Question:
>However, how would YOU handle, other than with a method like 123, those >children who simply do not "get it"?
Although I haven’t used it yet, I would use a method I’ve seen work. It involves timeouts of 5 to 10 seconds combined with constant supervision and immediate intervention. You have to get very ‘in your face’ with the child. You can’t tell the child ‘no cookie’ from across the room, you have to get right in there, give the child your full undivided attention. You must let them know that from now on the rules have been changed. No long explanations, no threats and immediate reaction from you to the offending behavior. This also has to be combined with rewards for good behavior. For example most people leave their kids alone when they are quietly enjoying themselves. This is the time to tell them how good they are for playing by themselves and letting daddy read the paper. The rewards are as simple as a smile or a pat on the back, not material rewards. Its seems to be pretty much a constant feedback system. I saw this method used on a show called Real Families, I’m not sure if you get it in the States, although it seems to be set in Boston. A child psychologist helps people with discipline problems such as whining, crying, sleep and potty problems. What’s good about the show is that they install a camera inside the home for a month to show the before and after effects. The Web site is www.realfamilies.net (I’m just a viewer, no connection to them) I’ve only done a little research on it, but I believe the methods are derived from techniques used with autistic children. It is initially hard work, but the before and after footage is truly amazing. I would certainly consider it if I have hard to discipline children. >Haven’t you EVER heard "I’ve repeated >[...] until I was blue in face, [...] still doesn’t understand!!!". This >applies to a lot of children. In such situations, you explain that whining >is not apprepriate, the child goes on whining, you try to ignore the >whining, by saying something along the lines: I’ll listen to you once you >use your nice voice. The child goes on whining, often louder. Your nerves >are getting "very" frazzled.
Simply say "I know you would like a cookie now, but you can’t eat cookies before dinner, otherwise you won’t be able to eat all your dinner. You can have a drink of juice or a glass of milk, which do you want?". That’s it. No more explanations or repeating until your blue in the face. >The whining goes on. At this point, you either >give in and do whatever the child wants, or get really angry and start >doing some whining of your own, or some yelling. Either option is wrong:
You must ignore it, no giving in, no getting angry. This is the hard part. If the whining frazzles me, the problem is mine not the child’s. I must learn how to deal with it. I can deep breath, remove myself or keep reminding myself I’m helping my son. >the child learns that the longer he whines, the more likely he’ll succeed. >Or the situation gets so totally out of hand that the matter cannot be >resolved.
Never, ever give in to the whining, that way the child will never learn that he can succeed. I agree that if you do give in, the situation will get out of hand, you can’t send mixed messages. >What the 123 method offers is a type of bridge, for such situations. You >express that you don’t like whining, with a statement such as: I’ll listen >to you once you use your nice voice. If the child does a valiant effort at >speaking in a normal voice, mission accomplished. If the child keeps on >whining, you say "That’s 1". Now, children are told before you start using >the method, just what to expect. So, the child knows what "That’s 1" means. >You wait a little, if the child is still whining, you say "That’s 2". Now, >the child knows its his/her last chance. At first, the child will keep >going. However, after a few days, or a few weeks of consistantly using the >method, the child will know what is in store and will usually stop at this >point.
I don’t dispute that it stops the whining, I’m positive it does. What I’m disputing is what is being taught. Imagine someone using that technique on you. The only time I can envision adults using something similar to ‘that’s one’, ‘that’s two’ is in a hostile exchange. I can’t see how it teaches children to manage their wants and communication. From what I gather, you have to tell other people to use the 123magic method when dealing with your child, it doesn’t actually teach your child how to manage their own wants. Would it not be better to have the child come to the self realization; ‘Hey, whining does not get me anything, including cookies before dinner’ >BTW, a time out is NOT really a punishment. It is simply breathing time to >calm down and walk away from the situation.
I agree in and of itself time outs are not punishment. The way it’s used in the 123 method is basically, ‘if you don’t stop, something is going to happen to you’, that something is the time-out. It is arguable, but I think that is punishment. > if you teach a child to manage their wants when it comes to cookies > before dinner, that skill can then be used by the child in other > situations. >That’s very easy to say, not so easy to do.
Agreed, it’s hard work, I’m hoping that it turns into a habit for me so I can do it without thinking. If you simply want to stop children whining, then 123Magic is probably the easiest way to do it, maybe with the exception of spanking, which both of us don’t agree with. >The 123 method was developed >specifically for ADHDers.
Okay, I didn’t know that. If your child has a medical problem then forget all my viewpoints and opinions, they probably won’t work. I know that discipline methods that I may not agree with are perfectly acceptable when used in these circumstances. > I know that many people believe that this form of discipline consists > of days full of children whining and crying and soft parents trying to > reason and pleading with their children constantly, but it’s not. The > key (for me anyway) is consistency. >Yes, consistency is important. And teaching the difference between >acceptable and un-acceptable behaviors is important. The 123 method is just >of of those methods that allow the parents of the least compliant children >to reach that goal. You can be a very disciplined parent and still have a >very hard to discipline child.
