Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I totally agree with you… > > I have a child on the way (which is why I’m hanging out on these > parenting > > newsgroups) and am definitely going to watch what games are played in > > addition to other things like music and TV/Movies. > I have a 3 year old. I find he is mostly uninterested in the tv at this > stage. He > has a few favorite shows-ER, Kipper The Dog, Franklin, Little Bear. If > these shows > are on, I tune the tv to them, and he may watch them (unless he’s too > A 3 year old likes ER? That’s too funny! I’m guessing its all the action > that > he likes…no? > **Monica
I have no idea. He first alerted us that he enjoyed this show when he was 18 months old. He stopped playing to watch it, and his dad changed the channel. He cried, so we put it back (sometimes it’s fun to humor the baby). Now, if it’s on, he’s watching (unless, of course, he’s busy). It could be the action. If so, I’d rather he watch that than power rangers. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I was sort of half listening to the tv the other night when I heard > > complaints about > > video games and how they are too violent, and are causing children to > become > > violent > > towards each other, etc. > Puh-leeze! That’s a total cop-out. Generally parents want someone to blame > when their little Johnny won’t stop fighting in school. But instead of > realizing that maybe little Johnny is fighting in school because it’s the > ONLY way he can get one moment of his parents’ time and attention, they say, > "oh, it has to be the video game!" Good grief, what has happened to true > accountability in this country? Teach your kids that games are > games…fantasy…not reality. If you can’t manage to get that idea across > there is a major problem. And for God’s sake, pay attention to your kids!!! > Most kids who act out are just SCREAMING for someone to notice them because > there is very little attention paid to them at home. Let’s face it, when you > get right down to the heart of things, all kids who don’t get any attention > when they are being good, but do when they are bad, see that as the only way > to get attention. > Sherrie >Actually you are 80% right. That is, there is a piece missing in your >on target comment concerning violent behavior in children. All >behavior, but most especially that more extreme and energetic behavior >we parents call "misbehavior" is analogous to "pain" in its purpose to >draw our attention to something that needs attention….Mother Nature >said it is this and way, and so it shall be. >But what? Just as in tracing the cause of pain, sometimes the child’s >behavior doesn’t tip us off to the need being expressed. Well, at >least if we allow our own projections to get in the way, our own >expectations, our fears, our need to conform to society and culture.
Yes. It is only abuse that NOBODY should inflict upon a child, coercion and threat and violence and opposition to the child’s decisions for himself, those are the things that cause the child to lash out violently. Without that the child never finds reason to lash out at anyone, and so if you would eliminate what causes a child to lash out later, and as an adult, you will prevent adults from coercing and punishing that child for ANYTHING that they do. No person needs to be treated that way. We only jail felons to get them out of circulation. We are forbidden to do to prisoners in penitentiaries and even on death-row the kinds of things we seem to pass over in our failure to protect children! It should be the knowledge of every parent that their child will be taught their rights in school, and if their child reports them for abuse that those parents will be publically BEATEN to the child’s liking!! No parent need fear their child if they have been their friend and merely been loving and warm. Steve
Response:
> I totally agree with you… > I have a child on the way (which is why I’m hanging out on these parenting > newsgroups) and am definitely going to watch what games are played in > addition to other things like music and TV/Movies. > I have a 3 year old. I find he is mostly uninterested in the tv at this > stage. He > has a few favorite shows-ER, Kipper The Dog, Franklin, Little Bear. If > these shows > are on, I tune the tv to them, and he may watch them (unless he’s too
A 3 year old likes ER? That’s too funny! I’m guessing its all the action that he likes…no? **Monica
Response:
Have a juice box, Steve. Go take a breath of fresh (?) air and calm down. 
Response:
> Have a juice box, Steve.
LOL — Momma to Madison (10/00) and Nicholas (10/01) "Some minds are like concrete, thoroughly mixed up and permanently set."–Rev. Denny Brake
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Have a juice box, Steve. Go take a breath of fresh (?) air and calm down. >
Response:
> I totally agree with you… > I have a child on the way (which is why I’m hanging out on these parenting > newsgroups) and am definitely going to watch what games are played in > addition to other things like music and TV/Movies.
