Pure Parents

Question:

> I am sorry but it ONLY teaches that it is OK ..I mean if it is WRONG, why do > it?? Am I not getting this or is this ludicrous? I had  a parent (I am a > child counselor) who did this and I could NOT believe it..INSANE..if your > kid hits another do you hit them back. In my eyes biting back is abuse..Pure > and simple..I say, remove them from the situation, say NO to biting and time > them out. Repeat over and over. Take away privileges for biting. Please do > not bite back.. > — > Ann Phelan

It is not done to harm them, but a child can expect to be assaulted when they assault someone else. This has to be an absolute limit for children and even adults!!  A child should have protection from ever being assaulted if they do NOT assault another, no matter their behavior, but the real world does not allow them to assault others, and the most direct way to teach this is to carefully apprise them of what they have done by what it feels like to another. Obviously you do not deal such a bite or a blow as will harm them past the lesson. But all privileges or time-outs do is to piss them off and set aside time for them to learn hate of you, and they do nothing else. The kids I have seen who have been time-outed to death are the MOST VICIOUS and MOST VENGEFUL little bastards I have EVER seen. It doesn’t work! It merely directs them to learn hatred of anyone who stops them. It suspends their hate and freezes it as if in amber. If a child does not assault another child he should be protected from ANY authoritarian control whatsoever, and should be permitted just about anything he wishes to do autonomously. But if they assault another that protection should be ended, and they should know the difference between those two modes of living IN ADVANCE! Steve

Response:

I am sorry but it ONLY teaches that it is OK ..I mean if it is WRONG, why do it?? Am I not getting this or is this ludicrous? I had  a parent (I am a child counselor) who did this and I could NOT believe it..INSANE..if your kid hits another do you hit them back. In my eyes biting back is abuse..Pure and simple..I say, remove them from the situation, say NO to biting and time them out. Repeat over and over. Take away privileges for biting. Please do not bite back.. — Ann Phelan Caribbean Wind & Sun Vacations P.O. Box 820 S. Dennis, MA 02660 508-385-8174

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Even *I* agree with it, as long as the parent has a firm hold on their > sense of vengeance and can distinguish between vengeance and education, > and can bite only while the child is biting and can increase their > bite-pressure only slowly and release when they release. > Steve > What if the child bites fast and runs away? When my daughter went through > her biting stage, she’d bite her sister quickly and run away. So no one > could bite her until she let go, because she had already let go. > I personally don’t agree with biting them back in any case. When we saw she > was doing this more than a few times we just tried to talk to her and show > her the teeth marks and tell her it hurt. Just waited that stage out. (not > that I’m saying it’s the best thing to do but other than biting her back > there was nothing else to do) > Marie

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Even *I* agree with it, as long as the parent has a firm hold on their > sense of vengeance and can distinguish between vengeance and education, > and can bite only while the child is biting and can increase their > bite-pressure only slowly and release when they release. > Steve > What if the child bites fast and runs away? When my daughter went through > her biting stage, she’d bite her sister quickly and run away. So no one > could bite her until she let go, because she had already let go. > I personally don’t agree with biting them back in any case. When we saw she > was doing this more than a few times we just tried to talk to her and show > her the teeth marks and tell her it hurt. Just waited that stage out. (not > that I’m saying it’s the best thing to do but other than biting her back > there was nothing else to do) > Marie

Then I would catch her immediately and bite her back in careful vengeance. She was clearly avoiding correction for a definite assault on another and that makes it premeditated and calculated. And that’s enough to deserve a consequential punishment rather than merely a training episode. I would even bite her HARDER than she bit her sibling till she stopped it. Only a child without the sense to flee deserves a consideration for ignorance’ sake. I would also bully bullies, which is what all tribal cultures do, they prove to the bully that bullying doesn’t work because there is always someone or SOMEONES who are bigger or stronger, as a group if need be. A child or person has a right to their feelings and actions as long as they don’t harm others, and no farther!! Period. Steve

Response:

