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I try to buy organic too, but it’s not available close to home. If I can’t buy organic, I always peel the apples. I know it loses some nutrients that way, but I just hate the thought of eating (or my kids eating) that wax! Marti > >>Is there anything I should know about the wax they put on apples and other
..> I have researched this too, and the wax itself is harmless, but Lisa is – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> correct. There are pesticide residues on all food that is not labeled > "organic" … > There is enough uncertainty that for my family, it is worth paying the > extra price for organic food. Especially for my kids. > Annie Hamilton
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Is there anything I should know about the wax they put on apples and other >>fruit. I fanatasize that it helps the fruit skin retain pestacides or >>something, so I scrape as much off as I reasonably can before I give it to >>my kids. I look for unwaxed fruit but I’ve noticed the stuff on dsicount >>is a gamble. >. >The wax is used only for improving the looks of the fruit. But it is >completely harmless. If you remove that wax, you would be hard >pressed to tell it apart from the so called discount fruit. > I remember seeing a show on this, and I’m pretty sure that the > pesticide is still on the apples when they are waxed. So that wax is > actually sealing it in and not allowing one to wash away the > pesticide. > Lisa Jones
I have researched this too, and the wax itself is harmless, but Lisa is correct. There are pesticide residues on all food that is not labeled "organic" People argue alot about the effects of these pesticide residues and you hear anything from no effect to sure cancer. The problem is that there have not been enough tests done on the effects for anyone to say really what the effects are, so anyone who says they know this or that is probably just an extremist. But that is not to say that the lack of information means you are safe. Govt regs on this subject are laughable. For instance they say, you should only ingest so much of this or that pesticide residue – then they go on to say what the average consumption of certain foods is, and calculate that if you eat the average amount you will be safe. But the average amounts are laughable – like one cantaloupe per year, or two pounds of broccoli per year (we eat a pound a week). I was told that these standards were set up in the 50s when fruit and vegetable consumption was much lower than today. But the really frightening thing is that these standards are for an average size adult. So if you are a slight woman like me, or even worse, a child and eat more than two pounds of broccoli a year, who knows what the effects are. The wax on apples does indeed keep you from being able to wash pesticide residues off the apples. There is enough uncertainty that for my family, it is worth paying the extra price for organic food. Especially for my kids. Annie Hamilton
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Is there anything I should know about the wax they put on apples and other fruit. I fanatasize that it helps the fruit skin retain pestacides or something, so I scrape as much off as I reasonably can before I give it to my kids. I look for unwaxed fruit but I’ve noticed the stuff on dsicount is a gamble. Thanks. – Ron Low Levity is the dearth of gravity. Brevity is the height of clarity.
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>Is there anything I should know about the wax they put on apples and other >fruit. I fanatasize that it helps the fruit skin retain pestacides or >something, so I scrape as much off as I reasonably can before I give it to >my kids. I look for unwaxed fruit but I’ve noticed the stuff on dsicount >is a gamble. .
The wax is used only for improving the looks of the fruit. But it is completely harmless. If you remove that wax, you would be hard pressed to tell it apart from the so called discount fruit.
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>>Is there anything I should know about the wax they put on apples and other >fruit. I fanatasize that it helps the fruit skin retain pestacides or >something, so I scrape as much off as I reasonably can before I give it to >my kids. I look for unwaxed fruit but I’ve noticed the stuff on dsicount >is a gamble. >. >The wax is used only for improving the looks of the fruit. But it is >completely harmless. If you remove that wax, you would be hard >pressed to tell it apart from the so called discount fruit.