I have a 3 year old. I find he is mostly uninterested in the tv at this stage. He has a few favorite shows-ER, Kipper The Dog, Franklin, Little Bear. If these shows are on, I tune the tv to them, and he may watch them (unless he’s too busy with his toys). I do, however, watch the shows with him when he seems interested, and I will change the channel if need be. > Even though I believe that games and TV don’t make killers, I do think that > they can certainly be inappropriate at certain ages.
Exactly. When we rented "Freddy Got Fingered" and "Hannibal", we didn’t pop them in the vcr until the kid was asleep (which is a good thing, cause I wasn’t prepared for all the stuff on FGF.) This should be fun, > looking at this as a sober adult who hasn’t been around a lot of kids for a > few years, children’s programming seems to be either completely idiotic, > (well let me restate, geared for a VERY young child who just wants to stare > at colors) or inappropriate… of course I’m a wide eyed parent to be, but > right now, I’m sticking with the "I’d rather turn off the damn TV than let > them watch THAT crap" ideal
There are definitely some inappropriate shows for kids on tv. Not all of them contain violence, strong language or sexual situations. And, not all of these are wildly inappropriate for kids. > I’ll be back in a few years saying, "Why can’t they invent a 200 DVD jukebox > so I don’t have to change the Disney movies as often?
LOL. Yes, you will. You will even be back here grumbling about how some restaurants are just not child friendly, and how the food on some of those kid’s meals is nothing but crap. It goes with the territory. > Madness
R.G.F – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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>I totally agree with you… >I have a child on the way (which is why I’m hanging out on these parenting >newsgroups) and am definitely going to watch what games are played in >addition to other things like music and TV/Movies. >Even though I believe that games and TV don’t make killers, I do think that >they can certainly be inappropriate at certain ages. This should be fun,
In other words, having now been properly conditioned by luxurious safe western society that all violence should make you feel icky and squirmy, you don’t really HAVE a reason, just some vague JERK somewhere tells you this. (Conditioned knee-jerk) >looking at this as a sober adult who hasn’t been around a lot of kids for a >few years, children’s programming seems to be either completely idiotic, >(well let me restate, geared for a VERY young child who just wants to stare >at colors) or inappropriate… of course I’m a wide eyed parent to be, but >right now, I’m sticking with the "I’d rather turn off the damn TV than let >them watch THAT crap" ideal. >I’ll be back in a few years saying, "Why can’t they invent a 200 DVD jukebox >so I don’t have to change the Disney movies as often? >Madness
You will have to get used to it. Steve
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I totally agree with you… > I have a child on the way (which is why I’m hanging out on these parenting > newsgroups) and am definitely going to watch what games are played in > addition to other things like music and TV/Movies. > Even though I believe that games and TV don’t make killers, I do think that > they can certainly be inappropriate at certain ages. This should be fun, > looking at this as a sober adult who hasn’t been around a lot of kids for a > few years, children’s programming seems to be either completely idiotic, > (well let me restate, geared for a VERY young child who just wants to stare > at colors) or inappropriate… of course I’m a wide eyed parent to be, but > right now, I’m sticking with the "I’d rather turn off the damn TV than let > them watch THAT crap" ideal. > I’ll be back in a few years saying, "Why can’t they invent a 200 DVD jukebox > so I don’t have to change the Disney movies as often? > Madness
If you have a child coming may I suggest you read Joseph Chilton Pearce’s book, "Magical Child"? It will explain why violent games prior to about 11 or 12 can interfere with normal developmental tasks younger children need to be about. Well, and a lot more. It’s a bit of read, as he isn’t the clearest writer in the world but he has done his research. Connecting up what is going on neurologically for the developing child and parenting methods is one way to go. A way that worked pretty well for my two children. lucky
Response:
I totally agree with you… I have a child on the way (which is why I’m hanging out on these parenting newsgroups) and am definitely going to watch what games are played in addition to other things like music and TV/Movies. Even though I believe that games and TV don’t make killers, I do think that they can certainly be inappropriate at certain ages. This should be fun, looking at this as a sober adult who hasn’t been around a lot of kids for a few years, children’s programming seems to be either completely idiotic, (well let me restate, geared for a VERY young child who just wants to stare at colors) or inappropriate… of course I’m a wide eyed parent to be, but right now, I’m sticking with the "I’d rather turn off the damn TV than let them watch THAT crap" ideal. I’ll be back in a few years saying, "Why can’t they invent a 200 DVD jukebox so I don’t have to change the Disney movies as often? Madness
