Pure Parents

Question:

"What difference does it make ‘how far you are along’ and can’t most competent doctors figure it out by external measurement as you develop?  Why a high tech expensive test for something so trivial?       "         I think for some women who have had difficulties in previous pregnancies that an u/s would have seen beforehand, it might be an good idea..For the general population, it is not usually necessary as you are right–most of the time, the external measurement is quite accurate.. I live in Canada so it may be different elsewhere, but here an u/s is not so easy to come by and (for reasons mentioned above) not extremely necessary in the majority of cases, especially early on.

Response:

I don’t know for sure if its the "rule, but I do know that parents are extremely encouraged to have only one child through monetary benefits..(they get a sum of money if they have only one)…I don’t think this thread was referring to one group specifically though..Many other countries and cultures have a preference towards having boys. Like India, for example, where infanticide is still very common for girl babies///A boy is celebrated. A girl and her mother are shamed and left alone.  CHeers.C – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > In China, where "one family-one child"  is the rule of the land, parents > were using ultrasounds in order to determine the gender of their child > (males are more desirable than females and since they only get one shot > at it, females are aborted in hopes of having a male the next try). > As a result, ultrasounds for the sole purpose of determining gender were > outlawed.   > I got this information from Parenting Magazine… I’ll have to check on > the date if anyone would care to read more.

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: > > : > > I hadn’t thought of this obvious point too! You don’t even usually have an : > > U/S until the 6 or 7 month anyway…(Unless you have already decided on : > > having an abortion–this is the only time it is done in the first : > > trimester)..C. : > > : > > : > : > Actually I think there are alot of ultrasounds done at the beginning of a : > pregnancy.  I had my first ultrasound at about 12 weeks to see how far along : > I was since I have irregular periods.  I am also reading the : > alt.kids.pregnancy ng and have read quite a few posts where they have an : > ultrasound in the first few months.  Just my experience though. : What difference does it make ‘how far you are along’ and can’t : most competent doctors figure it out by external measurement as : you develop?  Why a high tech expensive test for something so trivial? An external measurement only gives an approximation of the baby’s *size*, not its EGA. If the size and estimated age match, fine. There are cases, however, when the measurement will tell you that the baby may be large or small ‘for date’. Sometimes the causes of the size disparity are serious; IUGR and gestational diabetes for instance. But the measurement can only tell you that if you have a pretty accurate EGA. Laura Uerling

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I hadn’t thought of this obvious point too! You don’t even usually have an > U/S until the 6 or 7 month anyway…(Unless you have already decided on > having an abortion–this is the only time it is done in the first > trimester)..C. > Actually I think there are alot of ultrasounds done at the beginning of a > pregnancy.  I had my first ultrasound at about 12 weeks to see how far along > I was since I have irregular periods.  I am also reading the > alt.kids.pregnancy ng and have read quite a few posts where they have an > ultrasound in the first few months.  Just my experience though. > Christy

What difference does it make ‘how far you are along’ and can’t most competent doctors figure it out by external measurement as you develop?  Why a high tech expensive test for something so trivial?

Response:

Actually, most people I have known to have one have had their ultrasounds early on.  Mine was done in the first trimester because the doctor could not detect a heartbeat at the appropriate time using the usual methods (and having recently gone through a miscarraige, it was important to me to do so).  I can’t tell you how relieved and thrilled I was to see that little heart throbbing away and to see my child doing "flips" on the screen.  It was too early to determine the gender, but that was okay because I didn’t want to know anyway. ~Jan  

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Actually, most people I have known to have one have had their ultrasounds early on.  Mine was done in the first trimester because the doctor could not detect a heartbeat at the appropriate time using the usual methods (and having recently gone through a miscarraige, it was important to me to do so).  I can’t tell you how relieved and thrilled I was to see that little heart throbbing away and to see my child doing "flips" on the screen.  It was too early to determine the gender, but that was okay because I didn’t want to know anyway. ~Jan I just found out yesterday that we’re expecting again.  I have 3 sons and I had a miscarriage in September.  Because my 2nd son was a preemie, I have a 1st trimester ultrasound to measure my cervical length.  That’s how they discovered a blighted ovum with my 4th pregnancy.  At what should have been 9 and 12 weeks, all we saw was blackness on the u/s.  Because of this, we have decided to wait until we have an u/s with this pregnancy before we tell anyone. With my other pregnancies, I always had another u/s at 20 weeks.  Of my 3 kids, only 1 was right about the gender, so I really don’t rely on it anyhow. Tina Cameron (7/90), Caleb (7/91), Bailey (11/97), due 7/27/99

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In China, where "one family-one child"  is the rule of the land, parents were using ultrasounds in order to determine the gender of their child (males are more desirable than females and since they only get one shot at it, females are aborted in hopes of having a male the next try). As a result, ultrasounds for the sole purpose of determining gender were outlawed.   I got this information from Parenting Magazine… I’ll have to check on the date if anyone would care to read more.

