>Thank you.  I will killfile Steve.  Can you tell me how?  And should I also >killfile everyone who mentions the word Steve or all threads that include >Steve because some might have responded to Steve in a similar manner?  Yes, >Nan, you’re right.  I’m just an attention seeking griping middle aged mother >who has nothing better to do than post messages so I can see my own writing. >Big fun!

One question. Should we also killfile people who mention the word "faggot" compulsivily? I’ve really seen huge posts whcih contain the word faggot there and i dont really think fat people are that bad, some are nice and that’s kinda mean to encage them all to perverts, dont you guys think? regards, maia

Response:

> P. S. Nan, I don’t seem to have something to click called "message." Maybe > I don’t have a new enough version of OE.  Can anyone else tell me how to > kill file?

Hmm… across the top of your window, you should see buttons that say, file, edit, view, insert, format, tools, message, and help.  If you don’t, I guess you could have an older version of OE, but I’m pretty sure even the last version I had, had this option. Another option is to click on tools, then on Message rules, then on "news". A window will open and you can create a rule for blocking.  It’s more difficult that way, but it works. — ~Nan~<– Remove XX to e-mail me

Response:

> P. S. Nan, I don’t seem to have something to click called "message." Maybe > I don’t have a new enough version of OE.  Can anyone else tell me how to > kill file?

You are using:  X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0.  I am not familiar with that version.  I suggest reading Help to find the "Block Sender" option.  In OE5 the steps are: – select a message from the person whom you wish to block [killfile] – select menu option "message" [upper left, main menu area] – select "block sender" and, voila, sender is blocked. Good luck.  Killfile is a very useful item, although i rarely have more than two or three in there at any given time. -Aula

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m really not basing my conclusion on just > one poster, just the most prolific one.  You’re absolutely right.  I have > better ways to waste my time than spending it wading through endless posts > about, involving, and in response to Steve.  If I really did want to share > with other like-minded parents issues about parenting, I’ve obviously > (ironically) come to the wrong place at alt.parenting.solutions >If all you wanted to do was the moral equivalent of sharing cookie >recipe’s, then sure, instead you got an issue-oriented group where >everything is debated seriously because there are severe disagreements >about these issues abroad in the culture. If you wanted a collection of >mealy-mouthed people stating points of view but ignoring each others >points of view so you can select from among them like a fucking chinese >menu, then you definitely came to the wrong place! >Steve

I don’t call verbally abusing people who disagree with you serious debate. The only serious debate for you seems to be who you think is the biggest moron.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I’m really not basing my conclusion on just >> one poster, just the most prolific one.  You’re absolutely right.  I have >> better ways to waste my time than spending it wading through endless > posts >> about, involving, and in response to Steve.  If I really did want to > share >> with other like-minded parents issues about parenting, I’ve obviously >> (ironically) come to the wrong place at alt.parenting.solutions >If all you wanted to do was the moral equivalent of sharing cookie >recipe’s, then sure, instead you got an issue-oriented group where >everything is debated seriously because there are severe disagreements >about these issues abroad in the culture. If you wanted a collection of >mealy-mouthed people stating points of view but ignoring each others >points of view so you can select from among them like a fucking chinese >menu, then you definitely came to the wrong place! >Steve > I don’t call verbally abusing people who disagree with you serious debate. > The only serious debate for you seems to be who you think is the biggest > moron.

You’re doing just what you came in here complaining of others to be doing, which is responding to steve.  <sigh> — ~Nan~<– Remove XX to e-mail me

Response:

> My message to you, Steve is that you are not going to convince anyone by the > unbelievable amount of abusive language you seem to find so appealing, so > why do you bother?

I enjoy calling the people whom I think should be killed, maimed, or enslaved and prevented from even speaking, the worst possible things I can think of. It’s immensely satisfying!! It’s the next vest thing to torture-killing them. >  All you’re succeeding at is making people ignore you.

They don’t DARE! I might say soemthing about THEM, dontcha know! > And, yes, I do know what fallacy in argument is and I do know that when you > attack the person instead of the idea you are presenting a fallacious > argument (*ad hominem*= to the man–or person–and that’s only one of many).

Not if you believe the "man" is the one at fault. It’s not an argument, it’s pure HATE! When I’m arguing with you you’ll see long-winded paragraphs of logical explanation. That’s how you’ll know. I present both logical reason and also hateful vituperation. The best of both worlds. > If you believe that calling people morons and idiots and every other > expletive is therapeutic for you, go right ahead.  Just don’t delude > yourself that you’re convincing anyone of anything.

I count on logic to do the work of logic and hate to do the work of hate. A place for everything all at the same time. You see: I hate the everlovin’ shit out of most people I’ve ever met, and love the rest of them dearly. When I convince the minority to kill off that majority we’ll all have a wonderful time on this planet as we’re supposed to. > If you really cared > about children, you would find a better way to get your message out there. > It’s too bad; maybe you could do some good.

Maybe. The world is a pile of shit and most people are full of erroneous shit up past their eye-sockets, it may take 1000 years to fix, but then if people took MY advice I think it could be done in 10. But it might take 1000 years simply to convince enough of them to begin my "10-year plan"! > You’re right, everybody, Steve can say whatever he wants.  Whether I agree > or disagree or can even decipher the point he’s trying to make in between, > matters not one bit.

Probably not. Steve

Response:

You know, I had no idea what I was getting myself into when I commented in this newsgroup.  Please don’t assume that you know anything about me and whether I agree or disagree with you.  Just because you say in a newsgroup that you have children doesn’t make it true.  Maybe you have the most wonderful children in the world, who think the same of you; maybe you don’t. At this point, after so many issues have been raised, I no longer find it relevant. My message to you, Steve is that you are not going to convince anyone by the unbelievable amount of abusive language you seem to find so appealing, so why do you bother?  All you’re succeeding at is making people ignore you. And, yes, I do know what fallacy in argument is and I do know that when you attack the person instead of the idea you are presenting a fallacious argument (*ad hominem*= to the man–or person–and that’s only one of many). If you believe that calling people morons and idiots and every other expletive is therapeutic for you, go right ahead.  Just don’t delude yourself that you’re convincing anyone of anything.  If you really cared about children, you would find a better way to get your message out there. It’s too bad; maybe you could do some good. You’re right, everybody, Steve can say whatever he wants.  Whether I agree or disagree or can even decipher the point he’s trying to make in between, matters not one bit.  Thanks anyway. P. S. Nan, I don’t seem to have something to click called "message."  Maybe I don’t have a new enough version of OE.  Can anyone else tell me how to kill file? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Subtitle:  Why are you here, Steve? > First of all, he does not have children >First error, I have two, ages 27M and 25F. > and has no clue about children. >Second error. My kids feel that I did wonderfully. > Isn’t it obvious? >It’s obvious that you’re wrong! Is that what you mean? > Second, every time he gets in a little over his head, he > starts calling people idiots and liars. >1) I don’t "get in over my head", and 2) I call my enemies those things >ALL the time. >  He’s really a child himself. >No, I’m 51. > Isn’t > that also obvious? >It’s obvious that you’re wrong! Is that what you mean? >  The question is, Steve, and this coming from someone who > actually came to this newsgroup to read about "parenting solutions," why are > you here? >To explain and defend a better way of rasiing children and to assault >the enemies of children. >Steve

Response:

> I’m not sure who made you spokesperson for the group,

No one is, and everyone is. > I was particularly > nauseated by some of the comments on child sexual abuse, which, as > incoherent as Steve is, he seems to think is A-OK.

No. Child "abuse" is not OK with me, but children consenting to sex is not abuse. Your error is thinking that it is. You see: I myself WAS such a sexually precocious pre-adolescent child and teen, I LIKED sex, craved it, and I know MANY *MANY* more who were like me. I was not authority-abused or shamed about sex, and that was one reason why I WAS fully sexual early. I have no interest in children personally now, but as a child I was sexually interested in older kids and adults! Many of my fond memories and fantasies, even though I also love group-sex with my friends, and with plump-tummied fat-assed hairy women my own age, ALSO involve myself as the child and the sexual exploits of children AS a child !!! So MAKE NO MISTAKE: As an adult children are NOT interesting to me sexually. I haven’t been interested in sex with kids since I WAS a kid. And consequently I am a defender of children’s rights to their autonomy and their sexuality and their own sexual freedom and their choices. So if you wish to try to denigrate me at least get your facts straight!! Steve

Response:

> I know Nan and I don’t *think* that your sarcasm offended her in > the slightest.  If I’m not mistaken, what she was saying is that > to complain about what someone else has to say on usenet is > pretty useless, especially when almost everybody else has figured > out how to deal with him.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to this, Glen.  I was in a hurry to get my housework done, take care of the babe, and get ready for work, so my answers were short.  And no, nobody ever offends me — ~Nan~<– Remove XX to e-mail me

Response:

>Well, gosh, Nan, I don’t think saying that I was griping just to see my own >post was very nice either.  Perhaps sarcasm is just a different kind of not >being very nice.  I’m not sure who made you spokesperson for the group, but >I think I have made some valid pts about the group.  It would be darn near >impossible to name the offenders individually, and if you take my statements >about the group– which you have to admit are frequently off the >subject–personally, I apologize for that.

Aw, look; what you said had a lot of validity.  It has been said my multitudes of people since he has been posting, here. But the point is that usenet is anarchy in its purest form. There is nothing that anybody could do about all of his innane off-topic rants except by the use of killfiles. Would you have his account yanked because he says things that offend you?  (not gonna happen, BTW, because John is one of those kool dudes who feels that everybody on the net is an adult …. or should be treated like one … and is comfortable allowing people to make their own decisions) If you *could* get his account pulled because what he says offends you, next would be who?  Who is next in line to offend you?  Nan, perhaps?  Me? Do you see where that would go, ultimately?  Most people are offended by something and if that is an offense that earns one’s account being pulled, eventually there would be only one person on the net, talking to themself. >Thank you for telling me how to killfile.  I will do that with Steve.

There ya go! I would hazard a guess that if it were possible to add up all of the people in all of the killfiles on usenet, he would be somewhere in the top 10.  I woulda said that he would be #1, except that there is Alex (who cross-posts widely, so has a wider audience for killfiles) and Brad from the psych groups, who has been around almost as long as I have been on the net. By comparison to those two, he is small potatoes … well, this is a good description of him, anyway.  He is relatively new here, so he doesn’t have the advantege of pissing people off for almost 20 years. Heck, you *might* think of him as a newbie, and with that attiture, it wqould be perfectly acceptable to killfile him by his own "philosophy" ("It’s OK to have abortions because a fetus is too new to have awareness or memories.") So killfile away and do it with a clean conscience. >Here’s some more sarcasm for you.  I know a seasoned insider like yourself >must see someone like me as being terribly tiresome for coming to this >newsgroup and complaining about someone like Steve.

Well, it has been done to death. >  I am no stranger to >computers but haven’t signed on to very many newsgroups.  And when someone >like me signs on to a newsgroup about parenting and sees the kinds of things >going on here, a certain amount of anger is bound to arise because, well, I >haven’t been around the block with Steve like you have.  

OK, notice:  You will find off-topic stuff in almost every newsgroup.  You will find cranks in almost every newsgroup.  Keep yer finger in the trigger of yer killfile.  Use it well and use it often. >I was particularly >nauseated by some of the comments on child sexual abuse, which, as >incoherent as Steve is, he seems to think is A-OK.  Here comes the sarcastic >part.  Forgive me for becoming a little upset and >griping/complaining/whining about it.  

And that griping/complaining/whining will do …. what?  Add to the Steve-related traffic in this group? See where she is coming from? >What’s really interesting is that you >think Steve ever has something worthwhile to say, but my sarcasm offends you >so deeply.  Go figure!

Recallibrate. There is not more than a handfull of people in the entire world who think that he has something worthwhile to say.  It’s just that, occasionally, he might slip something almost acceptable into his innane rants …. if you look *really* closely and squint. I know Nan and I don’t *think* that your sarcasm offended her in the slightest.  If I’m not mistaken, what she was saying is that to complain about what someone else has to say on usenet is pretty useless, especially when almost everybody else has figured out how to deal with him. "Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on who we love." — "A General Theory Of Love"  Thanks, Mom

Response:

> Yes, maybe I was being judgmental about the whole group, but unfortunately, > every time I look at a thread I think might be helpful, I notice Steve > inserting his name-calling and fallacious arguments,

That you will need to address logically, I bet you can’t. > obscuring any valuable > information that might come out of a newsgroup like this one.  I never said > he bothered me that much.  I just don’t understand why he’s here.  I do not > agree that "coming up with something useful now and then" (by pure chance, > perhaps) is enough of a reason.  He makes it obvious that his main reason > for being here is attacking people,

No, that’s only ONE of my reasons, and I only attack those whom I regard as the enemies of children and humanity generally. > and much of what he says is "off the > deep end"

Lessee, that just means you don’t agree. You will need to say why. > not just "at times."  And it certainly gets him a lot of > attention–what he craves most, I’m sure, and I suppose you could say I’m no > better for giving him this attention now.

Everyone posting here could be denigrated by saying they do so "just for the attention", but it’s not precisely true, people are here to defend abstractions. > Regrettably, people who come to a newsgroup for the first time looking for a > discussion of "parenting solutions" find only Steve, Steve and more Steve > responding inappropriately to almost every topic,

It’s not "inappropriate", you simply disagree with it. You’ll have to say why! > and when it’s not Steve, > it’s people responding to Steve.  Truly, I do feel some sympathy for him and > what must be a bitter, empty life.

