Pure Parents

Question:

Rose… I too, responded the w/ the same interest in this…but as you can see, the reponse was: > Good for you, I’m glad it worked.  It didn’t work with my son,  and I >didn’t > want to wait long enough for him to be killed. > Isa

Sadly, you will probably get the same.  For some people, spanking is all they know, all they think works.   I’m glad you were able to teach your boys w/o violence.  What a good lesson they are learning. Keep up the good work! Melissa—mommy to Caitlyn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >H Isabella  I couldn’t stop myself from responding to this post. Its kinda >late but better late than never. >Why do you assume your child will respond to nothing but spanking? Have you >tried explaining that the street is dangerous. I never hit my sons and I >live in a very busy area. Lots of trucks from a deli and the post office , >plus there is an alley behind us that is busy too. I laid down the rules and >they follow them. If they don’t , well then they don’t go outside. Not to >mention I have to be out there with them  most of the time, still , and they >are 5 and 7. >Hitting is wrong and it teaches them violence.How can you teach a child not >to pick on someone littler than them if you are hitting them?That is how >bullies are made. Also , I have noticed alot of kids who get hit only behave >good for their parents. Get them away from their parents and they are hell >on wheels. >If you play with your kids, never spank them and give them love everyday. >They will respect you and wanna make you happy. When my sons are bad and >they upset me. I let them know how disappointed I am in them, sometimes I >even give them the silent treatment because I am so upset with >them.Sometimes I even jump up and down and stomp my feet, anything but hit >them. Now that they are alittle older they know that some kids get spanked. >They know how lucky they are and they are thankful. >You can stop, you should stop, do it now and you will feel much better about >everything and you will be a better parent for it. >Rose, mother of 2 boys, very well behaved and still don’t go in the street >without my watching them > >Funny thing here….my daughter won’t go near the street or cars.  She >got a > >stern "No" from the time she could walk > Good for you, I’m glad it worked.  It didn’t work with my son,  and I >didn’t > want to wait long enough for him to be killed. > Isa > If you can stay calm, while all around you is chaos…then you probably >haven’t > completely understood the situation.

"…some people think I’m crazy…but who made *them* sane?" Come meet me and my family: http://pages.ivillage.com/pp/redpebb/ (to email: remove the "nospam" from my address)

Response:

>Such a volatile issue as how to raise one’s children often leaves many >parents, including me on some subjects, feeling quite defensive.  It takes a >lot of time and effort to show folks that I [you/we] are not there to judge >but to share some of the things we have learned along the way.

I completely agree (w/ everything you said, I just snipped this)…. I find myself feeling like I just need to share and share and share about the long term effects of certain forms of discipline.  I wish everyone could have the resources there to show them other methods when their children are young…I truly believe this would help w/ some of the problems of "out of control/abusive teens, etc." Of course not everything stems from abuse and negative discipline….but I know it couldn’t hurt to try. Don’t worry Aula…you didn’t go by unnoticed!  This is a subject that is close to my heart…. Melissa—mommy to Caitlyn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Melissa, >I appreciate your comment, I thought it had gone by unnoted by all. >[Sometimes, that may seem the better thing if a flamer gets hold of it >though ] >I have had many long conversations with many frustrated parents who have >felt that "they" [usually the legal officials] have taken away their only >option for addressing inappropriate behavior of their children by the way >abuse and, in some states, no-spanking laws are written/enforced.  I can >really see their side in that they are trying to do what they have been >taught, only to be told that it is no longer allowable.  They usually feel >that they turned out fine, so what is the big deal.  Most of them are >wonderful folks who just need a few more tricks in their bag in order to >keep one step ahead of their challenging children.  Most of them have not >seen what I have seen in working with severely abused children, and I truly >hope they  never do, either.  So, it takes alot of gentle persuasion to help >folks see that I [and here I must personalize this rather than use a general >we, as it is the only effective method I have found] am not judging them.  I >am there to give them more options. >Such a volatile issue as how to raise one’s children often leaves many >parents, including me on some subjects, feeling quite defensive.  It takes a >lot of time and effort to show folks that I [you/we] are not there to judge >but to share some of the things we have learned along the way.  The last >thing I ever want to do is put myself up on a pedestal that I have this >degree or this certification so I must be right.  I am not right all the >time, and there are many times where I sincerely hope that I am going to be >wrong [like when I am instructing staff to watch for certain negative >developments in certain cases]. > I fear that I am starting to ramble here, so I will close with this >summary: >spank or not to spank becomes a we versus they issue, no matter what you do. >If the whole thing is reframed into a subject more like "let;s talk about >lots of different ways to parent effectively because we all are experts on >parts of this and rank amateurs on other….’ we are more likely to work >together to help each other over the humps.  Parenting, by trained >professionals or not, is still an on-going training event in itself, full of >discovery, self-perceived mistakes, and trial and error.  We as parents >[ut-oh, I think I'm getting preachy, here - sorry] have to help each other >or we will all have more difficulties than we need or want. >- Aula > Aula… > I’m really pleased that you could add some insight to this "on going > *discussion*".  Maybe some people will listen to you because of your >background > (social worker, behavioral analyst)…with me, they just think I’m against > spanking/etc. because of the way I grew up. > I think that there are MANY other ways to discipline postively. > I just wish that more people out there saw it that way.  ::sigh:: > Melissa—mommy to Caitlyn…someone who has never, and will never, be >hit.