I remember seeing a show on this, and I’m pretty sure that the pesticide is still on the apples when they are waxed. So that wax is actually sealing it in and not allowing one to wash away the pesticide. Lisa Jones
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HELP THE CHILDREN PRESENTS: PARENTING SOLUTIONS Special Thoughts on Raising Kids Lois Paul, Executive Director LYING Lying in childhood is a phase. However, if the phase is handled incorrectly by adults, the phase could develop into a life stance. Many parents unconsciously make lying an issue by asking, "Is that the truth?" when there is really no solid reason to doubt the child. Sometimes when a child is dejected or down, parents may say, understandably, "What’s wrong?" The child will say, not wanting to talk, "Oh, nothing." At this point it is not wise for the parent to say, "Is that the truth?" or, "Don’t you fib to me," but to say instead, "Well, if you want to talk, I’m here." The most common mistake parents make is to try and force their child to tell the truth when the parents already know the truth. This almost always ends in a control battle that neither parent nor child feels good about. Often the child continues to lie, getting deeper and deeper into negative feelings with the parent. Here’s how this parent avoids a control battle centered around stolen cookies by assuming the child knows the parent knows the truth of the situation: Parent: "Robert, come here. What did I tell you about these cookies?" Robert: "Not to eat them, but I didn’t." Parent: "What did I tell you?" Robert: "Not to eat them." Parent: "Thank you! What did I say I was saving them for?" Robert: "Paul’s party." Parent: "Right. This hacks me off. You hit your room right now and think things over." Robert: "But. . ." Parent: "Where do you need to go to think things over?" Robert: "My room." Parent: "Thank you!" If parents know the truth, and try to get their child to admit it, it is a hidden way of saying, "I know you are going to continue to lie to me." When a child las lied, restitution needs to be made. The consequence is handled coolly and as non-emotionally as possible so that when our children do tell the truth about a difficult issue, we can say, "Wow, I bet that was hard to say! Thanks for the truth!" The emotion we have as parents is best reserved for when the child says or does something right. Children can be "convicted" and consequenced on strong circumstantial evidence. Parents who find a candy wrapper in a child’s room and allow the child to protest that no candy has been eaten are almost asking for the child to lie. A wise parent says, "I always take empty candy wrappers as evidence a person has eaten one. I think you need to give the whole thing some thought. If you still need to think about it over dinner time, no big deal." Lastly, it is better to tell a child, "I don’t believe you," than to say. "You’re lying." It is easy for a child to argue he is telling the truth, but he can’t argue with the fact that you don’t believe him! THERE ARE FIVE BASIC RULES FOR HANDLING LYING BY CHILDREN: 1. Don’t try to force your child to tell the truth when you already know it! Generally speaking, trying to force the child – ever – to tell the truth is a control battle the adult will lose. 2. Give your child more positive emotion for being honest than negative emotion for lying. 3. Consequence lying without anger. 4. Children may be consequenced for circumstantial evidence. 5. It is better to tell children we don’t believe them than tell them they are lying.
[ HTCSIG < 1K ]
Lois E Paul, Executive Director Voice (209) 478-5585 Help The Children FAX (209) 478-5586 1350 W Robinhood Dr Ste2 TDD/TTY (209) 478-5685 HTTP://www.adopting.org/htc.html – All Children Are Gifted…. They Just Open Their Presents At Different Times –
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>Lying is sometimes a defense mechanism…
I also heard of another reason lying crops up in adolescents. They just want a little privacy, so when mom asks "what did you do last night?" they cook up a little story. It may not be any more innocent, – or saucy, or less interesting – than what actually happened, but it shields them from fully revealing themselves. – Ron Low Levity is the dearth of gravity. Brevity is the height of clarity.
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>Say, "I know that you took >the money, and I’d like to work on a plan for how it can be returned."
I’m sorry, I’ve read *so* many of these now I’ve got to say something. Do you people actually *say* this stuff? I know I’d get some really strange looks and not just from the kids. IM(H)O this is a good example of why we now have to have discussions on why kids are out of control. It’s TOO SOFT. However, something that works for me, 95% of the time (no lie) is this scenario Teacher: Did you do this? (whatever it might be) Pupil: No. Teacher: Are you lying to me? (Those exact words – no ambiguity, firm but pleasant) Pupil: Yes. (Like I said, in 95% of cases) Situation diffused, honesty prevails and further confrontation avoided. Bonus is property returned, vandalism repaired etc etc. It works, as I say, for me. Maybe I’m just lucky. JMC
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From the book Positive Discipline A-Z a Teachers Guide by Dr. Jane Nelsen. http://www.empoweringpeople.com Lying Discussion Students who lie or resort to fabrication are neither defective nor immoral. Lying is sometimes a defense mechanism for people who fear that the truth will be ridiculed or dismissed or will reflect badly on them. Why would anyone tell the truth if the result will be punishment or disapproval? Teachers need to discover the reasons students lie before they can help them give up their need to lie. Whenever possible, look behind the falsehood or fabrication to see its intent. Teachers can learn a lot about students by letting them talk instead of correcting them or ignoring them. Children between the ages of four and five typically lie or fabricate stories because the difference between real and unreal is hazy to them. Older children may lie to prevent parents or teachers from worrying about what their kids or students are doing or to avoid hurting the adults’ feelings. Students who deceive may feel trapped or afraid of punishment. They may fear rejection or feel threatened. They may truly believe that lying will make a situation easier for everyone. They may be trying to make themselves look better in other people’s eyes because they don’t believe they’re good enough as they are. They may want to impress or upset others. They may be trying to tell you something important, but they lack the words or skills to do it any other way. Suggestions 1. Be aware of asking setup questions that may invite lying. Focus on solutions to the problem rather than blame. If you’re certain that a student has stolen money from a class kitty, don’t ask, "Did you take the money?" Say, "I know that you took the money, and I’d like to work on a plan for how it can be returned." 