This hobby takes no more than 1.5 hours a day, and is enjoyable. >  Admittedly, I know nothing about his > life, except what I see here–oops, being judgmental again–but you > certainly seem to "know" something.  How would you know he has grown > children, unless you are a personal acquaintance and/or friend of his?

A couple lurkers here DO know me personally. > Maybe that’s why you seem to approve of his atrocious behavior.

She didn’t say that. > Really, Nan, thanks for pointing out to me that I’m an outsider, not worthy > of people like you and Steve.

You’re as welcome here as anyone else. > I’m really not basing my conclusion on just > one poster, just the most prolific one.  You’re absolutely right.  I have > better ways to waste my time than spending it wading through endless posts > about, involving, and in response to Steve.  If I really did want to share > with other like-minded parents issues about parenting, I’ve obviously > (ironically) come to the wrong place at alt.parenting.solutions

If all you wanted to do was the moral equivalent of sharing cookie recipe’s, then sure, instead you got an issue-oriented group where everything is debated seriously because there are severe disagreements about these issues abroad in the culture. If you wanted a collection of mealy-mouthed people stating points of view but ignoring each others points of view so you can select from among them like a fucking chinese menu, then you definitely came to the wrong place! Steve

Response:

> Subtitle:  Why are you here, Steve? > First of all, he does not have children

First error, I have two, ages 27M and 25F. > and has no clue about children.

Second error. My kids feel that I did wonderfully. > Isn’t it obvious?

It’s obvious that you’re wrong! Is that what you mean? > Second, every time he gets in a little over his head, he > starts calling people idiots and liars.

1) I don’t "get in over my head", and 2) I call my enemies those things ALL the time. >  He’s really a child himself.

No, I’m 51. > Isn’t > that also obvious?

It’s obvious that you’re wrong! Is that what you mean? >  The question is, Steve, and this coming from someone who > actually came to this newsgroup to read about "parenting solutions," why are > you here?

To explain and defend a better way of rasiing children and to assault the enemies of children. Steve

Response:

> Thank you.  I will killfile Steve.  Can you tell me how?  And should I also > killfile everyone who mentions the word Steve or all threads that include > Steve because some might have responded to Steve in a similar manner? Yes, > Nan, you’re right.  I’m just an attention seeking griping middle aged mother > who has nothing better to do than post messages so I can see my own writing. > Big fun!

You’re not the first person who has come in here, blasting away, about Steve.  And, you chose to insult everyone with your sweeping generalizations. If you’re using OE, just click on "message", then "block sender" when you’re on one of his posts. Your sarcasm tells me you’re not interested in participating in the group, however. — ~Nan~<– Remove XX to e-mail me – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> So, killfile him. >>But, but, that’s such an *easy* solution.  I swear sometimes I think > people >>just like to gripe to see their own posts… >>– >>~Nan~<– >Yup.  I do think that’s what’s going on. >But in all fairness, sometimes to kf Steve is to kf about 3/4 of the posts! >And even killfiling isn’t effective if too many people get involved with > the >killfiles poster, and the quality of the newsgroup goes down.  In this > case, >however, so many people have killfiled him, that the discussions by and > large >proceed without him very well.  Certain once-useful threads, though, do get >"Stevified". >Banty

Response:

Well, gosh, Nan, I don’t think saying that I was griping just to see my own post was very nice either.  Perhaps sarcasm is just a different kind of not being very nice.  I’m not sure who made you spokesperson for the group, but I think I have made some valid pts about the group.  It would be darn near impossible to name the offenders individually, and if you take my statements about the group– which you have to admit are frequently off the subject–personally, I apologize for that. Thank you for telling me how to killfile.  I will do that with Steve. Here’s some more sarcasm for you.  I know a seasoned insider like yourself must see someone like me as being terribly tiresome for coming to this newsgroup and complaining about someone like Steve.  I am no stranger to computers but haven’t signed on to very many newsgroups.  And when someone like me signs on to a newsgroup about parenting and sees the kinds of things going on here, a certain amount of anger is bound to arise because, well, I haven’t been around the block with Steve like you have.  I was particularly nauseated by some of the comments on child sexual abuse, which, as incoherent as Steve is, he seems to think is A-OK.  Here comes the sarcastic part.  Forgive me for becoming a little upset and griping/complaining/whining about it.  What’s really interesting is that you think Steve ever has something worthwhile to say, but my sarcasm offends you so deeply.  Go figure! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thank you.  I will killfile Steve.  Can you tell me how?  And should I >also > killfile everyone who mentions the word Steve or all threads that include > Steve because some might have responded to Steve in a similar manner? >Yes, > Nan, you’re right.  I’m just an attention seeking griping middle aged >mother > who has nothing better to do than post messages so I can see my own >writing. > Big fun! >You’re not the first person who has come in here, blasting away, about >Steve.  And, you chose to insult everyone with your sweeping >generalizations. >If you’re using OE, just click on "message", then "block sender" when you’re >on one of his posts. >Your sarcasm tells me you’re not interested in participating in the group, >however. >– >~Nan~<– >Remove XX to e-mail me > >>> So, killfile him. > >>But, but, that’s such an *easy* solution.  I swear sometimes I think > people > >>just like to gripe to see their own posts… > >>– > >>~Nan~<– > >Yup.  I do think that’s what’s going on. > >But in all fairness, sometimes to kf Steve is to kf about 3/4 of the >posts! > >And even killfiling isn’t effective if too many people get involved with > the > >killfiles poster, and the quality of the newsgroup goes down.  In this > case, > >however, so many people have killfiled him, that the discussions by and > large > >proceed without him very well.  Certain once-useful threads, though, do >get > >"Stevified". > >Banty

Response:

Thank you.  I will killfile Steve.  Can you tell me how?  And should I also killfile everyone who mentions the word Steve or all threads that include Steve because some might have responded to Steve in a similar manner?  Yes, Nan, you’re right.  I’m just an attention seeking griping middle aged mother who has nothing better to do than post messages so I can see my own writing. Big fun! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> So, killfile him. >But, but, that’s such an *easy* solution.  I swear sometimes I think people >just like to gripe to see their own posts… >– >~Nan~<– >Yup.  I do think that’s what’s going on. >But in all fairness, sometimes to kf Steve is to kf about 3/4 of the posts! >And even killfiling isn’t effective if too many people get involved with the >killfiles poster, and the quality of the newsgroup goes down.  In this case, >however, so many people have killfiled him, that the discussions by and large >proceed without him very well.  Certain once-useful threads, though, do get >"Stevified". >Banty

Response:

I just emailed this woman to tell her to reconsider…in defense of our group, we have terrific individuals who have been extremely helpful to one another. There is usually one bad apple in any group, and for us, it is Steve. I don’t think he means any real harm, but depending upon what kind of hair day he is having, he either dishes it out intelligently (which I so very much appreciate because he surprises me sometimes) or needs to mutter it out because he has his head up his butt. Susan

Response:

>> So, killfile him. >But, but, that’s such an *easy* solution.  I swear sometimes I think people >just like to gripe to see their own posts… >– >~Nan~<–

Yup.  I do think that’s what’s going on. But in all fairness, sometimes to kf Steve is to kf about 3/4 of the posts! And even killfiling isn’t effective if too many people get involved with the killfiles poster, and the quality of the newsgroup goes down.  In this case, however, so many people have killfiled him, that the discussions by and large proceed without him very well.  Certain once-useful threads, though, do get "Stevified". Banty

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> So, killfile him. >But, but, that’s such an *easy* solution.  I swear sometimes I think people >just like to gripe to see their own posts… >– >~Nan~<– > Yup.  I do think that’s what’s going on. > But in all fairness, sometimes to kf Steve is to kf about 3/4 of the

posts! Between Steve and explorer, I think 85%-90% of the posts get dumped on my server.  But, that’s okay, because it leaves the more meaningful ones open > And even killfiling isn’t effective if too many people get involved with the > killfiles poster, and the quality of the newsgroup goes down.  In this case, > however, so many people have killfiled him, that the discussions by and large > proceed without him very well.  Certain once-useful threads, though, do get > "Stevified".

"Stevified" is a pretty apt term.  Usually once he jumps in with his nonsense, the meaningful discussion has passed it’s time. — ~Nan~<– Remove XX to e-mail me – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Banty

Response:

> I just emailed this woman to tell her to reconsider…in defense of our group, > we have terrific individuals who have been extremely helpful to one another. > There is usually one bad apple in any group, and for us, it is Steve. I don’t > think he means any real harm, but depending upon what kind of hair day he is > having, he either dishes it out intelligently (which I so very much appreciate > because he surprises me sometimes) or needs to mutter it out because he has his > head up his butt. > Susan

The thing is, there are some very good discussions here.  Problem is, wading through the junk.  It seems like at least once a month, if not more often, a new poster comes in and rants about Steve.  I know I don’t foresee this group improving any time soon, but I keep it on my server because there is the ocassional good discussion.  Once in a while, I’ll let Steve out of my sin bin, but he goes back whenever he starts ranting again — ~Nan~<– Remove XX to e-mail me

Response:

> So, killfile him.

But, but, that’s such an *easy* solution.  I swear sometimes I think people just like to gripe to see their own posts… — ~Nan~<– Remove XX to e-mail me – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Yes, maybe I was being judgmental about the whole group, but unfortunately, >every time I look at a thread I think might be helpful, I notice Steve >inserting his name-calling and fallacious arguments, obscuring any valuable >information that might come out of a newsgroup like this one.  I never said >he bothered me that much.  I just don’t understand why he’s here.  I do not >agree that "coming up with something useful now and then" (by pure chance, >perhaps) is enough of a reason.  He makes it obvious that his main reason >for being here is attacking people, and much of what he says is "off the >deep end" not just "at times."  And it certainly gets him a lot of >attention–what he craves most, I’m sure, and I suppose you could say I’m no >better for giving him this attention now. >Regrettably, people who come to a newsgroup for the first time looking for a >discussion of "parenting solutions" find only Steve, Steve and more Steve >responding inappropriately to almost every topic, and when it’s not Steve, >it’s people responding to Steve.  Truly, I do feel some sympathy for him and >what must be a bitter, empty life.  Admittedly, I know nothing about his >life, except what I see here–oops, being judgmental again–but you >certainly seem to "know" something.  How would you know he has grown >children, unless you are a personal acquaintance and/or friend of his? >Maybe that’s why you seem to approve of his atrocious behavior. >Really, Nan, thanks for pointing out to me that I’m an outsider, not worthy >of people like you and Steve.  I’m really not basing my conclusion on just >one poster, just the most prolific one.  You’re absolutely right.  I have >better ways to waste my time than spending it wading through endless posts >about, involving, and in response to Steve.  If I really did want to share >with other like-minded parents issues about parenting, I’ve obviously >(ironically) come to the wrong place at alt.parenting.solutions

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yes, maybe I was being judgmental about the whole group, but unfortunately, > every time I look at a thread I think might be helpful, I notice Steve > inserting his name-calling and fallacious arguments, obscuring any valuable > information that might come out of a newsgroup like this one.  I never said > he bothered me that much.  I just don’t understand why he’s here.  I do not > agree that "coming up with something useful now and then" (by pure chance, > perhaps) is enough of a reason.  He makes it obvious that his main reason > for being here is attacking people, and much of what he says is "off the > deep end" not just "at times."  And it certainly gets him a lot of > attention–what he craves most, I’m sure, and I suppose you could say I’m no > better for giving him this attention now.

Bingo. > Regrettably, people who come to a newsgroup for the first time looking for a > discussion of "parenting solutions" find only Steve, Steve and more Steve > responding inappropriately to almost every topic, and when it’s not Steve, > it’s people responding to Steve.  Truly, I do feel some sympathy for him and > what must be a bitter, empty life.  Admittedly, I know nothing about his > life, except what I see here–oops, being judgmental again–but you > certainly seem to "know" something.  How would you know he has grown > children, unless you are a personal acquaintance and/or friend of his? > Maybe that’s why you seem to approve of his atrocious behavior.