"…some people think I’m crazy…but who made *them* sane?" Come meet me and my family: http://pages.ivillage.com/pp/redpebb/ (to email: remove the "nospam" from my address)

Response:

Melissa, I appreciate your comment, I thought it had gone by unnoted by all. [Sometimes, that may seem the better thing if a flamer gets hold of it though ] I have had many long conversations with many frustrated parents who have felt that "they" [usually the legal officials] have taken away their only option for addressing inappropriate behavior of their children by the way abuse and, in some states, no-spanking laws are written/enforced.  I can really see their side in that they are trying to do what they have been taught, only to be told that it is no longer allowable.  They usually feel that they turned out fine, so what is the big deal.  Most of them are wonderful folks who just need a few more tricks in their bag in order to keep one step ahead of their challenging children.  Most of them have not seen what I have seen in working with severely abused children, and I truly hope they  never do, either.  So, it takes alot of gentle persuasion to help folks see that I [and here I must personalize this rather than use a general we, as it is the only effective method I have found] am not judging them.  I am there to give them more options. Such a volatile issue as how to raise one’s children often leaves many parents, including me on some subjects, feeling quite defensive.  It takes a lot of time and effort to show folks that I [you/we] are not there to judge but to share some of the things we have learned along the way.  The last thing I ever want to do is put myself up on a pedestal that I have this degree or this certification so I must be right.  I am not right all the time, and there are many times where I sincerely hope that I am going to be wrong [like when I am instructing staff to watch for certain negative developments in certain cases].  I fear that I am starting to ramble here, so I will close with this summary: spank or not to spank becomes a we versus they issue, no matter what you do. If the whole thing is reframed into a subject more like "let;s talk about lots of different ways to parent effectively because we all are experts on parts of this and rank amateurs on other….’ we are more likely to work together to help each other over the humps.  Parenting, by trained professionals or not, is still an on-going training event in itself, full of discovery, self-perceived mistakes, and trial and error.  We as parents [ut-oh, I think I'm getting preachy, here - sorry] have to help each other or we will all have more difficulties than we need or want. – Aula

> Aula… > I’m really pleased that you could add some insight to this "on going > *discussion*".  Maybe some people will listen to you because of your background > (social worker, behavioral analyst)…with me, they just think I’m against > spanking/etc. because of the way I grew up. > I think that there are MANY other ways to discipline postively. > I just wish that more people out there saw it that way.  ::sigh:: > Melissa—mommy to Caitlyn…someone who has never, and will never, be

hit.

Response:

Aula… I’m really pleased that you could add some insight to this "on going *discussion*".  Maybe some people will listen to you because of your background (social worker, behavioral analyst)…with me, they just think I’m against spanking/etc. because of the way I grew up. I think that there are MANY other ways to discipline postively. I just wish that more people out there saw it that way.  ::sigh:: Melissa—mommy to Caitlyn…someone who has never, and will never, be hit. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Ok, the social worker/behavioral analyst in the crowd just has to add her >two cents.  Most of the people who I have worked with around this issue were >actually expressing frustration that they only knew one way to deal with the >kids when they were doing something which they did not want them to do or >scared them [i.e.:  ran into traffic].  Further, after developing a >reasonable relationship with them they would admit that what they were doing >wasn’t working.  If you give people an honest opportunity to learn and >practice new ways of dealing with the kids they often find that they become >comfortable enough to use them.  Eventually they become the best advocates >of the other methods. >Now, at least one someone is going to write in and say that they have tried >time outs and they did not work.  Time outs are not a panacea; now is >spanking.  Time outs are one trick in a full bag of tricks that each parent >develops over time.  Each kid is different, each kid responds differently to >the same stimulation.  One kid will become sullen and withdrawn when you >yell at them.  Another will raise their voice right back at you.  Now what? >If the parent is to stay one step ahead of the kid and be in control [be the >adult] then they are already thinking on their feet, trying to come up with >the next way around the barn.  Alot of parents that I have worked with ran >out of solutions because they ran into a kid who presented behaviors which >were simply far enough outside their experiences that they had no idea what >would work.  They then fell back onto old, but already proven failures. >Like spanking, like endlessly lengthening groundings.  So, what is the moral >to the story?  Spanking doesn’t work:  they will hit you when they get big >enough.  Don’t believe me?  Go to family/juvenile court and listen to all >those domestic violence cases.  Now what?  Find someone else [professional >or otherwise] who can give you new ideas and work with you long enough so >that you become confident in your ability to use them without even thinking >about them.  If you have to stop to really think it through, the kid >[especially teenagers] will have surged miles ahead of you and gained >control of the situation. >Parenting is the toughest job I’ve ever taken on.  That includes the 12 >years working in a residential treatment center for severely emotionally >disturbed boys aged 8-21.  Every day I learn new stuff because I have to >keep one step ahead of Shorty.  personally, sometimes I think that he >usually moves on to the next developmental stage because I’ve finally gotten >adjusted to the current one.  But, I wouldn’t trade it for the world.  And, >all the training and experience I’ve had working with other folks’ kids only >gives me a few more tricks in my bag.  I don’t know which ones might work >with him until I try them out.  Sometimes he stumps me anyway.  That’s when >we experiment some more.  But, we will not spank him. >-Aula

"…some people think I’m crazy…but who made *them* sane?" Come meet me and my family: http://pages.ivillage.com/pp/redpebb/ (to email: remove the "nospam" from my address)

Response: