guaranteed) to end up a delight again sometime. Just find reasons to talk to him often about other stuff, and the important stuff will come. Good luck Wendy W.
Response:
I disagree. As his mom, it’s every right of yours to know who this girl is. Today, there’s just too many variables to deal with, and just have blind faith that things will turn out is where so many parents are finding heartache. Just because the dance is chaperoned doesn’t mean they can’t get into trouble. It just means that it’ll just be a bit more difficult, but not impossible. I don’t think trusting or not trusting the teachers is the point either. Just because they’re there, doesn’t mean they’re going to scrutinize what each & every kid is doing – they’re there on their free time, and that means they’ll ALSO socialize. I think you should let him go – but definately make it known to him that you CARE about who he is hanging out with – you’re not being nosy – you’re being careful because you love him Maybe not a magical solution, but it’s a start Take care, and good luck. Dawn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My son has a dance to go to Friday night. He is in 7th grade. He > said that he is going to meet a young lady there. The dance is > chaperoned by the school and the parents can go if they like. I asked > my son the young lady’s last name.. he didn’t know. I told him to > find out. I then asked where she lives, her age, her grade, where he > met her, etc. He told me I was snoopy and asked why I had to ask so > many questions. I told him that he is only 12 years old and that > while he was living in my house and I was responsible for him, I could > ask all the questions I wanted. He then said that if I go to the > dance with him (while hiding out in the corner) he won’t go… Grrrr! > He said that I’ll bug him. I told him that I would not say a word to > him and that people wouldn’t have to know I was his Mom. Heh. There > will be teachers there. Am I being too overprotective? Should I let > him go to the dance by himself and pick him up afterwards? >I’m not sure what difference it makes to you what girl he’s going to >hang out with at the dance, and I’m not sure why you would let his >teachers care for him during the day at school, but as soon as there is >something to do *after* school, you don’t trust them to keep track of >your son. >Asking the girl’s age, grade, where he met her is one thing, her last >name (or her first name, for that matter) is another. I think that’s >just being nosy. You don’t know her, and most likely don’t know her >family, so what do you care? At twelve, there is no trouble he can get >into at a school chaperoned dance – a dance at which you will drop him >off and pick him up. >So what happens at the Valentine’s dance at eighth grade? Maybe instead >of telling you he’ll be there with a girl, he chooses not to volunteer >that information. Maybe he tells you that he’s going ’stag’ and that >him and ‘the guys’ will be hanging out – that’s much easier than telling >you the truth and getting the third degree about it. >What if he’s fifteen and his best friend who you know and love has a >car? You trust him, don’t you? Maybe he’ll say "I’m going to so and >so’s house after school, we’re taking his car, I’ll be back at seven." >Maybe instead, he goes to a girl’s house when her parents aren’t home >(oh jeepers). >Don’t make it *hard* for your son to tell the truth, make it *easy*. >Then he’ll do it more often. If you constantly search for deception, >deception is all you will receive. >– Brian Ream Kalamazoo, Michigan
Response:
My son has a dance to go to Friday night. He is in 7th grade. He said that he is going to meet a young lady there. The dance is chaperoned by the school and the parents can go if they like. I asked my son the young lady’s last name.. he didn’t know. I told him to find out. I then asked where she lives, her age, her grade, where he met her, etc. He told me I was snoopy and asked why I had to ask so many questions. I told him that he is only 12 years old and that while he was living in my house and I was responsible for him, I could ask all the questions I wanted. He then said that if I go to the dance with him (while hiding out in the corner) he won’t go… Grrrr! He said that I’ll bug him. I told him that I would not say a word to him and that people wouldn’t have to know I was his Mom. Heh. There will be teachers there. Am I being too overprotective? Should I let him go to the dance by himself and pick him up afterwards? pockets
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My son has a dance to go to Friday night. He is in 7th grade. He > said that he is going to meet a young lady there. The dance is > chaperoned by the school and the parents can go if they like. I asked > my son the young lady’s last name.. he didn’t know. I told him to > find out. I then asked where she lives, her age, her grade, where he > met her, etc. He told me I was snoopy and asked why I had to ask so > many questions. I told him that he is only 12 years old and that > while he was living in my house and I was responsible for him, I could > ask all the questions I wanted. He then said that if I go to the > dance with him (while hiding out in the corner) he won’t go… Grrrr! > He said that I’ll bug him. I told him that I would not say a word to > him and that people wouldn’t have to know I was his Mom. Heh. There > will be teachers there. Am I being too overprotective? Should I let > him go to the dance by himself and pick him up afterwards?
I’m not sure what difference it makes to you what girl he’s going to hang out with at the dance, and I’m not sure why you would let his teachers care for him during the day at school, but as soon as there is something to do *after* school, you don’t trust them to keep track of your son. Asking the girl’s age, grade, where he met her is one thing, her last name (or her first name, for that matter) is another. I think that’s just being nosy. You don’t know her, and most likely don’t know her family, so what do you care? At twelve, there is no trouble he can get into at a school chaperoned dance – a dance at which you will drop him off and pick him up. So what happens at the Valentine’s dance at eighth grade? Maybe instead of telling you he’ll be there with a girl, he chooses not to volunteer that information. Maybe he tells you that he’s going ’stag’ and that him and ‘the guys’ will be hanging out – that’s much easier than telling you the truth and getting the third degree about it. What if he’s fifteen and his best friend who you know and love has a car? You trust him, don’t you? Maybe he’ll say "I’m going to so and so’s house after school, we’re taking his car, I’ll be back at seven." Maybe instead, he goes to a girl’s house when her parents aren’t home (oh jeepers). Don’t make it *hard* for your son to tell the truth, make it *easy*. Then he’ll do it more often. If you constantly search for deception, deception is all you will receive. — Brian Ream Kalamazoo, Michigan
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