Steve has talked about his grown children, in here. > Really, Nan, thanks for pointing out to me that I’m an outsider, not worthy > of people like you and Steve.  I’m really not basing my conclusion on just > one poster, just the most prolific one.  You’re absolutely right.  I have > better ways to waste my time than spending it wading through endless posts > about, involving, and in response to Steve.  If I really did want to share > with other like-minded parents issues about parenting, I’ve obviously > (ironically) come to the wrong place at alt.parenting.solutions

Oh, Puh-leeze.  Get over your sarcasm already.  If you wish to discuss parenting issues, then do so.  If you wish to put Steve in your killfile, then do so.  If you wish to inject your additional criticism on top of what is already in this group, then do so.  But quit whining about it already. — ~Nan~<– Remove XX to e-mail me

Response:

So, killfile him.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Yes, maybe I was being judgmental about the whole group, but unfortunately, >every time I look at a thread I think might be helpful, I notice Steve >inserting his name-calling and fallacious arguments, obscuring any valuable >information that might come out of a newsgroup like this one.  I never said >he bothered me that much.  I just don’t understand why he’s here.  I do not >agree that "coming up with something useful now and then" (by pure chance, >perhaps) is enough of a reason.  He makes it obvious that his main reason >for being here is attacking people, and much of what he says is "off the >deep end" not just "at times."  And it certainly gets him a lot of >attention–what he craves most, I’m sure, and I suppose you could say I’m no >better for giving him this attention now. >Regrettably, people who come to a newsgroup for the first time looking for a >discussion of "parenting solutions" find only Steve, Steve and more Steve >responding inappropriately to almost every topic, and when it’s not Steve, >it’s people responding to Steve.  Truly, I do feel some sympathy for him and >what must be a bitter, empty life.  Admittedly, I know nothing about his >life, except what I see here–oops, being judgmental again–but you >certainly seem to "know" something.  How would you know he has grown >children, unless you are a personal acquaintance and/or friend of his? >Maybe that’s why you seem to approve of his atrocious behavior. >Really, Nan, thanks for pointing out to me that I’m an outsider, not worthy >of people like you and Steve.  I’m really not basing my conclusion on just >one poster, just the most prolific one.  You’re absolutely right.  I have >better ways to waste my time than spending it wading through endless posts >about, involving, and in response to Steve.  If I really did want to share >with other like-minded parents issues about parenting, I’ve obviously >(ironically) come to the wrong place at alt.parenting.solutions

Response:

Subtitle:  Why are you here, Steve? First of all, he does not have children and has no clue about children. Isn’t it obvious?  Second, every time he gets in a little over his head, he starts calling people idiots and liars.  He’s really a child himself.  Isn’t that also obvious?  The question is, Steve, and this coming from someone who actually came to this newsgroup to read about "parenting solutions," why are you here?

Response:

> Subtitle:  Why are you here, Steve? > First of all, he does not have children and has no clue about children. > Isn’t it obvious?  Second, every time he gets in a little over his head, he > starts calling people idiots and liars.  He’s really a child himself. Isn’t > that also obvious?  The question is, Steve, and this coming from someone who > actually came to this newsgroup to read about "parenting solutions," why are > you here?

Being a bit judgemental about the group, aren’t you???  I have to wonder about someone that will judge an entire group based on one poster.  Oh, and Steve does have grown kids, and although he goes off the deep end at times, he can come up with something useful now and then.  I’d suggest, if he bothers you that much, you put him in your killfile, and ignore him. — ~Nan~<– Remove XX to e-mail me

Response:

Yes, maybe I was being judgmental about the whole group, but unfortunately, every time I look at a thread I think might be helpful, I notice Steve inserting his name-calling and fallacious arguments, obscuring any valuable information that might come out of a newsgroup like this one.  I never said he bothered me that much.  I just don’t understand why he’s here.  I do not agree that "coming up with something useful now and then" (by pure chance, perhaps) is enough of a reason.  He makes it obvious that his main reason for being here is attacking people, and much of what he says is "off the deep end" not just "at times."  And it certainly gets him a lot of attention–what he craves most, I’m sure, and I suppose you could say I’m no better for giving him this attention now. Regrettably, people who come to a newsgroup for the first time looking for a discussion of "parenting solutions" find only Steve, Steve and more Steve responding inappropriately to almost every topic, and when it’s not Steve, it’s people responding to Steve.  Truly, I do feel some sympathy for him and what must be a bitter, empty life.  Admittedly, I know nothing about his life, except what I see here–oops, being judgmental again–but you certainly seem to "know" something.  How would you know he has grown children, unless you are a personal acquaintance and/or friend of his? Maybe that’s why you seem to approve of his atrocious behavior. Really, Nan, thanks for pointing out to me that I’m an outsider, not worthy of people like you and Steve.  I’m really not basing my conclusion on just one poster, just the most prolific one.  You’re absolutely right.  I have better ways to waste my time than spending it wading through endless posts about, involving, and in response to Steve.  If I really did want to share with other like-minded parents issues about parenting, I’ve obviously (ironically) come to the wrong place at alt.parenting.solutions – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

> really…someone must have turned over a few rocks.

Not ME this time.  *I* didn’t mention her site!! — Kitten = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = I’m a bitch, I’m a lover; I’m a child, I’m a mother I’m a sinner, I’m a saint; I do not feel ashamed I’m your hell, I’m you dream; I’m nothing in between You know you wouldn’t want it any other way                                                                       – – - Meredith Brooks

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> oh no it’s French Papa again :-/ >> > I know people who still use safety harnesses to keep their 6 yo and 8yo >> children >> > close at the mall. >> > Do you think it is a good parenting solution ? >> > Do you also use safety harnesses on your children ? >Better than reading Daedra > Ah, gee, I kinda think Dae is more fun.

<gag> — Kitten = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = I’m a bitch, I’m a lover; I’m a child, I’m a mother I’m a sinner, I’m a saint; I do not feel ashamed I’m your hell, I’m you dream; I’m nothing in between You know you wouldn’t want it any other way                                                                       – – - Meredith Brooks

Response:

really…someone must have turned over a few rocks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> oh no it’s French Papa again :-/ > > I know people who still use safety harnesses to keep their 6 yo and 8yo > children > > close at the mall. > > Do you think it is a good parenting solution ? > > Do you also use safety harnesses on your children ? > Better than reading Daedra > — > Kitten > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > I’m a bitch, I’m a lover; I’m a child, I’m a mother > I’m a sinner, I’m a saint; I do not feel ashamed > I’m your hell, I’m you dream; I’m nothing in between > You know you wouldn’t want it any other way >                                                                       – > – - Meredith Brooks

Response:

I *thought* the harness subject seemed familiar!  Very weird….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yea…and he seems to have this weird fixation with older and pre-teen kids > in harnesses, restraints, and bibs. He’s been asking about it in various > parenting groups for months. > > oh no it’s French Papa again :-/ > Is this the "bib" guy? > > > I know people who still use safety harnesses to keep their 6 yo and > 8yo > > children > > > close at the mall. > > > Do you think it is a good parenting solution ? > > > Do you also use safety harnesses on your children ?

Response:

> oh no it’s French Papa again :-/ > I know people who still use safety harnesses to keep their 6 yo and 8yo > children > close at the mall. > Do you think it is a good parenting solution ? > Do you also use safety harnesses on your children ?

Better than reading Daedra — Kitten = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = I’m a bitch, I’m a lover; I’m a child, I’m a mother I’m a sinner, I’m a saint; I do not feel ashamed I’m your hell, I’m you dream; I’m nothing in between You know you wouldn’t want it any other way                                                                       – – - Meredith Brooks

Response:

>I know people who still use safety harnesses to keep their 6 yo and 8yo >children >close at the mall. >Do you think it is a good parenting solution ? >Do you also use safety harnesses on your children ?

I only used mine in very crowded, lots of temptations in different directions, like at the state fair. At the mall it was good to have it to be able to say "if you don’t hold my hand, or Daddy’s, you will have to wear this." It usually got them to calm down and stay close. By 6 and 8 years of age most children should know how to behave in public and a safety harness would just be embarassing. Liz

Response:

oh no it’s French Papa again :-/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know people who still use safety harnesses to keep their 6 yo and 8yo children > close at the mall. > Do you think it is a good parenting solution ? > Do you also use safety harnesses on your children ?

Response:

> oh no it’s French Papa again :-/

Is this the "bib" guy? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know people who still use safety harnesses to keep their 6 yo and 8yo > children > close at the mall. > Do you think it is a good parenting solution ? > Do you also use safety harnesses on your children ?

Response:

Yea…and he seems to have this weird fixation with older and pre-teen kids in harnesses, restraints, and bibs. He’s been asking about it in various parenting groups for months.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> oh no it’s French Papa again :-/ > Is this the "bib" guy? > > I know people who still use safety harnesses to keep their 6 yo and 8yo > children > > close at the mall. > > Do you think it is a good parenting solution ? > > Do you also use safety harnesses on your children ?

Response:

I know people who still use safety harnesses to keep their 6 yo and 8yo children close at the mall. Do you think it is a good parenting solution ? Do you also use safety harnesses on your children ?

Response:

> I know people who still use safety harnesses to keep their 6 yo and 8yo children > close at the mall. > Do you think it is a good parenting solution ? > Do you also use safety harnesses on your children ?

I never used a safety harness with YS.  By the time OS and YD were in the picture, it wasn’t a concern.  That being said, I *do* know a 5yo that I’m not sure I would want to take to the mall with me.  He’s just too dang quick. — Kitten = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = I’m a bitch, I’m a lover; I’m a child, I’m a mother I’m a sinner, I’m a saint; I do not feel ashamed I’m your hell, I’m you dream; I’m nothing in between You know you wouldn’t want it any other way                                                                       – – - Meredith Brooks

Response:

>NO, only that your service is supernews.  Mine says central fl. as that is >part of the name of my service.  When I had earthlink I don’t think it >mentioned my location quite so specifically.

Aahh, I have no idea what supernews is.  Lol.  We have a cable modem and go thru our cable company (obviously).  I’m glad it doesn’t outright say but then I guess it’s not too hard to find out. >Where are those gurus, anyway?  Do I have to go to my best source of info? >Where is that husband, anyway?  I had him kicking around here somewhere last >I knew…. >-Aula

Lol.  It’s true, my husband could probably work it out too but he’s deployed right now.  Interesting. Thanks, Sophie

Response:

> > If you want to attempt to determine something about the source of a > posting, start here: > :NNTP-Posting-Host: 142.166.90.157 > … which is an IP address belonging to an ISP in New Brunswick, Canada. > How do you learn where the ISP is assigned? > -Aula

http://www.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >How do you learn where the ISP is assigned? > >-Aula > I’d be interested to know that too, just out of curiosity.  Aula I can > tell > where you’re from cos when I open your post it says Organization – Central > Florida. > Can you tell on mine?  Lol. > NO, only that your service is supernews.  Mine says central fl. as that is > part of the name of my service.  When I had earthlink I don’t think it > mentioned my location quite so specifically. > Where are those gurus, anyway?  Do I have to go to my best source of info? > Where is that husband, anyway?  I had him kicking around here somewhere last > I knew…. > -Aula

Well, not all is always as it seems. For example, you can’t tell by looking where it is I live.

Response:

> If you want to attempt to determine something about the source of a > posting, start here: > :NNTP-Posting-Host: 142.166.90.157 > … which is an IP address belonging to an ISP in New Brunswick, Canada.

How do you learn where the ISP is assigned? -Aula

Response:

>How do you learn where the ISP is assigned? >-Aula

I’d be interested to know that too, just out of curiosity.  Aula I can tell where you’re from cos when I open your post it says Organization – Central Florida. Can you tell on mine?  Lol. Later, Sophie

Response:

> >How do you learn where the ISP is assigned? >-Aula > I’d be interested to know that too, just out of curiosity.  Aula I can tell > where you’re from cos when I open your post it says Organization – Central > Florida. > Can you tell on mine?  Lol.

NO, only that your service is supernews.  Mine says central fl. as that is part of the name of my service.  When I had earthlink I don’t think it mentioned my location quite so specifically. Where are those gurus, anyway?  Do I have to go to my best source of info? Where is that husband, anyway?  I had him kicking around here somewhere last I knew…. -Aula

Response:

Thank you for those who provided decent responses.  For those others, if you are going to be members of a parenting solutions group, you are not very inviting.  Despite what someone wrote, I did not write a similar post earlier.  Has it ever entered your mind that parents visit this site, have a situation to discuss, and enter the search word ‘parenting’… and this forum is found in the search results.  If a parent posts a question, and being new to the group, asks a similar question that someone earlier may have posted, why would you assume it just must be that same person writing back to wreak havoc on your site?  How would I have known if someone else had written about the same thing, and if they did, wouldn’t it only make sense that no problem is exclusive?  I have no idea what you mean, that I’m a ‘troll’.  All I wanted were some constructive ideas for assistance. If you are truly interested in building a parenting forum claiming to have ’solutions’, please don’t scare new people away.  I can hardly believe I’m having to defend myself in this forum, of all forums. MOST IMPORTANTLY, if parents come to you looking for help, and you assume they’re not telling the truth right from the start, do you really think you’re providing a service? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am hoping that someone can provide me with some information about > what my daughter is going through now.  She is seven years old, and > this summer (she was six then) told my wife and me that she, along with > 3 other kids in our building (ages 6, 7 and looked at and touched > each other’s private areas.  She kept this in for many months, and > finally cried, saying that she thought she had sex.  We assured her > that what she did wasn’t sex.  We had several conversations with her to > be certain that what she described is all that happened.  We have > approached it so many ways, we are confident that nothing else > happened, and with no one else. > However, for the last month or so, she seems so obsessed with what > happened.  At first it was like she was unable to forgive herself.  We > tried many things.  We explained that we forgive her; we told her that, > although she must never do anything like it again, but that what she > did was out of curiosity (because she told us that she was curious to > see how boys were made)  I gave her a crucifix to wear, hoping a symbol > of forgiveness would help.  It didn’t.  We asked if it would her her if > we approaced the oldest of the other kids in her presence to tell her > that we won’t tolerate future similar activity.  She said it would help > her, so my wife arrange for the girl to visit, and they talked.  This > didn’t seem to help much. > It is now getting to the point that everything she talks about, seems > to involve sex (at least what she thinks she knows about it).  If she > sees a carrot, she says it reminds her of a penis; lightbulbs remind > her of breasts, etc… Sometimes she cries because she says she just > can’t seem to stop thinking about it.  We’ve told her that it would be > better to let herself think about because if we know we can’t think > about something we are bound to think about it more. > Between me, my wife, and my wife’s sister, we have had lots of > opportunities to talk with my daughter.  We asked all kinds of > questions so many ways, that we are certain that it was just curiosity > between the kids.  We don’t know where to draw the line.  When we ask > her not to talk about sexual objects (or how she perceives something to > be a sexual object) she says she feels like she must tell us each > time.  It has become that almost all time spent with her is on this > subject.  We don’t know what to do.  Where do we draw the line?  What > could we say or do to make her realize that what she did isn’t the end > of the world?  I don’t want to go on for the next year talking about > it.  It’s the same thing day after day.  Any suggestions?