Well shut my mouth – Steve and I agree on something. My kids are way past this stage but I had one who was an awful biter – nothing worked until I bit him back, slowly in the way Steve says. He didn’t bite again. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >You have been very fortunate then.  I spent over a month, paid two Dr bills > >for other children that my child bit hard enough to draw blood on, and tried > >all of the things you discuss.  After we bit back twice it stopped.  Just my > >experience, but all children respond differently to your "positive > >parenting". > >Don’t get me wrong, I think all of those things are wonderful parenting > >techniques and should be incorporated into all parenting.  I do those things > >regularly.  However, I do not think that you can always employ them to the > >complete exception of any punitive consequences. > >Nique (prepared to be majorly flamed on this one) > I’m with you.  Toto’s answer is a case of child-rearing ideology crashing > headlong into a simple, uncomplicated reality.  There’s a stage  for > toddlers when they just bite because the biting feels good to them.  And > all the "find out what’s wrong" and treat that approach falls flat because > there’s nothing really wrong.  (And Steve’s "you shoudln’t make them mad" > answer is just hilarious – I doubt he’s really day-to-day raised a > toddler.) > The "bite back" approach isn’t a punishment – it’s a teaching.  Indeed, > it’s a useful early lesson in how one’s actions affects others.  The > toddler doesn’t know *why* it’s a problem until you demonstrate. > Banty > Even *I* agree with it, as long as the parent has a firm hold on their > sense of vengeance and can distinguish between vengeance and education, > and can bite only while the child is biting and can increase their > bite-pressure only slowly and release when they release. > Steve

Response:

> Even *I* agree with it, as long as the parent has a firm hold on their > sense of vengeance and can distinguish between vengeance and education, > and can bite only while the child is biting and can increase their > bite-pressure only slowly and release when they release. > Steve

What if the child bites fast and runs away? When my daughter went through her biting stage, she’d bite her sister quickly and run away. So no one could bite her until she let go, because she had already let go. I personally don’t agree with biting them back in any case. When we saw she was doing this more than a few times we just tried to talk to her and show her the teeth marks and tell her it hurt. Just waited that stage out. (not that I’m saying it’s the best thing to do but other than biting her back there was nothing else to do) Marie

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->You have been very fortunate then.  I spent over a month, paid two Dr bills >for other children that my child bit hard enough to draw blood on, and tried >all of the things you discuss.  After we bit back twice it stopped.  Just my >experience, but all children respond differently to your "positive >parenting". >Don’t get me wrong, I think all of those things are wonderful parenting >techniques and should be incorporated into all parenting.  I do those things >regularly.  However, I do not think that you can always employ them to the >complete exception of any punitive consequences. >Nique (prepared to be majorly flamed on this one) > I’m with you.  Toto’s answer is a case of child-rearing ideology crashing > headlong into a simple, uncomplicated reality.  There’s a stage  for > toddlers when they just bite because the biting feels good to them.  And > all the "find out what’s wrong" and treat that approach falls flat because > there’s nothing really wrong.  (And Steve’s "you shoudln’t make them mad" > answer is just hilarious – I doubt he’s really day-to-day raised a > toddler.) > The "bite back" approach isn’t a punishment – it’s a teaching.  Indeed, > it’s a useful early lesson in how one’s actions affects others.  The > toddler doesn’t know *why* it’s a problem until you demonstrate. > Banty

Even *I* agree with it, as long as the parent has a firm hold on their sense of vengeance and can distinguish between vengeance and education, and can bite only while the child is biting and can increase their bite-pressure only slowly and release when they release. Steve

Response:

>You have been very fortunate then.  I spent over a month, paid two Dr bills >for other children that my child bit hard enough to draw blood on, and tried >all of the things you discuss.  After we bit back twice it stopped.  Just my >experience, but all children respond differently to your "positive >parenting". >Don’t get me wrong, I think all of those things are wonderful parenting >techniques and should be incorporated into all parenting.  I do those things >regularly.  However, I do not think that you can always employ them to the >complete exception of any punitive consequences. >Nique (prepared to be majorly flamed on this one)

I’m with you.  Toto’s answer is a case of child-rearing ideology crashing headlong into a simple, uncomplicated reality.  There’s a stage  for toddlers when they just bite because the biting feels good to them.  And all the "find out what’s wrong" and treat that approach falls flat because there’s nothing really wrong.  (And Steve’s "you shoudln’t make them mad" answer is just hilarious – I doubt he’s really day-to-day raised a toddler.) The "bite back" approach isn’t a punishment – it’s a teaching.  Indeed, it’s a useful early lesson in how one’s actions affects others.  The toddler doesn’t know *why* it’s a problem until you demonstrate. Banty

Response:

