Question:
> Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
Oh you mean like Jolly Ol’ Unarmed England. Whoops, a 16 year old went on a shooting spree in one of THOSE schools too. Or do you ignore that? HerrGlock — UNIX – Not just for vestal virgins anymore Linux – Choice of a GNU generation
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| That is silly. When people blame guns or video games or any one of a number | of other things it always amazes me. The desire to not want to admit that | some people are just evil or sick is so strong that people have to blame | objects. It is silly to base what everyone must do in society on a few sick | members. If society takes away guns in the name of protecting people or | regulates video games in the name of protecting people it only accomplishes | one thing. It takes away the most important aspect of society which is | freedom. Having guns in your society takes away people’s freedom to live when guns are used against them. The freedom to live surely outweighs the freedom some in your society want. I.E. the freedom to poses the means of taking that freedom away. I am continually thankful that I live in a society where the gun laws are strict. It seams crazy to have ‘gun shops’ where you can walk in and buy a gun as if you were going to the food store.
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| We’re not fools at all. Well, may atwood is, but not gun owners. | | We have a Constitution that guarantees our rights. | | Freedom is freedom to choose. 80 million of us choose to own guns. 2.8-3.0 | million of us choose to join a lobby group to fight against guys like atwood | who are moving heaven and earth to invalidate those rights. | | We have the right to do this under the 1st Amendment. Surely the right to live comes under the 1st Amendment, this right is being taken away by other people practicing the right to own & use guns. I’m not necessarily saying that there should be a complete ban on guns, (taking away your precious 1st Amendment) but strict laws, licencing and regulation of where and how they are kept will go a long way to preventing the occurence of recent tragedies over there. | This is what freedom of speech is about. [Which, by the way, the UK and | Canada DO NOT have!] the UK and Canada DO NOT have freedom of speech?? | However, our opponents are not content with losing, based upon facts, legal | scholarship, and ~2.8 million adult voters, who are willing to visit | retribution on legislators who vote for gun control at the polls, they are | now resorting to converting gun owners into the Jews of the 21st Century. It | is becoming increasingly clear to gun owners, that the current attack on gun | ownership is a close parallel to the attacks on Jews in 1936 Germany. Any | student of history ought to see the parallels in the agitprop being used | against us now. There is no parallel there
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>We have a Constitution that guarantees our rights.
No right is unrestricted. The extremist view of the 2d amendment isn’t based in law but upon a mixture of paranoia, fanaticism and wishful thinking. >Freedom is freedom to choose. 80 million of us choose to own guns. 2.8-3.0 >million of us choose to join a lobby group to fight against guys like atwood >who are moving heaven and earth to invalidate those rights.
And 9% of your lobbying group participates in NRA elections. The other 91% join so they can get a sticker to put on their window. >We have the right to do this under the 1st Amendment. >We have the right to speak out against people like atwood, who in other >posts indicates that he supports the incineration of children — which was >done as the end result of enforcing a gun control law.
Yes, and I have the right to call you exactly what you are — selfish, irresponsible, heartless, paranoid, extremist fanatics who, even in the face of massacres of children, won’t lift a finger to keep your toys out of the hands of your children. If you won’t do it, then we’ll do it for you. And one thing I guarantee, when non-gun owners do this, it’s going to be a lot tougher on you than if you’d tell your nutcase organizations to straighten up and pitch in with some constructive solutions. >Make no mistake, atwood hates gun owners….and he especially hate NRA >members.
I don’t hate gun owners, and my participation here shows I obviously don’t fear them. Hunters, sport shooters and people who need a gun for protection are o.k. by me. I also don’t hate NRA members, especially the ones who join so they can get a sticker. It’s understandable that if you live in a high-crime neighborhood or you’ve had your truck stolen, you might want and NRA sticker or two in hopes of deterring a thief — or a gun for protection, as a last resort. I do think that as a political fringe group, the NRA has seriously screwed up by joining the ranks of the political extremists who have crowded out hunters and sportsmen. It’s a shame, because legitimate gun owners will suffer from the efforts of their fanatical fringe. Of course, maybe this is only fair, since the "responsible" gun owners never spoke up. If you remain silent, the extremists take over. It happens all the time. >Folks like atwood like to blame "exremists" and "fanatics" and the "gun >lobby" for preventing the grand dream of the elimination of private >ownership of guns. Notice the slant: If you argue with him (or them), you >are a fanatic, and extremist, or a member of the gun lobby.
I do not oppose private ownership of firearms. I have said this repeatedly, yet the extremists in this NG simply choose to lie about what I believe. I want sensible regulation to keep guns out of the hands of kids, crooks and nutcases, and I simply do not recognize a political motive for gun ownership. While I don’t recognize such a motive, however, I wouldn’t establish some kind of thought police to screen out people who buy a gun for that reason. All I want is for gun ownership to be restricted to law abiding, responsible adults over the age of 21, or to kids who are accompanied by such adults. This shouldn’t be controversial, except to selfish, irresponsible fanatics who thirst for some kind of second American civil war, as many of you obviously do. >We are demons for not lying down and taking the abuse we have been receiving >because of two fuckwits in Colorado and a jagoff in Georgia. [By the way, >did you know the the seller of the "deadly assault weapon" used at Columbine >was the child of an Handgun Control, Inc., activist? How convient...]
Oh, so now you’re implying that Handgun Control organized the Columbine massacre? Does your conspiracy paranoia know no bounds? What ugly lies you tell. > The streets aren’t running in blood and as more and more >states allow non-discretionary CCW ownership, they are getting safer — >because the lives of criminals are getting more dangerous.]
Tell this to the parents of the children murdered in cold blood. The schools *are* "running in blood." That’s why people are concerned. I guess you just don’t care that in Colorado a killer walked up to a kid, shot him in the head, and then said to his accomplice, I always wanted to know what nigger brains looked like. Or that a killer walked up to a young girl, asked if she believed in God, and murdered her when she said yes. Or that a young athlete will never walk again. Nope, these things don’t matter a bit to you. Because you’ve got your toys and you want to not only keep them but have the right to sell them to anyone you please. The world is your playpen! >Nevertheless. We are demons for reminding people that the NRA did NOT order >the killings, nor had any responsibility for them.
No, the issue is that the NRA refuses to accept any responsibility, just like Hollywood refuses, like the schools refuse, parents refuse and the police refuse. The light gets switched on and everyone runs like cockroaches to the corners of American life and say, "Not my fault. Blame that guy over there." This is not the spirit that made America what it is. It is cover-your-ass denial and selfishness of the kind we’ve seen out of so many people in the past 40 years. Come on, face up to the problems and work on constructive solutions. You gun owners parade yourselves as patriots, and often as conservatives interested in traditional family values. So, is getting murdered at school a traditional value? What the hell is wrong with this picture? You’re selfish little spoiled brats like so many other people are these days. Look in the mirror! See yourselves as you are seen by others. I don’t want to seize your guns, well at least not the first five guns in your home arsenals anyway. Those of you who are crack-brained criminal nutcases and political weirdos probably should worry about gun control. But those of you who are really responsible gun owners — not many on this NG, but I still think plenty among gun owners in general — have nothing to fear. > they are >now resorting to converting gun owners into the Jews of the 21st Century. It >is becoming increasingly clear to gun owners, that the current attack on gun >ownership is a close parallel to the attacks on Jews in 1936 Germany. Any >student of history ought to see the parallels in the agitprop being used >against us now.
More maudlin paranoia from extremist fanatics. This sort of rhetoric and 75 cents will buy you a cup of coffee at McDonald’s. "Jews of the 21st Century." What a crock! >And when we do post here, atwood and others call us criminals and >extremists.
Not sure about the criminal part, I don’t really know, although the resistance to screening at gun shows certainly supports the criminal element. As for extremists, if the shoe fits then wear it.
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I grossly took out of context the following remark by Dufus: >Maybe even a hammer and cycle?
What’s that? Thor on a Harley? Really though, the original post should have been ignored, as it was grossly off topic.
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In his post, George of the Jungle signed off with: >Chief Justice Earl Warren:
"Today, as always, the people, no less than their courts, must remain vigilant to preserve the principles of our Bill of Rights, lest in our desire to be secure we lose our ability to be free." New York University, 1962, 3rd annual James Madison Lecture Isn’t this the same Earl Warren who, as California Attorney General, enthusiastically pushed for the removal of over 100,000 Japanese-Americans from their homes despite J. Edgar Hoover’s insistence that there was no indication of espionage activity by members of that community (and, indeed, no Japanese-American was ever tried for espionage)? Warren may have turned out, in the end, to be one of our most liberal Supreme Court Justices, but his conduct during the early 40’s was pretty reprehensible.