Response:

> You guys! This is Ben Malone/Joe Alden, the troll!!! > Hello in Florida, Ben! > Look at the headers: > nntp1-sf.pbi.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!63.208.208.143! > feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com! > news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu! > nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!

I don’t know what you think you’re seeing, but all that Path: header shows is who Deja peers with.  Syracuse moves more news than almost any other server globally, and appears in a whole lot of headers. If you want to attempt to determine something about the source of a posting, start here: :NNTP-Posting-Host: 142.166.90.157 … which is an IP address belonging to an ISP in New Brunswick, Canada. Troll he may be, but from Florida he is likely not. —

Response:

> Young girls of that age don’t get ideas like that about sex & everything she > see’s reminds her of a sexual body part without some kind of adult input.

They don’t!  Small children, girls especially just don’t react that way. Grown men do however. Sexually abused little girls frequently have problems with incontinence, and other symptoms. Sexual symbolism is NOT one of the signs in girls. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sure kids are curious & will at some stage MAYBE explore themselves with > another kid of the same age. But imo the things you describe cannot come > soley from the innocent minds of 6 7 & 8 year olds without some  how seeing > or hearing it from another source.first. Are you sure she is not watching > adult movies perhaps at a friends house, or seen some books that have been > left lying around. Or even maybe (i risk being flamed here) imo, you are > just making it up for some sick reason. > Tracy > Mum to Lydia, 9 & Michael, 3. > Think you can, think you can’t, > either way your right. > I am hoping that someone can provide me with some information about > what my daughter is going through now.  She is seven years old, and > this summer (she was six then) told my wife and me that she, along with > 3 other kids in our building (ages 6, 7 and looked at and touched > each other’s private areas.  She kept this in for many months, and > finally cried, saying that she thought she had sex.  We assured her > that what she did wasn’t sex.  We had several conversations with her to > be certain that what she described is all that happened.  We have > approached it so many ways, we are confident that nothing else > happened, and with no one else. > However, for the last month or so, she seems so obsessed with what > happened.  At first it was like she was unable to forgive herself.  We > tried many things.  We explained that we forgive her; we told her that, > although she must never do anything like it again, but that what she > did was out of curiosity (because she told us that she was curious to > see how boys were made)  I gave her a crucifix to wear, hoping a symbol > of forgiveness would help.  It didn’t.  We asked if it would her her if > we approaced the oldest of the other kids in her presence to tell her > that we won’t tolerate future similar activity.  She said it would help > her, so my wife arrange for the girl to visit, and they talked.  This > didn’t seem to help much. > It is now getting to the point that everything she talks about, seems > to involve sex (at least what she thinks she knows about it).  If she > sees a carrot, she says it reminds her of a penis; lightbulbs remind > her of breasts, etc… Sometimes she cries because she says she just > can’t seem to stop thinking about it.  We’ve told her that it would be > better to let herself think about because if we know we can’t think > about something we are bound to think about it more. > Between me, my wife, and my wife’s sister, we have had lots of > opportunities to talk with my daughter.  We asked all kinds of > questions so many ways, that we are certain that it was just curiosity > between the kids.  We don’t know where to draw the line.  When we ask > her not to talk about sexual objects (or how she perceives something to > be a sexual object) she says she feels like she must tell us each > time.  It has become that almost all time spent with her is on this > subject.  We don’t know what to do.  Where do we draw the line?  What > could we say or do to make her realize that what she did isn’t the end > of the world?  I don’t want to go on for the next year talking about > it.  It’s the same thing day after day.  Any suggestions?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Elaine doesn’t have kids, so of course she thinks this is about the adult. >> (Actually, most of her posts are really about herself – you have OCD in >> your family, right, Elaine?) >> At any rate, this is one of the more wacked-out posts that our resident >> childless clueless troll contributes regularly.   You’re free to ignore it. >> Banty >she is right on this one, I think.  the OP sounds like a troll to me — >with his own sexual obsessions to share with us > Hard to tell who’s the troll.  It did occur to me – but, *where* would > someone with a real concern like this go?

A mental health professional.

Response:

>> Elaine doesn’t have kids, so of course she thinks this is about the adult. > (Actually, most of her posts are really about herself – you have OCD in > your family, right, Elaine?) > At any rate, this is one of the more wacked-out posts that our resident > childless clueless troll contributes regularly.   You’re free to ignore it. > Banty >she is right on this one, I think.  the OP sounds like a troll to me — >with his own sexual obsessions to share with us

Hard to tell who’s the troll.  It did occur to me – but, *where* would someone with a real concern like this go? Banty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Ok, I’m not sure if this is your daughter or yourself you’re talking about. > >I strongly suspect it’s you. > >There’s a good possibility that you have obsessive/compulsive disorder. > >This sort of sexual obsession sort of just plain doesn’t happen in 7yr. > >olds, especially girls. > >However, in any event, ocd is heritable, and if she indeed is as precocious > >as you say, she inherited her condition from you. > >YOU need to see a good psychiatrist. One who can prescribe some medications. > >If your child is actually behaving as you claim, take her with you. > >> I am hoping that someone can provide me with some information about > >> what my daughter is going through now.  She is seven years old, and > >> this summer (she was six then) told my wife and me that she, along with > >> 3 other kids in our building (ages 6, 7 and looked at and touched > >> each other’s private areas.  She kept this in for many months, and > >> finally cried, saying that she thought she had sex.  We assured her > >> that what she did wasn’t sex.  We had several conversations with her to > >> be certain that what she described is all that happened.  We have > >> approached it so many ways, we are confident that nothing else > >> happened, and with no one else. > >> However, for the last month or so, she seems so obsessed with what > >> happened.  At first it was like she was unable to forgive herself.  We > >> tried many things.  We explained that we forgive her; we told her that, > >> although she must never do anything like it again, but that what she > >> did was out of curiosity (because she told us that she was curious to > >> see how boys were made)  I gave her a crucifix to wear, hoping a symbol > >> of forgiveness would help.  It didn’t.  We asked if it would her her if > >> we approaced the oldest of the other kids in her presence to tell her > >> that we won’t tolerate future similar activity.  She said it would help > >> her, so my wife arrange for the girl to visit, and they talked.  This > >> didn’t seem to help much. > >> It is now getting to the point that everything she talks about, seems > >> to involve sex (at least what she thinks she knows about it).  If she > >> sees a carrot, she says it reminds her of a penis; lightbulbs remind > >> her of breasts, etc… Sometimes she cries because she says she just > >> can’t seem to stop thinking about it.  We’ve told her that it would be > >> better to let herself think about because if we know we can’t think > >> about something we are bound to think about it more. > >> Between me, my wife, and my wife’s sister, we have had lots of > >> opportunities to talk with my daughter.  We asked all kinds of > >> questions so many ways, that we are certain that it was just curiosity > >> between the kids.  We don’t know where to draw the line.  When we ask > >> her not to talk about sexual objects (or how she perceives something to > >> be a sexual object) she says she feels like she must tell us each > >> time.  It has become that almost all time spent with her is on this > >> subject.  We don’t know what to do.  Where do we draw the line?  What > >> could we say or do to make her realize that what she did isn’t the end > >> of the world?  I don’t want to go on for the next year talking about > >> it.  It’s the same thing day after day.  Any suggestions?

Response:

> Elaine doesn’t have kids, so of course she thinks this is about the adult. > (Actually, most of her posts are really about herself – you have OCD in > your family, right, Elaine?) > At any rate, this is one of the more wacked-out posts that our resident > childless clueless troll contributes regularly.   You’re free to ignore it. > Banty

she is right on this one, I think.  the OP sounds like a troll to me — with his own sexual obsessions to share with us – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Ok, I’m not sure if this is your daughter or yourself you’re talking about. >I strongly suspect it’s you. >There’s a good possibility that you have obsessive/compulsive disorder. >This sort of sexual obsession sort of just plain doesn’t happen in 7yr. >olds, especially girls. >However, in any event, ocd is heritable, and if she indeed is as precocious >as you say, she inherited her condition from you. >YOU need to see a good psychiatrist. One who can prescribe some medications. >If your child is actually behaving as you claim, take her with you. >> I am hoping that someone can provide me with some information about >> what my daughter is going through now.  She is seven years old, and >> this summer (she was six then) told my wife and me that she, along with >> 3 other kids in our building (ages 6, 7 and looked at and touched >> each other’s private areas.  She kept this in for many months, and >> finally cried, saying that she thought she had sex.  We assured her >> that what she did wasn’t sex.  We had several conversations with her to >> be certain that what she described is all that happened.  We have >> approached it so many ways, we are confident that nothing else >> happened, and with no one else. >> However, for the last month or so, she seems so obsessed with what >> happened.  At first it was like she was unable to forgive herself.  We >> tried many things.  We explained that we forgive her; we told her that, >> although she must never do anything like it again, but that what she >> did was out of curiosity (because she told us that she was curious to >> see how boys were made)  I gave her a crucifix to wear, hoping a symbol >> of forgiveness would help.  It didn’t.  We asked if it would her her if >> we approaced the oldest of the other kids in her presence to tell her >> that we won’t tolerate future similar activity.  She said it would help >> her, so my wife arrange for the girl to visit, and they talked.  This >> didn’t seem to help much. >> It is now getting to the point that everything she talks about, seems >> to involve sex (at least what she thinks she knows about it).  If she >> sees a carrot, she says it reminds her of a penis; lightbulbs remind >> her of breasts, etc… Sometimes she cries because she says she just >> can’t seem to stop thinking about it.  We’ve told her that it would be >> better to let herself think about because if we know we can’t think >> about something we are bound to think about it more. >> Between me, my wife, and my wife’s sister, we have had lots of >> opportunities to talk with my daughter.  We asked all kinds of >> questions so many ways, that we are certain that it was just curiosity >> between the kids.  We don’t know where to draw the line.  When we ask >> her not to talk about sexual objects (or how she perceives something to >> be a sexual object) she says she feels like she must tell us each >> time.  It has become that almost all time spent with her is on this >> subject.  We don’t know what to do.  Where do we draw the line?  What >> could we say or do to make her realize that what she did isn’t the end >> of the world?  I don’t want to go on for the next year talking about >> it.  It’s the same thing day after day.  Any suggestions?

Response:

> Young girls of that age don’t get ideas like that about sex & everything she > see’s reminds her of a sexual body part without some kind of adult input. > Sure kids are curious & will at some stage MAYBE explore themselves with > another kid of the same age. But imo the things you describe cannot come > soley from the innocent minds of 6 7 & 8 year olds without some  how seeing > or hearing it from another source.first. Are you sure she is not watching > adult movies perhaps at a friends house, or seen some books that have been > left lying around. Or even maybe (i risk being flamed here) imo, you are > just making it up for some sick reason.

I would bet that the OP is the one with the problem — maybe even visiting from one of the perve groups because he wants to talk about his obsession with Moms and Dads — and maybe gets a thrill from shocking them.   Kids don’t have this reaction from the perfectly normal exploration that kids this age do — they have this reaction when they are molested by adults.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Tracy > Mum to Lydia, 9 & Michael, 3. > Think you can, think you can’t, > either way your right. > I am hoping that someone can provide me with some information about > what my daughter is going through now.  She is seven years old, and > this summer (she was six then) told my wife and me that she, along with > 3 other kids in our building (ages 6, 7 and looked at and touched > each other’s private areas.  She kept this in for many months, and > finally cried, saying that she thought she had sex.  We assured her > that what she did wasn’t sex.  We had several conversations with her to > be certain that what she described is all that happened.  We have > approached it so many ways, we are confident that nothing else > happened, and with no one else. > However, for the last month or so, she seems so obsessed with what > happened.  At first it was like she was unable to forgive herself.  We > tried many things.  We explained that we forgive her; we told her that, > although she must never do anything like it again, but that what she > did was out of curiosity (because she told us that she was curious to > see how boys were made)  I gave her a crucifix to wear, hoping a symbol > of forgiveness would help.  It didn’t.  We asked if it would her her if > we approaced the oldest of the other kids in her presence to tell her > that we won’t tolerate future similar activity.  She said it would help > her, so my wife arrange for the girl to visit, and they talked.  This > didn’t seem to help much. > It is now getting to the point that everything she talks about, seems > to involve sex (at least what she thinks she knows about it).  If she > sees a carrot, she says it reminds her of a penis; lightbulbs remind > her of breasts, etc… Sometimes she cries because she says she just > can’t seem to stop thinking about it.  We’ve told her that it would be > better to let herself think about because if we know we can’t think > about something we are bound to think about it more. > Between me, my wife, and my wife’s sister, we have had lots of > opportunities to talk with my daughter.  We asked all kinds of > questions so many ways, that we are certain that it was just curiosity > between the kids.  We don’t know where to draw the line.  When we ask > her not to talk about sexual objects (or how she perceives something to > be a sexual object) she says she feels like she must tell us each > time.  It has become that almost all time spent with her is on this > subject.  We don’t know what to do.  Where do we draw the line?  What > could we say or do to make her realize that what she did isn’t the end > of the world?  I don’t want to go on for the next year talking about > it.  It’s the same thing day after day.  Any suggestions?

Response:

> I came to this post looking for assistance.  I can’t believe the > replies!  That’s what I get for looking to the internet for help. > First of all, it’s not me as someone in this post is assuming, nor am I > making it up.  What would making up this kind of stuff do for me?  I > think I’ll look for help for her in the ‘real world’.

Go on and shove off, Ben Malone/Joe Alden. You were here under that addy with another weird story LAST month!! And you made the same complaint then as now, that nobody takes you seriously. If you’re daughter is really sexually precocious then get friendly about it with her and find out who got her interested. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ok, I’m not sure if this is your daughter or yourself you’re talking > about. > I strongly suspect it’s you. > There’s a good possibility that you have obsessive/compulsive > disorder. > This sort of sexual obsession sort of just plain doesn’t happen in > 7yr. > olds, especially girls. > However, in any event, ocd is heritable, and if she indeed is as > precocious > as you say, she inherited her condition from you. > YOU need to see a good psychiatrist. One who can prescribe some > medications. > If your child is actually behaving as you claim, take her with you. > > I am hoping that someone can provide me with some information about > > what my daughter is going through now.  She is seven years old, and > > this summer (she was six then) told my wife and me that she, along > with > > 3 other kids in our building (ages 6, 7 and looked at and touched > > each other’s private areas.  She kept this in for many months, and > > finally cried, saying that she thought she had sex.  We assured her > > that what she did wasn’t sex.  We had several conversations with > her to > > be certain that what she described is all that happened.  We have > > approached it so many ways, we are confident that nothing else > > happened, and with no one else. > > However, for the last month or so, she seems so obsessed with what > > happened.  At first it was like she was unable to forgive herself. > We > > tried many things.  We explained that we forgive her; we told her > that, > > although she must never do anything like it again, but that what she > > did was out of curiosity (because she told us that she was curious > to > > see how boys were made)  I gave her a crucifix to wear, hoping a > symbol > > of forgiveness would help.  It didn’t.  We asked if it would her > her if > > we approaced the oldest of the other kids in her presence to tell > her > > that we won’t tolerate future similar activity.  She said it would > help > > her, so my wife arrange for the girl to visit, and they talked. > This > > didn’t seem to help much. > > It is now getting to the point that everything she talks about, > seems > > to involve sex (at least what she thinks she knows about it).  If > she > > sees a carrot, she says it reminds her of a penis; lightbulbs remind > > her of breasts, etc… Sometimes she cries because she says she just > > can’t seem to stop thinking about it.  We’ve told her that it would > be > > better to let herself think about because if we know we can’t think > > about something we are bound to think about it more. > > Between me, my wife, and my wife’s sister, we have had lots of > > opportunities to talk with my daughter.  We asked all kinds of > > questions so many ways, that we are certain that it was just > curiosity > > between the kids.  We don’t know where to draw the line.  When we > ask > > her not to talk about sexual objects (or how she perceives > something to > > be a sexual object) she says she feels like she must tell us each > > time.  It has become that almost all time spent with her is on this > > subject.  We don’t know what to do.  Where do we draw the line? > What > > could we say or do to make her realize that what she did isn’t the > end > > of the world?  I don’t want to go on for the next year talking about > > it.  It’s the same thing day after day.  Any suggestions?

Response:

> Any suggestions?

Yes.  Drop your Deja account and be never heard from again, Troll. All you Deja people are losers anyway.

Response:

In that case, start with a real world counselor.  You’re failing yourself if you do anything otherwise. P.S.  I’d STILL drop the Deja account and be never heard from again, k?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I came to this post looking for assistance.  I can’t believe the > replies!  That’s what I get for looking to the internet for help. > First of all, it’s not me as someone in this post is assuming, nor am I > making it up.  What would making up this kind of stuff do for me?  I > think I’ll look for help for her in the ‘real world’.

Response:

to Elaine, she is a troll of the worst kind that seeks to hurt > others with her babble. You don’t want to see what Steve would say on this > subject either.

Although I’ve had many disagreements with EG in the past, I do not really consider her to be a Troll, but rather a truly fucked up individual who has yet to resolve serious life issues for him or herself, especially as relating to a dominant male figure in his or her past, perhaps a father or the lack thereof. Steve?  Well, he’s just a different story.  And I’ve really yet to have had a problem with him.  He’s just as comical as they come. Rock on.

Response:

That is actually the best thing you can do Brian. We give good advice here, but we are also jaded from being trolled by those seeking attention in the most unusual way. You would not believe some of the stories we see in here. Don’t listen to Elaine, she is a troll of the worst kind that seeks to hurt others with her babble. You don’t want to see what Steve would say on this subject either. I hope your daughter isn’t permanently traumatized by this incident. Have you talked to the other parents and are you comfortable with talking about this with them? I did some similar types of "playing doctor" when I was around 8 or 9 yrs. old. I didn’t have any lasting impressions or change in behaviour. I think to seek professional advice is much more constructive than asking on usenet, that is full of some pretty weird characters. Best of luck with helping your daughter feel better. Deanna

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I came to this post looking for assistance.  I can’t believe the > replies!  That’s what I get for looking to the internet for help. > First of all, it’s not me as someone in this post is assuming, nor am I > making it up.  What would making up this kind of stuff do for me?  I > think I’ll look for help for her in the ‘real world’. > Ok, I’m not sure if this is your daughter or yourself you’re talking > about. > I strongly suspect it’s you. > There’s a good possibility that you have obsessive/compulsive > disorder. > This sort of sexual obsession sort of just plain doesn’t happen in > 7yr. > olds, especially girls. > However, in any event, ocd is heritable, and if she indeed is as > precocious > as you say, she inherited her condition from you. > YOU need to see a good psychiatrist. One who can prescribe some > medications. > If your child is actually behaving as you claim, take her with you. > > I am hoping that someone can provide me with some information about > > what my daughter is going through now.  She is seven years old, and > > this summer (she was six then) told my wife and me that she, along > with > > 3 other kids in our building (ages 6, 7 and looked at and touched > > each other’s private areas.  She kept this in for many months, and > > finally cried, saying that she thought she had sex.  We assured her > > that what she did wasn’t sex.  We had several conversations with > her to > > be certain that what she described is all that happened.  We have > > approached it so many ways, we are confident that nothing else > > happened, and with no one else. > > However, for the last month or so, she seems so obsessed with what > > happened.  At first it was like she was unable to forgive herself. > We > > tried many things.  We explained that we forgive her; we told her > that, > > although she must never do anything like it again, but that what she > > did was out of curiosity (because she told us that she was curious > to > > see how boys were made)  I gave her a crucifix to wear, hoping a > symbol > > of forgiveness would help.  It didn’t.  We asked if it would her > her if > > we approaced the oldest of the other kids in her presence to tell > her > > that we won’t tolerate future similar activity.  She said it would > help > > her, so my wife arrange for the girl to visit, and they talked. > This > > didn’t seem to help much. > > It is now getting to the point that everything she talks about, > seems > > to involve sex (at least what she thinks she knows about it).  If > she > > sees a carrot, she says it reminds her of a penis; lightbulbs remind > > her of breasts, etc… Sometimes she cries because she says she just > > can’t seem to stop thinking about it.  We’ve told her that it would > be > > better to let herself think about because if we know we can’t think > > about something we are bound to think about it more. > > Between me, my wife, and my wife’s sister, we have had lots of > > opportunities to talk with my daughter.  We asked all kinds of > > questions so many ways, that we are certain that it was just > curiosity > > between the kids.  We don’t know where to draw the line.  When we > ask > > her not to talk about sexual objects (or how she perceives > something to > > be a sexual object) she says she feels like she must tell us each > > time.  It has become that almost all time spent with her is on this > > subject.  We don’t know what to do.  Where do we draw the line? > What > > could we say or do to make her realize that what she did isn’t the > end > > of the world?  I don’t want to go on for the next year talking about > > it.  It’s the same thing day after day.  Any suggestions?

Response:

I came to this post looking for assistance.  I can’t believe the replies!  That’s what I get for looking to the internet for help. First of all, it’s not me as someone in this post is assuming, nor am I making it up.  What would making up this kind of stuff do for me?  I think I’ll look for help for her in the ‘real world’. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ok, I’m not sure if this is your daughter or yourself you’re talking about. > I strongly suspect it’s you. > There’s a good possibility that you have obsessive/compulsive disorder. > This sort of sexual obsession sort of just plain doesn’t happen in 7yr. > olds, especially girls. > However, in any event, ocd is heritable, and if she indeed is as precocious > as you say, she inherited her condition from you. > YOU need to see a good psychiatrist. One who can prescribe some medications. > If your child is actually behaving as you claim, take her with you. > I am hoping that someone can provide me with some information about > what my daughter is going through now.  She is seven years old, and > this summer (she was six then) told my wife and me that she, along with > 3 other kids in our building (ages 6, 7 and looked at and touched > each other’s private areas.  She kept this in for many months, and > finally cried, saying that she thought she had sex.  We assured her > that what she did wasn’t sex.  We had several conversations with her to > be certain that what she described is all that happened.  We have > approached it so many ways, we are confident that nothing else > happened, and with no one else. > However, for the last month or so, she seems so obsessed with what > happened.  At first it was like she was unable to forgive herself. We > tried many things.  We explained that we forgive her; we told her that, > although she must never do anything like it again, but that what she > did was out of curiosity (because she told us that she was curious to > see how boys were made)  I gave her a crucifix to wear, hoping a symbol > of forgiveness would help.  It didn’t.  We asked if it would her her if > we approaced the oldest of the other kids in her presence to tell her > that we won’t tolerate future similar activity.  She said it would help > her, so my wife arrange for the girl to visit, and they talked. This > didn’t seem to help much. > It is now getting to the point that everything she talks about, seems > to involve sex (at least what she thinks she knows about it).  If she > sees a carrot, she says it reminds her of a penis; lightbulbs remind > her of breasts, etc… Sometimes she cries because she says she just > can’t seem to stop thinking about it.  We’ve told her that it would be > better to let herself think about because if we know we can’t think > about something we are bound to think about it more. > Between me, my wife, and my wife’s sister, we have had lots of > opportunities to talk with my daughter.  We asked all kinds of > questions so many ways, that we are certain that it was just curiosity > between the kids.  We don’t know where to draw the line.  When we ask > her not to talk about sexual objects (or how she perceives something to > be a sexual object) she says she feels like she must tell us each > time.  It has become that almost all time spent with her is on this > subject.  We don’t know what to do.  Where do we draw the line? What > could we say or do to make her realize that what she did isn’t the end > of the world?  I don’t want to go on for the next year talking about > it.  It’s the same thing day after day.  Any suggestions?

Response:

It is hard to know if some of these questions are real or not. We get too many trolls. If you have some real concern about your daughter’s mental state and her possible trauma from an incident like this one, then take her to a mental health professional. Some kids experiment and it doesn’t have any sort of negative effect on them. Some children may experience more anxiety about the activity and need counseling. Deanna

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am hoping that someone can provide me with some information about > what my daughter is going through now.  She is seven years old, and > this summer (she was six then) told my wife and me that she, along with > 3 other kids in our building (ages 6, 7 and looked at and touched > each other’s private areas.  She kept this in for many months, and > finally cried, saying that she thought she had sex.  We assured her > that what she did wasn’t sex.  We had several conversations with her to > be certain that what she described is all that happened.  We have > approached it so many ways, we are confident that nothing else > happened, and with no one else. > However, for the last month or so, she seems so obsessed with what > happened.  At first it was like she was unable to forgive herself.  We > tried many things.  We explained that we forgive her; we told her that, > although she must never do anything like it again, but that what she > did was out of curiosity (because she told us that she was curious to > see how boys were made)  I gave her a crucifix to wear, hoping a symbol > of forgiveness would help.  It didn’t.  We asked if it would her her if > we approaced the oldest of the other kids in her presence to tell her > that we won’t tolerate future similar activity.  She said it would help > her, so my wife arrange for the girl to visit, and they talked.  This > didn’t seem to help much. > It is now getting to the point that everything she talks about, seems > to involve sex (at least what she thinks she knows about it).  If she > sees a carrot, she says it reminds her of a penis; lightbulbs remind > her of breasts, etc… Sometimes she cries because she says she just > can’t seem to stop thinking about it.  We’ve told her that it would be > better to let herself think about because if we know we can’t think > about something we are bound to think about it more. > Between me, my wife, and my wife’s sister, we have had lots of > opportunities to talk with my daughter.  We asked all kinds of > questions so many ways, that we are certain that it was just curiosity > between the kids.  We don’t know where to draw the line.  When we ask > her not to talk about sexual objects (or how she perceives something to > be a sexual object) she says she feels like she must tell us each > time.  It has become that almost all time spent with her is on this > subject.  We don’t know what to do.  Where do we draw the line?  What > could we say or do to make her realize that what she did isn’t the end > of the world?  I don’t want to go on for the next year talking about > it.  It’s the same thing day after day.  Any suggestions?