2. If your instinct tells you that a student is lying, you might say, "That doesn’t sound like the truth to me. Most of us find it hard to tell the truth when we’re feeling trapped or scared. Let’s both think about how we can focus on solutions and then talk about this during lunch or after school. Which would work best for you?" 3. Address the student’s feelings instead of his words: "As you’re telling me this, you sound nervous. Let’s talk about that." 4. Rather than saying, "That’s not true," try saying, "Tell me more about that." 5. With a young student, play "Let’s Pretend," and embellish the child’s story with improbable details. Laugh together, and then discuss the difference between pretend and real. Ask whether the details you supplied were imaginary or real. Help the child develop his ability to distinguish the two. 6. If you think students are playing games with you, let them know that it’s okay to tell stories and you like hearing them. Share with them that it’s respectful for people to let their listener know when they’re telling tall tales. Planning Ahead to Prevent Future Problems 1. Create an atmosphere that assures students they won’t be punished or receive disapproval for making mistakes. Let them know that they will have opportunities to learn from mistakes and to find solutions to problems with the help of the whole class, the teacher, or a small group of students. 2. Teach about mistakes at a class meeting. Help your students see mistakes as opportunities to learn, so they won’t believe that they are bad for making mistakes or that mistakes should be covered up. 3. Allow time for fabricated stories. This can be done through journal writing, telling stories while the group sits in a circle, or sharing one-on-one during a break. 4. An insecure student may lie to enhance her image. This student has found that she can win attention and recognition by embroidering on her experiences or fabricating tales. Help this student find other ways to earn recognition or attention. 5. Help the student who deceives to see how his fabrications impact others. He is hoping that this behavior will attract people to him and may not realize that it’s actually pushing them away. 6. Share the story of a time when you told a lie and it caused you trouble. Students often feel freer to admit their mistakes if they know you have also made some. You may even have a true story of a time when it was difficult for you to tell the truth about something you’d done, but you decided that it was more important to experience the consequences and keep your self-respect than to protect yourself. Be sure that this is an honest sharing instead of a lecture. 7. All the ways in which you show your students that you care about them will help to reduce the incidence of lying. Knowing that your teacher sees you as a likable person enhances feelings of belonging and importance.[NL ends] Inspirational Stories David and Mr. Ventana Mr. Ventana saw David break a beaker in the chemistry laboratory. This student had lied to Mr. Ventana in the past. David had an ability to use his words in a disarming way to get himself out of uncomfortable or threatening situations. Instead of asking David whether he broke the beaker, which would almost certainly lead to a lengthy story, Mr. Ventana walked up to him and said, "David, I noticed that you broke the beaker. We all have accidents, but it will need to be replaced. How can I assist in making that happen?" By stating what he saw and focusing on finding a solution rather than placing blame, Mr. Ventana helped David to accept responsibility for his action. http://www.empoweringpeople.com
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I won’t be revisiting this list so I would appreciate it if I wasn’t > discussed in future. I realize this is a tall order, but it’s rather > humiliating. I initially asked for private responses. > Please accept my extreme gratitute to those of you who ‘defended’ me and > those of you who sent questions and advice to me privately. But I don’t > have a thick enough skin to participate in what happened here. > I don’t need to be told that having a child with someone you’re not > married to is a terrible thing to do to a child. I am harder on myself > than anyone could ever be. I have given over everything to parenting, and > gone way out of my way to foster the relationship with my sons father, > I make sure they are told about and invited to any Dr. appt, conferences, > all games, performances, parties. I offer up extra time also. > To hear my son being called ‘lonely fatherless child’ has broken > me. I have sacrificed my entire life and feelings and needs and done my > very best – and yet I asked for help on how I could do more. I blame > myself, I thought I’d made that clear. I am devasted daily, by what I’ve > done, bringing him to a family so split. Hearing more about how horrible I > am, I don’t need. > Again, thanks for the support you’ve given. Thanks for the advice you did > give privately. I will read it another time, just not right now. > How about going back to what you were discussing before I ever appeared on > the list. Thanks.
I don’t blame you one bit. I’m pretty disgusted with this group to. Reading some responses to your letter was the last straw and I’m not returning either. Good luck with raising your child…you sound like a good mom. Karen Mommy to Brandon 4 1/2, Dylan 3, and Caden 1.
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: This is the nastiest thing I have ever seen—ranks right up there with : the White race purity postings….. ??? Are we talking about the same message? Jana should have been very pleased to get the message I sent her. I told her that her son is in fact a completely normal little boy. He’s NOT a compulsive liar. Also, that no parent is required to totally give up their social life as a "sacrifice" to their child. She can now build a social life separate from her child. This should be the best news that she has received in years. — Elaine Gallegos
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Interchange: Santa Clara Interagency Network for Infant/Toddler Intervention organizes a Family Fair with resources for young children with special needs: Saturday 11 october, 1997 from 10 am till 2 pm in Guadalupe park in San Jose, California (next to the children’s discovery museum (free parking at the adobe rldg) What can you expect: Information for parents and caregivers Community resources Activities and fun for the children Entertainment This events is sponsored by: Early Start Programs & Interchange. Parents and professionals working together to provide coordinated services for families with young children with special needs. If you have questions you can contact 408-559-1400.
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Now if you had been that nice to begin with, we would not be having this conversation….. Kathleen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >: This is the nastiest thing I have ever seen—ranks right up there with >: the White race purity postings….. >??? Are we talking about the same message? Jana should have been very >pleased to get the message I sent her. I told her that her son is in fact >a completely normal little boy. He’s NOT a compulsive liar. > Also, that no parent is required to totally give up their social life as >a "sacrifice" to their child. She can now build a social life separate >from her child. This should be the best news that she has received in >years.
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> Gee, if you’re not going to be reading this, I guess I can just go ahead > and tell you the truth without fear of sending you into another tizzy. > You act as if you really want to hear the truth from people, but in the > infamous words of Jack Nicholson, "YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH". > The main truth is that you seem to expect the world to dance to your > beck and call. > Your delicate sensibilities don’t seem to preclude repeatedly accusing > your tiny son of lying. > Evidently, you do. So what were you thinking when you got pregnant with > him?
<<many rude and cruel thoughtless comments snipped>> Again, Elaine, you appear heartless and petty minded. Not every lives in your perfect world and you have no right to judge her life or anyone elses. I really don’t believe you and your life are as perfect as you seem to want us to think. Actually, I think I pity your child more than Jana’s.
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This is the nastiest thing I have ever seen—ranks right up there with the White race purity postings….. Elaine–this ng is called alt. parenting. SOLUTIONS for a reason–it is NOT called alt.parenting. let’s just knock people down for the hell of it. People come here and ask for help for many different problems they may be having. Your brand of "help" is destructive and certainly NOT what is needed. What good does it do to be told that you shouldn’t have had kids?? They already have kids, and kids come with a "no refunds, no return" policy. So the thing to do now is to get help if you are stuck on a particular issue, especially some advice from other parents who may have successfully dealt with your issue. THAT is the purpose of this newsgroup. Recriminations and piling on the guilt does nothing to help solve the problem. If you are here just to spew venom, well its an unmoderated ng, so I suppose we are stuck with you, but I wish you would consider the ramifications of what you post here. Okay–you made Jana feel really bad about even having a child and being a single parent, but in what way does that help the child?? What would you suggest that would actually HELP the child now?? Or are you too busy beating people up to have time for some really constructive suggestions? Kathleen New Jersey
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Oh just ignore her. She’s doing the same thing in misc.kids On Usenet arguing just fuels the fire; the only way to deal with inflammatory people is to IGNORE them until they get bored and go away. — If this looks funny I’m typing with the baby on my lap!
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elaine, you should be ashamed of yourself. i can not believe that you could be so hurtful to the woman! she came to this group asking for advice, and all you can do is abuse her. > Gee, if you’re not going to be reading this, I guess I can just go ahead > and tell you the truth without fear of sending you into another tizzy.
yeah….much nicer to slag someone when you know they are not going to know about it! > The main truth is that you seem to expect the world to dance to your > beck and call.
excuse me??? i thought this newsgroup was to ask other parents for advice and maybe get some….how on earth can that be interpreted as wanting the world to dance to your beck and call??? i think you have serious problems > Your delicate sensibilities don’t seem to preclude repeatedly accusing > your tiny son of lying.
oh please….we all know that children lie…..it is something they are faced with every day. i’d hardly say your statement is very fair. the whole point of the original posting was for HELP to overcome this lying! > Evidently, you do. So what were you thinking when you got pregnant with > him? What were you thinking when you decided to raise him yourself without > a full time father?
who died and elected YOU god elaine. it is a fact that in this world there are single parent families. Yes, i am one myself. I elected to raise my daughter alone. I have not excluded her father from her life completely, i’d never be so heartless. However i felt it healthier for me and my child to live apart from my husband. at least my daughter now has a chance to know what it is like to live in a loving environment, not one full of abuse and hatred. > Who asked you to do that? Where did you get the idea that your child would > be better off if you had no personal life? Are you using the boy to hide > from life?
ask most single parents who care for their children. yes, you usually give up a personal life for that. i certainly dont begrudge my daughter and constantly remind her what i am giving up for her sake. i hardly feel it is even an issue. it was my choice…i would rather spend what little time i have with my daughter with her, not out socialising while she spends even more time with strangers/babysitters. you have no right elaine, to accuse Jana of this. > How do you think the little boy feels? Your child has a life and feelings > of his own. How do you think it feels to have no real daddy? If you had > one, picture your life only being able to see him on visiting days. If >you didn’t have a daddy, shame on you for laying this pain on another >little child.
how do you know that the child feels like he’s missing out?? it sounded to me that he had a very good relationship with his father still. i have seen more healthier and nicer behaved children from single parents who love their children than from so called proper families with a mother and a father still living together, and that family thinking they are doing the right thing by staying together just because thats what people think is right. i suppose you are one of those morons that thought murphy brown should have been banned for promoting single mothers! > Any "sacrificing" you did, you did for YOU. Your child doesn’t want you to "sacrifice". What a cruel burden to lay on a child.