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— origin: alt.parenting.solutions: >|Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >|before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. >| >|Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you >|get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love >|affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. >| >|What fools you Americans really are.
Why don’t you come out from behind your cloak of anonymity and say that? Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil." BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World." ICQ 26776011 | — Bardic Motto If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all. —- Noam Chomsky
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— origin: alt.parenting.solutions: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >|>Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >|>before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc >|etc. >|> >|>Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until >|you >|>get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your >|love >|>affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to >|you. >|> >|>What fools you Americans really are. >| >| >|The reaon we’re fools is that we’ve given special interests too much power. >|The gun lobby and violence-promoting entertainment sellers need to be >|restrained, and schools and police need to be induced to be stricter in >|enforcing the laws.
Maybe you should start by doing a better job of raising your kids. You can impose your values on your kids, stop wasting time trying to impose them on society at large. OTOH, if the kids are too much trouble for you, adopt them out to someone who *will* raise them properly. Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil." BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World." ICQ 26776011 | — Bardic Motto If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all. —- Noam Chomsky
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* This message did not originate from the Sender address above. It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software. * I have no respect for the opinion of a person who goes to such great lengths to be anonymous. If you can’t stand proudly behind your opinions, then you should not state them. Maharet — "Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." ~Unknown
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Sieg heil! >Let us know when you’re having your First Amendment burning party, Atwood. >In the meantime, you might want to ponder that we don’t "give" special >interests power, they have it by virtue of the fact that millions of >voters (you know, actual people — the sort you’re trying to muzzle >and "restrain") all feel the same way and make their feelings known >to their representatives. >It’s such a bitch when people who disagree with you get to have a >say in our society, isn’t it? Not to worry — I’m sure you’ll figure >out a proper way to "restrain" them if you think long enough. Your >intellectual forbearers already came up with a "final solution" >I’m sure would be right up your alley.
Tell it to the parents of the kids massacred in schools because the gun fringe won’t find a way to keep their toys out of the hands of children.
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>Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. >Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you >get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love >affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. >What fools you Americans really are.
The reaon we’re fools is that we’ve given special interests too much power. The gun lobby and violence-promoting entertainment sellers need to be restrained, and schools and police need to be induced to be stricter in enforcing the laws.
Response:
That is silly. When people blame guns or video games or any one of a number of other things it always amazes me. The desire to not want to admit that some people are just evil or sick is so strong that people have to blame objects. It is silly to base what everyone must do in society on a few sick members. If society takes away guns in the name of protecting people or regulates video games in the name of protecting people it only accomplishes one thing. It takes away the most important aspect of society which is freedom. The few among society who are sick will simply find other outlets and methods to vent their murder. This can be an endless cycle but at each crossroad another freedom is lost.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
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>Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. >Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you >get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love >affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. >What fools you Americans really are.
It has been reported that the parents of the shooter had recently given him a gun for his birthday present. Only in America folks.
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> Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
We’re fools because we keep electing politicians like ‘Fineswine’ Feinstein, ’Schmukie’ Schumer, Teddy ‘Bear" Kennedy (who’s killed more people with his car than I have with all my guns put together), and the most noble of all - the pot smoking, draft dodging, lying, rapist currently residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Just keep in mind _all_ these events, beginning with Waco happened on our Chief Philander’s watch. And then there are the anonymous CS posters like you! F___ing troll ! ! ! ! — Fear out of experience is . . .to be conquered; Fear out of ignorance is . . . . to be stupid! Larry L. Taylor
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Andie, you forgot that guns won our freedom from England. Kept us free from the French and Spain, freed the slaves. Freed Europe in WWi, got rid of Hitler in WWii and freed the jews held in prison camps. Held off the Imperial country of Japan. Got Sadam out of Kuwait. Just think, Ron Goldman and Nicole may still be here if one had a gun. No knife could be a match to the gun!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It will be difficult for America to abandon their current policies on guns, since > the frontier mentality is still quite pervasive. After all, it was through > guns(violence) that the founding fathers managed to eradicate most of the native > Americans. The NATO(US) attack on Yugoslavia is yet another manifestation of the US > frontier mentality. > Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
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>Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. >Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you >get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love >affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. >What fools you Americans really are.
This shit happens all the time in Black neighborhoods but its never reported. It’s funny back when we had no gun control laws we had no school shootings. Trying to get rid of guns in America will be as effective as try to get rid of drugs have been. These kids go on these shooting attacks because all the liberal teachers and their socialist ideas being pounded in their head.
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Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. What fools you Americans really are.
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"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." — Samuel Adams – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
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It will be difficult for America to abandon their current policies on guns, since the frontier mentality is still quite pervasive. After all, it was through guns(violence) that the founding fathers managed to eradicate most of the native Americans. The NATO(US) attack on Yugoslavia is yet another manifestation of the US frontier mentality. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
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>It has been reported that the parents of the shooter had recently given him >a gun for his birthday present. Only in America folks.
If you believe that people in other countries don’t give their kids gun for birthday presents, then *you’re* the fool here. — "I worry about my judgment when anything I believe in or do regularly begins to be accepted by the American public." — George Carlin
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>The reaon we’re fools is that we’ve given special interests too much power. >The gun lobby and violence-promoting entertainment sellers need to be >restrained,
Sieg heil! Let us know when you’re having your First Amendment burning party, Atwood. In the meantime, you might want to ponder that we don’t "give" special interests power, they have it by virtue of the fact that millions of voters (you know, actual people — the sort you’re trying to muzzle and "restrain") all feel the same way and make their feelings known to their representatives. It’s such a bitch when people who disagree with you get to have a say in our society, isn’t it? Not to worry — I’m sure you’ll figure out a proper way to "restrain" them if you think long enough. Your intellectual forbearers already came up with a "final solution" I’m sure would be right up your alley. — "I worry about my judgment when anything I believe in or do regularly begins to be accepted by the American public." — George Carlin
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Yes, we Americans are fools. Freedom loving fools! Were it not for our forefathers who carried arms we in the U.S. could be marching to a different anthem…maybe even having the old Union Jack flag flying instead of the Stars and Stripes! Maybe even a hammer and cycle? Get rid of our guns, you say? Why? So some third world tyrant can take from us our very heritage and subjugate us? Allow some self-appointed despot to rule our lives while we cower in the shadows? You may believe that more government is a good thing..we in the U.S. do not..never have. We are not followers, rabbits being led by the self-appointed elite. What is "happening" to us? Our borders are being overrun by those whose dream it is to come to the U.S. with the hope of a better life for them and their families. Can your country offer that? We are reaping what we have sowed…freedom from repression, equal opportunity for all who want to work, and best of all the FREEDOM to DISAGREE and voice our opinions! Lastly…use your brain..every society has misfits..ableit even yours. Sick persons are a world-wide plague. PS: Abortions kill more people in one month than all the gun deaths put together in the last 100 years. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc > etc. >Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until > you >get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your > love >affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to > you. >What fools you Americans really are. > It has been reported that the parents of the shooter had recently given him > a gun for his birthday present. Only in America folks.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc >etc. >Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until >you >get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your >love >affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to >you. >What fools you Americans really are. >The reaon we’re fools is that we’ve given special interests too much power. >The gun lobby and violence-promoting entertainment sellers need to be >restrained, and schools and police need to be induced to be stricter in >enforcing the laws.