Response:

Elaine doesn’t have kids, so of course she thinks this is about the adult. (Actually, most of her posts are really about herself – you have OCD in your family, right, Elaine?) At any rate, this is one of the more wacked-out posts that our resident childless clueless troll contributes regularly.   You’re free to ignore it. Banty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Ok, I’m not sure if this is your daughter or yourself you’re talking about. >I strongly suspect it’s you. >There’s a good possibility that you have obsessive/compulsive disorder. >This sort of sexual obsession sort of just plain doesn’t happen in 7yr. >olds, especially girls. >However, in any event, ocd is heritable, and if she indeed is as precocious >as you say, she inherited her condition from you. >YOU need to see a good psychiatrist. One who can prescribe some medications. >If your child is actually behaving as you claim, take her with you. > I am hoping that someone can provide me with some information about > what my daughter is going through now.  She is seven years old, and > this summer (she was six then) told my wife and me that she, along with > 3 other kids in our building (ages 6, 7 and looked at and touched > each other’s private areas.  She kept this in for many months, and > finally cried, saying that she thought she had sex.  We assured her > that what she did wasn’t sex.  We had several conversations with her to > be certain that what she described is all that happened.  We have > approached it so many ways, we are confident that nothing else > happened, and with no one else. > However, for the last month or so, she seems so obsessed with what > happened.  At first it was like she was unable to forgive herself.  We > tried many things.  We explained that we forgive her; we told her that, > although she must never do anything like it again, but that what she > did was out of curiosity (because she told us that she was curious to > see how boys were made)  I gave her a crucifix to wear, hoping a symbol > of forgiveness would help.  It didn’t.  We asked if it would her her if > we approaced the oldest of the other kids in her presence to tell her > that we won’t tolerate future similar activity.  She said it would help > her, so my wife arrange for the girl to visit, and they talked.  This > didn’t seem to help much. > It is now getting to the point that everything she talks about, seems > to involve sex (at least what she thinks she knows about it).  If she > sees a carrot, she says it reminds her of a penis; lightbulbs remind > her of breasts, etc… Sometimes she cries because she says she just > can’t seem to stop thinking about it.  We’ve told her that it would be > better to let herself think about because if we know we can’t think > about something we are bound to think about it more. > Between me, my wife, and my wife’s sister, we have had lots of > opportunities to talk with my daughter.  We asked all kinds of > questions so many ways, that we are certain that it was just curiosity > between the kids.  We don’t know where to draw the line.  When we ask > her not to talk about sexual objects (or how she perceives something to > be a sexual object) she says she feels like she must tell us each > time.  It has become that almost all time spent with her is on this > subject.  We don’t know what to do.  Where do we draw the line?  What > could we say or do to make her realize that what she did isn’t the end > of the world?  I don’t want to go on for the next year talking about > it.  It’s the same thing day after day.  Any suggestions?

Response:

You guys! This is Ben Malone/Joe Alden, the troll!!! Hello in Florida, Ben! Look at the headers: — nntp1-sf.pbi.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!63.208.208.143! feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com! news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu! nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com! — Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am hoping that someone can provide me with some information about > what my daughter is going through now.  She is seven years old, and > this summer (she was six then) told my wife and me that she, along with > 3 other kids in our building (ages 6, 7 and looked at and touched > each other’s private areas.  She kept this in for many months, and > finally cried, saying that she thought she had sex.  We assured her > that what she did wasn’t sex.  We had several conversations with her to > be certain that what she described is all that happened.  We have > approached it so many ways, we are confident that nothing else > happened, and with no one else. > However, for the last month or so, she seems so obsessed with what > happened.  At first it was like she was unable to forgive herself.  We > tried many things.  We explained that we forgive her; we told her that, > although she must never do anything like it again, but that what she > did was out of curiosity (because she told us that she was curious to > see how boys were made)  I gave her a crucifix to wear, hoping a symbol > of forgiveness would help.  It didn’t.  We asked if it would her her if > we approaced the oldest of the other kids in her presence to tell her > that we won’t tolerate future similar activity.  She said it would help > her, so my wife arrange for the girl to visit, and they talked.  This > didn’t seem to help much. > It is now getting to the point that everything she talks about, seems > to involve sex (at least what she thinks she knows about it).  If she > sees a carrot, she says it reminds her of a penis; lightbulbs remind > her of breasts, etc… Sometimes she cries because she says she just > can’t seem to stop thinking about it.  We’ve told her that it would be > better to let herself think about because if we know we can’t think > about something we are bound to think about it more. > Between me, my wife, and my wife’s sister, we have had lots of > opportunities to talk with my daughter.  We asked all kinds of > questions so many ways, that we are certain that it was just curiosity > between the kids.  We don’t know where to draw the line.  When we ask > her not to talk about sexual objects (or how she perceives something to > be a sexual object) she says she feels like she must tell us each > time.  It has become that almost all time spent with her is on this > subject.  We don’t know what to do.  Where do we draw the line?  What > could we say or do to make her realize that what she did isn’t the end > of the world?  I don’t want to go on for the next year talking about > it.  It’s the same thing day after day.  Any suggestions?

Response:

Young girls of that age don’t get ideas like that about sex & everything she see’s reminds her of a sexual body part without some kind of adult input. Sure kids are curious & will at some stage MAYBE explore themselves with another kid of the same age. But imo the things you describe cannot come soley from the innocent minds of 6 7 & 8 year olds without some  how seeing or hearing it from another source.first. Are you sure she is not watching adult movies perhaps at a friends house, or seen some books that have been left lying around. Or even maybe (i risk being flamed here) imo, you are just making it up for some sick reason. — Tracy Mum to Lydia, 9 & Michael, 3. Think you can, think you can’t, either way your right.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am hoping that someone can provide me with some information about > what my daughter is going through now.  She is seven years old, and > this summer (she was six then) told my wife and me that she, along with > 3 other kids in our building (ages 6, 7 and looked at and touched > each other’s private areas.  She kept this in for many months, and > finally cried, saying that she thought she had sex.  We assured her > that what she did wasn’t sex.  We had several conversations with her to > be certain that what she described is all that happened.  We have > approached it so many ways, we are confident that nothing else > happened, and with no one else. > However, for the last month or so, she seems so obsessed with what > happened.  At first it was like she was unable to forgive herself.  We > tried many things.  We explained that we forgive her; we told her that, > although she must never do anything like it again, but that what she > did was out of curiosity (because she told us that she was curious to > see how boys were made)  I gave her a crucifix to wear, hoping a symbol > of forgiveness would help.  It didn’t.  We asked if it would her her if > we approaced the oldest of the other kids in her presence to tell her > that we won’t tolerate future similar activity.  She said it would help > her, so my wife arrange for the girl to visit, and they talked.  This > didn’t seem to help much. > It is now getting to the point that everything she talks about, seems > to involve sex (at least what she thinks she knows about it).  If she > sees a carrot, she says it reminds her of a penis; lightbulbs remind > her of breasts, etc… Sometimes she cries because she says she just > can’t seem to stop thinking about it.  We’ve told her that it would be > better to let herself think about because if we know we can’t think > about something we are bound to think about it more. > Between me, my wife, and my wife’s sister, we have had lots of > opportunities to talk with my daughter.  We asked all kinds of > questions so many ways, that we are certain that it was just curiosity > between the kids.  We don’t know where to draw the line.  When we ask > her not to talk about sexual objects (or how she perceives something to > be a sexual object) she says she feels like she must tell us each > time.  It has become that almost all time spent with her is on this > subject.  We don’t know what to do.  Where do we draw the line?  What > could we say or do to make her realize that what she did isn’t the end > of the world?  I don’t want to go on for the next year talking about > it.  It’s the same thing day after day.  Any suggestions?

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Ok, I’m not sure if this is your daughter or yourself you’re talking about. I strongly suspect it’s you. There’s a good possibility that you have obsessive/compulsive disorder. This sort of sexual obsession sort of just plain doesn’t happen in 7yr. olds, especially girls. However, in any event, ocd is heritable, and if she indeed is as precocious as you say, she inherited her condition from you. YOU need to see a good psychiatrist. One who can prescribe some medications. If your child is actually behaving as you claim, take her with you.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am hoping that someone can provide me with some information about > what my daughter is going through now.  She is seven years old, and > this summer (she was six then) told my wife and me that she, along with > 3 other kids in our building (ages 6, 7 and looked at and touched > each other’s private areas.  She kept this in for many months, and > finally cried, saying that she thought she had sex.  We assured her > that what she did wasn’t sex.  We had several conversations with her to > be certain that what she described is all that happened.  We have > approached it so many ways, we are confident that nothing else > happened, and with no one else. > However, for the last month or so, she seems so obsessed with what > happened.  At first it was like she was unable to forgive herself.  We > tried many things.  We explained that we forgive her; we told her that, > although she must never do anything like it again, but that what she > did was out of curiosity (because she told us that she was curious to > see how boys were made)  I gave her a crucifix to wear, hoping a symbol > of forgiveness would help.  It didn’t.  We asked if it would her her if > we approaced the oldest of the other kids in her presence to tell her > that we won’t tolerate future similar activity.  She said it would help > her, so my wife arrange for the girl to visit, and they talked.  This > didn’t seem to help much. > It is now getting to the point that everything she talks about, seems > to involve sex (at least what she thinks she knows about it).  If she > sees a carrot, she says it reminds her of a penis; lightbulbs remind > her of breasts, etc… Sometimes she cries because she says she just > can’t seem to stop thinking about it.  We’ve told her that it would be > better to let herself think about because if we know we can’t think > about something we are bound to think about it more. > Between me, my wife, and my wife’s sister, we have had lots of > opportunities to talk with my daughter.  We asked all kinds of > questions so many ways, that we are certain that it was just curiosity > between the kids.  We don’t know where to draw the line.  When we ask > her not to talk about sexual objects (or how she perceives something to > be a sexual object) she says she feels like she must tell us each > time.  It has become that almost all time spent with her is on this > subject.  We don’t know what to do.  Where do we draw the line?  What > could we say or do to make her realize that what she did isn’t the end > of the world?  I don’t want to go on for the next year talking about > it.  It’s the same thing day after day.  Any suggestions?

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I am hoping that someone can provide me with some information about what my daughter is going through now.  She is seven years old, and this summer (she was six then) told my wife and me that she, along with 3 other kids in our building (ages 6, 7 and looked at and touched each other’s private areas.  She kept this in for many months, and finally cried, saying that she thought she had sex.  We assured her that what she did wasn’t sex.  We had several conversations with her to be certain that what she described is all that happened.  We have approached it so many ways, we are confident that nothing else happened, and with no one else. However, for the last month or so, she seems so obsessed with what happened.  At first it was like she was unable to forgive herself.  We tried many things.  We explained that we forgive her; we told her that, although she must never do anything like it again, but that what she did was out of curiosity (because she told us that she was curious to see how boys were made)  I gave her a crucifix to wear, hoping a symbol of forgiveness would help.  It didn’t.  We asked if it would her her if we approaced the oldest of the other kids in her presence to tell her that we won’t tolerate future similar activity.  She said it would help her, so my wife arrange for the girl to visit, and they talked.  This didn’t seem to help much. It is now getting to the point that everything she talks about, seems to involve sex (at least what she thinks she knows about it).  If she sees a carrot, she says it reminds her of a penis; lightbulbs remind her of breasts, etc… Sometimes she cries because she says she just can’t seem to stop thinking about it.  We’ve told her that it would be better to let herself think about because if we know we can’t think about something we are bound to think about it more. Between me, my wife, and my wife’s sister, we have had lots of opportunities to talk with my daughter.  We asked all kinds of questions so many ways, that we are certain that it was just curiosity between the kids.  We don’t know where to draw the line.  When we ask her not to talk about sexual objects (or how she perceives something to be a sexual object) she says she feels like she must tell us each time.  It has become that almost all time spent with her is on this subject.  We don’t know what to do.  Where do we draw the line?  What could we say or do to make her realize that what she did isn’t the end of the world?  I don’t want to go on for the next year talking about it.  It’s the same thing day after day.  Any suggestions?

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Want some info Contact email

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>Want some info Contact email

If you have something wise that you can share, why not post it in this newsgroup? jadelee

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Hello there. I wonder if you could help me. Where should I go to get the most on Conspiracy?

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>Where should I go to get the most on Conspiracy?

That would be most of Jeff Libermann’s posts.  He posts quite a bit in scruz.general and ba.mountain-folk.  He also posts in many of the comp groups, but that can get kinda dry. He is almost a professional conspiracy theorist and his humor is well known. — Do not underestimate your abilities.  That is your boss’s job. It is your job to find ways around your boss’s roadblocks.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There really isn’t such a thing as "the" FAQ for this group. > The FAQ Aula frequently posts, which is posted on the web > site of a former subscriber to a.p.s., was written very > recently by people who came and went.  It’s not something to > cite as a reference to anything. >I think that you are doing me and the writers, of which I am not one, a >disservice here.  The FAQ was developed and voted on by the group.  Many of >those folks are still present and accounted for.  I am not posting it >because I am into power and control stuff.  I am posting it because I agreed >to do so on a regular basis and no-one has gotten together a newer FAQ to >supplant it. >If, however, aps decides to rewrite the FAQ that is fine.  Implying that I >am posting it for any reason other than that I agreed to do so in order to >make certain that it was published regularly, as originally requested, is >not appropriate, particularly when one does not clearly state where one >stood in the writing and voting on it. >-Aula

Curly doesn’t like the fact that it was voted on and passed despite the fact that s/he objected to it..  Too bad, but majority rules on this particular question.  Maybe s/he wants to take on writing a new one.  If so, Curly, go right ahead.. Post it and we will see if we like your version better. Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. source unknown

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> > If someone knows how I can get a list of "rules and regulations" for >this >> > NG, please let me know. Thanks… >> > …Char >> Aren’t any, there’s no moderator. Binaries can be reported, and libel or >> copyright infringement, or kiddie porn or threats, but those are in law, >> not in any "rules". Usenet has almost no rules that it enforces except >> off-topic spam or binaries. >> Steve >official regulations – no. >FAQ – yes. > Violating the charter can get your isp yanked.  I know.  I watched over a > support group for a while a while back and reported many violations.  Accounts > were yanked.

Violating PARTS of the charter that are found in EVERY charter can get you yanked. The RFC’s speak to which of these the majority might bother with, and they are fairly minimal. A newbie ISP will over-react, but nobody with the power to last will do so. Getting an ISP "yanked" is VERY rare, except in the case of little owned domains who are responsible for much of the UCE (spam) and posted SPAM. They die and are reborn constantly. Steve

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> Violating the charter can get your isp yanked.  I know.  I watched over a > support group for a while a while back and reported many violations. Accounts > were yanked.

You didn’t, by any chance, put in a complaint about me to my ISP, did you? I may be being paranoid, but I’m just wondering, since you have reported "many violations" in the past. ..Charlene

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> > Violating the charter can get your isp yanked.  I know.  I watched over a > support group for a while a while back and reported many violations. > Accounts > were yanked. > You didn’t, by any chance, put in a complaint about me to my ISP, did you? I > may be being paranoid, but I’m just wondering, since you have reported "many > violations" in the past. > ..Charlene

Post the email they sent you, Charlene, and we’ll ALL write them to tell them to leave you the fuck alone!! Steve — -Electronics Site!! 1000 Files/50 Dirs!! http://www.armory.com/~rstevew Europe Naples Italy: http://ftp.unina.it/pub/electronics/ftp.armory.com

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Curly doesn’t like the fact that it was voted on and passed despite > the fact that s/he objected to it..  Too bad, but majority rules on > this particular question.  Maybe s/he wants to take on writing a new > one.  If so, Curly, go right ahead.. Post it and we will see if we > like your version better. > toto is under some naive impression that ten votes in favor > and three against inside of a few days is enough to bind all > participants of a newsgroup from here on out. The problem > with this fallacy is that when someone new, such as > Charlene, asks about rules and regulations, somebody posts > this FAQ that was written and *passed* by a handful of > people who posted here only a very short time. > I suggest that if toto and her bunch want to pass their FAQ > off as "rules and regulation" they follow Usenet procedure > on rules, regulations and voting procedure. > Regards, > — >

>This is down right pathitic! When was the last time you heard a child >say, " Well goblet is clearly a word for drinking thous by reading this >book I will begin drinking". PLEASE! I think its said that still in >this day an age that some people of nothen better to do with their time >but to sit around an dog others work. If a parent finds it offensive >then dont buy it. Its that easy. But for a group of snubs with no real >job but to find things to critize is beyond wrong. It sounds to me like >a witch hunt. I completely disagree with the recall! Let people decide >for themselves wether or not they want to buy it or not. TO EACH THEIR >OWN!

Pup, it was a troll.  I haven’t heard a word about any Harry Potter book recall. Kendra ~*~*~*~ Fight like a real man!  Get on your knees and pray! < ><

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->This is down right pathitic! When was the last time you heard a child >say, " Well goblet is clearly a word for drinking thous by reading this >book I will begin drinking". PLEASE! I think its said that still in >this day an age that some people of nothen better to do with their time >but to sit around an dog others work. If a parent finds it offensive >then dont buy it. Its that easy. But for a group of snubs with no real >job but to find things to critize is beyond wrong. It sounds to me like >a witch hunt. I completely disagree with the recall! Let people decide >for themselves wether or not they want to buy it or not. TO EACH THEIR >OWN! > Pup, it was a troll.  I haven’t heard a word about any Harry Potter book > recall. > Kendra > ~*~*~*~ > Fight like a real man!  Get on your knees and pray! > < ><

Got a copy for our daughter on saturday.  Sold out in the shops before it even got on the shelves through pre orders, so we got a copy through the net.  She was very happy and I’m second in line to read it Annemarie

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ROTFLMAO! !!O*_The MarchHare "There’s no point in being grown up if you can’t be childish sometimes." -The Doctor, ROBOT http://community.webtv.net/marchhare32/Story (My Wild Wild West Fan Fiction) http://community.webtv.net/marchhare32/MAGICPANTSTheWild (My W3 Fan Page)

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JK Rowling is from Scotland.  It should be noted like Sean Connery has pointed out….when the movie is a success the British press touts the latest great movie of BRITISH actor Sean Connery…..but if it fails they lambast to latest flop of SCOTTISH actor Sean Connery! If the Potter books had flopped…JK Rowling would be considered a Scottish Hack….thankfully she succeeded in becoming a British literary star. !!O*_The MarchHare "There’s no point in being grown up if you can’t be childish sometimes." -The Doctor, ROBOT http://community.webtv.net/marchhare32/Story (My Wild Wild West Fan Fiction) http://community.webtv.net/marchhare32/MAGICPANTSTheWild (My W3 Fan Page)

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> JK Rowling is from Scotland.  It should be noted like Sean Connery has > pointed out….when the movie is a success the British press touts the > latest great movie of BRITISH actor Sean Connery…..but if it fails > they lambast to latest flop of SCOTTISH actor Sean Connery! > If the Potter books had flopped…JK Rowling would be considered a > Scottish Hack….thankfully she succeeded in becoming a British literary > star.

All very well, old bean , but unfortunately wrong – she’s English born & bred.

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This is down right pathitic! When was the last time you heard a child say, " Well goblet is clearly a word for drinking thous by reading this book I will begin drinking". PLEASE! I think its said that still in this day an age that some people of nothen better to do with their time but to sit around an dog others work. If a parent finds it offensive then dont buy it. Its that easy. But for a group of snubs with no real job but to find things to critize is beyond wrong. It sounds to me like a witch hunt. I completely disagree with the recall! Let people decide for themselves wether or not they want to buy it or not. TO EACH THEIR OWN! * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Book burning mentality.

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snip kibble dribble What are you jealous because you didn’t write the best selling children’s books? I bought three copies of the new HP book today.  nah nah nah Drr Laurra Pants

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GAWD….

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> snip kibble dribble > What are you jealous because you didn’t write the best selling > children’s books?

Even our local reporters are forgetting that this woman is a BRIT… Here’s a good quote: "…evidence that the Harry Potter craze is not just an American phenomenon…" PLEASE..!  Fire water…what the hell do British children’s authors know or care about indoctrinating American children?

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So what?  The world’s full of hypocracy. AJPDLA

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> We applaud the book recall announced today by the publishers of  "Harry > Potter and the Goblet of Fire." > Distaff author J.K. Rowling at least temporarily put aside her female > monetary greed by endorsing the mass recall by the publishers–who were > also revealed to be the printers of Penthouse magazine.  What’s next?  A > menage a trois between Harry and his Penthouse Pet Hermione? > Authoress Rowling seems to have been shamed into approving the > retraction of her latest "Harry Potter" book when social watchdogs > pointed out its endorsement of adult behaviors by children that should > shock any parent. > The very title "Harry Potter and the Goblet of  Fire" has sparked > unremitting controversy. > The Oxford (England) Child Protection Literary Society dissected the > title and found the following to be objectionable: >

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Well.. Ok.  I guess I’ll have to say thanks Steve, even if you are still a > slanderous asshole, because that made a lot of sence. Not the part about you > seriously hurting me, that was just funny, but the parts about innocence and > normality. It was nice to be able to see the situation from that viewpoint. > Tascha’s innocence is out the window, there is certainly no doubt about > that, so I guess now the only thing that could be done for her is to teach > her to exercise a bit of caution. From reading the other thread about *Kim*, > another seemingly sex craved five year old, its clear that the biggest risk > isn’t that Tascha will have sex with someone, but that some hormone infested > pregnant bitch will call the police, or worse, and then Tascha would really > be fucked. > Thanks, >         Tony. > PS.  I understand now why you thought I was a troll. I didn’t realize an > introduction would be in order.  Seems kind of off-topic to me actually.

Yes, the best thing you could attempt to do for her is to try to explain to her how crazy the rest of this country is about sex and that they will try to put her someplace she won’t like and put her parents in jail if she shows her sexuality to others before she is pubescent. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I’d just like to say "Fuck you all" to everyone except just me, who > answered > > my posting about the five year old who wants sex with a rational and > > compassionate suggestion of abuse therapy.  The rest of you can eat > shit.  I > > come with a genuine problem and you all ASSume it is a ficticious > account. > > If you all will check around, this is the only group I have posted in > for > > months.  Very untrolllike behavior.  If you don’t have a genuine > responce, > > then shut the fuck up.  And to Steve, the slanderous asshole who accuses > > people of posting where they are not, and trolling where they are not, > Eat > > shit mother fucker!.  I feel like beating you senceless, and I could to. > You mean "senseless" and "too". And no, you can’t, because I would hurt > you seriously. > Look, if this is actually true then listen: > You can’t restore innocence and innocence is a waste of life, a lot like > unconsciousness, it’s delayed development, and while morons consider it > "cute" it makes me puke to stunt kids that way for adult amusement. You > can’t expect kids who have seen or experienced sex to like it "down on > dee farm after dey seen Paree"!! If the girl was given a good time > sexually then she’s fine and leave her the hell alone. If she was forced > to do things she didn’t like you will be able to find out fairly easily. > Merely knowing what sex looks like is not harmful at all, billions of > people on earth saw it at a young age.  As for sexual activity in > childhood it is normal and sweet if it’s voluntary, so leave them the > hell alone. Countless humans on this planet ignore children licking and > sucking completely. > You’re clearly thinking of practicing medicine and law enforcement > without portfolio and you can do far more harm than sex ever could! > Steve

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From reading the other thread about *Kim*, another seemingly sex craved five year old, its clear that the biggest risk isn’t that Tascha will have sex with someone, but that some hormone infested pregnant bitch will call the police, or worse, and then Tascha would really be fucked. Thanks,

> Dear Sir/Madam, >  Please do not add us for we hate to be crossposted. > *calls ot to the rest of the ng* Anyone else agree?

Agreed, although the thought was appreciated. If anyone does have view on such a discussion, I am sure they will visit your NG and post their opinions. > ~Gloria AKA Sheena, Queen of the Jungle >  "Insert funny qoute here" > http://bounce.to/myworld.gloria > A glimspe into my madness > Yahoo! Pager: gloriangel > AOL IM(obviously): Alkiperson      ICQ: 48259150

– Joey Gambino I am insane and you are my insanity. http://www.alt-teens.org http://www.cybercityusa.com Support anti-Spam legislation. Join the fight http://www.cauce.org/

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I’m reposting this since new people from alt.schools.violence may not have seen it when it originally appeared on alt.parents.teens or alt.parenting solutions. and the title of this thread seemed appropriate for this post also.  Some aac people and ayr people may have seen this before though I am editing out the interspersed comments of another poster to get back to the original and I’ve added some comments of my own here which I didn’t do when I reposted it the first time. > I have been reading some stuff here and I see a lot of you are > asking questions that we could answer for you. just because we are > kids doesn’t  mean we are dumb. It isn’t like it was when you were > our age, we have to  grow up fast now.

When this post appeared, Eric got quite a bit of flack for trying to express himself in a group of parents of teens.  Several other teens were posting there also and came in to support him and were told to stop flaming the adults.  Interestingly, Eric himself accepted some of the adult criticisms easily, something I suspect that I would not have done if I’d been in his shoes. Other teens who posted saw the adults as putting him down and as not listening to his ideas. > I am shure there are a lot of questions you already know thwe > answers to if you look back at your life. >I am glad you are  trying to understand us because >sometimes we try to understand you too but it isn’t any easier. >I was talking to a couple of my friends here and this is what we >came up with. > 1-When your kid comes up to you to talk about something, turn > off the tv or stop reading the newspaper.

To apsolutions folks and others who know me, I’ve said the same about listening to even toddlers. We have to stop making our children feel as if our adult activities are more important than listening to what they have to say. > We get tired of you not listening to us and we stop asking > questions.

Kids get the message that they are bothering us and that they aren’t very important in the scheme of things.  Eventually they stop talking to us because they know we don’t want to hear what they are saying. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 2-When we ask you a question and you don’t have the answer, > go find out the answer instead of giving us the run around > and useless information. We already know about that stuff. > 3-If we ask you something it doesn’t mean we are going to > go out and do it so dont get mad about our asking the > question. Sometimes we just want to hear what you think > about something. > 4-Start talking to your kids when they are young because > when we get older we aren’t used to talking to you and if > you do start talking to us, give us some time to get used > to it. > 5-Start talking to us about sex before we need to know > about it. When we need th information it is usualy too > late to ask. Remember we talk about sex a lot sooner than > you think we do so we already have some ideas about it. > 6-Don’t just sit down and start talking about sex to us > because it makes us uncomfortable. get us some books and > just leave then on our bed to read. That way we know you > are interested in giving us the information and we will > ask you about things. > 7-When we are bad it isn’t because we want to be bad. > We know rite from wrong but sometimes we feel we have > to go along with our friends. > Another reason we are bad is that we want somebody to notice > something about us. > Don’t just get mad and punish us, sit down with us and find out > why we did what we did. Sometimes we still dont feel comfortable > talking to you but we know you are at least trying to find out > and that  you know something is wrong. > You might even ask our friends because sometimes we talk to them > about things we can’t talk to you about.