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"Don’t mean to quibble, but the "usually" was in reference to the "first u/s at 6 or 7 months". I have no problem with that. You then went on to say "Unless you have already decided to have an abortion–this is the only time it is done in the first trimester." ^^^^                                             Oh wow! Laura, thanks for pointing that out…IT is funny how one misused word can screw up your whole point…I didn’t even re-read my post so I never noticed..But, No..I didn’t mean to say "only"..(bashful smirk) I think we are in total agreement now. Cheers, C.

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Hi! When you are quoting a full reply in a newsgroup, it should come up on your screen as below…If you are replying to a passage, you can state who said it first and then add quotations around the body of the passage, then add your reply underneath…. ANd yes, I think you were talking to me….No, I don’t agree either that the ONLY time a woman should have an u/s early on becuase of sex selection (which is usually impossible) or because of their having an abortion..There are other reasons due to risk factors. My point was that Most woman do not have u/s early on (relatively speaking). Most woman have them in the late months. CHeers and welcome, Cin. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I really messed up that last post.Please ignore it. > What I meant to say to star chavez was this: > I can’t tell whose side you are on in this ultra-sound debate. I can’t tell > when you are quoting or talking. I am new to newsgrouping, (well, not that new, > but new nonetheless). > Are you saying that there are really no reason for early u/s’s, other than > abortions/ sex selections? > If so, I disagree 100 percent. > Lizzanne

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: Actually, Laura, my post is still quite accurate as I said USUALLY. Most : women have pretty average no-nonsense type births. There is no real reason : for these women to have an u/s until later pregnancy (to check position : and weight)… Don’t mean to quibble, but the "usually" was in reference to the "first u/s at 6 or 7 months". I have no problem with that. You then went on to say "Unless you have already decided to have an abortion–this is the only time it is done in the first trimester." ^^^^ (my emphasis) This statement is flat-out wrong. I am perfectly willing to believe that you meant "only time for most women", or "most common reason", but that ain’t what you said! : The situations you mentioned are risk factors or are : relatively unusual so this would be cause enough for the doctors to want : to check things out–but on average, an u/s is not done until later. : Amniocentisis is also not an average procedure done in the majority of : females (as there exists some risk)..IT is performed primarily on older : women who carry risks of down syndrome etc. Agreed, a young woman with absolutely no risk factors, and whose pregnancy is proceeding as expected probably won’t need an 1st trimester u/s. However, since it is pretty commonly used to determine EGA and check for miscarriages, it is also not what I’d call rare. :  However, I too, have never heard of a doc. refusing to tell you what sex, : but more of as you had said–they do tend to hedge a bit, which is : understandable. :  But, just to clarify one point, I never said you had abortion on your : mind when you had your u/s done–just that the primary reason it is done : on first trimester pregnancies is to determine EGA in women who have : consented to have abortions. Never thought you did–I’m not *that* thin-skinned! I just don’t want folks to assume that if a woman has a first trimester u/s that she is considering an abortion. When I decided to have an amnio, my know-it-all sister-in-law gave me a lecture about how she would never have an amnio because she could never abort her baby. It really bugged me that she would assume–after years of infertility treatments–that just because I wanted an amnio it meant I would blithely abort any less-than-perfect child. Sorry, pushed my buttons. (I’d almost forgotten they were there!) Laura Uerling

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I really messed up that last post.Please ignore it. What I meant to say to star chavez was this: I can’t tell whose side you are on in this ultra-sound debate. I can’t tell when you are quoting or talking. I am new to newsgrouping, (well, not that new, but new nonetheless). Are you saying that there are really no reason for early u/s’s, other than abortions/ sex selections? If so, I disagree 100 percent. Lizzanne

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In article > "Actually, I’ve *never* heard of technicians refusing to tell you the sex > of your child. I know a lot of them hedge their bets, since it is hard > to tell from an ultrasound, especially early on. Heck, really early on > it’s downright impossible. >        " > This is a good point I forgot to mention–that it is near impossible to > tell so early—-! ANd one other thing–I can understand that many > cultures favour boy births ..but I didn’t think this was such an issue > wiht anglo-North AMerican culture. I was very pleased and excited to be > having a girl! WHat gives here? Is this really a problem with couples of > today?? CHeers.C

I have read that the Canadian problem was with immigrant groups — so as not to single out particular ethnic groups all mothers were denied information about gender from ultrasound.  This is second hand info — perhaps some Canadian posters actually know the facts.