CRAP!!!!! every parent…single or married knows that having a child will mean sacrifices of some kind. do you burden your children with the sacrifices YOU made???? so why lay guilt on other people i think you do not deserve to be a parent elaine, you have too much of your own growing up to do. I feel very sorry for your children…..they need love and caring and understanding, and i doubt you can supply them with that unconditionally….you can’t even support a fellow mother who needs help! there are a lot of words i would like to call you elaine, caring mother not being one of them <vent over> Becky
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> In the original post (I wish I had kept it) the mom indicated that the father is involved in the childs life…and many other family members are as well, so th > Stef
Stef…put returns in your posts please. — "DIDN’T I TEACH YOU TO LOVE ALL THINGS GREAT AND SMURF??" – papa smurf oOOO() The Phillips Three | ( Almost Heaven West Virginia __) ()OOOo (_ ) | jgs (__/
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I agree with you. Either Elaine didn’t fully express what she meant or it was a terribly unfair comment. I reread the original post and I didn’t see Jana say that her son says "nobody loves me". Also I have an 8 yr old step daughter and when she was 5-6 she often said things were going on that I would find out to be untrue. I would ask her what she would have for breakfast at her mommy’s and she would reply "nothing, my mommy doesn’t feed me breakfast", which I knew to be untrue. For whatever her reason she wanted my husband and I to feel that she was horribly neglected and starved at her moms house. She is now 8 and no longer does that sort of thing because she can communicate so much clearer and fully understand the importance of being truthful. It took a couple of years of growing up on her part, but that stage is gone. To the original poster – we did take my sdaughter to a child psychologist for a variety of reasons and that dr. used "art or drawing" therapy because of her age and it worked great – it was very helpful to get her to communicate her feelings. Good luck and pls ignore posters that are nasty in reply. There are a lot of caring and concerned parents just like you who post to this ng and who really want to help and support each other. — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I think this is a horribly unfair and unreasonable resoponse to a > legitimate request for help. Although I have no insite into the lying > problem, I howp that Jana will not believe everyone in the group is so > arrogantly judgemental as Elaine. > What did you do with your marriage? You separated from the child’s father > with a little boy to raise? You appear to have little understanding of > children or men. I think that it would be extraordinarily difficult to > tell you the truth or to be honest with you. Your problems are greater > than your son’s problems. > : I haven’t read this group so I don’t know what it covers, but I am seeking > : suggestions. > : I have a 6 yr old boy who is really good, always has been. Never given me > : any grief except for this issue. He fibs alot. I think it’s alot and I > : think of it as lying.
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: I won’t be revisiting this list so I would appreciate it if I wasn’t : discussed in future. I realize this is a tall order, but it’s rather : humiliating. I initially asked for private responses. Gee, if you’re not going to be reading this, I guess I can just go ahead and tell you the truth without fear of sending you into another tizzy. You act as if you really want to hear the truth from people, but in the infamous words of Jack Nicholson, "YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH". The main truth is that you seem to expect the world to dance to your beck and call. : Please accept my extreme gratitute to those of you who ‘defended’ me and : those of you who sent questions and advice to me privately. But I don’t : have a thick enough skin to participate in what happened here. Your delicate sensibilities don’t seem to preclude repeatedly accusing your tiny son of lying. : I don’t need to be told that having a child with someone you’re not : married to is a terrible thing to do to a child. Evidently, you do. So what were you thinking when you got pregnant with him? What were you thinking when you decided to raise him yourself without a full time father? : I am harder on myself : than anyone could ever be. You are. Or at least you go throught the motions to make people think that you are. Did you expect to get points for self flaggilation? : I have given over everything to parenting, and : gone way out of my way to foster the relationship with my sons father, : I make sure they are told about and invited to any Dr. appt, conferences, : all games, performances, parties. I offer up extra time also. Did you think you’d get extra points for giving up your personal life? Who asked you to do that? Where did you get the idea that your child would be better off if you had no personal life? Are you using the boy to hide from life? : To hear my son being called ‘lonely fatherless child’ has broken : me. How do you think the little boy feels? Your child has a life and feelings of his own. How do you think it feels to have no real daddy? If you had one, picture your life only being able to see him on visiting days. If you didn’t have a daddy, shame on you for laying this pain on another little child. > I have sacrificed my entire life and feelings and needs
Any "sacrificing" you did, you did for YOU. Your child doesn’t want you to "sacrifice". What a cruel burden to lay on a child. — Elaine Gallegos