We’re not fools at all. Well, may atwood is, but not gun owners. We have a Constitution that guarantees our rights. Freedom is freedom to choose. 80 million of us choose to own guns. 2.8-3.0 million of us choose to join a lobby group to fight against guys like atwood who are moving heaven and earth to invalidate those rights. We have the right to do this under the 1st Amendment. We have the right to speak out against people like atwood, who in other posts indicates that he supports the incineration of children — which was done as the end result of enforcing a gun control law. We have the right to protest the efforts of atwood and others in this newsgroup (and in the media) who are making gun owners into demons, in order to advance their agenda. Make no mistake, atwood hates gun owners….and he especially hate NRA members. Now let’s take the UK. First they took away their guns (England never had a 2nd Amendment). Now they want to take away the right to a jury trial. (Oops, no 5th Amendment either!) In case you were sleeping in your History class that day, Mr. Anonymous, the Magna Carta (which was signed by King John at the point of a sword), won the right to a jury trial by a jury of peers. Play particular attentioin to the fact that it took FORCE of ARMS to get the right to a jury trial. And now that the English no longer have arms, look how easy it is for them to do away with a trial by jury! Folks like atwood like to blame "exremists" and "fanatics" and the "gun lobby" for preventing the grand dream of the elimination of private ownership of guns. Notice the slant: If you argue with him (or them), you are a fanatic, and extremist, or a member of the gun lobby. Never mind that we have the right to object and fight him in the court of public opinion (which is what a lobby really does!). Never mind we have the right to organize a lobby. To him and the other gun grabbers on this list, we are DEMONS for doing so. We are demons for not lying down and taking the abuse we have been receiving because of two fuckwits in Colorado and a jagoff in Georgia. [By the way, did you know the the seller of the "deadly assault weapon" used at Columbine was the child of an Handgun Control, Inc., activist? How convient...] We are demons for refusing to accept group guilt for the actions of criminals. We are demons for reminding people that there are 80 million gun owners who DID NOT KILL ANYBODY! The same 80 million people who own the 250 million guns in this country. Whose attention to safety and responsibility has resulted in a remarkably LOW rate of missuse. [If you listen to atwood and his fellow gun grabbers, you'd think that these 80 million gun owners are slaughtering people left and right. Well, it isn't so, Joe. The streets aren't running in blood and as more and more states allow non-discretionary CCW ownership, they are getting safer -- because the lives of criminals are getting more dangerous.] Nevertheless. We are demons for reminding people that the NRA did NOT order the killings, nor had any responsibility for them. We MUST be demonized in order for the agenda to advance. The kind of abuse being heaped upon NRA members and gun owners is part and parcel of a vicious propaganda campaign. Gun grabbers, like atwood, hate the NRA because as the largest gun owner organization, they have been successful in protecting the rights of ALL gun owners from the activities a small minority of vocal proponents of gun confiscation. They have the right to advocate what they want — confiscate guns. We have the right to advocate what we want. This is what freedom of speech is about. [Which, by the way, the UK and Canada DO NOT have!] However, our opponents are not content with losing, based upon facts, legal scholarship, and ~2.8 million adult voters, who are willing to visit retribution on legislators who vote for gun control at the polls, they are now resorting to converting gun owners into the Jews of the 21st Century. It is becoming increasingly clear to gun owners, that the current attack on gun ownership is a close parallel to the attacks on Jews in 1936 Germany. Any student of history ought to see the parallels in the agitprop being used against us now. And when we do post here, atwood and others call us criminals and extremists. [New sign at O'Hare Airport] "Welcome to Chicago, Murder Capital of the US, Richard M. Daley, Mayor, Where Gun Control Works To Raise the Homicide Rate" On the defeat of his gun control agenda in the Illinois Legislature, Mayor Daley said: "This is an uphill fight. I understand that. We’re up against an industry that hides behind the Constitution." Fitting language from a so-called "lawyer" that failed the Illinois Bar Exam multiple times… — Please do not send email. Support the anti-Spam amendment Join at http://www.cauce.org/ "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anything offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor will I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warnings to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival of the online community." "The Boulder Pledge", devised by Roger Ebert at the Conference on World Affairs at the University of Colorado http://www3.zdnet.com/yil/content/mag/9612/ebert9612.html
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc >etc. >Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until >you >get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your >love >affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to >you. >What fools you Americans really are. >It has been reported that the parents of the shooter had recently given him >a gun for his birthday present. Only in America folks.
It was reported that the gun given to the killers in Columbine came from the child of members of your organization, Handgun Control, Inc. Care to comment about this, Albert? Do you think HCI should be listed as a co-defendent in the inevitable tort? I do. Only in America, can Albert blame the parents when their kids break into the gun cabinet, steal the guns, and shoot others — while at the same time, keep silent about the gun control activist parents whose child WILLFULLY, and WILLINGLY, SOLD his gun to a pair of mass murders. Chief Justice Earl Warren: "Today, as always, the people, no less than their courts, must remain vigilant to preserve the principles of our Bill of Rights, lest in our desire to be secure we lose our ability to be free." New York University, 1962, 3rd annual James Madison Lecture — Please do not send email. Support the anti-Spam amendment Join at http://www.cauce.org/ "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anything offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor will I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warnings to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival of the online community." "The Boulder Pledge", devised by Roger Ebert at the Conference on World Affairs at the University of Colorado http://www3.zdnet.com/yil/content/mag/9612/ebert9612.html
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Guffaw! Frontier menality? ROTFL! The right to keep and bear arms was guarenteed by the 2nd Amendment in order to prevent the new government from becoming tyranny. In the Federalist papers, number 46, Madison writes: Quote: …That the people and the States should, for a sufficient period of time, elect an uninterupted succession of men ready to betray both; that the traitors should, throughout this period, uniformly and systematically pursue some fixed plan for the extension of the military establishment; that the governments and the people of the States should silently and patiently behold the gathering storm, and continue to supply the materials, until it should be prepared to burst on their own heads, must appear to every one more like the incoherent dreams of a delirious jealousy, or the misjudged exaggerations of a counterfeit zeal, than like the sober apprehensions of genuine patriotism. Extravagant as the supposition is, let it however be made. Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger. The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth part of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. Those who are best acquainted with the last successful resistance of this country against the British arms, will be most inclined to deny the possibility of it. Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Endquote Madison, who agreed to submit what became the 2nd Amendment to the states as part of the Bill of Rights, says (in the convoluted language of the 18th Century), that if the government starts to act tyranically, they would be opposed by a much larger numerical majority of armed citizens, who would be led by their friends and neighbors. He says that Americans have the advantage of being armed and that coupled with local leaders, will prevail against a tyrannical federal government. Congress, in 1792, followed up by enacting the Militia Acts. This Act made it mandatory for all men of military age to (1) possess a gun, (2) and purchase within 5 years, the then-current state of the art, assault rifle, (3) to show up for regular drill in the Militia. "Frontier mentality" has nothing to do with it. Gun ownership has a political and a national defense purpose. As for Kosovo: Murder in the name of the People of the United States is being done under the orders of a man who sold missile technology to, and blocked investigation of nuclear weapon espionage by, China — in exchange for campaign contributions. A man who has sold us out, in other words. A man who is a pathological liar and a rapist. A man who has shown no compunctions in the past to bomb innocent people in the Sudan to divert attention from his impeachment. Again, "Frontier mentality" has nothing to do with it. It is the act of a corrupt man. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >It will be difficult for America to abandon their current policies on guns, since >the frontier mentality is still quite pervasive. After all, it was through >guns(violence) that the founding fathers managed to eradicate most of the native >Americans. The NATO(US) attack on Yugoslavia is yet another manifestation of the US >frontier mentality. > Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
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| That is silly. When people blame guns or video games or any one of a number | of other things it always amazes me. The desire to not want to admit that | some people are just evil or sick is so strong that people have to blame | objects. It is silly to base what everyone must do in society on a few sick | members. If society takes away guns in the name of protecting people or | regulates video games in the name of protecting people it only accomplishes | one thing. It takes away the most important aspect of society which is | freedom. Having guns in your society takes away people’s freedom to live when guns are used against them. The freedom to live surely outweighs the freedom some in your society want. I.E. the freedom to poses the means of taking that freedom away. I am continually thankful that I live in a society where the gun laws are strict. It seams crazy to have ‘gun shops’ where you can walk in and buy a gun as if you were going to the food store.
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>We have a Constitution that guarantees our rights.
No right is unrestricted. The extremist view of the 2d amendment isn’t based in law but upon a mixture of paranoia, fanaticism and wishful thinking. >Freedom is freedom to choose. 80 million of us choose to own guns. 2.8-3.0 >million of us choose to join a lobby group to fight against guys like atwood >who are moving heaven and earth to invalidate those rights.
And 9% of your lobbying group participates in NRA elections. The other 91% join so they can get a sticker to put on their window. >We have the right to do this under the 1st Amendment. >We have the right to speak out against people like atwood, who in other >posts indicates that he supports the incineration of children — which was >done as the end result of enforcing a gun control law.
Yes, and I have the right to call you exactly what you are — selfish, irresponsible, heartless, paranoid, extremist fanatics who, even in the face of massacres of children, won’t lift a finger to keep your toys out of the hands of your children. If you won’t do it, then we’ll do it for you. And one thing I guarantee, when non-gun owners do this, it’s going to be a lot tougher on you than if you’d tell your nutcase organizations to straighten up and pitch in with some constructive solutions. >Make no mistake, atwood hates gun owners….and he especially hate NRA >members.
I don’t hate gun owners, and my participation here shows I obviously don’t fear them. Hunters, sport shooters and people who need a gun for protection are o.k. by me. I also don’t hate NRA members, especially the ones who join so they can get a sticker. It’s understandable that if you live in a high-crime neighborhood or you’ve had your truck stolen, you might want and NRA sticker or two in hopes of deterring a thief — or a gun for protection, as a last resort. I do think that as a political fringe group, the NRA has seriously screwed up by joining the ranks of the political extremists who have crowded out hunters and sportsmen. It’s a shame, because legitimate gun owners will suffer from the efforts of their fanatical fringe. Of course, maybe this is only fair, since the "responsible" gun owners never spoke up. If you remain silent, the extremists take over. It happens all the time. >Folks like atwood like to blame "exremists" and "fanatics" and the "gun >lobby" for preventing the grand dream of the elimination of private >ownership of guns. Notice the slant: If you argue with him (or them), you >are a fanatic, and extremist, or a member of the gun lobby.