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> I hadn’t thought of this obvious point too! You don’t even usually have an > U/S until the 6 or 7 month anyway…(Unless you have already decided on > having an abortion–this is the only time it is done in the first > trimester)..C.

Actually I think there are alot of ultrasounds done at the beginning of a pregnancy.  I had my first ultrasound at about 12 weeks to see how far along I was since I have irregular periods.  I am also reading the alt.kids.pregnancy ng and have read quite a few posts where they have an ultrasound in the first few months.  Just my experience though. Christy

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star chavez writes: >"Sorry, not true…there are plenty of good medical reasons to have an >ultrasound in the 1st trimester. For example, the doctor may want to >confirm >or check on the status of a pregnancy, to rule out multiples, to rule out

Lizzanne

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"I had mine done very early because I couldn’t remember when my last period was and they needed to know how far along I was.     " If you are fit and have no evident risk factors , this is the only reason they will perform an u/s early on or the most part (that is if they can’t readily tell by abdominal/internal measurement.  Most women you see getting u/s ’s done at early gestation are in there for this purpose..However, the  majority of these women are having TA’s done (and really NEED to know how far along they are!). WHen I had mine at 16 weeks for this purpose (like you just to verify EGA) and with intentions of continuing the pregnancy.., the lab tech. would not speak to me and would not turn the screen my way (even when I asked her!)..I finally clued in that she thought I was in there for an abortion when she asked "Wouldn’t it be too upsetting for me to see the screen?"  She was a little confused when I started asking all these questions (with a satisfied grin on my face–) such as "Can I take the pictures home?"  CHeers. C

Response:

"Actually, I’ve *never* heard of technicians refusing to tell you the sex > of your child. I know a lot of them hedge their bets, since it is hard > to tell from an ultrasound, especially early on. Heck, really early on > it’s downright impossible.

       " This is a good point I forgot to mention–that it is near impossible to tell so early—-! ANd one other thing–I can understand that many cultures favour boy births ..but I didn’t think this was such an issue wiht anglo-North AMerican culture. I was very pleased and excited to be having a girl! WHat gives here? Is this really a problem with couples of today?? CHeers.C

Response:

"Sorry, not true…there are plenty of good medical reasons to have an ultrasound in the 1st trimester. For example, the doctor may want to confirm or check on the status of a pregnancy, to rule out multiples, to rule out an ectopic pregnancy, etc. I had ultrasounds with my daughter at 6 and 7 weeks, and as I was being treated for infertility, an abortion was certainly the *last* thing on my mind! Ultrasound is I believe also used in CVS testing, and for amniocentesis, which is done early in the second trimester. Actually, I’ve *never* heard of technicians refusing to tell you the sex of your child. I know a lot of them hedge their bets, since it is hard to tell from an ultrasound, especially early on. Heck, really early on it’s downright impossible.           " Actually, Laura, my post is still quite accurate as I said USUALLY. Most women have pretty average no-nonsense type births. There is no real reason for these women to have an u/s until later pregnancy (to check position and weight)…The situations you mentioned are risk factors or are relatively unusual so this would be cause enough for the doctors to want to check things out–but on average, an u/s is not done until later. Amniocentisis is also not an average procedure done in the majority of females (as there exists some risk)..IT is performed primarily on older women who carry risks of down syndrome etc.  However, I too, have never heard of a doc. refusing to tell you what sex, but more of as you had said–they do tend to hedge a bit, which is understandable.  But, just to clarify one point, I never said you had abortion on your mind when you had your u/s done–just that the primary reason it is done on first trimester pregnancies is to determine EGA in women who have consented to have abortions. CHeers,C

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > : I hadn’t thought of this obvious point too! You don’t even usually have an > : U/S until the 6 or 7 month anyway…(Unless you have already decided on > : having an abortion–this is the only time it is done in the first > : trimester)..C. > Sorry, not true…there are plenty of good medical reasons to have an > ultrasound in the 1st trimester. For example, the doctor may want to confirm > or check on the status of a pregnancy, to rule out multiples, to rule out an > ectopic pregnancy, etc. I had ultrasounds with my daughter at 6 and 7 > weeks, and as I was being treated for infertility, an abortion was > certainly the *last* thing on my mind! Ultrasound is I believe also used > in CVS testing, and for amniocentesis, which is done early in the second > trimester.

I had mine done very early because I couldn’t remember when my last period was and they needed to know how far along I was. > Actually, I’ve *never* heard of technicians refusing to tell you the sex > of your child. I know a lot of them hedge their bets, since it is hard > to tell from an ultrasound, especially early on. Heck, really early on > it’s downright impossible.