Response:
>I am an avid gamer who believes that games are merely compiled lines of code >and not the Devil. I’m not about to load up the Jeep with guns and grenades >just yet, because I’m a stable person (unless you are going against me in >Quake, then I’ll kill you and sleep like a baby). >It’s not the stable, happy people we’re talking about. It’s the kids who >are misfits, who quite possibly are lacking some important chemicals in >their brain that tell them that that killing is not just a bad thing (let’s >face it some bad things are fun, aren’t they?) but a life changing, tragic >event for all involved. It’s these people that I feel get affected by the >violence in video games. Plant a seed if you will.
I would say it informs them as to methods, but it isn’t as though they won’t invariably learn a few methods to hurt or kill from mystery novels or cartoons, or from biographical histories. So then which of these or their depiction might you want to ban next, eh? The thing to worry about is the detection of psychopathology, whether of chemical or experiential origin, and treating it if it is chemical, and preventing it if it is experiential in origin. If you beat a child from a young enough age he will not ever learn to love. If you beat him later the only advantage is then that he will know he should kill YOU, and not the rest of us too. >Like the young man who reads Catcher in the Rye and decided it was a >relevant action to murder John Lennon. We didn’t ban Catcher in the Rye, or >put the publishing industry on trial. We knew he was sick.
Precisely. >Games are the same thing. They may contain a sentiment that we don’t agree >with, but sane, balanced people are free to ignore them or enjoy them at >will. Sane and balanced people resist the urge to kill or harm.
Games contain no sentiment, except the ABSOLUTE TRUTH that violence is sometimes necessary and even gratifying when well-justified. Some people just don’t LIKE that truth. Tough shit. It’s still the truth, and it will NEVER go away. EVER. get used to that idea. If the earth was absolutely peaceful, you could be invaded from space and your planet could be a wreck and you enslaved in electronic chains in about 15 minutes. Stay armed. For all we know the reasons the aliens haven’t come to visit yet is because they are all electronic serfs wired to bombs in their chests to serve the rich who live on luxury worlds near the center of our galaxy. And they don’t bother to travel, they prefer to party! There is ALWAYS someone bigger and nastier than you whom you don’t even know about yet, so keep your weapons handy. >The insane and unbalanced will eventually find something to set them off. >Offsetting blame is this century’s version of saying "the Devil made me do >it".
There are also a form of insane that are not so erratic, even though they are equally as emotionally defective, and that’s the RICH! They’re so crazy that they think they own everyone else’s house and think they should be PAID for it monthly or else everyone should sleep in the rain and cold someplace else. We will have to kill them eventually. So when all the loonies who go postal are locked up, or cured, or hot-wired and enslaved, or whatever, it ain’t over yet, by a LONG shot!! Steve
Response:
I am an avid gamer who believes that games are merely compiled lines of code and not the Devil. I’m not about to load up the Jeep with guns and grenades just yet, because I’m a stable person (unless you are going against me in Quake, then I’ll kill you and sleep like a baby). It’s not the stable, happy people we’re talking about. It’s the kids who are misfits, who quite possibly are lacking some important chemicals in their brain that tell them that that killing is not just a bad thing (let’s face it some bad things are fun, aren’t they?) but a life changing, tragic event for all involved. It’s these people that I feel get affected by the violence in video games. Plant a seed if you will. Like the young man who reads Catcher in the Rye and decided it was a relevant action to murder John Lennon. We didn’t ban Catcher in the Rye, or put the publishing industry on trial. We knew he was sick. Games are the same thing. They may contain a sentiment that we don’t agree with, but sane, balanced people are free to ignore them or enjoy them at will. Sane and balanced people resist the urge to kill or harm. The insane and unbalanced will eventually find something to set them off. Offsetting blame is this century’s version of saying "the Devil made me do it".