If all else fails, then yes, 123magic should be used. There are too many situations to rule out all methods of discipline. Except spanking, I know of no situation that justifies that. Paul
Response:
Great Post!!! I think you grasped it beautifully. You probably did a much better job of explaining it than I did. I am glad that it is working for you. It has been just over two weeks for us now. I only have to count once or twice during the day, now. He knows that when mommy says no, it is the end of the subject. And when I do have to count, it is rare that it goes past one. He is a pretty good kid, but was really getting into the argumentative and whining stage. Are primary goal with our kids is to create within them independence and self-assurance. We give him as many choices as possible, example: Would you like peas or carrots for supper? Do you want mommy or daddy to put you to bed? The options aren’t whether or not to have vegetables for supper or whether or not he is going to bed, but he does get some choices. Giving them decisions in their own life eliminates many, many problems. But there are times when a child is argumentative or whiny just for the sake of being that way. They are usually trying to gain the upper hand over the parent, even in very small children. With the 123Magic giving us control over piddly little arguments, I have even been brave enough to ask why he doesn’t want to do something or why he wants something he knows he isn’t supposed to have. I say ‘brave enough’, because I know I won’t get the whiny or scream in my face response. "I WANT IT NOW!!!!" or "I don’t waaaaaaaaaant to geeeeeeet in the tuuuuuuuub." Sometimes I get an answer that I can agree with and he will get his way. I think this approach is teaching very good communication skills. Other times, he was just testing me and either starts the whining and I say "That’s one" or he just decides to do or not do what he is supposed to do. The older he gets the more I want to communicate with him and allow him to have more say in his life. But until he has more experience in life and can communicate closer to my level, I am the adult and I am the one in charge. I think this gives children a sense of security to know that they have a stable environment with set boundaries. They can influence their life to some degree, but that they are totally protected by their parents and do not have the responsibility of caring or fending for themselves. Okay, I am done rambling. Danielle did a much better job than I of explaining, so I will shut up now. Just wanted to say congrats and I am glad it is working for her. Heidi — Would you like a home-based business? Ask me what is working for me and my family.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What strikes me in particular is that although in the OP’s example the > child was told he could not have a cookie before dinner, the voiced > threat/warning "that’s one" didn’t relate to the cookie at all. > Like you, I was doubtful of the method, but decided to give it a try. The > method is especially good for those problem children, with whom traditional > discipline does not work. What the methods does is prevent the situation > from escalading to the point where EVERYONE, including the parents, is out > of control. "That’s 1" DOES refer to the cookie because the child has > already been told that he could’nt have the cookie, and he/she is STILL > going on. One of the mistakes we make is to fall right into the child’s > trap of arguing a non issue: the child obviously understand he/she can’t > have a cookie and there is no need to go on explaining WHY he/she can’t > have the cookie. > Presumably the child is being threatened with time out for whining, > yet he hasn’t been told this. > No, the child is being told, in no uncertain time, that the discussion has > ended and the he/she has another chance at letting it go, because, once you > reach "That’s 3", it is, automatically, "Take 5". Whining is only one of > the methods the child will try to get to you. Others include: threatening, > flattering, trying to break you down by how pitiful they are, etc. > Again, I can see this method being used > for children who have already been told over and over again not to > whine and continue to do so while knowing they must not, but I can’t > help thinking it would be more effective to ignore the whining in the > first place, consistently demonstrating it will achieve nothing and > remove the motivation. > I guess you don’t know my children: the whining will go on for ever if it > is ignored!!! This method is one of the best because of several things: > It is simple > It is consistant > It works > However, the most important reason, is that it takes place BEFORE the > situation gets out of hand and everyone, children and parents, have worked > themselves in a frenzy. > What more do you want. And it does not mean no talking to your children > about what is right and what is wrong, it means doing at a time other than > during the crisis, when EVERYONE is calmer and ready for the information. > I agree with you that this method is most likely preferred by those of us > who have difficult to discipline children (notice the fact that I didn’t > write UN-disciplined – I found out that it is perfectly possible to try > your best, with the best methods, to discipline some children, without > success), however, this method works for everyone. Some children get the > message and only have to be counted a few times, with others, the method > becomes a part of your life. However, most families reach a point, as in > ours, of only having to get to 1 or 2, and rarely getting to 3. > — > Danielle, > Maman to Marc-Andre – May 22, 1991 and Genevieve – Dec. 18, 1995 and > recently weaned > Writing from Canada > Parent-L Birth secretary > Visit my new web-page, view new pics of the kids, and, please, sign my > guest-book!! http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/home.html > My ICQ # is 6463692 > Canadian Special Education Chat Room – > http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/canspec.html > &canspec ICQ # 33710657
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->When you have listened to whining…all day…which is quite common for children >to do…you do what you have to survive and keep your sanity in tact. A 1-2-3 >method is better than a spank or yell in anger. IMO. If the child knows what >he is doing is wrong, and has been told before to stop the behaviour, he need >not be reminded again. >We are parents not martyrs. > IMHO, when we want to stop a child from whining, we should be teaching > that whining is inappropriate and that they should use their newly > acquired skills to communicate better or handle their wants. I don’t > think we should teach them that whining or wanting a cookie is ‘wrong’ > or ‘bad’ or something that is to be punished.
However, how would YOU handle, other than with a method like 123, those children who simply do not "get it"? Haven’t you EVER heard "I’ve repeated [...] until I was blue in face, [...] still doesn’t understand!!!". This applies to a lot of children. In such situations, you explain that whining is not apprepriate, the child goes on whining, you try to ignore the whining, by saying something along the lines: I’ll listen to you once you use your nice voice. The child goes on whining, often louder. Your nerves are getting "very" frazzled. The whining goes on. At this point, you either give in and do whatever the child wants, or get really angry and start doing some whining of your own, or some yelling. Either option is wrong: the child learns that the longer he whines, the more likely he’ll succeed. Or the situation gets so totally out of hand that the matter cannot be resolved. What the 123 method offers is a type of bridge, for such situations. You express that you don’t like whining, with a statement such as: I’ll listen to you once you use your nice voice. If the child does a valiant effort at speaking in a normal voice, mission accomplished. If the child keeps on whining, you say "That’s 1". Now, children are told before you start using the method, just what to expect. So, the child knows what "That’s 1" means. You wait a little, if the child is still whining, you say "That’s 2". Now, the child knows its his/her last chance. At first, the child will keep going. However, after a few days, or a few weeks of consistantly using the method, the child will know what is in store and will usually stop at this point. BTW, a time out is NOT really a punishment. It is simply breathing time to calm down and walk away from the situation. > I personally believe that the 123 method, and others such as yelling > and spanking, are popular because the reward is for the parent and is > instant. Using the 123 method to stop the child from whining for a > cookie before diner works for that situation for that person. Instead, > if you teach a child to manage their wants when it comes to cookies > before dinner, that skill can then be used by the child in other > situations.
That’s very easy to say, not so easy to do. The 123 method was developed specifically for ADHDers. Dr. Phelan’s son has ADHD. Among other issues, ADHDers are VERY impulsive and have a lot of trouble managing their wants, because they see them as needs. Since ADHD is hereditary, it is easy for the ADHD parent, especially if this parent is concentrating on getting the supper ready and his/her own ability for control is at its limit to loose it. What this method offers is a time to calm down and walk away from the situation BEFORE it escalattes. It does NOT only benefit the parents, because it gives the child a chance to control the result of the intervention: If I stop whatever I am doing at "That’s 1", I avoid time out. Even if I stop at "That’s 2", I avoid time out. Spanking is not, IMO, a form of discipline, though some use it as such. And yelling is simply a loss of control on the part of the parent. The 123 method is one method where EVERYONE concerned has a little bit of control. > I know that many people believe that this form of discipline consists > of days full of children whining and crying and soft parents trying to > reason and pleading with their children constantly, but it’s not. The > key (for me anyway) is consistency.