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In the original post (I wish I had kept it) the mom indicated that the father is involved in the childs life…and many other family members are as well, so therefore he is not a lonely little boy…many children learn young how to manipulate (and I dont mean manipulate in a derogatory term), and saying *you don’t love me* is one of those manipulations. Lying, fibbing, whatever you want to call it is also a manipulation. We *all* manipulate in some form or another to get by in life. (For instance, Elaine’s know it all attitude is a manipulation for attention). This childs manipulation is also probably for attention, but only a qualified psychologist can say for sure. The worst problem his mother has, is having to deal with people like Elaine. Stef – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >: I think this is a horribly unfair and unreasonable resoponse to a >: legitimate request for help. Although I have no insite into the lying >: problem, I howp that Jana will not believe everyone in the group is so >: arrogantly judgemental as Elaine. > It’s not the child. It’s the parents. You have no insight into the >child’s >problem because he sounds like a perfectly normal, healthy 6 year old boy. >You seem to feel obligated to support the adults. Has it occured to you >that it’s not the child who is really in trouble here? > The child goes, "nobody loves me". The mom interprets this as a "lie". >How can it be a "lie" that the child feels unloved? He feels as he feels. >Mom is just hung up on this idea of "lying" and seems to show little >sympathy for a lonely, fatherless little boy…who happens to be her own >son. > Remember the old joke, "doctor, you must help my wife…she thinks she’s >a chicken"….. >– >Elaine Gallegos
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What on earth gives you the right to condem a woman for being separated?? It sounds like her son has a serious problem with telling lies, and it would be unfair to blame Jana for separating from the father. You have no idea why they separated, who’s to blame (if anyone) or anything. I think your reply was selfish and totally uncalled for. She was asking for help, not criticism. I certainly did not get the impression that it would be hard to be honest with her just from her post. It sound like it is YOU that has the problem. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > What did you do with your marriage? You separated from the child’s father > with a little boy to raise? You appear to have little understanding of > children or men. I think that it would be extraordinarily difficult to > tell you the truth or to be honest with you. Your problems are greater > than your son’s problems.
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Excuse me, but what do you know of the situation that gives you the authority to answer in this manner? Nothing in this womans post gives any indication of her understanding of little boys or men….WHat do you know of her problems to say they are greater than her sons? Her son obviously has a problem….and I certainly dont have the answer, but I wouldnt tell her she has worse problems, I know nothing of her life and neither do you!!! SJC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What did you do with your marriage? You separated from the child’s father >with a little boy to raise? You appear to have little understanding of >children or men. I think that it would be extraordinarily difficult to >tell you the truth or to be honest with you. Your problems are greater >than your son’s problems. >: I haven’t read this group so I don’t know what it covers, but I am seeking >: suggestions. >: I have a 6 yr old boy who is really good, always has been. Never given me >: any grief except for this issue. He fibs alot. I think it’s alot and I >: think of it as lying. (my mother gets after me for using that word) >: Anyway, he doesn’t seem to think anything of it – he tells his daddy I >: never let him watch tv, he tells me his daddy hides in his room watching >: bastketball all the time on visit days. He says so and so teacher said he >: could bring —- to school. None of the kids like him, nobody ever plays >: with him, he didn’t mess up the couch-he hasn’t even sat on it yet(there’s >: nobody else there)yet he sticks to his story, to the point of tears. >: These may seem petty, but there is a pattern and it scares me. He lies to >: get something he wants which can get the grownups in his life mad at each >: other. But the ones that scare me are the lies so I don’t get mad. What if >: he put one of my pills in his mouth, what if he makes up a story about >: being harrassed or about his father or I hurting him. >: It’s a pattern and its frequent. It’s been going on for years and we have >: done all kinds of things to try to change it. I feel like I can’t believe >: him when something might really be happening at school or whatever and >: that’s very hard. What if someone really was dangerous? Will I realize >: it’s not just another lie? >: I work the barest minimum so he isn’t in daycare after school, I don’t >: watch any TV of my own or do anything to distract from him when we’re >: home. I don’t have any dates or social life, he’s never been left with a >: babysitter at night (cuz I’m not with him in the day so I have no biz >: going away at night too) and his father, stepmo and little halfbro love >: him to pcs. He has grammas and all manner of other loving others – so it’s >: not that old lack of attention they ofter attribute lying behaviour to. >: Have any of you experienced this in the extreme? Can you help us? >: (private re: please, can’t read the boards – company computer acct) >: Thanks. >– >Elaine Gallegos
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I think this is a horribly unfair and unreasonable resoponse to a legitimate request for help. Although I have no insite into the lying problem, I howp that Jana will not believe everyone in the group is so arrogantly judgemental as Elaine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > What did you do with your marriage? You separated from the child’s father > with a little boy to raise? You appear to have little understanding of > children or men. I think that it would be extraordinarily difficult to > tell you the truth or to be honest with you. Your problems are greater > than your son’s problems. > : I haven’t read this group so I don’t know what it covers, but I am seeking > : suggestions. > : I have a 6 yr old boy who is really good, always has been. Never given me > : any grief except for this issue. He fibs alot. I think it’s alot and I > : think of it as lying.