Response:
> I am an avid gamer who believes that games are merely compiled lines of code > and not the Devil. I’m not about to load up the Jeep with guns and grenades > just yet, because I’m a stable person (unless you are going against me in > Quake, then I’ll kill you and sleep like a baby).
Incidentally, my husband has quite the collection of games, and he’s no more violent than the average guy. So, I know where you’re coming from. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It’s not the stable, happy people we’re talking about. It’s the kids who > are misfits, who quite possibly are lacking some important chemicals in > their brain that tell them that that killing is not just a bad thing (let’s > face it some bad things are fun, aren’t they?) but a life changing, tragic > event for all involved. It’s these people that I feel get affected by the > violence in video games. Plant a seed if you will. > Like the young man who reads Catcher in the Rye and decided it was a > relevant action to murder John Lennon. We didn’t ban Catcher in the Rye, or > put the publishing industry on trial. We knew he was sick. > Games are the same thing. They may contain a sentiment that we don’t agree > with, but sane, balanced people are free to ignore them or enjoy them at > will. Sane and balanced people resist the urge to kill or harm. > The insane and unbalanced will eventually find something to set them off.
FWIW, I agree. Normal, balanced people can tell the difference between real and not real, right and wrong. Yes, even children. I, for example, saw many vampire movies before I was 10. I also knew that there weren’t vampires, that I wasn’t a vampire, and biting people on the neck would not be well received. > Offsetting blame is this century’s version of saying "the Devil made me do > it".
Actually, I felt that blaming everyone was the mom’s way of grieving, in this instance. In reality, I am one of those evil parents that believes that the way to circumvent this is to buy the games for your kids, play them first to screen for content (some games just aren’t for kids), and then explain the violent scenes to your child (yeah, it’s cool when the screen guy blows up….awesome. Not cool at all in real life, though…). But, that doesn’t seem to be a popular viewpoint. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was sort of half listening to the tv the other night when I heard > complaints about > video games and how they are too violent, and are causing children to > become > violent > towards each other, etc. > Puh-leeze! That’s a total cop-out. Generally parents want someone to blame > when their little Johnny won’t stop fighting in school. But instead of > realizing that maybe little Johnny is fighting in school because it’s the > ONLY way he can get one moment of his parents’ time and attention, they say, > "oh, it has to be the video game!" Good grief, what has happened to true > accountability in this country? Teach your kids that games are > games…fantasy…not reality. If you can’t manage to get that idea across > there is a major problem. And for God’s sake, pay attention to your kids!!! > Most kids who act out are just SCREAMING for someone to notice them because > there is very little attention paid to them at home. Let’s face it, when you > get right down to the heart of things, all kids who don’t get any attention > when they are being good, but do when they are bad, see that as the only way > to get attention. > Sherrie
Actually you are 80% right. That is, there is a piece missing in your on target comment concerning violent behavior in children. All behavior, but most especially that more extreme and energetic behavior we parents call "misbehavior" is analogous to "pain" in its purpose to draw our attention to something that needs attention….Mother Nature said it is this and way, and so it shall be. But what? Just as in tracing the cause of pain, sometimes the child’s behavior doesn’t tip us off to the need being expressed. Well, at least if we allow our own projections to get in the way, our own expectations, our fears, our need to conform to society and culture. I’ll make a guess though. These bevaviors almost always represent the child’s innocent (out of ignorance) need to be shown how to get a need met. It is the way of living organizms to do this. In other words, the child is saying, in the only way they know how: "Teach me what I so badly need to learn". And they insist (because of the compulsion of being human) on it. YOu must teach and you do teach them one way or another. Your negligence will teach as surely as violent reaction and punishment will teach…and the third way? Learn how to teach in supportive, loving ways, with enthusiasm at least equal to the child’s…boy, are two and three year olds enthusiastic. Most of the time it’s easy and simple…and when it’s not, patience and good humor wins out, for success, over all other methods. One day I’ll put up the chapter on my website from my wife’s third book (July 02 publishing date) that she based on my work in developing practical parenting methods. It’s called, "Joyful Disruptions". Can you guess how it applies to a child that is "misbehaving"? I bet you’ll get it right first guess. hugs, Lucky
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>> I was sort of half listening to the tv the other night when I heard > complaints about > video games and how they are too violent, and are causing children to >become > violent > towards each other, etc. >Puh-leeze! That’s a total cop-out. Generally parents want someone to blame >when their little Johnny won’t stop fighting in school. But instead of >realizing that maybe little Johnny is fighting in school because it’s the >ONLY way he can get one moment of his parents’ time and attention, they say, >"oh, it has to be the video game!"