Yes, consistency is important. And teaching the difference between acceptable and un-acceptable behaviors is important. The 123 method is just of of those methods that allow the parents of the least compliant children to reach that goal. You can be a very disciplined parent and still have a very hard to discipline child. — Danielle, Maman to Marc-Andre – May 22, 1991 and Genevieve – Dec. 18, 1995 and recently weaned Writing from Canada Parent-L Birth secretary Visit my new web-page, view new pics of the kids, and, please, sign my guest-book!! http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/home.html My ICQ # is 6463692 Canadian Special Education Chat Room – http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/canspec.html &canspec ICQ # 33710657
Response:
> What strikes me in particular is that although in the OP’s example the > child was told he could not have a cookie before dinner, the voiced > threat/warning "that’s one" didn’t relate to the cookie at all.
Like you, I was doubtful of the method, but decided to give it a try. The method is especially good for those problem children, with whom traditional discipline does not work. What the methods does is prevent the situation from escalading to the point where EVERYONE, including the parents, is out of control. "That’s 1" DOES refer to the cookie because the child has already been told that he could’nt have the cookie, and he/she is STILL going on. One of the mistakes we make is to fall right into the child’s trap of arguing a non issue: the child obviously understand he/she can’t have a cookie and there is no need to go on explaining WHY he/she can’t have the cookie. > Presumably the child is being threatened with time out for whining, > yet he hasn’t been told this.
No, the child is being told, in no uncertain time, that the discussion has ended and the he/she has another chance at letting it go, because, once you reach "That’s 3", it is, automatically, "Take 5". Whining is only one of the methods the child will try to get to you. Others include: threatening, flattering, trying to break you down by how pitiful they are, etc. Again, I can see this method being used > for children who have already been told over and over again not to > whine and continue to do so while knowing they must not, but I can’t > help thinking it would be more effective to ignore the whining in the > first place, consistently demonstrating it will achieve nothing and > remove the motivation.
I guess you don’t know my children: the whining will go on for ever if it is ignored!!! This method is one of the best because of several things: It is simple It is consistant It works However, the most important reason, is that it takes place BEFORE the situation gets out of hand and everyone, children and parents, have worked themselves in a frenzy. What more do you want. And it does not mean no talking to your children about what is right and what is wrong, it means doing at a time other than during the crisis, when EVERYONE is calmer and ready for the information. I agree with you that this method is most likely preferred by those of us who have difficult to discipline children (notice the fact that I didn’t write UN-disciplined – I found out that it is perfectly possible to try your best, with the best methods, to discipline some children, without success), however, this method works for everyone. Some children get the message and only have to be counted a few times, with others, the method becomes a part of your life. However, most families reach a point, as in ours, of only having to get to 1 or 2, and rarely getting to 3. — Danielle, Maman to Marc-Andre – May 22, 1991 and Genevieve – Dec. 18, 1995 and recently weaned Writing from Canada Parent-L Birth secretary Visit my new web-page, view new pics of the kids, and, please, sign my guest-book!! http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/home.html My ICQ # is 6463692 Canadian Special Education Chat Room – http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/canspec.html &canspec ICQ # 33710657
Response:
>I agree with Paul. I don’t yet have children the right age to try this >stuff out on but I find the idea of trying to "control" my children >inherently hostile.
I see you have a 15 month old. that’s probably old enough to start. I have a 14 month old and I am using this ‘positive discipline’ stuff with good results. I’m a big believer in practicing. My best example was last month; I took my boy down to the mall a couple of times a week to practice walking around holding my hand. Although he didn’t like it at first and LOUDLY protested, it only took 3 weeks for him to learn. Now he offers me his hand when I put him down and I can even walk through the toy section without him want to pull everything of the shelves 
This weekends the big test though, Christmas shopping! Right now I’ve just started teaching the concept of ‘just a minute’ as well as starting to deal with his occasional hitting and biting. Paul
Response:
>When you have listened to whining…all day…which is quite common for children >to do…you do what you have to survive and keep your sanity in tact. A 1-2-3 >method is better than a spank or yell in anger. IMO. If the child knows what >he is doing is wrong, and has been told before to stop the behaviour, he need >not be reminded again. >We are parents not martyrs.
IMHO, when we want to stop a child from whining, we should be teaching that whining is inappropriate and that they should use their newly acquired skills to communicate better or handle their wants. I don’t think we should teach them that whining or wanting a cookie is ‘wrong’ or ‘bad’ or something that is to be punished. I personally believe that the 123 method, and others such as yelling and spanking, are popular because the reward is for the parent and is instant. Using the 123 method to stop the child from whining for a cookie before diner works for that situation for that person. Instead, if you teach a child to manage their wants when it comes to cookies before dinner, that skill can then be used by the child in other situations. I know that many people believe that this form of discipline consists of days full of children whining and crying and soft parents trying to reason and pleading with their children constantly, but it’s not. The key (for me anyway) is consistency. Paul
Response:
When you have listened to whining…all day…which is quite common for children to do…you do what you have to survive and keep your sanity in tact. A 1-2-3 method is better than a spank or yell in anger. IMO. If the child knows what he is doing is wrong, and has been told before to stop the behaviour, he need not be reminded again. We are parents not martyrs. — zipper Check out my website: http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I agree with Paul. I don’t yet have children the right age to try this >stuff out on but I find the idea of trying to "control" my children >inherently hostile. This sounds like a method that might be useful for >children who have already become undisciplined and out of control to >the point where they no longer listen or expect any consequences, but >not an idea to start out with. >What strikes me in particular is that although in the OP’s example the >child was told he could not have a cookie before dinner, the voiced >threat/warning "that’s one" didn’t relate to the cookie at all. >Presumably the child is being threatened with time out for whining, >yet he hasn’t been told this. Again, I can see this method being used >for children who have already been told over and over again not to >whine and continue to do so while knowing they must not, but I can’t >help thinking it would be more effective to ignore the whining in the >first place, consistently demonstrating it will achieve nothing and >remove the motivation. >Again, just my 0.2 since I have yet to go through this. >–Lisa Bell >SAHM/WAHM to Gabriella (15 months) >#2 due 22FEB2000 >>I’ll offer a different opinion on this. I don’t see this as trying to >>overly control a child or stifle his opinions. Its purpose, according >>to the examples, was to let the child know that whining or >>disobedience would not work. Don’t we all want our kids to learn >>that? >Yes, but you can do that without the threat/timeout part. Simply >explain and then don’t give them the cookie. The hard part is that you >have to listen to a load of whining, but done consistently the >whining decreases until the child has finally learned, ‘no cookies >before dinner’. After dinner, give the child a cookie and tons and >tons of praise for not having a cookie beforehand. As long as you >NEVER give a cookie before dinner, the child will learn. >> If we allow ourselves to get caught up in endless explanations to a >>child who is whining to get his way or deliberately refusing to obey a >>household rule, we will end up with a child who knows all he has to do >>is keep whining, and eventually we may give him what he wants just to >>keep him quiet. >Never reward whining. Never give endless explanations. If you give in >to whining, then forget it.