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: I think this is a horribly unfair and unreasonable resoponse to a : legitimate request for help. Although I have no insite into the lying : problem, I howp that Jana will not believe everyone in the group is so : arrogantly judgemental as Elaine. It’s not the child. It’s the parents. You have no insight into the child’s problem because he sounds like a perfectly normal, healthy 6 year old boy. You seem to feel obligated to support the adults. Has it occured to you that it’s not the child who is really in trouble here? The child goes, "nobody loves me". The mom interprets this as a "lie". How can it be a "lie" that the child feels unloved? He feels as he feels. Mom is just hung up on this idea of "lying" and seems to show little sympathy for a lonely, fatherless little boy…who happens to be her own son. Remember the old joke, "doctor, you must help my wife…she thinks she’s a chicken"….. — Elaine Gallegos
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I haven’t read this group so I don’t know what it covers, but I am seeking suggestions. I have a 6 yr old boy who is really good, always has been. Never given me any grief except for this issue. He fibs alot. I think it’s alot and I think of it as lying. (my mother gets after me for using that word) Anyway, he doesn’t seem to think anything of it – he tells his daddy I never let him watch tv, he tells me his daddy hides in his room watching bastketball all the time on visit days. He says so and so teacher said he could bring —- to school. None of the kids like him, nobody ever plays with him, he didn’t mess up the couch-he hasn’t even sat on it yet(there’s nobody else there)yet he sticks to his story, to the point of tears. These may seem petty, but there is a pattern and it scares me. He lies to get something he wants which can get the grownups in his life mad at each other. But the ones that scare me are the lies so I don’t get mad. What if he put one of my pills in his mouth, what if he makes up a story about being harrassed or about his father or I hurting him. It’s a pattern and its frequent. It’s been going on for years and we have done all kinds of things to try to change it. I feel like I can’t believe him when something might really be happening at school or whatever and that’s very hard. What if someone really was dangerous? Will I realize it’s not just another lie? I work the barest minimum so he isn’t in daycare after school, I don’t watch any TV of my own or do anything to distract from him when we’re home. I don’t have any dates or social life, he’s never been left with a babysitter at night (cuz I’m not with him in the day so I have no biz going away at night too) and his father, stepmo and little halfbro love him to pcs. He has grammas and all manner of other loving others – so it’s not that old lack of attention they ofter attribute lying behaviour to. Have any of you experienced this in the extreme? Can you help us? (private re: please, can’t read the boards – company computer acct) Thanks.
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>3. Consequence lying without anger.
By using "consequence" as a verb, you presumably mean "punish"? So why not call a spade a spade? Taking Children Seriously (paper) journal To subscribe to the Taking Children Seriously list (non-coercive parenting "subscribe TCS [your email address]"
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arent: "Robert, come here. What did I tell you about > these cookies?" > :Robert: "Not to eat them, but I didn’t." arent: "What did I tell > you?" :Robert: "Not to eat them." :Parent: "Thank you! What did I > say I was saving them > for?" > :Robert: "Paul’s party." arent: "Right. This hacks me off. You hit > your room > right now and think things over." > :Robert: "But. . ." arent: "Where do you need to go to think things > over?" :Robert: "My room." arent: "Thank you!" > Sorry, Lois. I disagree again. > I say, the parent should have put the cookies where the child couldn’t > get them if the parent did not want the child to have them.
Sorry, Yoipu, I agree again with Lois, this isn’t about cookies, but about discipline. Fine if you’ve remembered perfectly to put the thing that child shouldn’t have away, but we aint all perfect, and so sometimes the child WILL take or get hold of something we don’t want them to have, for whatever good reason we may have. > I also think it’s wrong to coerce my version of reality on someone, > regardless of their age. I think it’s healthier to state what I > believe, and explain that I’m acting on my belief, rather than coercing > them to accept my version of reality.