I do not oppose private ownership of firearms. I have said this repeatedly, yet the extremists in this NG simply choose to lie about what I believe. I want sensible regulation to keep guns out of the hands of kids, crooks and nutcases, and I simply do not recognize a political motive for gun ownership. While I don’t recognize such a motive, however, I wouldn’t establish some kind of thought police to screen out people who buy a gun for that reason. All I want is for gun ownership to be restricted to law abiding, responsible adults over the age of 21, or to kids who are accompanied by such adults. This shouldn’t be controversial, except to selfish, irresponsible fanatics who thirst for some kind of second American civil war, as many of you obviously do. >We are demons for not lying down and taking the abuse we have been receiving >because of two fuckwits in Colorado and a jagoff in Georgia. [By the way, >did you know the the seller of the "deadly assault weapon" used at Columbine >was the child of an Handgun Control, Inc., activist? How convient...]
Oh, so now you’re implying that Handgun Control organized the Columbine massacre? Does your conspiracy paranoia know no bounds? What ugly lies you tell. > The streets aren’t running in blood and as more and more >states allow non-discretionary CCW ownership, they are getting safer — >because the lives of criminals are getting more dangerous.]
Tell this to the parents of the children murdered in cold blood. The schools *are* "running in blood." That’s why people are concerned. I guess you just don’t care that in Colorado a killer walked up to a kid, shot him in the head, and then said to his accomplice, I always wanted to know what nigger brains looked like. Or that a killer walked up to a young girl, asked if she believed in God, and murdered her when she said yes. Or that a young athlete will never walk again. Nope, these things don’t matter a bit to you. Because you’ve got your toys and you want to not only keep them but have the right to sell them to anyone you please. The world is your playpen! >Nevertheless. We are demons for reminding people that the NRA did NOT order >the killings, nor had any responsibility for them.
No, the issue is that the NRA refuses to accept any responsibility, just like Hollywood refuses, like the schools refuse, parents refuse and the police refuse. The light gets switched on and everyone runs like cockroaches to the corners of American life and say, "Not my fault. Blame that guy over there." This is not the spirit that made America what it is. It is cover-your-ass denial and selfishness of the kind we’ve seen out of so many people in the past 40 years. Come on, face up to the problems and work on constructive solutions. You gun owners parade yourselves as patriots, and often as conservatives interested in traditional family values. So, is getting murdered at school a traditional value? What the hell is wrong with this picture? You’re selfish little spoiled brats like so many other people are these days. Look in the mirror! See yourselves as you are seen by others. I don’t want to seize your guns, well at least not the first five guns in your home arsenals anyway. Those of you who are crack-brained criminal nutcases and political weirdos probably should worry about gun control. But those of you who are really responsible gun owners — not many on this NG, but I still think plenty among gun owners in general — have nothing to fear. > they are >now resorting to converting gun owners into the Jews of the 21st Century. It >is becoming increasingly clear to gun owners, that the current attack on gun >ownership is a close parallel to the attacks on Jews in 1936 Germany. Any >student of history ought to see the parallels in the agitprop being used >against us now.
More maudlin paranoia from extremist fanatics. This sort of rhetoric and 75 cents will buy you a cup of coffee at McDonald’s. "Jews of the 21st Century." What a crock! >And when we do post here, atwood and others call us criminals and >extremists.
Not sure about the criminal part, I don’t really know, although the resistance to screening at gun shows certainly supports the criminal element. As for extremists, if the shoe fits then wear it.
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> Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
Oh you mean like Jolly Ol’ Unarmed England. Whoops, a 16 year old went on a shooting spree in one of THOSE schools too. Or do you ignore that? HerrGlock — UNIX – Not just for vestal virgins anymore Linux – Choice of a GNU generation
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Sieg heil! >Let us know when you’re having your First Amendment burning party, Atwood. >In the meantime, you might want to ponder that we don’t "give" special >interests power, they have it by virtue of the fact that millions of >voters (you know, actual people — the sort you’re trying to muzzle >and "restrain") all feel the same way and make their feelings known >to their representatives. >It’s such a bitch when people who disagree with you get to have a >say in our society, isn’t it? Not to worry — I’m sure you’ll figure >out a proper way to "restrain" them if you think long enough. Your >intellectual forbearers already came up with a "final solution" >I’m sure would be right up your alley.
Tell it to the parents of the kids massacred in schools because the gun fringe won’t find a way to keep their toys out of the hands of children.
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* This message did not originate from the Sender address above. It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software. * I have no respect for the opinion of a person who goes to such great lengths to be anonymous. If you can’t stand proudly behind your opinions, then you should not state them. Maharet — "Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." ~Unknown
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
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— origin: alt.parenting.solutions: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >|>Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >|>before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc >|etc. >|> >|>Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until >|you >|>get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your >|love >|>affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to >|you. >|> >|>What fools you Americans really are. >| >| >|The reaon we’re fools is that we’ve given special interests too much power. >|The gun lobby and violence-promoting entertainment sellers need to be >|restrained, and schools and police need to be induced to be stricter in >|enforcing the laws.
Maybe you should start by doing a better job of raising your kids. You can impose your values on your kids, stop wasting time trying to impose them on society at large. OTOH, if the kids are too much trouble for you, adopt them out to someone who *will* raise them properly. Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil." BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World." ICQ 26776011 | — Bardic Motto If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all. —- Noam Chomsky
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I grossly took out of context the following remark by Dufus: >Maybe even a hammer and cycle?
What’s that? Thor on a Harley? Really though, the original post should have been ignored, as it was grossly off topic.
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In his post, George of the Jungle signed off with: >Chief Justice Earl Warren:
"Today, as always, the people, no less than their courts, must remain vigilant to preserve the principles of our Bill of Rights, lest in our desire to be secure we lose our ability to be free." New York University, 1962, 3rd annual James Madison Lecture Isn’t this the same Earl Warren who, as California Attorney General, enthusiastically pushed for the removal of over 100,000 Japanese-Americans from their homes despite J. Edgar Hoover’s insistence that there was no indication of espionage activity by members of that community (and, indeed, no Japanese-American was ever tried for espionage)? Warren may have turned out, in the end, to be one of our most liberal Supreme Court Justices, but his conduct during the early 40’s was pretty reprehensible.
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— origin: alt.parenting.solutions: >|Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >|before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. >| >|Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you >|get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love >|affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. >| >|What fools you Americans really are.
Why don’t you come out from behind your cloak of anonymity and say that? Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil." BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World." ICQ 26776011 | — Bardic Motto If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all. —- Noam Chomsky
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc > etc. >Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until > you >get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your > love >affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to > you. >What fools you Americans really are. > It has been reported that the parents of the shooter had recently given him > a gun for his birthday present. Only in America folks. >yes, we would be much better off if every citizen was disarmed.
Look how well it worked in Tianmen ! —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc >etc. >Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until >you >get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your >love >affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to >you. >What fools you Americans really are. >It has been reported that the parents of the shooter had recently given him >a gun for his birthday present. Only in America folks.