Response:
I agree with Paul. I don’t yet have children the right age to try this stuff out on but I find the idea of trying to "control" my children inherently hostile. This sounds like a method that might be useful for children who have already become undisciplined and out of control to the point where they no longer listen or expect any consequences, but not an idea to start out with. What strikes me in particular is that although in the OP’s example the child was told he could not have a cookie before dinner, the voiced threat/warning "that’s one" didn’t relate to the cookie at all. Presumably the child is being threatened with time out for whining, yet he hasn’t been told this. Again, I can see this method being used for children who have already been told over and over again not to whine and continue to do so while knowing they must not, but I can’t help thinking it would be more effective to ignore the whining in the first place, consistently demonstrating it will achieve nothing and remove the motivation. Again, just my 0.2 since I have yet to go through this. –Lisa Bell SAHM/WAHM to Gabriella (15 months) #2 due 22FEB2000 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’ll offer a different opinion on this. I don’t see this as trying to >overly control a child or stifle his opinions. Its purpose, according >to the examples, was to let the child know that whining or >disobedience would not work. Don’t we all want our kids to learn >that? >Yes, but you can do that without the threat/timeout part. Simply >explain and then don’t give them the cookie. The hard part is that you >have to listen to a load of whining, but done consistently the >whining decreases until the child has finally learned, ‘no cookies >before dinner’. After dinner, give the child a cookie and tons and >tons of praise for not having a cookie beforehand. As long as you >NEVER give a cookie before dinner, the child will learn. > If we allow ourselves to get caught up in endless explanations to a >child who is whining to get his way or deliberately refusing to obey a >household rule, we will end up with a child who knows all he has to do >is keep whining, and eventually we may give him what he wants just to >keep him quiet. >Never reward whining. Never give endless explanations. If you give in >to whining, then forget it.
Response:
> I am so curious, what would any of you do when your child refuses to put his >shoes on and you are running late for work?
Grab my son firmly by both upper arms and put my face right in front of his, about 6 inches away. In a firm, not overly stern, voice say "We are leaving the house. In order to leave the house you will have to put your shoes on. Do you want to put your shoes on yourself, or do you want me to do it for you?" If the refusal continues, I get the easiest pair of shoes to put on and put them on him, ignoring the protests. If necessary I have to pin him down while I put his shoes on. No more explanations. If he puts his shoes on he gets no end of praise, lots of playing, hugging and high fives as we walk out the door and becasue he was so fast at putting his shoes on we’ll have time to drive by the building site around the corner so he can see the big trucks. This will have to be repeated, but hopefully after a couple of times he will learn that it’s better to put the shoes on. If something like this appears to be an issue then I will have practice runs during evenings, weekends etc when there is no deadline, allowing me to put all my attention on dealing with the ’shoe problem’ Paul
Response:
>Dorothy all your suggestions are wonderful and are all things I do on a regular >basis. >However, there is the odd, time when a child is downright defiant, testing you. >These are the times I would use time outs or the 1-2-3 method. >Children lose it sometimes, parents lose it sometimes, this time to regain >control (whether I take the time out or my child does) does all of us good.
I’m not against time-outs as a method for both parent and child to regain control of their feelings. This can be done non-punitively if you give the child control over when he or she is ready to return – that way the child knows when he is back under control on his own – it’s not an arbitrary time limit. And I agree that sometimes, we need these time-outs ourselves and we should let our kids know it. We are human and have emotions and we shouldn’t be afraid to admit it in front of our children. >All of your suggestions sound very easy to do in type, however I have been in >situations where a child is totally out of control…and when a child >"willingly" defies a direct command, like…"do not hit me"
With a child (depending on age) who is hitting you, it seems to me that there is a more serious problem to deal with. If it’s a very young child who is simply frustrated and cannot deal with it because he doesn’t have the words, it is different than the problem of an older child who doesn’t know how to control his own anger. Most of the time with a child who was hitting or kicking, physical control done calmly is not out of place. Then you can give him a choice about stopping on his own or continuing to be prevented by your holding him. Lots here depends on the reasons and the age of the child though. >…he needs to learn that you will not accept that type of behaviour.
Agreed. >For instance, today my daughter kicked her brother because he was standing her >"blankie". She hurt him alot. She was sent to her room, because she made the >choice, even though she knew it was wrong…to kick him. Yes, she was upset >that her favorite blankie was being stood on, and her feelings were >acknowledged…however, that does not give her the right to kick her
brother. Absolutely true that she should not be allowed to hit her brother. >She was told to go to her room, to think about what she had done, and when she >was ready to come back and behave in a proper fashion, she was able to return. >She came down about 10 minutes later, with a sorry card she had made for her >brother.
That is a good indication that she was sorry about the action. So I have no problem particularly since you didn’t say go to your room for a specific period of time, but left the control up to her. She could have come back in 1 minute or 20. The point is that it was her choice. >We also discussed what she could have done differently, next time. She came up >with the idea that maybe she should keep her blankie in her room instead of her >room.
Again good. >I did not see her time out as a punishment but rather as a time for her think >calmly and regain control of the situation.
I agree, you used the time-out here in a non-punitive way, except that depending upon her age, I would not have stipulated thinking about her action (under 3, usually, kids are too distractible to think about the error unless you are talking with them about it, imo). Dorothy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->– >zipper >For lots of parenting tips and other useful information regarding childcare, >visit my website! >http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare/index.html
Response:
>I’ll offer a different opinion on this. I don’t see this as trying to >overly control a child or stifle his opinions. Its purpose, according >to the examples, was to let the child know that whining or >disobedience would not work. Don’t we all want our kids to learn >that?