My daughter was teething at the time she got into biting.  I was startled to receive the biting report from my daycare provider.  I started asking questions, and discovered it was a new found use for her teeth for one, as well as a convenient defense against some kids who liked to grab things out of her hands. The first time she bit someone she drew blood.  When I saw her do it, I bit her to show her how it felt.  Not enough to cause a lot of pain, but enough to startle her, and she cried.  Biting back seemed to solve it, but only for a few days.  It also taught her that two wrongs DO make a right.  The second time I did this, she bit me in return for biting her. She made three other attempts to bite other children after that, which myself and the daycare provider caught her on and said "niiiiiiiiiiiice!" and moved her body in a manner that showed her how to resolve the conflict without biting, and she got the point about the fifth time.  The biting just stopped after that.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->You have been very fortunate then.  I spent over a month, paid two Dr bills >for other children that my child bit hard enough to draw blood on, and tried >all of the things you discuss.  After we bit back twice it stopped.  Just my >experience, but all children respond differently to your "positive >parenting". >Don’t get me wrong, I think all of those things are wonderful parenting >techniques and should be incorporated into all parenting.  I do those things >regularly.  However, I do not think that you can always employ them to the >complete exception of any punitive consequences. >Nique (prepared to be majorly flamed on this one) > I’m with you.  Toto’s answer is a case of child-rearing ideology crashing > headlong into a simple, uncomplicated reality.  There’s a stage  for > toddlers when they just bite because the biting feels good to them.  And > all the "find out what’s wrong" and treat that approach falls flat because > there’s nothing really wrong.  (And Steve’s "you shoudln’t make them mad" > answer is just hilarious – I doubt he’s really day-to-day raised a > toddler.) > The "bite back" approach isn’t a punishment – it’s a teaching.  Indeed, > it’s a useful early lesson in how one’s actions affects others.  The > toddler doesn’t know *why* it’s a problem until you demonstrate. > Banty

Response:

> Any suggestions for dealing with a 1 1/2 to 2 year old biter? > — > The Merretts……

It depends on when they do it and why. Are they pissed off and angry and offended and expressing rage? If so, then stop doing things to them that provoke their rage!!! You know what they are, and those are NOT your right to do to them!! You need to learn to ask their permission to touch them or mess up their immediate plans, and to apologize if you actually genuionely HAVE to and are not just being highhanded, and you should reward them for tolerating you later! But if they just bit you once and got a rise out of you and so now they think it’s a "neat trick" (they smile at you) then simply do this: When they bite, take their same member of their body that they are biting on yours and hold it in your teeth and VERY slowly increase pressure and bite down till they stop biting you. They will stop and giggle at you like it’s a joke!! Giggle back at them, after once or twice they will stop and be satisified that you’re a real person too! I think that kids do that because they are not quite sure if we feel like they do!! Once they really know we’re vulnerable too, they stop if they love you. And of course, whether they love you is up to YOU to make yourself lovable to them. Steve

Response:

You have been very fortunate then.  I spent over a month, paid two Dr bills for other children that my child bit hard enough to draw blood on, and tried all of the things you discuss.  After we bit back twice it stopped.  Just my experience, but all children respond differently to your "positive parenting". Don’t get me wrong, I think all of those things are wonderful parenting techniques and should be incorporated into all parenting.  I do those things regularly.  However, I do not think that you can always employ them to the complete exception of any punitive consequences. Nique (prepared to be majorly flamed on this one)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->And after you have done all of that and the child still bites?  Then what? >Nique > Kids are not stupid.  They learn to empathize with others pain if > we do.  Now if we hit, bite or yell, then they will do something > similar..  If we treat them with kindness, comfort the person who is > hurt and show them how to do that, then the biting will most > certainly not last. > I’ve never had this last longer than a few days for a toddler in > daycare..   Teething is a bit harder, but eventually, the teeth do > come in. > Dorothy >> >Any suggestions for dealing with a 1 1/2 to 2 year old biter? >> Find the cause – >> If it is teething, then provide something that >> the child can bite and clip it to his clothing. When s/he bites >> say: "people are not for biting. you can bite this and hand him >> or her the toy" >> If the cause is language and frustration, shadow the child and >> provide language s/he can use.  Again, say "people are not for >> biting, use words and tell her what you want" and provide the >> words by guessing.  Supervise your child. >> If she is biting *you,* in frustration, say "ouch." in a loud voice >> or "that hurts." and put her down so that she cannot bite you again. >> It may help to *overreact* so she really knows it hurts.  You may >> want to teach her baby signs so that if she is asking you for >> something and doesn’t have the words, she can sign it to you and >> not be so frustrated about that. >> Dorothy >> There is no sound, no cry in all the world >> that can be heard unless someone listens .. >> source unknown > There is no sound, no cry in all the world > that can be heard unless someone listens .. > source unknown