Kids don’t fight because they want attention, that’s the stupidest notion people have about child motivation. They fight because they have been abused and humiliated by their parents and dishonored by being assaulted until they are made hypersensitively insecure and need to beat on someone else to recoup their loss of personal self-esteem. THAT’S why kids fight and bully. Attention seeking because of neglect is much more often either a passive-aggression or fire-starting or stealing. >Good grief, what has happened to true >accountability in this country? Teach your kids that games are >games…fantasy…not reality.
They know that. No human can grow up without knowing that. That is NOT why such things occur. > If you can’t manage to get that idea across >there is a major problem. And for God’s sake, pay attention to your kids!!!
Useless advice, as many will simply become more abusive of their kids in response to such a warning. >Most kids who act out are just SCREAMING for someone to notice them because >there is very little attention paid to them at home. Let’s face it, when you >get right down to the heart of things, all kids who don’t get any attention >when they are being good, but do when they are bad, see that as the only way >to get attention. >Sherrie
Kids use violence to recoup loss of self-esteem from having violence used on them, and that is the only reason. It has nothing whatsoever to do with "getting your attention" or them mistaking fantasy for reality. Steve
Response:
> I was sort of half listening to the tv the other night when I heard > complaints about > video games and how they are too violent, and are causing children to become > violent > towards each other, etc.
Puh-leeze! That’s a total cop-out. Generally parents want someone to blame when their little Johnny won’t stop fighting in school. But instead of realizing that maybe little Johnny is fighting in school because it’s the ONLY way he can get one moment of his parents’ time and attention, they say, "oh, it has to be the video game!" Good grief, what has happened to true accountability in this country? Teach your kids that games are games…fantasy…not reality. If you can’t manage to get that idea across there is a major problem. And for God’s sake, pay attention to your kids!!! Most kids who act out are just SCREAMING for someone to notice them because there is very little attention paid to them at home. Let’s face it, when you get right down to the heart of things, all kids who don’t get any attention when they are being good, but do when they are bad, see that as the only way to get attention. Sherrie — Momma to Madison (10/00) and Nicholas (10/01) "Some minds are like concrete, thoroughly mixed up and permanently set."–Rev. Denny Brake
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was sort of half listening to the tv the other night when I heard > complaints about > video games and how they are too violent, and are causing children to become > violent > towards each other, etc. > The mother complaining made sure to blame the manufacturer of the game, the > store that sold the game, the friend’s mom for not taking the game away, and > even > her kid’s friend. She never once mentioned herself. > So, I guess what I’m wondering is, what is our role, as parents, when it > comes to > our children and what images they are exposed to? > FWIW: I don’t think the manufacturers are to blame. After all, a sizeable > segment > of the population are adults, and I am betting that is who the game was made > for. > Any thoughts? > -Rebecca
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:>I was sort of half listening to the tv the other night when I heard :>complaints about :>video games and how they are too violent, and are causing children to become :>violent :>towards each other, etc. : Bogus garbage psuedo-science. Pure hogwashery. I would be careful about saying it is categorically a cause…but don’t doubt there is a correlation. There have been case studies done in the past, for instance, that show that kids who lived in isolated towns and remote regions who had no exposure to TV [and violent programs thereon] who later got TV reception, and they were found in the ensuing months to exhibit many more incidents of violent behavior patterns. I’d say one has a duty to watch what your kids are playing with. Don’t go overboard, but if a kid seems to be in front of the computer 24/7 with few or no other interests, even if he or she is being "a good kid" it can be cause for concern. Karen