Yes, but you can do that without the threat/timeout part. Simply explain and then don’t give them the cookie. The hard part is that you have to listen to a load of whining, but done consistently the whining decreases until the child has finally learned, ‘no cookies before dinner’. After dinner, give the child a cookie and tons and tons of praise for not having a cookie beforehand. As long as you NEVER give a cookie before dinner, the child will learn. > If we allow ourselves to get caught up in endless explanations to a >child who is whining to get his way or deliberately refusing to obey a >household rule, we will end up with a child who knows all he has to do >is keep whining, and eventually we may give him what he wants just to >keep him quiet.
Never reward whining. Never give endless explanations. If you give in to whining, then forget it.
Response:
Dorothy all your suggestions are wonderful and are all things I do on a regular basis. However, there is the odd, time when a child is downright defiant, testing you. These are the times I would use time outs or the 1-2-3 method. Children lose it sometimes, parents lose it sometimes, this time to regain control (whether I take the time out or my child does) does all of us good. All of your suggestions sound very easy to do in type, however I have been in situations where a child is totally out of control…and when a child "willingly" defies a direct command, like…"do not hit me"…he needs to learn that you will not accept that type of behaviour. For instance, today my daughter kicked her brother because he was standing her "blankie". She hurt him alot. She was sent to her room, because she made the choice, even though she knew it was wrong…to kick him. Yes, she was upset that her favorite blankie was being stood on, and her feelings were acknowledged…however, that does not give her the right to kick her brother. She was told to go to her room, to think about what she had done, and when she was ready to come back and behave in a proper fashion, she was able to return. She came down about 10 minutes later, with a sorry card she had made for her brother. We also discussed what she could have done differently, next time. She came up with the idea that maybe she should keep her blankie in her room instead of her room. I did not see her time out as a punishment but rather as a time for her think calmly and regain control of the situation. — zipper For lots of parenting tips and other useful information regarding childcare, visit my website! http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare/index.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
I pretty much follow Dorothy’s advice at first. I give him two choices as often as possible. I would have told him it was time to put his shoes on. If he said no, I would have said, "Well we are leaving now, you can walk with your shoes on or mommy can carry you with your shoes off and we will put them on in the car." If for some reason it escalates and my son is hitting and kicking me (though the 123 would have stopped this by stopping the argument before the growing of emotions on you or your child’s part), I would have said "We don’t hit. That’s three. Take five." I go right to three when it is something severe like hitting or pushing. I put him in his room and continue getting everything else ready. When it is time to let him out of his room. I go right back with what I started with. "Are you ready to get your shoes on now or do you want mommy to carry you?" Like I said, this technique is a great compliment to many other parenting styles. What it gives the parents is instant unquestionable control in situations where there isn’t time (emergency situations), reason (some stupid cookie argument), too much repetition (you have told them one hundred times not to do something and why) or the children have been out of control for so long (my sister’s children if any of you remember that post, they are doing great with this so far). I hope this answered some more questions. Thanx zipper and klavisha for the support. Heidi — Would you like a home-based business? Ask me what is working for me and my family.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Very well said…I agree with you on this one. > I am a mother first. It is my mandate as a parent to teach my child the proper > ways to behave in society. > I am so curious, what would any of you do when your child refuses to put his > shoes on and you are running late for work? He is kicking you and slapping your > face…do you talk, "honey, I need you to put your shoes on…please…I am > going to be late…yadda yadda yadda//// > Or do you? I told you to put your shoes on. Do it now. That is one…etc. and > a time out when needed. > Kids don’t inherit control, nor do they inherit self responsibility, these are > things that need to be taught, and yes example and talking are the best ways to > teach them, but when your child is out of control and acting defiantly, you need > to be the one in control. > If my child is hitting someone, they are firmly reminded that "hitting is wrong" > "We do not hit anyone", then they have to pay the price for their action. They > chose to hit, made the wrong choice. If you as an adult, make wrong choices, > there are usually prices to pay for it; the law, fines etc. whatever…why > should it be different for kids. What better way to teach them how society > works. You make mistakes, sometimes bad choices have consequence. It is cruel > to teach your kids that there are no consequences to bad choices. These are the > ones who disrespect the law, or have no respect for authority figures. > And yes, I have wonderful and well behaved children who are respectful and > peaceful. (Actually, both of my children won Student of the Month in two > consecutive months this year at school) And I am proud, after all society > reflects childrens behaviour as a direct result of parenting. Not necessarily > the right thing but they do. > — > zipper > For lots of parenting tips and other useful information regarding childcare, > visit my website! > http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare/index.html >(Long again, sorry.) >I was beginning to feel like a bad parent for disciplining my children. >Maybe that is the problem today with many children????? (I don’t know just >guessing.) Parents are too wrapped up in making sure that everyone thinks >they are good parents that they follow the trends in parenting and over talk >their kids. I almost went for it myself. I was thinking I have this >wonderful technique that works, but somehow I am injuring my children. >Jeez, I better stop. >I thought about that and what the other posters said alot last night. Yes >children should be guided through life as much as possible. They should be >loved and the positive should always be focused on. I think this technique >allows for all of that. >Here is an excerpt from another poster in another thread that you all have >agreed was good and I will explain how it fits with this. >-So few suggestions for parents are posted here because of the >-propaganda mongers (the "cohort"). So here are some: >-1) Try to redirect the child. >Sending to their room for five minutes. >-2) Spend quality time. >Doesn’t really apply to this technique. This is something that you would be >doing when the child was behaving. The better behaved the more time the >whole family can spend together and really enjoy it. >-3) Focus on the positive behaviors (reinforce appropriate behavior) >This technique totally takes the focus off of negative behavior. If the >child is misbehaving in a way that has been discussed before, he is simply >removed from the situation. The only time you would really be focusing on >them from this point on would be for the positive behavior. >-4) Network with other parents for non-violent solutions (avoid this >-newsgroup because it rarely offers help or support-just advances its >-singular agenda and knocks those who don’t tow their "party line") >This technique is so easy