Another point that Eric makes here. Even teenagers don’t intend to do something that is *bad* in parent’s eyes.  Sometimes the pressure of peers gets the better of them, but they aren’t intentionally trying to hurt their parents for the most part. Sometimes they need attention just as younger children do. > 8-Show us with your actions and not just words. Don’t tell > us not to cuss if you do. Don’t tell us not to drink if you do. > We learn from  watching you. If you don’t care enough to set > a good example, then why  should we listen to you.

Another way of saying that kids even teens learn what they live. We cannot expect kids to do as we say unless we are willing to live what we want them to do. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 9-Sit down and talk to us every day at the supper table or > when we go to bed. Do it when there is nobody else around > so we feel special. Ask us what we did today (we probably > won’t tell you at first but keep asking)  and tell us what > you did today. Dont complain about everything but a little > is ok. Find something fun or funny to talk about so its > fun to talk to you. > 10-Don’t say wait till your dad gets home when we mess up. > Moast of us know he isn’t going to do anything and if he > does we feel like you are a tattle tail. > 11-Don’t talk down about people because we learn to do it > too and besides you dont know if we are realy the type of > person that you are talking about. > There are six of us here in the room now and two of us > are gay but one of us is scared to talk to his parents > about it because they talk about the f*****g fags all > the time. The one who can’t talk to  his parents does > talk to my uncle about that stuff but your kid might not > have anybody to talk to and its pretty scarry to hear how > everybody  hates you even your parents. Oh yes and don’t > punish us if we feel we  are gay because sometimes we > outgrow it but the damage has already been done. If your > kid does tell you he is gay or you find out, sit down and > ask questions so you understand why we think we are gay and > so you can understand where we are coming from. Moast of our > friends don’t even care if we are or not so why should you > unless we are not happy about being that way. > 12-Take time to do things with us. Don’t just tell us to > go find something to do. What we find to do may not be what > you want us to do. Take us places and play with us. Make > being around you fun. > 13-Sit down and help us with our homework and don’t tell > us the amswers. Just explain how to work out the problem. > 14-Compliment us when we do something good or when we get > good grades. > 15-Try asking us to do things instead of telling us and > give us a little time to do it. Shure the grass needs mowing > today and it will need it tomorrow too but the baseball game > isn’t being played tomorrow. > 16-When you have a bad day at work, leave it at work because > we probably had a bad day at school too. > Well that is what we came up with here. There are probably > a lot more things if we keep working at it. At first we > couldn’t think of anything to write here but when we got > started it came easy so why don’t you try thinking of some > more things to add to this post. Remember what it was like > when you were a kid. > Thank you for your time, > Eric, Scooter, Andy, Jacky and Wendy

I cannot comment more about the wisdom of these teens, but I think they speak eloquently for what parents need to do to help keep teens strong.  The listening has to begin from birth.  At that point we read body language and cries and the listening must continue for as long as we are acting as parents and in fact beyond into our adult relationship with our kids. At that point, hopefully, they will also be listening to us and to their own children. Dorothy Before you buy.

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Well worth the read Dorothy.  What neat kids these teens must be.  I am surprised that the parents flamed them, they must be very insecure. Annemarie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m reposting this since new people from alt.schools.violence > may not have seen it when it originally appeared on > alt.parents.teens or alt.parenting solutions. and the > title of this thread seemed appropriate for this post > also.  Some aac people and ayr people may have seen this > before though I am editing out the interspersed comments > of another poster to get back to the original and I’ve > added some comments of my own here which I didn’t do when > I reposted it the first time. > I have been reading some stuff here and I see a lot of you are > asking questions that we could answer for you. just because we are > kids doesn’t  mean we are dumb. It isn’t like it was when you were > our age, we have to  grow up fast now. > When this post appeared, Eric got quite a bit of flack for trying > to express himself in a group of parents of teens.  Several other > teens were posting there also and came in to support him and were > told to stop flaming the adults.  Interestingly, Eric himself > accepted some of the adult criticisms easily, something I suspect > that I would not have done if I’d been in his shoes. Other teens > who posted saw the adults as putting him down and as not listening > to his ideas. > I am shure there are a lot of questions you already know thwe > answers to if you look back at your life. >I am glad you are  trying to understand us because >sometimes we try to understand you too but it isn’t any easier. >I was talking to a couple of my friends here and this is what we >came up with. > 1-When your kid comes up to you to talk about something, turn > off the tv or stop reading the newspaper. > To apsolutions folks and others who know me, I’ve said the same > about listening to even toddlers. We have to stop making our > children feel as if our adult activities are more important > than listening to what they have to say. > We get tired of you not listening to us and we stop asking > questions. > Kids get the message that they are bothering us and that they > aren’t very important in the scheme of things.  Eventually they > stop talking to us because they know we don’t want to hear what > they are saying. > 2-When we ask you a question and you don’t have the answer, > go find out the answer instead of giving us the run around > and useless information. We already know about that stuff. > 3-If we ask you something it doesn’t mean we are going to > go out and do it so dont get mad about our asking the > question. Sometimes we just want to hear what you think > about something. > 4-Start talking to your kids when they are young because > when we get older we aren’t used to talking to you and if > you do start talking to us, give us some time to get used > to it. > 5-Start talking to us about sex before we need to know > about it. When we need th information it is usualy too > late to ask. Remember we talk about sex a lot sooner than > you think we do so we already have some ideas about it. > 6-Don’t just sit down and start talking about sex to us > because it makes us uncomfortable. get us some books and > just leave then on our bed to read. That way we know you > are interested in giving us the information and we will > ask you about things. > 7-When we are bad it isn’t because we want to be bad. > We know rite from wrong but sometimes we feel we have > to go along with our friends. > Another reason we are bad is that we want somebody to notice > something about us. > Don’t just get mad and punish us, sit down with us and find out > why we did what we did. Sometimes we still dont feel comfortable > talking to you but we know you are at least trying to find out > and that  you know something is wrong. > You might even ask our friends because sometimes we talk to them > about things we can’t talk to you about. > Another point that Eric makes here. Even teenagers don’t > intend to do something that is *bad* in parent’s eyes.  Sometimes > the pressure of peers gets the better of them, but they aren’t > intentionally trying to hurt their parents for the most part. > Sometimes they need attention just as younger children do. > 8-Show us with your actions and not just words. Don’t tell > us not to cuss if you do. Don’t tell us not to drink if you do. > We learn from  watching you. If you don’t care enough to set > a good example, then why  should we listen to you. > Another way of saying that kids even teens learn what they live. > We cannot expect kids to do as we say unless we are willing to > live what we want them to do. > 9-Sit down and talk to us every day at the supper table or > when we go to bed. Do it when there is nobody else around > so we feel special. Ask us what we did today (we probably > won’t tell you at first but keep asking)  and tell us what > you did today. Dont complain about everything but a little > is ok. Find something fun or funny to talk about so its > fun to talk to you. > 10-Don’t say wait till your dad gets home when we mess up. > Moast of us know he isn’t going to do anything and if he > does we feel like you are a tattle tail. > 11-Don’t talk down about people because we learn to do it > too and besides you dont know if we are realy the type of > person that you are talking about. > There are six of us here in the room now and two of us > are gay but one of us is scared to talk to his parents > about it because they talk about the f*****g fags all > the time. The one who can’t talk to  his parents does > talk to my uncle about that stuff but your kid might not > have anybody to talk to and its pretty scarry to hear how > everybody  hates you even your parents. Oh yes and don’t > punish us if we feel we  are gay because sometimes we > outgrow it but the damage has already been done. If your > kid does tell you he is gay or you find out, sit down and > ask questions so you understand why we think we are gay and > so you can understand where we are coming from. Moast of our > friends don’t even care if we are or not so why should you > unless we are not happy about being that way. > 12-Take time to do things with us. Don’t just tell us to > go find something to do. What we find to do may not be what > you want us to do. Take us places and play with us. Make > being around you fun. > 13-Sit down and help us with our homework and don’t tell > us the amswers. Just explain how to work out the problem. > 14-Compliment us when we do something good or when we get > good grades. > 15-Try asking us to do things instead of telling us and > give us a little time to do it. Shure the grass needs mowing > today and it will need it tomorrow too but the baseball game > isn’t being played tomorrow. > 16-When you have a bad day at work, leave it at work because > we probably had a bad day at school too. > Well that is what we came up with here. There are probably > a lot more things if we keep working at it. At first we > couldn’t think of anything to write here but when we got > started it came easy so why don’t you try thinking of some > more things to add to this post. Remember what it was like > when you were a kid. > Thank you for your time, > Eric, Scooter, Andy, Jacky and Wendy > I cannot comment more about the wisdom of these teens, but > I think they speak eloquently for what parents need to do > to help keep teens strong.  The listening has to begin from > birth.  At that point we read body language and cries and the > listening must continue for as long as we are acting as parents > and in fact beyond into our adult relationship with our kids. > At that point, hopefully, they will also be listening to us > and to their own children. > Dorothy > Before you buy.

Response:

> Dana, I’m adding alt.teens to this because it would seem that they > could add there perspective to this.  Also corrected the mispelling > of apsolutions.

Thanks.  You may have more of those corrections to make as when I posted this one I think I was only hitting on 5 of 8 cylinders. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> For any teens who would like to contribute to discussions about > adult/child relationships, school violence or other topics of > interest in general, I invite you to participate and xpost or to > visit alt.activism.children to add your voice to discussions here. > alt.school.violence is a new newsgroup that some of you might > also want to participate in and if you do not currently receive it > on your server, it might help if you requested the ISP to add it to > their list. >(interesting article that shows part of the problem) >   WASHINGTON, May 2 (AFP) – While US teenagers say they want more >time with their parents, most families spend barely over an hour a >day together and have significant communication gaps, according to a >poll out Tuesday. >   Many Americans rarely eat dinner together and most parents >underestimate the amount of time their kids spend in front of the >television, according to a Young Men’s Christian Association survey >sponsored by the White House. >   While 61 percent of the parents surveyed with their 12-15 >year-olds said they talk frequently with their teens about sex, >drugs, alcohol and violence, only 41 percent of the kids reported >such conversations. >   And while 62 percent of the parents said their children shared >their views, only 46 percent of the teens agreed. >   Education and inadequate family time topped the teens’ list of >concerns, while parents cited alcohol and drug abuse as their >biggest worries, according to the telephone survey of 200 teens and >200 parents conducted April 11-20. >   Most families spend only 80 minutes a day together and parents >eat no more than four meals a week with their children, the poll >found. >   Only 12 percent of parents believe their kids spend most of >their free time watching television while 20 percent of the teens >confessed it was their main pastime. >   US President Bill Clinton and his wife Hillary were hosting a >conference on teenagers to discuss the findings and search for ways >to keep kids in school and out of trouble. >   The study and the event were prompted by growing concerns about >troubled teens and the wave of school shootings as well as by new >research finding that the brain goes through a critical >developmental stage just before puberty. > Dorothy > There is no sound, no cry in all the world > that can be heard unless someone listens .. > source unknown

– "Some have brains, and some haven’t," Pooh says, "and there it is."

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 This sort of talk has no place on this newsgroup. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >ha ha ha, you’re about as funny as a dead body. >  It would be funny to me it the dead body were yours. >It would be funny to me if you had Jay Leno’s disembodied head inserted >into your rectum. >– Jack Tarkaan                                      Kalamazoo, Michigan >– NO UNSOLICITED E-MAIL AT THIS ADDRESS – Respect privacy – NO SPAM!!!!

Response:

>>  Jaquie, I’m sure this is not the first time you’ve had the clap. >Elaine, you ever screw an animal?  I’m not into beastiality or anything, >but I’ve seen some hairless dogs that have made me go WOO HOO….you >know, put a spark in the old pants?  You know how that is? >Oh.  Of course you don’t.  Nevermind! >– Jack Tarkaan                                      Kalamazoo, Michigan >– NO UNSOLICITED E-MAIL AT THIS ADDRESS – Respect privacy – NO SPAM!!!!

I tink hers likes Chi wah wahs fer sexx.   Poopie Pants

Response:

>You started it.

 ;)  "You started it"????   You’d accept that from your kids?  Don’t yell at your children next time they pull that lame excuse out of the bag….

Response:

Just making a point, Elaine.  In all the threads I’ve seen you participate in, you are usually the one that starts the name calling, insults, and so forth.  Pretty hypocritical of you to chastise someone else for the same thing, IMO… The One

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->You started it. >  ;)  "You started it"????   You’d accept that from your kids?  Don’t yell at > your children next time they pull that lame excuse out of the bag….

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->ARMED & BLACK >Two different types of gun-toting  blacks picked up arms went on >homicidal rages in America this week. >The first