I believe that this is a new trend, I’ve only heard about it recently, and I think it started in the States. At least the first person I heard about it from was my Godmother who lives down there. — Paige proud to be Outlandish (to e-mail double the p and take out the "reston")

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I hadn’t thought of this obvious point too! You don’t even usually have an U/S until the 6 or 7 month anyway…(Unless you have already decided on having an abortion–this is the only time it is done in the first trimester)..C. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > HI Karla! > Actually I live here in Canada, and it is true..many technicians will not > tell the couple until after a certain date what sex the baby is…for fear > of abortion*S*

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: I hadn’t thought of this obvious point too! You don’t even usually have an : U/S until the 6 or 7 month anyway…(Unless you have already decided on : having an abortion–this is the only time it is done in the first : trimester)..C. Sorry, not true…there are plenty of good medical reasons to have an ultrasound in the 1st trimester. For example, the doctor may want to confirm or check on the status of a pregnancy, to rule out multiples, to rule out an ectopic pregnancy, etc. I had ultrasounds with my daughter at 6 and 7 weeks, and as I was being treated for infertility, an abortion was certainly the *last* thing on my mind! Ultrasound is I believe also used in CVS testing, and for amniocentesis, which is done early in the second trimester. Actually, I’ve *never* heard of technicians refusing to tell you the sex of your child. I know a lot of them hedge their bets, since it is hard to tell from an ultrasound, especially early on. Heck, really early on it’s downright impossible. Laura Uerling

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HI Karla! Actually I live here in Canada, and it is true..many technicians will not tell the couple until after a certain date what sex the baby is…for fear of abortion*S*

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There isn’t a law against telling the sex of a child BUT many hospitals have passed internal policies that won’t allow for it and the hospitals that do tell you have a few stipulations. One is that they won’t tell you until the third trimester so that an abortion isn’t really an option. The staff often won’t tell you, they give the information to your doctor and he/she can decide what your motivation for asking is. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I’ve heard that in Canada (that’s where I live) from a person I know who >pregnant, although I haven’t heard anything first hand. That there was >some case where a certain group of people were getting ultra-sounds done >to determine the sex and then aborting if it was not male. And now >there’s some kind of law saying they can’t tell you anymore. >BTW if anyone else has heard anything about this please let me know.

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> just choose a color other than pink or blue, buy mainly sleepers and baby > gowns are all you need for the first while anyways. We decorated our > nursery in purple. > I’ve heard that in Canada (that’s where I live) from a person I know who > pregnant, although I haven’t heard anything first hand. That there was > some case where a certain group of people were getting ultra-sounds done > to determine the sex and then aborting if it was not male. And now > there’s some kind of law saying they can’t tell you anymore. > BTW if anyone else has heard anything about this please let me know. > But you’ve got to think to yourself does if even matter????

I saw somethinglike that on ER the other night, and thought "That’s disgusting!" but apparently it’s true. One other reason I wouldn’t want to know is because it’s amazing how many times the technicians are wrong. When I was pregnant my husband DID want to find out and we had so many people saying not to bother because they were told they were getting one and got the other.   We finally decided to be surprised and it was great. — Paige Mother of Victoria Proud to be Outlandish (to e-mail double the p and take out the "reston")

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just choose a color other than pink or blue, buy mainly sleepers and baby gowns are all you need for the first while anyways. We decorated our nursery in purple. I’ve heard that in Canada (that’s where I live) from a person I know who pregnant, although I haven’t heard anything first hand. That there was some case where a certain group of people were getting ultra-sounds done to determine the sex and then aborting if it was not male. And now there’s some kind of law saying they can’t tell you anymore. BTW if anyone else has heard anything about this please let me know. But you’ve got to think to yourself does if even matter????

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"I’ve heard that in Canada (that’s where I live) from a person I know who pregnant, although I haven’t heard anything first hand. That there was some case where a certain group of people were getting ultra-sounds done to determine the sex and then aborting if it was not male. And now there’s some kind of law saying they can’t tell you anymore. BTW if anyone else has heard anything about this please let me know. " Hiya,  I live in Canada and have not heard of this…though that doesn’t mean it isn’t true…However, I work in a Womens clinic sometimes so I will check it out and post back. (Although I do have my doubts that its true).  I do know that many lab techs. or docs. are paranoid about letting people know and usually state their disclaimer. This "group" of people could perhaps be ethnic as in, for example, India..there are Ultrasound clinics on every corner so that women can determine the sex for this very purpose..I don’t agree with the practice but it is a heavily mired cultural issue at this point. CHeers<C.

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