It was reported that the gun given to the killers in Columbine came from the child of members of your organization, Handgun Control, Inc. Care to comment about this, Albert? Do you think HCI should be listed as a co-defendent in the inevitable tort? I do. Only in America, can Albert blame the parents when their kids break into the gun cabinet, steal the guns, and shoot others — while at the same time, keep silent about the gun control activist parents whose child WILLFULLY, and WILLINGLY, SOLD his gun to a pair of mass murders. Chief Justice Earl Warren: "Today, as always, the people, no less than their courts, must remain vigilant to preserve the principles of our Bill of Rights, lest in our desire to be secure we lose our ability to be free." New York University, 1962, 3rd annual James Madison Lecture — Please do not send email. Support the anti-Spam amendment Join at http://www.cauce.org/ "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anything offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor will I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warnings to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival of the online community." "The Boulder Pledge", devised by Roger Ebert at the Conference on World Affairs at the University of Colorado http://www3.zdnet.com/yil/content/mag/9612/ebert9612.html
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Guffaw! Frontier menality? ROTFL! The right to keep and bear arms was guarenteed by the 2nd Amendment in order to prevent the new government from becoming tyranny. In the Federalist papers, number 46, Madison writes: Quote: …That the people and the States should, for a sufficient period of time, elect an uninterupted succession of men ready to betray both; that the traitors should, throughout this period, uniformly and systematically pursue some fixed plan for the extension of the military establishment; that the governments and the people of the States should silently and patiently behold the gathering storm, and continue to supply the materials, until it should be prepared to burst on their own heads, must appear to every one more like the incoherent dreams of a delirious jealousy, or the misjudged exaggerations of a counterfeit zeal, than like the sober apprehensions of genuine patriotism. Extravagant as the supposition is, let it however be made. Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger. The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth part of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. Those who are best acquainted with the last successful resistance of this country against the British arms, will be most inclined to deny the possibility of it. Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Endquote Madison, who agreed to submit what became the 2nd Amendment to the states as part of the Bill of Rights, says (in the convoluted language of the 18th Century), that if the government starts to act tyranically, they would be opposed by a much larger numerical majority of armed citizens, who would be led by their friends and neighbors. He says that Americans have the advantage of being armed and that coupled with local leaders, will prevail against a tyrannical federal government. Congress, in 1792, followed up by enacting the Militia Acts. This Act made it mandatory for all men of military age to (1) possess a gun, (2) and purchase within 5 years, the then-current state of the art, assault rifle, (3) to show up for regular drill in the Militia. "Frontier mentality" has nothing to do with it. Gun ownership has a political and a national defense purpose. As for Kosovo: Murder in the name of the People of the United States is being done under the orders of a man who sold missile technology to, and blocked investigation of nuclear weapon espionage by, China — in exchange for campaign contributions. A man who has sold us out, in other words. A man who is a pathological liar and a rapist. A man who has shown no compunctions in the past to bomb innocent people in the Sudan to divert attention from his impeachment. Again, "Frontier mentality" has nothing to do with it. It is the act of a corrupt man. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >It will be difficult for America to abandon their current policies on guns, since >the frontier mentality is still quite pervasive. After all, it was through >guns(violence) that the founding fathers managed to eradicate most of the native >Americans. The NATO(US) attack on Yugoslavia is yet another manifestation of the US >frontier mentality. > Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc >etc. >Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until >you >get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your >love >affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to >you. >What fools you Americans really are. >The reaon we’re fools is that we’ve given special interests too much power. >The gun lobby and violence-promoting entertainment sellers need to be >restrained, and schools and police need to be induced to be stricter in >enforcing the laws.
We’re not fools at all. Well, may atwood is, but not gun owners. We have a Constitution that guarantees our rights. Freedom is freedom to choose. 80 million of us choose to own guns. 2.8-3.0 million of us choose to join a lobby group to fight against guys like atwood who are moving heaven and earth to invalidate those rights. We have the right to do this under the 1st Amendment. We have the right to speak out against people like atwood, who in other posts indicates that he supports the incineration of children — which was done as the end result of enforcing a gun control law. We have the right to protest the efforts of atwood and others in this newsgroup (and in the media) who are making gun owners into demons, in order to advance their agenda. Make no mistake, atwood hates gun owners….and he especially hate NRA members. Now let’s take the UK. First they took away their guns (England never had a 2nd Amendment). Now they want to take away the right to a jury trial. (Oops, no 5th Amendment either!) In case you were sleeping in your History class that day, Mr. Anonymous, the Magna Carta (which was signed by King John at the point of a sword), won the right to a jury trial by a jury of peers. Play particular attentioin to the fact that it took FORCE of ARMS to get the right to a jury trial. And now that the English no longer have arms, look how easy it is for them to do away with a trial by jury! Folks like atwood like to blame "exremists" and "fanatics" and the "gun lobby" for preventing the grand dream of the elimination of private ownership of guns. Notice the slant: If you argue with him (or them), you are a fanatic, and extremist, or a member of the gun lobby. Never mind that we have the right to object and fight him in the court of public opinion (which is what a lobby really does!). Never mind we have the right to organize a lobby. To him and the other gun grabbers on this list, we are DEMONS for doing so. We are demons for not lying down and taking the abuse we have been receiving because of two fuckwits in Colorado and a jagoff in Georgia. [By the way, did you know the the seller of the "deadly assault weapon" used at Columbine was the child of an Handgun Control, Inc., activist? How convient...] We are demons for refusing to accept group guilt for the actions of criminals. We are demons for reminding people that there are 80 million gun owners who DID NOT KILL ANYBODY! The same 80 million people who own the 250 million guns in this country. Whose attention to safety and responsibility has resulted in a remarkably LOW rate of missuse. [If you listen to atwood and his fellow gun grabbers, you'd think that these 80 million gun owners are slaughtering people left and right. Well, it isn't so, Joe. The streets aren't running in blood and as more and more states allow non-discretionary CCW ownership, they are getting safer -- because the lives of criminals are getting more dangerous.] Nevertheless. We are demons for reminding people that the NRA did NOT order the killings, nor had any responsibility for them. We MUST be demonized in order for the agenda to advance. The kind of abuse being heaped upon NRA members and gun owners is part and parcel of a vicious propaganda campaign. Gun grabbers, like atwood, hate the NRA because as the largest gun owner organization, they have been successful in protecting the rights of ALL gun owners from the activities a small minority of vocal proponents of gun confiscation. They have the right to advocate what they want — confiscate guns. We have the right to advocate what we want. This is what freedom of speech is about. [Which, by the way, the UK and Canada DO NOT have!] However, our opponents are not content with losing, based upon facts, legal scholarship, and ~2.8 million adult voters, who are willing to visit retribution on legislators who vote for gun control at the polls, they are now resorting to converting gun owners into the Jews of the 21st Century. It is becoming increasingly clear to gun owners, that the current attack on gun ownership is a close parallel to the attacks on Jews in 1936 Germany. Any student of history ought to see the parallels in the agitprop being used against us now. And when we do post here, atwood and others call us criminals and extremists. [New sign at O'Hare Airport] "Welcome to Chicago, Murder Capital of the US, Richard M. Daley, Mayor, Where Gun Control Works To Raise the Homicide Rate" On the defeat of his gun control agenda in the Illinois Legislature, Mayor Daley said: "This is an uphill fight. I understand that. We’re up against an industry that hides behind the Constitution." Fitting language from a so-called "lawyer" that failed the Illinois Bar Exam multiple times… — Please do not send email. Support the anti-Spam amendment Join at http://www.cauce.org/ "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anything offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor will I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warnings to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival of the online community." "The Boulder Pledge", devised by Roger Ebert at the Conference on World Affairs at the University of Colorado http://www3.zdnet.com/yil/content/mag/9612/ebert9612.html
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Yes, we Americans are fools. Freedom loving fools! Were it not for our forefathers who carried arms we in the U.S. could be marching to a different anthem…maybe even having the old Union Jack flag flying instead of the Stars and Stripes! Maybe even a hammer and cycle? Get rid of our guns, you say? Why? So some third world tyrant can take from us our very heritage and subjugate us? Allow some self-appointed despot to rule our lives while we cower in the shadows? You may believe that more government is a good thing..we in the U.S. do not..never have. We are not followers, rabbits being led by the self-appointed elite. What is "happening" to us? Our borders are being overrun by those whose dream it is to come to the U.S. with the hope of a better life for them and their families. Can your country offer that? We are reaping what we have sowed…freedom from repression, equal opportunity for all who want to work, and best of all the FREEDOM to DISAGREE and voice our opinions! Lastly…use your brain..every society has misfits..ableit even yours. Sick persons are a world-wide plague. PS: Abortions kill more people in one month than all the gun deaths put together in the last 100 years. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc > etc. >Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until > you >get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your > love >affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to > you. >What fools you Americans really are. > It has been reported that the parents of the shooter had recently given him > a gun for his birthday present. Only in America folks.
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It will be difficult for America to abandon their current policies on guns, since the frontier mentality is still quite pervasive. After all, it was through guns(violence) that the founding fathers managed to eradicate most of the native Americans. The NATO(US) attack on Yugoslavia is yet another manifestation of the US frontier mentality. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
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>It has been reported that the parents of the shooter had recently given him >a gun for his birthday present. Only in America folks.
If you believe that people in other countries don’t give their kids gun for birthday presents, then *you’re* the fool here. — "I worry about my judgment when anything I believe in or do regularly begins to be accepted by the American public." — George Carlin
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>The reaon we’re fools is that we’ve given special interests too much power. >The gun lobby and violence-promoting entertainment sellers need to be >restrained,
Sieg heil! Let us know when you’re having your First Amendment burning party, Atwood. In the meantime, you might want to ponder that we don’t "give" special interests power, they have it by virtue of the fact that millions of voters (you know, actual people — the sort you’re trying to muzzle and "restrain") all feel the same way and make their feelings known to their representatives. It’s such a bitch when people who disagree with you get to have a say in our society, isn’t it? Not to worry — I’m sure you’ll figure out a proper way to "restrain" them if you think long enough. Your intellectual forbearers already came up with a "final solution" I’m sure would be right up your alley. — "I worry about my judgment when anything I believe in or do regularly begins to be accepted by the American public." — George Carlin
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>Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. >Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you >get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love >affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. >What fools you Americans really are.