Response:

>And after you have done all of that and the child still bites?  Then what? >Nique

Kids are not stupid.  They learn to empathize with others pain if we do.  Now if we hit, bite or yell, then they will do something similar..  If we treat them with kindness, comfort the person who is hurt and show them how to do that, then the biting will most certainly not last. I’ve never had this last longer than a few days for a toddler in daycare..   Teething is a bit harder, but eventually, the teeth do come in. Dorothy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Any suggestions for dealing with a 1 1/2 to 2 year old biter? > Find the cause – > If it is teething, then provide something that > the child can bite and clip it to his clothing. When s/he bites > say: "people are not for biting. you can bite this and hand him > or her the toy" > If the cause is language and frustration, shadow the child and > provide language s/he can use.  Again, say "people are not for > biting, use words and tell her what you want" and provide the > words by guessing.  Supervise your child. > If she is biting *you,* in frustration, say "ouch." in a loud voice > or "that hurts." and put her down so that she cannot bite you again. > It may help to *overreact* so she really knows it hurts.  You may > want to teach her baby signs so that if she is asking you for > something and doesn’t have the words, she can sign it to you and > not be so frustrated about that. > Dorothy > There is no sound, no cry in all the world > that can be heard unless someone listens .. > source unknown

There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. source unknown

Response:

I am glad to see I am not alone…..I definitely agree with the "bite back" theory.  I don’t think that a 1-3 year old understands the pain they are inflicting unless you show them. Kate

Response:

>Any suggestions for dealing with a 1 1/2 to 2 year old biter?

Find the cause – If it is teething, then provide something that the child can bite and clip it to his clothing. When s/he bites say: "people are not for biting. you can bite this and hand him or her the toy" If the cause is language and frustration, shadow the child and provide language s/he can use.  Again, say "people are not for biting, use words and tell her what you want" and provide the words by guessing.  Supervise your child. If she is biting *you,* in frustration, say "ouch." in a loud voice or "that hurts." and put her down so that she cannot bite you again. It may help to *overreact* so she really knows it hurts.  You may want to teach her baby signs so that if she is asking you for something and doesn’t have the words, she can sign it to you and not be so frustrated about that. Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. source unknown

Response:

And after you have done all of that and the child still bites?  Then what? Nique

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Any suggestions for dealing with a 1 1/2 to 2 year old biter? > Find the cause – > If it is teething, then provide something that > the child can bite and clip it to his clothing. When s/he bites > say: "people are not for biting. you can bite this and hand him > or her the toy" > If the cause is language and frustration, shadow the child and > provide language s/he can use.  Again, say "people are not for > biting, use words and tell her what you want" and provide the > words by guessing.  Supervise your child. > If she is biting *you,* in frustration, say "ouch." in a loud voice > or "that hurts." and put her down so that she cannot bite you again. > It may help to *overreact* so she really knows it hurts.  You may > want to teach her baby signs so that if she is asking you for > something and doesn’t have the words, she can sign it to you and > not be so frustrated about that. > Dorothy > There is no sound, no cry in all the world > that can be heard unless someone listens .. > source unknown

Response:

> Any suggestions for dealing with a 1 1/2 to 2 year old biter?

Bite back!!!!!

Response:

>Any suggestions for dealing with a 1 1/2 to 2 year old biter?

Depends on the details. But, at 1 1/2 to 2 years old, the biter likely hasn’t figured out that biting hurts the bitee.  So… what worked immediately for my son….bite back! Banty

Response:

We always just said "no biting",  put the child down, and walked away. Charlotte bit more than Patrick did.  It worked for both kids though. Later, Sophie mom to Charlotte (2.6 yrs) and Patrick (13 months)

Response:

Any suggestions for dealing with a 1 1/2 to 2 year old biter? — The Merretts……

Response:

I am going to get flamed for this one, but the only thing that worked with my daughter when she went through that was to bite her back.  Not hard enough to do damage, but hard enough for her to understand that biting is painful to the other person.  Once she got bit back twice, she quit doing it. Nique

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Any suggestions for dealing with a 1 1/2 to 2 year old biter? > — > The Merretts……

Response: