Pure Parents

Question:

:>than others). Dogs, at least in my city, are required to either be fenced :>in or on a leash, so unless it is an irresponsible owner that isn’t a :>problem either. : I am under the impression that people who fence their dogs IN do not : build fences that keep cats OUT.  Thus, a cat who gets into a yard : with a cat-killing dog can still wind up dead, even though the dog’s : owner is being responsible.  Just something to think about. And cats usually won’t go near a dog either. especially one that is barking at them. If the dog were loose they may not have a choice, but fenced in they can get away and the dog can’t follow them. Tigress — "Reality continues to ruin my life." … Calvin (of Calvin and Hobbes) Lover of all that is Lamborghini, defender of Porsches:     |      _,,,—,,_        Tigress    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_     http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_)         Cat drawn by Felix Lee

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >:>than others). Dogs, at least in my city, are required to either be fenced >:>in or on a leash, so unless it is an irresponsible owner that isn’t a >:>problem either. >: I am under the impression that people who fence their dogs IN do not >: build fences that keep cats OUT.  Thus, a cat who gets into a yard >: with a cat-killing dog can still wind up dead, even though the dog’s >: owner is being responsible.  Just something to think about. >And cats usually won’t go near a dog either. especially one that is >barking at them. If the dog were loose they may not have a choice, but >fenced in they can get away and the dog can’t follow them. >Tigress

And then you get the situation that a co-worker of mine has.. being a house between two yards with dogs, ALL the roaming cats go through his yard.  He was not fond of cats to start with, but this has made him consider getting a gun and shooting some of them.  People who let their cats roam have to realise that not everyone adores their furbabies.  I have no problem with people letting cats outside… it’s the ones who put them out in the morning while they are work that bother me.  They have no clue as to where the cats are during the day, and what they are getting into, and who might be less-than-pleased at the cat’s visits. Rebecca

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> She took off for Chicago, she’s been located and charged, but the > authorities are probably not going to extradite her as it’s still just a > misdemeanor. > Yeah, a misdemeanor with a 90 day possible jail sentence and > $300 fine. This woman (regardless of her intent) should be > locked in her house for weeks with no food and water. > Chances are she’ll have no punishment whatsoever. > Makes me embarassed to be human. > Robin > — > http://www.frii.com/~phouka/     not a guided tour.

Latest word is that she’s being charged with felony animal abuse for "willful and malicious killing or injuring of animals", will be extradited (if need be) and faces up to 4 years in jail, $5,000 fines, and/or up to 500 hours of community service.

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N> that they get to go out and they like their quality of life. Overalll I N> think that is the important thing, making them happy (because they deserve N> it for making us happy). One of our cats would be totally miserable if we N> never let her out and the other cats wouldn’t be far behind. Besides the N> fact there is the argument that by keeping them indoors you are not N> letting them live out to their full instincts       And besides which, just think of all the things you are depriving       them of: the thrill of being chased by dogs, the excitement of       running across the road, the speed of a quick death by automobile,       the chance to get impregnated if female, and the jolly times       involved in fighting with other toms.  Not to mention illnesses       they can pick up, both from other animals and from fleas and ticks.       Your three cats have beaten the odds: now just don’t try using       a sample of three in any of your classes at college and say that       proves anything, except that you really do not give a damn about       their survival as long as you can say you are making them happy. avrama & shomer & stoner-the-cat .. nfx v2.7 [C0000] Dogs laugh, but they laugh with their tails.            

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>than others). Dogs, at least in my city, are required to either be fenced >in or on a leash, so unless it is an irresponsible owner that isn’t a >problem either.

I am under the impression that people who fence their dogs IN do not build fences that keep cats OUT.  Thus, a cat who gets into a yard with a cat-killing dog can still wind up dead, even though the dog’s owner is being responsible.  Just something to think about. Rebecca

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>than others). Dogs, at least in my city, are required to either be fenced >in or on a leash, so unless it is an irresponsible owner that isn’t a >problem either. >I am under the impression that people who fence their dogs IN do not >build fences that keep cats OUT.  Thus, a cat who gets into a yard >with a cat-killing dog can still wind up dead, even though the dog’s >owner is being responsible.  Just something to think about. >Rebecca

I really don’t think a dog owner with his/her dog in its fenced in yard should be held accountable for a roaming cat and its demise. Think about it! The dog has loving owners who are taking care of it and keeping it confined to its own premises. The roaming cat is not being taken care of as well as it should be (all of my cats are strictly indoors for their safety) so it (the cat) should know well enough and be fast enough to dodge the dog if it has to deal with the rigors of outside life.  Just my opinion. Barb

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This is terrible!  90-days is not near long enough time in jail!!!! Sandy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Trapped Mich. cats turn to cannibalism > GALIEN, Mich., Oct. 14 (UPI) – Health officials have condemned a > house in southwest Michigan where 40 cats were found abandoned and dead. > The Humane Society of Berrien County is calling the incident in > Galien, Mich., the worst case of animal abuse they’ve ever seen. > The 15 surviving cats found Tuesday were forced to cannibalize the > others to stay alive, after the owner left them without any food or > water. > Barb O’Brien of the Humane Society told reporters of television > station WWMT “it was just like a massive grave” in the house. O’Brien > says the entire house was filled with dead cats. Their bodies were found > upstairs, downstairs, locked in the bathroom and the bedrooms. > O’Brien says when the surviving cats were finally rescued, they > immediately went after the food and water offered them. She says one of > the cats ate so fast, he wasn’t even chewing the food. > Officials say they don’t know how long the pets were left to fend for > themselves in the house. > The pets’ owner, Leonarda Skibby, 44, was located late Tuesday night > in Wisconsin and told to call Michigan authorities. > An investigator close to the case says misdemeanor charges of cruelty > to animals are likely. That carries a minimum of 90 days in jail in > Michigan. > Humane Society officials plan to nurse the surviving cats back to > health and place them in foster homes.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    What i am wondering is why the cats did not leave the house. and what > kind of person would let all these cats live INSIDE. Cats are typically > outdoor animals. > Cats are indoor pets, too. As a matter of fact, all the cat > that I know are *exclusively* indoor cats, except on walks > with a harness. That is not to say that cats shouldn’t be > outside, but that they are not *typically* outside pets. > People don’t let their cats run around outside unless > they don’t want the cat anymore. Most of them don’t come > back. > Robin

   And why do they not usually come back? They LAWAYS come back to their headquarters.  Michael  CSU College Republicans

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> > People don’t let their cats run around outside unless > they don’t want the cat anymore. Most of them don’t come > back. >    And why do they not usually come back? They LAWAYS come back to their > headquarters.

They don’t come back because many of them end up dead. Mauled by dogs, in cat fights, run over by cars, injured in some way. Some do become lost, but unharmed, but that doesn’t help the family who has lost the cat when it doesn’t come home. Robin — http://www.frii.com/~phouka/     not a guided tour.

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I had a 17 lb. male cat that would tear your arms off if you tried to carry him outside.

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: She has at least two fewer indoor/outdoor cats since coyotes ate two of them. : Roads and cars are not the only threat to free-roaming cats.  There are other : animals who, even if they can’t make a meal of kitty, can engage kitty in a : fight and do some serious damage, both physically and medically. : Something to consider, Tirya mom of an indoor cat who fights like hell any : time I *try* to take her outdoors. I am sick of this. People who let their cats live outdoors are not committing a crime or even bad parenting for their kitties. Yes, if yuou live in an area of high traffic, lots of predators, or a place where there are endangered animalst he cat could endanger you should leave the cat indoors. But many times that is not the case. All three of my cats have been indoor/outdoor for 12 years and nothing has happened to them. Yeah it is more of a chance than keeping them indoors but our cats are very happy that they get to go out and they like their quality of life. Overalll I think that is the important thing, making them happy (because they deserve it for making us happy). One of our cats would be totally miserable if we never let her out and the other cats wouldn’t be far behind. Besides the fact there is the argument that by keeping them indoors you are not letting them live out to their full instincts (cats like space and lots of it. I woudl not even think of taking my cats to my dorm room which is apartment style because they would be miserable because of the smallness). Just remember don’t carry your dislike of letting cats outdoors toof ar, I have seen some one who said she would rather kill the cat than let some one (like me) who would let the cat roam outdoors take care of the cat (anyone see the irony in that stance?). Tigress — "Reality continues to ruin my life." … Calvin (of Calvin and Hobbes) Lover of all that is Lamborghini, defender of Porsches:     |      _,,,—,,_        Tigress    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_     http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_)         Cat drawn by Felix Lee

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:>    And why do they not usually come back? They LAWAYS come back to their :> headquarters. : They don’t come back because many of them end up dead. Mauled : by dogs, in cat fights, run over by cars, injured in some way. Cat fights don’t usually kill the cats cause they run away far before that happens. Yes, my cats (specially at our former house because there was more of a cat population around) used to get in cat fights a lot. Run over by cars is more a function of what cat (some cats are more street smart than others). Dogs, at least in my city, are required to either be fenced in or on a leash, so unless it is an irresponsible owner that isn’t a problem either. Funny you claim this but all three of my cats have lived 12 happy years being outdoor/indoor (one being almost exclusively outdoors). It is also a function of where you live. As said before, there are places I would say it would be much better to have an indoor cat. But there are places also where having an outdoor cat is not even close to as horrible as a lot of people make it out to be. : Some do become lost, but unharmed, but that doesn’t help the : family who has lost the cat when it doesn’t come home. My cats have never been lost. One used to run away and not come back for three days if we left on vacation but that is about it. Cats tend to know their territory very well. Tigress — "Reality continues to ruin my life." … Calvin (of Calvin and Hobbes) Lover of all that is Lamborghini, defender of Porsches:     |      _,,,—,,_        Tigress    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_     http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_)         Cat drawn by Felix Lee

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> Where my mom lives,  there is little danger,  so >why not let the little buggers enjoy the great outdoors? >                    jcd

because they use other people’s gardens as litter boxes, spray through screens, torment the animals inside the house, kill birds, are subject to injury from Janet Boss<BR> Best Friends Dog Obedience<BR> "Nice Manners for the Family Pet"<BR> <BR> "Read your question for the obvious answer"

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> is more danger for the cats where my sister lives,  so they’re > kept inside.  Where my mom lives,  there is little danger,  so > why not let the little buggers enjoy the great outdoors?

I agree that many indoor/outdoor cat owners do love their pets.  However, "why not" let the dogs enjoy the great outdoors also?  It’s just as safe and just as risky. — Elizabeth B. Naime            *   Email may be forwarded and/or posted CUR 70 / FUR 212              *       * Standard Disclaimers Apply*

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Every "pet" we keep is typically an outdoor animal, but when we choose to keep them as "pets", we must keep them safe and well, in whatever manner they need.

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> > People don’t let their cats run around outside unless > they don’t want the cat anymore. Most of them don’t come > back. > I don’t agree with that one.  My mom’s cats have always been > indoor/outdoor cats.  They can come and go as they please. > Her house is far enough from the road,  and there is little traffic, > so traffic has never claimed one of the kitties.  They are very > much wanted and loved.  And they always come back.

A friend of mine in Texas has a similar situation.  She lives in a very rural locale, set back from a rarely-traveled road, and has several indoor/outdoor cats. She has at least two fewer indoor/outdoor cats since coyotes ate two of them. Roads and cars are not the only threat to free-roaming cats.  There are other animals who, even if they can’t make a meal of kitty, can engage kitty in a fight and do some serious damage, both physically and medically. Something to consider, Tirya mom of an indoor cat who fights like hell any time I *try* to take her outdoors.

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> Cats are indoor pets, too. As a matter of fact, all the cat > that I know are *exclusively* indoor cats, except on walks > with a harness. That is not to say that cats shouldn’t be > outside, but that they are not *typically* outside pets. > People don’t let their cats run around outside unless > they don’t want the cat anymore. Most of them don’t come > back.

I don’t agree with that one.  My mom’s cats have always been indoor/outdoor cats.  They can come and go as they please. Her house is far enough from the road,  and there is little traffic, so traffic has never claimed one of the kitties.  They are very much wanted and loved.  And they always come back. It depends on where you live.  My mom’s house is rural.  My sister lives in the city,  but her cats are strictly indoors.  There is more danger for the cats where my sister lives,  so they’re kept inside.  Where my mom lives,  there is little danger,  so why not let the little buggers enjoy the great outdoors?                         jcd > Robin > — > http://www.frii.com/~phouka/     not a guided tour.

–    … and they’re giving me a wonderful potion,        ’cause I cannot contain my emotion …             -Genesis (Foxtrot, "Supper’s Ready", 1972)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Trapped Mich. cats turn to cannibalism > GALIEN, Mich., Oct. 14 (UPI) – Health officials have condemned a > house in southwest Michigan where 40 cats were found abandoned and dead. >   What i am wondering is why the cats did not leave the house. and what >kind of person would let all these cats live INSIDE. Cats are typically >outdoor animals. > Michael > Dan Lungren for Governor of California > CSU College Republicans

] Due to danger from Feline Leukemia, Feline AIDS, cars, dogs, mean kids, mean adults, other cats, the train tracks behind the house, getting lost, getting turned in to Animal Control, getting stolen, being shot for pooping in other people’s gardens, not to mention regard for my neighbors and the local wildlife, my cat is kept exclusively indoors and does NOT go outside.  The evil individual who did this committed some real atrocities, but keeping cats indoors isn’t one of them… Denna Lasik "Intelligence is like a river; the deeper it runs, the less noise it makes."