The reaon we’re fools is that we’ve given special interests too much power. The gun lobby and violence-promoting entertainment sellers need to be restrained, and schools and police need to be induced to be stricter in enforcing the laws.
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That is silly. When people blame guns or video games or any one of a number of other things it always amazes me. The desire to not want to admit that some people are just evil or sick is so strong that people have to blame objects. It is silly to base what everyone must do in society on a few sick members. If society takes away guns in the name of protecting people or regulates video games in the name of protecting people it only accomplishes one thing. It takes away the most important aspect of society which is freedom. The few among society who are sick will simply find other outlets and methods to vent their murder. This can be an endless cycle but at each crossroad another freedom is lost.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
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"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." — Samuel Adams – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
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Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. What fools you Americans really are.
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>Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. >Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you >get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love >affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. >What fools you Americans really are.
This shit happens all the time in Black neighborhoods but its never reported. It’s funny back when we had no gun control laws we had no school shootings. Trying to get rid of guns in America will be as effective as try to get rid of drugs have been. These kids go on these shooting attacks because all the liberal teachers and their socialist ideas being pounded in their head.
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Andie, you forgot that guns won our freedom from England. Kept us free from the French and Spain, freed the slaves. Freed Europe in WWi, got rid of Hitler in WWii and freed the jews held in prison camps. Held off the Imperial country of Japan. Got Sadam out of Kuwait. Just think, Ron Goldman and Nicole may still be here if one had a gun. No knife could be a match to the gun!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It will be difficult for America to abandon their current policies on guns, since > the frontier mentality is still quite pervasive. After all, it was through > guns(violence) that the founding fathers managed to eradicate most of the native > Americans. The NATO(US) attack on Yugoslavia is yet another manifestation of the US > frontier mentality. > Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
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>Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. >Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you >get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love >affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. >What fools you Americans really are.
It has been reported that the parents of the shooter had recently given him a gun for his birthday present. Only in America folks.
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> Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
We’re fools because we keep electing politicians like ‘Fineswine’ Feinstein, ’Schmukie’ Schumer, Teddy ‘Bear" Kennedy (who’s killed more people with his car than I have with all my guns put together), and the most noble of all - the pot smoking, draft dodging, lying, rapist currently residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Just keep in mind _all_ these events, beginning with Waco happened on our Chief Philander’s watch. And then there are the anonymous CS posters like you! F___ing troll ! ! ! ! — Fear out of experience is . . .to be conquered; Fear out of ignorance is . . . . to be stupid! Larry L. Taylor
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| That is silly. When people blame guns or video games or any one of a number | of other things it always amazes me. The desire to not want to admit that | some people are just evil or sick is so strong that people have to blame | objects. It is silly to base what everyone must do in society on a few sick | members. If society takes away guns in the name of protecting people or | regulates video games in the name of protecting people it only accomplishes | one thing. It takes away the most important aspect of society which is | freedom. Having guns in your society takes away people’s freedom to live when guns are used against them. The freedom to live surely outweighs the freedom some in your society want. I.E. the freedom to poses the means of taking that freedom away. I am continually thankful that I live in a society where the gun laws are strict. It seams crazy to have ‘gun shops’ where you can walk in and buy a gun as if you were going to the food store.
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>We have a Constitution that guarantees our rights.
No right is unrestricted. The extremist view of the 2d amendment isn’t based in law but upon a mixture of paranoia, fanaticism and wishful thinking. >Freedom is freedom to choose. 80 million of us choose to own guns. 2.8-3.0 >million of us choose to join a lobby group to fight against guys like atwood >who are moving heaven and earth to invalidate those rights.
And 9% of your lobbying group participates in NRA elections. The other 91% join so they can get a sticker to put on their window. >We have the right to do this under the 1st Amendment. >We have the right to speak out against people like atwood, who in other >posts indicates that he supports the incineration of children — which was >done as the end result of enforcing a gun control law.
Yes, and I have the right to call you exactly what you are — selfish, irresponsible, heartless, paranoid, extremist fanatics who, even in the face of massacres of children, won’t lift a finger to keep your toys out of the hands of your children. If you won’t do it, then we’ll do it for you. And one thing I guarantee, when non-gun owners do this, it’s going to be a lot tougher on you than if you’d tell your nutcase organizations to straighten up and pitch in with some constructive solutions. >Make no mistake, atwood hates gun owners….and he especially hate NRA >members.
I don’t hate gun owners, and my participation here shows I obviously don’t fear them. Hunters, sport shooters and people who need a gun for protection are o.k. by me. I also don’t hate NRA members, especially the ones who join so they can get a sticker. It’s understandable that if you live in a high-crime neighborhood or you’ve had your truck stolen, you might want and NRA sticker or two in hopes of deterring a thief — or a gun for protection, as a last resort. I do think that as a political fringe group, the NRA has seriously screwed up by joining the ranks of the political extremists who have crowded out hunters and sportsmen. It’s a shame, because legitimate gun owners will suffer from the efforts of their fanatical fringe. Of course, maybe this is only fair, since the "responsible" gun owners never spoke up. If you remain silent, the extremists take over. It happens all the time. >Folks like atwood like to blame "exremists" and "fanatics" and the "gun >lobby" for preventing the grand dream of the elimination of private >ownership of guns. Notice the slant: If you argue with him (or them), you >are a fanatic, and extremist, or a member of the gun lobby.
I do not oppose private ownership of firearms. I have said this repeatedly, yet the extremists in this NG simply choose to lie about what I believe. I want sensible regulation to keep guns out of the hands of kids, crooks and nutcases, and I simply do not recognize a political motive for gun ownership. While I don’t recognize such a motive, however, I wouldn’t establish some kind of thought police to screen out people who buy a gun for that reason. All I want is for gun ownership to be restricted to law abiding, responsible adults over the age of 21, or to kids who are accompanied by such adults. This shouldn’t be controversial, except to selfish, irresponsible fanatics who thirst for some kind of second American civil war, as many of you obviously do. >We are demons for not lying down and taking the abuse we have been receiving >because of two fuckwits in Colorado and a jagoff in Georgia. [By the way, >did you know the the seller of the "deadly assault weapon" used at Columbine >was the child of an Handgun Control, Inc., activist? How convient...]
Oh, so now you’re implying that Handgun Control organized the Columbine massacre? Does your conspiracy paranoia know no bounds? What ugly lies you tell. > The streets aren’t running in blood and as more and more >states allow non-discretionary CCW ownership, they are getting safer — >because the lives of criminals are getting more dangerous.]
Tell this to the parents of the children murdered in cold blood. The schools *are* "running in blood." That’s why people are concerned. I guess you just don’t care that in Colorado a killer walked up to a kid, shot him in the head, and then said to his accomplice, I always wanted to know what nigger brains looked like. Or that a killer walked up to a young girl, asked if she believed in God, and murdered her when she said yes. Or that a young athlete will never walk again. Nope, these things don’t matter a bit to you. Because you’ve got your toys and you want to not only keep them but have the right to sell them to anyone you please. The world is your playpen! >Nevertheless. We are demons for reminding people that the NRA did NOT order >the killings, nor had any responsibility for them.
No, the issue is that the NRA refuses to accept any responsibility, just like Hollywood refuses, like the schools refuse, parents refuse and the police refuse. The light gets switched on and everyone runs like cockroaches to the corners of American life and say, "Not my fault. Blame that guy over there." This is not the spirit that made America what it is. It is cover-your-ass denial and selfishness of the kind we’ve seen out of so many people in the past 40 years. Come on, face up to the problems and work on constructive solutions. You gun owners parade yourselves as patriots, and often as conservatives interested in traditional family values. So, is getting murdered at school a traditional value? What the hell is wrong with this picture? You’re selfish little spoiled brats like so many other people are these days. Look in the mirror! See yourselves as you are seen by others. I don’t want to seize your guns, well at least not the first five guns in your home arsenals anyway. Those of you who are crack-brained criminal nutcases and political weirdos probably should worry about gun control. But those of you who are really responsible gun owners — not many on this NG, but I still think plenty among gun owners in general — have nothing to fear. > they are >now resorting to converting gun owners into the Jews of the 21st Century. It >is becoming increasingly clear to gun owners, that the current attack on gun >ownership is a close parallel to the attacks on Jews in 1936 Germany. Any >student of history ought to see the parallels in the agitprop being used >against us now.