to share with others and so easy to apply. You >could have your whole playgroup doing it after one play date. >-5) Set up learning/fun activities that keep the child actively >-involved. >Again this doesn’t really apply to this technique, but something that is >lots of fun for the whole family or for that special one-on-one bonding time >between individual children. >-6) Teach negotiation skills and help them practice these skills (needs >-to be age appropriate). >I think this technique lends itself perfectly to building these kinds of >skills. It quickly teaches children better ways of expressing themselves >inorder to be understood and to negotiated a means to their ends. >-7) Role play #6 (what ifs..) >This doesn’t really fit in directly with the technique, but a great way to >expand this technique. >-8) Take a time-out for yourself. >Excellent advice for anytime. Not needed as often now, after using this >technique. >-9) Change the child’s environment if it appears to be contributing to >-the problem (time away). >Easily established with the five minute timeout in room. >-10) Practice a relaxation technique that works for you when you feel >-your temper getting the best of you (this will model appropriate >-behavior for the child too). >Great advice. I still need to do this for arguments with my husband. >Yes we need to teach our children. But I am not about to sit and have a >discussion on ethics and morality with my 3 year old. Not only does he not >have the vocabulary, but he doesn’t have the experiences yet to relate to >almost anything I would say to him. And the experience thing goes for >nearly all children under the age of 12. >The older a child gets yes the more say they should have in their life and >the more you can discuss and explain with them. But I am not about to argue >with a small child for even a few minutes over a cookie, a toy, or whatever. >At our play group the other day, a young mother was there with her 2yo. >This child happened to push over my 1yo. The woman grabbed her child, told >him what he did wrong, why he did wrong, the baby could get hurt, that he >better be sorry, and that he needed to say he was sorry. By the end of i t >the child was pulling to get away from her, me and my child. He didn’t >care,because he is to little to understand all of that. >He would have understood. "No, we don’t push. That’s three. We are taking >five." Then go and sit down for a few minutes away from the rest of the >group. >This is how our adult society works. Why can’t we apply it to our children? >If you got pulled over by a cop for speeding, do you think he is going to >sit there and explain to you why you shouldn’t speed. No, he is going to >give you a ticket. Will that stop you from speeding in the future? If you >get caught often enough maybe, but probably not. It will however, stop you >from going a certain speed over the limit. I doubt many of you here ever >drive 15+ mph over. >Our whole society is based on this. We even have in our law books the 123 >and your out plan. Why is it such a crime to use it on our children? >I want my children to learn early on that there are consequences for their >actions. I will teach them what is wrong and why, but also that wrong has a >price. And going to your room, full of toys and books isn’t that high of a >price to pay. I mean really. >Heidi >– >Would you like a home-based business? Ask me what is working for me and my >family. >> I’ll offer a different opinion on this. I don’t see this as trying to >> overly control a child or stifle his opinions. Its purpose, according >> to the examples, was to let the child know that whining or >> disobedience would not work. Don’t we all want our kids to learn >> that? The parent explained the rule to the child – that cookies were >> not going to be served just before dinner, or that toys in the store >> were not to be
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Response:
> This is the same old punitive and controlling approach though a bit better > than spanking.
It is a *whole lot* better than spanking in my opinion. Spanking is humiliating and scary for children. Sending them to their rooms may not be the ideal, but it is way better. It teaches nothing except that the parent has total control > over the child’s life and actions. The aim is not control of behavior nor > power over our children, but teaching the child to think about his behavior > and to take an ethical stance on all things. > Producing children who don’t follow the herd, who think and choose to > be self-disciplined is considerably more complicated than using a > technique that controls them.
I think you might be painting this as a little too black and white though. It is possible to give your children a lot of freedom and choices, and encourage their individuality, and explain why certain things must happen, and yet still, at times, use something like 1 2 3 Magic. Sometimes parents just need to get a certain behavior under control. This doesn’t mean they want to control every aspect of their children’s existence and turn them into little automatons. It means they tried choices and discussion and explanations, and still the child kicks her sister or whatever. We use 1 2 3 Magic very sparingly. We are more the Talking So Kids Will Listen . . . types. But it does work well for stubborn bad habits. 1 2 3 Magic doesn’t say you shouldn’t explain and discuss and involve the children in deciding what the house rules are. You should do these things. Just not when they are in the middle of misbehaving. They can’t hear it then. — "We all love to instruct, though we can teach only what is not worth knowing." Jane Austen (Pride and Prejudice)
Response:
>Very well said…I agree with you on this one. >I am a mother first. It is my mandate as a parent to teach my child the proper >ways to behave in society.
But how do you teach this. It seems to me that we must behave towards our children with the same respect we want them to show us. > I am so curious, what would any of you do when your child refuses to put his >shoes on and you are running late for work?
Did you ask the child nicely – say please as you want him to do when he asks you to do something? I might say to my child – do you want to put your shoes on by yourself or would you like me to help you put them on? This generally defuses the situation, focuses the child’s attention on the task and gives him the choice and the power over which *way* he will do the requested task. It doesn’t let him leave the task undone, but it empowers him to do it his own way. > He is kicking you and slapping your face…do you talk, > "honey, I need you to put your shoes on…please…I am >going to be late…yadda yadda yadda////
I never allowed my children to hit me. You take the child’s hand and say "I won’t allow you to hurt me or to hurt yourself." You may also want to show the child how to touch you with gentle hands – it’s calming to the child. It helps teach them the good behavior and changes the focus of both you and the child. You can hold the child firmly but not hurt him and not allow him to hurt you either. >Or do you? I told you to put your shoes on. Do it now. That is one…etc. and >a time out when needed.
Nope. You remain calm, give the child a choice of what he can do. If you are running late, you might say "I’m sorry, but we are late. That’s my fault because I got up late, but it means that I’m going to have to put your shoes on today or pick you up and put them on in the car. Which would you like me to do?" Then abide by the child’s choice in this matter. >Kids don’t inherit control, nor do they inherit self responsibility, these are >things that need to be taught, and yes example and talking are the best ways to >teach them, but when your child is out of control and acting defiantly, you need >to be the one in control. >If my child is hitting someone, they are firmly reminded that "hitting is wrong" >"We do not hit anyone", then they have to pay the price for their action. They >chose to hit, made the wrong choice.