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >:>I was sort of half listening to the tv the other night when I heard >:>complaints about >:>video games and how they are too violent, and are causing children to become >:>violent >:>towards each other, etc. >: Bogus garbage psuedo-science. Pure hogwashery. >I would be careful about saying it is categorically a cause…but >don’t doubt there is a correlation. There have been case studies >done in the past, for instance, that show that kids who lived in >isolated towns and remote regions who had no exposure to TV [and >violent programs thereon] who later got TV reception, and they >were found in the ensuing months to exhibit many more incidents >of violent behavior patterns.
Imitation. Imitation is physical activity for boys, it is NOT violence. This is the danger of letting pacifistically brainwashed women try to properly judge young male activity. If you could get them to reveal that watching violence made them want to kill someone, then you have isolated something of note. But it doesn’t do that. Being mistreated by your parents as a child makes you want to kill people alright, specifically your parents unless you’ve ALSO been brainwashed that your parents are always RIGHT, but then you don’t know why you want to kill people or whom to kill, but you know you’re going to have to kill somebody in order to get rid of your need for vengeance to re-establish your own self-respect!!! >I’d say one has a duty to watch what your kids are playing with. >Don’t go overboard, but if a kid seems to be in front of the >computer 24/7 with few or no other interests, even if he or >she is being "a good kid" it can be cause for concern. >Karen
No, that’s simply not true. His greatest risk is getting fat and stupid. Steve
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I was sort of half listening to the tv the other night when I heard complaints about video games and how they are too violent, and are causing children to become violent towards each other, etc. The mother complaining made sure to blame the manufacturer of the game, the store that sold the game, the friend’s mom for not taking the game away, and even her kid’s friend. She never once mentioned herself. So, I guess what I’m wondering is, what is our role, as parents, when it comes to our children and what images they are exposed to? FWIW: I don’t think the manufacturers are to blame. After all, a sizeable segment of the population are adults, and I am betting that is who the game was made for. Any thoughts? -Rebecca
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>I was sort of half listening to the tv the other night when I heard >complaints about >video games and how they are too violent, and are causing children to become >violent >towards each other, etc.
Bogus garbage psuedo-science. Pure hogwashery. >The mother complaining made sure to blame the manufacturer of the game, the >store that sold the game, the friend’s mom for not taking the game away, and >even >her kid’s friend. She never once mentioned herself. >So, I guess what I’m wondering is, what is our role, as parents, when it >comes to >our children and what images they are exposed to?
Answer questions and leave them the fuck alone. >FWIW: I don’t think the manufacturers are to blame. After all, a sizeable >segment >of the population are adults, and I am betting that is who the game was made >for. >Any thoughts? >-Rebecca
There is NO reputable data indicating that violent video games have anymore a causal relationship to youth violence than they did for comic books in the 1950’s. They’d be glad if comic books were ALL that kids are into now, comics are NOW seen as a geek-kid’s pasttime along with eating soft foods and staying home in your room instead of joining a gang!! The kids who are violent aren’t even the ones who play video games OR read comics, in fact most of them can’t even read anyway, and they can’t afford the video games. The kids who stay home and DON’T join gangs are the ones who get into violent video games. It helps them understand the violence in the society around them without getting actually hurt or killed! Same as comic books! The violent kids don’t play games, they REALLY kill people. Steve
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