More maudlin paranoia from extremist fanatics. This sort of rhetoric and 75 cents will buy you a cup of coffee at McDonald’s. "Jews of the 21st Century." What a crock! >And when we do post here, atwood and others call us criminals and >extremists.
Not sure about the criminal part, I don’t really know, although the resistance to screening at gun shows certainly supports the criminal element. As for extremists, if the shoe fits then wear it.
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> Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
Oh you mean like Jolly Ol’ Unarmed England. Whoops, a 16 year old went on a shooting spree in one of THOSE schools too. Or do you ignore that? HerrGlock — UNIX – Not just for vestal virgins anymore Linux – Choice of a GNU generation
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Sieg heil! >Let us know when you’re having your First Amendment burning party, Atwood. >In the meantime, you might want to ponder that we don’t "give" special >interests power, they have it by virtue of the fact that millions of >voters (you know, actual people — the sort you’re trying to muzzle >and "restrain") all feel the same way and make their feelings known >to their representatives. >It’s such a bitch when people who disagree with you get to have a >say in our society, isn’t it? Not to worry — I’m sure you’ll figure >out a proper way to "restrain" them if you think long enough. Your >intellectual forbearers already came up with a "final solution" >I’m sure would be right up your alley.
Tell it to the parents of the kids massacred in schools because the gun fringe won’t find a way to keep their toys out of the hands of children.
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* This message did not originate from the Sender address above. It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software. * I have no respect for the opinion of a person who goes to such great lengths to be anonymous. If you can’t stand proudly behind your opinions, then you should not state them. Maharet — "Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." ~Unknown
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
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— origin: alt.parenting.solutions: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >|>Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >|>before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc >|etc. >|> >|>Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until >|you >|>get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your >|love >|>affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to >|you. >|> >|>What fools you Americans really are. >| >| >|The reaon we’re fools is that we’ve given special interests too much power. >|The gun lobby and violence-promoting entertainment sellers need to be >|restrained, and schools and police need to be induced to be stricter in >|enforcing the laws.
Maybe you should start by doing a better job of raising your kids. You can impose your values on your kids, stop wasting time trying to impose them on society at large. OTOH, if the kids are too much trouble for you, adopt them out to someone who *will* raise them properly. Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil." BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World." ICQ 26776011 | — Bardic Motto If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all. —- Noam Chomsky
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I grossly took out of context the following remark by Dufus: >Maybe even a hammer and cycle?
What’s that? Thor on a Harley? Really though, the original post should have been ignored, as it was grossly off topic.
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In his post, George of the Jungle signed off with: >Chief Justice Earl Warren:
"Today, as always, the people, no less than their courts, must remain vigilant to preserve the principles of our Bill of Rights, lest in our desire to be secure we lose our ability to be free." New York University, 1962, 3rd annual James Madison Lecture Isn’t this the same Earl Warren who, as California Attorney General, enthusiastically pushed for the removal of over 100,000 Japanese-Americans from their homes despite J. Edgar Hoover’s insistence that there was no indication of espionage activity by members of that community (and, indeed, no Japanese-American was ever tried for espionage)? Warren may have turned out, in the end, to be one of our most liberal Supreme Court Justices, but his conduct during the early 40’s was pretty reprehensible.
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— origin: alt.parenting.solutions: >|Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >|before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. >| >|Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you >|get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love >|affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. >| >|What fools you Americans really are.
Why don’t you come out from behind your cloak of anonymity and say that? Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil." BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World." ICQ 26776011 | — Bardic Motto If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all. —- Noam Chomsky
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc > etc. >Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until > you >get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your > love >affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to > you. >What fools you Americans really are. > It has been reported that the parents of the shooter had recently given him > a gun for his birthday present. Only in America folks. >yes, we would be much better off if every citizen was disarmed.
Look how well it worked in Tianmen ! —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc >etc. >Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until >you >get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your >love >affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to >you. >What fools you Americans really are. >It has been reported that the parents of the shooter had recently given him >a gun for his birthday present. Only in America folks.
It was reported that the gun given to the killers in Columbine came from the child of members of your organization, Handgun Control, Inc. Care to comment about this, Albert? Do you think HCI should be listed as a co-defendent in the inevitable tort? I do. Only in America, can Albert blame the parents when their kids break into the gun cabinet, steal the guns, and shoot others — while at the same time, keep silent about the gun control activist parents whose child WILLFULLY, and WILLINGLY, SOLD his gun to a pair of mass murders. Chief Justice Earl Warren: "Today, as always, the people, no less than their courts, must remain vigilant to preserve the principles of our Bill of Rights, lest in our desire to be secure we lose our ability to be free." New York University, 1962, 3rd annual James Madison Lecture — Please do not send email. Support the anti-Spam amendment Join at http://www.cauce.org/ "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anything offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor will I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warnings to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival of the online community." "The Boulder Pledge", devised by Roger Ebert at the Conference on World Affairs at the University of Colorado http://www3.zdnet.com/yil/content/mag/9612/ebert9612.html
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Guffaw! Frontier menality? ROTFL! The right to keep and bear arms was guarenteed by the 2nd Amendment in order to prevent the new government from becoming tyranny. In the Federalist papers, number 46, Madison writes: Quote: …That the people and the States should, for a sufficient period of time, elect an uninterupted succession of men ready to betray both; that the traitors should, throughout this period, uniformly and systematically pursue some fixed plan for the extension of the military establishment; that the governments and the people of the States should silently and patiently behold the gathering storm, and continue to supply the materials, until it should be prepared to burst on their own heads, must appear to every one more like the incoherent dreams of a delirious jealousy, or the misjudged exaggerations of a counterfeit zeal, than like the sober apprehensions of genuine patriotism. Extravagant as the supposition is, let it however be made. Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger. The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth part of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. Those who are best acquainted with the last successful resistance of this country against the British arms, will be most inclined to deny the possibility of it. Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Endquote Madison, who agreed to submit what became the 2nd Amendment to the states as part of the Bill of Rights, says (in the convoluted language of the 18th Century), that if the government starts to act tyranically, they would be opposed by a much larger numerical majority of armed citizens, who would be led by their friends and neighbors. He says that Americans have the advantage of being armed and that coupled with local leaders, will prevail against a tyrannical federal government. Congress, in 1792, followed up by enacting the Militia Acts. This Act made it mandatory for all men of military age to (1) possess a gun, (2) and purchase within 5 years, the then-current state of the art, assault rifle, (3) to show up for regular drill in the Militia. "Frontier mentality" has nothing to do with it. Gun ownership has a political and a national defense purpose. As for Kosovo: Murder in the name of the People of the United States is being done under the orders of a man who sold missile technology to, and blocked investigation of nuclear weapon espionage by, China — in exchange for campaign contributions. A man who has sold us out, in other words. A man who is a pathological liar and a rapist. A man who has shown no compunctions in the past to bomb innocent people in the Sudan to divert attention from his impeachment. Again, "Frontier mentality" has nothing to do with it. It is the act of a corrupt man. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >It will be difficult for America to abandon their current policies on guns, since >the frontier mentality is still quite pervasive. After all, it was through >guns(violence) that the founding fathers managed to eradicate most of the native >Americans. The NATO(US) attack on Yugoslavia is yet another manifestation of the US >frontier mentality. > Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc >etc. >Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until >you >get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your >love >affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to >you. >What fools you Americans really are. >The reaon we’re fools is that we’ve given special interests too much power. >The gun lobby and violence-promoting entertainment sellers need to be >restrained, and schools and police need to be induced to be stricter in >enforcing the laws.