With a toddler or preschooler, you begin to teach this, but you do not have to punish, simply teach them the right way to touch people, give them words to use when they have a conflict and also help them think of ways to solve the problem with the other child. With an older child, find ways for the child to make amends to the other child. Make sure that the child who hit sees that the other child was hurt and does something to make up for it. The child who hit might want to comfort the victim and then might decide to have him come and play for example. The other part of this is to allow the two children to talk about what happened and to figure out ways to avoid the situation. Role playing and books help with older kids. Be constantly on the lookout for situations in which you can ask your child, how could that problem have been solved? Did hitting help? What could we do instead? > If you as an adult, make wrong choices, >there are usually prices to pay for it; the law, fines etc. whatever…why >should it be different for kids. What better way to teach them how society >works. You make mistakes, sometimes bad choices have consequence. It is cruel >to teach your kids that there are no consequences to bad choices. These are the >ones who disrespect the law, or have no respect for authority figures.
There are enough consequences that are natural that children will understand them easily. If you fall down, you scrape your knee is a consequence of your actions. If you pull a toy away from Tommy, you may break the toy is a consequence of your actions. If you throw your radio, you will break it is a consequence of your actions. If you take turns with Anna, she will want to play with you more often is a consequence of your actions, too. >And yes, I have wonderful and well behaved children who are respectful and >peaceful. (Actually, both of my children won Student of the Month in two >consecutive months this year at school) And I am proud, after all society >reflects childrens behaviour as a direct result of parenting. Not necessarily >the right thing but they do.
I’m glad that your kids are well-behaved, but that is not the be-all and end-all of parenting. We are aiming for independent evaluation of actions. Every child must be able to solve the problems he faces for himself. Aside from all other things, positive methods make life in a family with children much more pleasant for the entire family. Try it. It works. It is calming and pleasant. The key is consistency and modelling respect for everyone in the family. Dorothy
Response:
(Long again, sorry.) I was beginning to feel like a bad parent for disciplining my children. Maybe that is the problem today with many children????? (I don’t know just guessing.) Parents are too wrapped up in making sure that everyone thinks they are good parents that they follow the trends in parenting and over talk their kids. I almost went for it myself. I was thinking I have this wonderful technique that works, but somehow I am injuring my children. Jeez, I better stop. I thought about that and what the other posters said alot last night. Yes children should be guided through life as much as possible. They should be loved and the positive should always be focused on. I think this technique allows for all of that. Here is an excerpt from another poster in another thread that you all have agreed was good and I will explain how it fits with this. -So few suggestions for parents are posted here because of the -propaganda mongers (the "cohort"). So here are some: -1) Try to redirect the child. Sending to their room for five minutes. -2) Spend quality time. Doesn’t really apply to this technique. This is something that you would be doing when the child was behaving. The better behaved the more time the whole family can spend together and really enjoy it. -3) Focus on the positive behaviors (reinforce appropriate behavior) This technique totally takes the focus off of negative behavior. If the child is misbehaving in a way that has been discussed before, he is simply removed from the situation. The only time you would really be focusing on them from this point on would be for the positive behavior. -4) Network with other parents for non-violent solutions (avoid this -newsgroup because it rarely offers help or support-just advances its -singular agenda and knocks those who don’t tow their "party line") This technique is so easy to share with others and so easy to apply. You could have your whole playgroup doing it after one play date. -5) Set up learning/fun activities that keep the child actively -involved. Again this doesn’t really apply to this technique, but something that is lots of fun for the whole family or for that special one-on-one bonding time between individual children. -6) Teach negotiation skills and help them practice these skills (needs -to be age appropriate). I think this technique lends itself perfectly to building these kinds of skills. It quickly teaches children better ways of expressing themselves inorder to be understood and to negotiated a means to their ends. -7) Role play #6 (what ifs..) This doesn’t really fit in directly with the technique, but a great way to expand this technique. -8) Take a time-out for yourself. Excellent advice for anytime. Not needed as often now, after using this technique. -9) Change the child’s environment if it appears to be contributing to -the problem (time away). Easily established with the five minute timeout in room. -10) Practice a relaxation technique that works for you when you feel -your temper getting the best of you (this will model appropriate -behavior for the child too). Great advice. I still need to do this for arguments with my husband. Yes we need to teach our children. But I am not about to sit and have a discussion on ethics and morality with my 3 year old. Not only does he not have the vocabulary, but he doesn’t have the experiences yet to relate to almost anything I would say to him. And the experience thing goes for nearly all children under the age of 12. The older a child gets yes the more say they should have in their life and the more you can discuss and explain with them. But I am not about to argue with a small child for even a few minutes over a cookie, a toy, or whatever. At our play group the other day, a young mother was there with her 2yo. This child happened to push over my 1yo. The woman grabbed her child, told him what he did wrong, why he did wrong, the baby could get hurt, that he better be sorry, and that he needed to say he was sorry. By the end of it the child was pulling to get away from her, me and my child. He didn’t care,because he is to little to understand all of that. He would have understood. "No, we don’t push. That’s three. We are taking five." Then go and sit down for a few minutes away from the rest of the group. This is how our adult society works. Why can’t we apply it to our children? If you got pulled over by a cop for speeding, do you think he is going to sit there and explain to you why you shouldn’t speed. No, he is going to give you a ticket. Will that stop you from speeding in the future? If you get caught often enough maybe, but probably not. It will however, stop you from going a certain speed over the limit. I doubt many of you here ever drive 15+ mph over. Our whole society is based on this. We even have in our law books the 123 and your out plan. Why is it such a crime to use it on our children? I want my children to learn early on that there are consequences for their actions. I will teach them what is wrong and why, but also that wrong has a price. And going to your room, full of toys and books isn’t that high of a price to pay. I mean really. Heidi — Would you like a home-based business? Ask me what is working for me and my family.