I too believe in reasoning and explaining to a child, and did so with my present 28 and 26 year olds to wonderful affect–they feel they had an excellent upbringing, very fair, etc. However, there are those (rare) moments when the parent has to or decides to say NO, or DO THIS, and there’s no time for explanations, or one has already been given but is being questioned, etc etc. THEN, further explanation or "my belief" …. statements to the child just get received as a message that we parent’s aren’t all that convinced of our ground, and if they keep saying "Why?" or whineing or whatever, then they’ll win out by persisting over us. We need to give a clear, crisp firm but also soft and gentle NO, one that can’t be mistaken, one that is con- gruent with our best assertiveness, our body language. And sending the child to a spot in view "to think about it" till she/he is willing to comply (if there’s time) is an ideal alternative to the spanking and the abuse that you so rightly oppose. Have I convinced YOU, Yoipu? Larry — lArry M I T ‘63 |A N |N K SHERWOOD, NOTTINGHAM, ENGLAND |K
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arent: "Robert, come here. What did I tell you about : these cookies?" :Robert: "Not to eat them, but I didn’t." arent: "What did I tell you?" :Robert: "Not to eat them." arent: "Thank you! What did I say I was saving them : for?" :Robert: "Paul’s party." arent: "Right. This hacks me off. You hit your room : right now and think things over." :Robert: "But. . ." arent: "Where do you need to go to think things over?" :Robert: "My room." arent: "Thank you!" Sorry, Lois. I disagree again. I say, the parent should have put the cookies where the child couldn’t get them if the parent did not want the child to have them. I also think it’s wrong to coerce my version of reality on someone, regardless of their age. I think it’s healthier to state what I believe, and explain that I’m acting on my belief, rather than coercing them to accept my version of reality.
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HELP THE CHILDREN PRESENTS: PARENTING SOLUTIONS Special Thoughts on Raising Kids Lois Paul, Executive Director LYING Lying in childhood is a phase. However, if the phase is handled incorrectly by adults, the phase could develop into a life stance. Many parents unconsciously make lying an issue by asking, "Is that the truth?" when there is really no solid reason to doubt the child. Sometimes when a child is dejected or down, parents may say, understandably, "What’s wrong?" The child will say, not wanting to talk, "Oh, nothing." At this point it is not wise for the parent to say, "Is that the truth?" or, "Don’t you fib to me," but to say instead, "Well, if you want to talk, I’m here." The most common mistake parents make is to try and force their child to tell the truth when the parents already know the truth. This almost always ends in a control battle that neither parent nor child feels good about. Often the child continues to lie, getting deeper and deeper into negative feelings with the parent. Here’s how this parent avoids a control battle centered around stolen cookies by assuming the child knows the parent knows the truth of the situation: Parent: "Robert, come here. What did I tell you about these cookies?" Robert: "Not to eat them, but I didn’t." Parent: "What did I tell you?" Robert: "Not to eat them." Parent: "Thank you! What did I say I was saving them for?" Robert: "Paul’s party." Parent: "Right. This hacks me off. You hit your room right now and think things over." Robert: "But. . ." Parent: "Where do you need to go to think things over?" Robert: "My room." Parent: "Thank you!" If parents know the truth, and try to get their child to admit it, it is a hidden way of saying, "I know you are going to continue to lie to me." When a child las lied, restitution needs to be made. The consequence is handled coolly and as non-emotionally as possible so that when our children do tell the truth about a difficult issue, we can say, "Wow, I bet that was hard to say! Thanks for the truth!" The emotion we have as parents is best reserved for when the child says or does something right. Children can be "convicted" and consequenced on strong circumstantial evidence. Parents who find a candy wrapper in a child’s room and allow the child to protest that no candy has been eaten are almost asking for the child to lie. A wise parent says, "I always take empty candy wrappers as evidence a person has eaten one. I think you need to give the whole thing some thought. If you still need to think about it over dinner time, no big deal." Lastly, it is better to tell a child, "I don’t believe you," than to say. "You’re lying." It is easy for a child to argue he is telling the truth, but he can’t argue with the fact that you don’t believe him! THERE ARE FIVE BASIC RULES FOR HANDLING LYING BY CHILDREN: 1. Don’t try to force your child to tell the truth when you already know it! Generally speaking, trying to force the child – ever – to tell the truth is a control battle the adult will lose. 2. Give your child more positive emotion for being honest than negative emotion for lying. 3. Consequence lying without anger. 4. Children may be consequenced for circumstantial evidence. 5. It is better to tell children we don’t believe them than tell them they are lying.
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Lois E Paul, Executive Director Voice (209) 478-5585 Help The Children FAX (209) 478-5586 41 West Yokuts Avenue, Suite 107 TDD/TTY (209) 478-5685 HTTP://www.adopting.org/htc.html Mother to Helene (27), Erica (26), Thiago (16), Andy (10) and grandmother to Joshua (5), Jessica (5), and ? (due in Dec 96) - All Children Are Gifted…. They Just Open Their Presents At Different Times-
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