We’re not fools at all. Well, may atwood is, but not gun owners. We have a Constitution that guarantees our rights. Freedom is freedom to choose. 80 million of us choose to own guns. 2.8-3.0 million of us choose to join a lobby group to fight against guys like atwood who are moving heaven and earth to invalidate those rights. We have the right to do this under the 1st Amendment. We have the right to speak out against people like atwood, who in other posts indicates that he supports the incineration of children — which was done as the end result of enforcing a gun control law. We have the right to protest the efforts of atwood and others in this newsgroup (and in the media) who are making gun owners into demons, in order to advance their agenda. Make no mistake, atwood hates gun owners….and he especially hate NRA members. Now let’s take the UK. First they took away their guns (England never had a 2nd Amendment). Now they want to take away the right to a jury trial. (Oops, no 5th Amendment either!) In case you were sleeping in your History class that day, Mr. Anonymous, the Magna Carta (which was signed by King John at the point of a sword), won the right to a jury trial by a jury of peers. Play particular attentioin to the fact that it took FORCE of ARMS to get the right to a jury trial. And now that the English no longer have arms, look how easy it is for them to do away with a trial by jury! Folks like atwood like to blame "exremists" and "fanatics" and the "gun lobby" for preventing the grand dream of the elimination of private ownership of guns. Notice the slant: If you argue with him (or them), you are a fanatic, and extremist, or a member of the gun lobby. Never mind that we have the right to object and fight him in the court of public opinion (which is what a lobby really does!). Never mind we have the right to organize a lobby. To him and the other gun grabbers on this list, we are DEMONS for doing so. We are demons for not lying down and taking the abuse we have been receiving because of two fuckwits in Colorado and a jagoff in Georgia. [By the way, did you know the the seller of the "deadly assault weapon" used at Columbine was the child of an Handgun Control, Inc., activist? How convient...] We are demons for refusing to accept group guilt for the actions of criminals. We are demons for reminding people that there are 80 million gun owners who DID NOT KILL ANYBODY! The same 80 million people who own the 250 million guns in this country. Whose attention to safety and responsibility has resulted in a remarkably LOW rate of missuse. [If you listen to atwood and his fellow gun grabbers, you'd think that these 80 million gun owners are slaughtering people left and right. Well, it isn't so, Joe. The streets aren't running in blood and as more and more states allow non-discretionary CCW ownership, they are getting safer -- because the lives of criminals are getting more dangerous.] Nevertheless. We are demons for reminding people that the NRA did NOT order the killings, nor had any responsibility for them. We MUST be demonized in order for the agenda to advance. The kind of abuse being heaped upon NRA members and gun owners is part and parcel of a vicious propaganda campaign. Gun grabbers, like atwood, hate the NRA because as the largest gun owner organization, they have been successful in protecting the rights of ALL gun owners from the activities a small minority of vocal proponents of gun confiscation. They have the right to advocate what they want — confiscate guns. We have the right to advocate what we want. This is what freedom of speech is about. [Which, by the way, the UK and Canada DO NOT have!] However, our opponents are not content with losing, based upon facts, legal scholarship, and ~2.8 million adult voters, who are willing to visit retribution on legislators who vote for gun control at the polls, they are now resorting to converting gun owners into the Jews of the 21st Century. It is becoming increasingly clear to gun owners, that the current attack on gun ownership is a close parallel to the attacks on Jews in 1936 Germany. Any student of history ought to see the parallels in the agitprop being used against us now. And when we do post here, atwood and others call us criminals and extremists. [New sign at O'Hare Airport] "Welcome to Chicago, Murder Capital of the US, Richard M. Daley, Mayor, Where Gun Control Works To Raise the Homicide Rate" On the defeat of his gun control agenda in the Illinois Legislature, Mayor Daley said: "This is an uphill fight. I understand that. We’re up against an industry that hides behind the Constitution." Fitting language from a so-called "lawyer" that failed the Illinois Bar Exam multiple times… — Please do not send email. Support the anti-Spam amendment Join at http://www.cauce.org/ "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anything offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor will I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warnings to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival of the online community." "The Boulder Pledge", devised by Roger Ebert at the Conference on World Affairs at the University of Colorado http://www3.zdnet.com/yil/content/mag/9612/ebert9612.html
Response:
Yes, we Americans are fools. Freedom loving fools! Were it not for our forefathers who carried arms we in the U.S. could be marching to a different anthem…maybe even having the old Union Jack flag flying instead of the Stars and Stripes! Maybe even a hammer and cycle? Get rid of our guns, you say? Why? So some third world tyrant can take from us our very heritage and subjugate us? Allow some self-appointed despot to rule our lives while we cower in the shadows? You may believe that more government is a good thing..we in the U.S. do not..never have. We are not followers, rabbits being led by the self-appointed elite. What is "happening" to us? Our borders are being overrun by those whose dream it is to come to the U.S. with the hope of a better life for them and their families. Can your country offer that? We are reaping what we have sowed…freedom from repression, equal opportunity for all who want to work, and best of all the FREEDOM to DISAGREE and voice our opinions! Lastly…use your brain..every society has misfits..ableit even yours. Sick persons are a world-wide plague. PS: Abortions kill more people in one month than all the gun deaths put together in the last 100 years. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc > etc. >Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until > you >get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your > love >affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to > you. >What fools you Americans really are. > It has been reported that the parents of the shooter had recently given him > a gun for his birthday present. Only in America folks.
Response:
It will be difficult for America to abandon their current policies on guns, since the frontier mentality is still quite pervasive. After all, it was through guns(violence) that the founding fathers managed to eradicate most of the native Americans. The NATO(US) attack on Yugoslavia is yet another manifestation of the US frontier mentality. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
Response:
>It has been reported that the parents of the shooter had recently given him >a gun for his birthday present. Only in America folks.
If you believe that people in other countries don’t give their kids gun for birthday presents, then *you’re* the fool here. — "I worry about my judgment when anything I believe in or do regularly begins to be accepted by the American public." — George Carlin
Response:
>The reaon we’re fools is that we’ve given special interests too much power. >The gun lobby and violence-promoting entertainment sellers need to be >restrained,
Sieg heil! Let us know when you’re having your First Amendment burning party, Atwood. In the meantime, you might want to ponder that we don’t "give" special interests power, they have it by virtue of the fact that millions of voters (you know, actual people — the sort you’re trying to muzzle and "restrain") all feel the same way and make their feelings known to their representatives. It’s such a bitch when people who disagree with you get to have a say in our society, isn’t it? Not to worry — I’m sure you’ll figure out a proper way to "restrain" them if you think long enough. Your intellectual forbearers already came up with a "final solution" I’m sure would be right up your alley. — "I worry about my judgment when anything I believe in or do regularly begins to be accepted by the American public." — George Carlin
Response:
>Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. >Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you >get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love >affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. >What fools you Americans really are.
The reaon we’re fools is that we’ve given special interests too much power. The gun lobby and violence-promoting entertainment sellers need to be restrained, and schools and police need to be induced to be stricter in enforcing the laws.
Response:
That is silly. When people blame guns or video games or any one of a number of other things it always amazes me. The desire to not want to admit that some people are just evil or sick is so strong that people have to blame objects. It is silly to base what everyone must do in society on a few sick members. If society takes away guns in the name of protecting people or regulates video games in the name of protecting people it only accomplishes one thing. It takes away the most important aspect of society which is freedom. The few among society who are sick will simply find other outlets and methods to vent their murder. This can be an endless cycle but at each crossroad another freedom is lost.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
Response:
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." — Samuel Adams – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
Response:
Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. What fools you Americans really are.
Response:
>Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. >Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you >get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love >affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. >What fools you Americans really are.
This shit happens all the time in Black neighborhoods but its never reported. It’s funny back when we had no gun control laws we had no school shootings. Trying to get rid of guns in America will be as effective as try to get rid of drugs have been. These kids go on these shooting attacks because all the liberal teachers and their socialist ideas being pounded in their head.
Response:
Andie, you forgot that guns won our freedom from England. Kept us free from the French and Spain, freed the slaves. Freed Europe in WWi, got rid of Hitler in WWii and freed the jews held in prison camps. Held off the Imperial country of Japan. Got Sadam out of Kuwait. Just think, Ron Goldman and Nicole may still be here if one had a gun. No knife could be a match to the gun!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It will be difficult for America to abandon their current policies on guns, since > the frontier mentality is still quite pervasive. After all, it was through > guns(violence) that the founding fathers managed to eradicate most of the native > Americans. The NATO(US) attack on Yugoslavia is yet another manifestation of the US > frontier mentality. > Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
Response:
>Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And >before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. >Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you >get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love >affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. >What fools you Americans really are.
It has been reported that the parents of the shooter had recently given him a gun for his birthday present. Only in America folks.
Response:
> Well it has happened again. First Littleton, now Conyers (Atlanta GA). And > before that Jonesboro AR, and Paducah KY, and Pearl MS, and Oregon, etc etc etc. > Like I told you before, this will continue happening in your country until you > get rid of your guns in private citizens’ hands. But no, you continue your love > affair with guns and violence. That’s why you deserve what is happening to you. > What fools you Americans really are.
We’re fools because we keep electing politicians like ‘Fineswine’ Feinstein, ’Schmukie’ Schumer, Teddy ‘Bear" Kennedy (who’s killed more people with his car than I have with all my guns put together), and the most noble of all - the pot smoking, draft dodging, lying, rapist currently residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Just keep in mind _all_ these events, beginning with Waco happened on our Chief Philander’s watch. And then there are the anonymous CS posters like you! F___ing troll ! ! ! ! — Fear out of experience is . . .to be conquered; Fear out of ignorance is . . . . to be stupid! Larry L. Taylor
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