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There’s also reports of elderly people who pass away, and nobody knows they’ve died, and when they are finally found because of a mailmans concern, they find the body had been eaten by the pets in the house. GROSS for sure !!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Trapped Mich. cats turn to cannibalism > GALIEN, Mich., Oct. 14 (UPI) – Health officials have condemned a > house in southwest Michigan where 40 cats were found abandoned and dead. > The Humane Society of Berrien County is calling the incident in > Galien, Mich., the worst case of animal abuse they’ve ever seen. > The 15 surviving cats found Tuesday were forced to cannibalize the > others to stay alive, after the owner left them without any food or > water. > Barb O’Brien of the Humane Society told reporters of television > station WWMT “it was just like a massive grave” in the house. O’Brien > says the entire house was filled with dead cats. Their bodies were found > upstairs, downstairs, locked in the bathroom and the bedrooms. > O’Brien says when the surviving cats were finally rescued, they > immediately went after the food and water offered them. She says one of > the cats ate so fast, he wasn’t even chewing the food. > Officials say they don’t know how long the pets were left to fend for > themselves in the house. > The pets’ owner, Leonarda Skibby, 44, was located late Tuesday night > in Wisconsin and told to call Michigan authorities. > An investigator close to the case says misdemeanor charges of cruelty > to animals are likely. That carries a minimum of 90 days in jail in > Michigan. > Humane Society officials plan to nurse the surviving cats back to > health and place them in foster homes.

Was this owner arrested or charged?         Stella Dorr

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>> Trapped Mich. cats turn to cannibalism > GALIEN, Mich., Oct. 14 (UPI) – Health officials have condemned a > house in southwest Michigan where 40 cats were found abandoned and dead.

<snip> > Humane Society officials plan to nurse the surviving cats back to > health and place them in foster homes. >Was this owner arrested or charged? > Stella Dorr

She took off for Chicago, she’s been located and charged, but the authorities are probably not going to extradite her as it’s still just a misdemeanor.  (What’s sad is that, from what has been in the paper, she probably didn’t start out to be abusive, just criminally ignorant/stupid). I’ll have to remember to send flowers or something to the folks in Animal Aid who were helping the humane society workers clean up…

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> Trapped Mich. cats turn to cannibalism > GALIEN, Mich., Oct. 14 (UPI) – Health officials have condemned a > house in southwest Michigan where 40 cats were found abandoned and dead.

   What i am wondering is why the cats did not leave the house. and what kind of person would let all these cats live INSIDE. Cats are typically outdoor animals.  Michael  Dan Lungren for Governor of California  CSU College Republicans

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> She took off for Chicago, she’s been located and charged, but the > authorities are probably not going to extradite her as it’s still just a > misdemeanor.  

Yeah, a misdemeanor with a 90 day possible jail sentence and $300 fine. This woman (regardless of her intent) should be locked in her house for weeks with no food and water. Chances are she’ll have no punishment whatsoever. Makes me embarassed to be human. Robin — http://www.frii.com/~phouka/     not a guided tour.

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>    What i am wondering is why the cats did not leave the house. and what > kind of person would let all these cats live INSIDE. Cats are typically > outdoor animals.

Cats are indoor pets, too. As a matter of fact, all the cat that I know are *exclusively* indoor cats, except on walks with a harness. That is not to say that cats shouldn’t be outside, but that they are not *typically* outside pets. People don’t let their cats run around outside unless they don’t want the cat anymore. Most of them don’t come back. Robin — http://www.frii.com/~phouka/     not a guided tour.

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>> Trapped Mich. cats turn to cannibalism > GALIEN, Mich., Oct. 14 (UPI) – Health officials have condemned a > house in southwest Michigan where 40 cats were found abandoned and dead. >   What i am wondering is why the cats did not leave the house. and what >kind of person would let all these cats live INSIDE. Cats are typically >outdoor animals.

Lots of people keep their cats indoor only. With busy roads and wild animals it’s understandable. Our cats are currently indoor only because, apart from anything, the cat flap is broken. When we get it fixed, we will continue to allow cats out only during the day, at night it will be closed and all cats will be in. So, two reasons why these cats did not leave the house, or why they were allowed to live inside. Linz — oh, not really a pedant, I wouldn’t say You can also find linz at gofar dot demon dot co dot uk

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