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ll offer a different opinion on this. I don’t see this as trying to > overly control a child or stifle his opinions. Its purpose, according > to the examples, was to let the child know that whining or > disobedience would not work. Don’t we all want our kids to learn > that? The parent explained the rule to the child – that cookies were > not going to be served just before dinner, or that toys in the store > were not to be touched. This doesn’t sound like a case of kids > asking why the parents made such rules. Certainly I think kids have a > right to know why. This 1-2-3 method, however, seems to me to be for > use when a child does know the rule but simply doesn’t want to follow > it. Perhaps the description of how it works did leave out that rules > should be explained to kids beforehand, so they know what to expect > from us. > If we allow ourselves to get caught up in endless explanations to a > child who is whining to get his way or deliberately refusing to obey a > household rule, we will end up with a child who knows all he has to do > is keep whining, and eventually we may give him what he wants just to > keep him quiet. We need to teach him that the rule must be followed, > whether it is NO WHINING after Mom has said no or NO TOUCHING items > at the store after Mom has said no, or he will be removed from the > situation. Is that trying to exert control over our children? Well, > yes. And that is our job as parents. Kids need some amount of > control. They need to learn to follow rules. That does not mean we > don’t explain why we’ve made a rule or that we don’t listen > respectfully to their opinions. It does mean we don’t listen or > respond to whining, and we don’t let them deliberately disobey the > rules. I’ve seen too many parents pleading with their kids to > behave but never really requiring that they do, and talking talking > talking at them, and of course the kids just tune them out and ignore > them. > And now I am done talking talking talking. >Okay…I’ve got to agree here with both Paula and Dorothy. This type of >"discipline" just didn’t settle well with me when I read it, primarily >because imo, control is an illusion, especially when it comes to raising >children. Just my 2 cents. >– >Sarah-mom to Brandon (20 mos) & Camryn (she’s 5 mos) >Come visit us at http://home.maine.rr.com/brancam/home.htm >>x-no-archive: yes >>Dorothy Sacks wrote re the "1-2-3Magic" method of discipline: >>>This is the same old punitive and controlling approach though a bit better >>>than spanking. It teaches nothing except that the parent has total >control >>>over the child’s life and actions. The aim is not control of behavior nor >>>power over our children, but teaching the child to think about his >behavior >>>and to take an ethical stance on all things. >>>Producing children who don’t follow the herd, who think and choose to >>>be self-disciplined is considerably more complicated than using a >>>technique that controls them. >>I totally agree with you, Dorothy! *gasp* The "1-2-3" technique bothers >>me…it’s so disrespectful of a child’s feelings and the human need to know >>*why* a thing is the way it is…it’s just so "cold" in a way. (However, if >>physical abuse is the alternative, then of course it’s preferable.) I’ve >always >>explained things to my daughters (okay, okay…*over*explained in many >cases!), >>and I’m very pleased with their behavior overall. >>Paula
Response:
Very well said…I agree with you on this one. I am a mother first. It is my mandate as a parent to teach my child the proper ways to behave in society. I am so curious, what would any of you do when your child refuses to put his shoes on and you are running late for work? He is kicking you and slapping your face…do you talk, "honey, I need you to put your shoes on…please…I am going to be late…yadda yadda yadda//// Or do you? I told you to put your shoes on. Do it now. That is one…etc. and a time out when needed. Kids don’t inherit control, nor do they inherit self responsibility, these are things that need to be taught, and yes example and talking are the best ways to teach them, but when your child is out of control and acting defiantly, you need to be the one in control. If my child is hitting someone, they are firmly reminded that "hitting is wrong" "We do not hit anyone", then they have to pay the price for their action. They chose to hit, made the wrong choice. If you as an adult, make wrong choices, there are usually prices to pay for it; the law, fines etc. whatever…why should it be different for kids. What better way to teach them how society works. You make mistakes, sometimes bad choices have consequence. It is cruel to teach your kids that there are no consequences to bad choices. These are the ones who disrespect the law, or have no respect for authority figures. And yes, I have wonderful and well behaved children who are respectful and peaceful. (Actually, both of my children won Student of the Month in two consecutive months this year at school) And I am proud, after all society reflects childrens behaviour as a direct result of parenting. Not necessarily the right thing but they do. — zipper For lots of parenting tips and other useful information regarding childcare, visit my website! http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare/index.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >(Long again, sorry.) >I was beginning to feel like a bad parent for disciplining my children. >Maybe that is the problem today with many children????? (I don’t know just >guessing.) Parents are too wrapped up in making sure that everyone thinks >they are good parents that they follow the trends in parenting and over talk >their kids. I almost went for it myself. I was thinking I have this >wonderful technique that works, but somehow I am injuring my children. >Jeez, I better stop. >I thought about that and what the other posters said alot last night. Yes >children should be guided through life as much as possible. They should be >loved and the positive should always be focused on. I think this technique >allows for all of that. >Here is an excerpt from another poster in another thread that you all have >agreed was good and I will explain how it fits with this. >-So few suggestions for parents are posted here because of the >-propaganda mongers (the "cohort"). So here are some: >-1) Try to redirect the child. >Sending to their room for five minutes. >-2) Spend quality time. >Doesn’t really apply to this technique. This is something that you would be >doing when the child was behaving. The better behaved the more time the >whole family can spend together and really enjoy it. >-3) Focus on the positive behaviors (reinforce appropriate behavior) >This technique totally takes the focus off of negative behavior. If the >child is misbehaving in a way that has been discussed before, he is simply >removed from the situation. The only time you would really be focusing on >them from this point on would be for the positive behavior. >-4) Network with other parents for non-violent solutions (avoid this >-newsgroup because it rarely offers help or support-just advances its >-singular agenda and knocks those who don’t tow their "party line") >This technique is so easy to share with others and so easy to apply. You >could have your whole playgroup doing it after one play date. >-5) Set up learning/fun activities that keep the child actively >-involved. >Again this doesn’t really apply to this technique, but something that is >lots of fun for the whole family or for that special one-on-one bonding time >between individual children. >-6) Teach negotiation skills and help them practice these skills (needs >-to be age appropriate). >I think this technique lends itself perfectly to building these kinds of >skills. It quickly teaches children better ways of expressing themselves >inorder to be understood and to negotiated a means to their ends. >-7) Role play #6 (what ifs..) >This doesn’t really fit in directly with the technique, but a great way to >expand this technique. >-8) Take a time-out for yourself. >Excellent advice for anytime. Not needed as often now, after using this >technique. >-9) Change the child’s environment if it appears to be contributing to >-the problem (time away). >Easily established with the five minute timeout in room. >-10) Practice a relaxation technique that works for you when you feel >-your temper getting the best of you (this will model appropriate >-behavior for the child too). >Great advice. I still need to do this for arguments with my husband. >Yes we need to teach our children. But I am not about to sit and have a >discussion on ethics and morality with my 3 year old. Not only does he not >have the vocabulary, but he doesn’t have the experiences yet to relate to >almost anything I would say to him. And the experience thing goes for >nearly all children under the age of 12. >The older a child gets yes the more say they should have in their life and >the more you can discuss and explain with them. But I am not about to argue >with a small child for even a few minutes over a cookie, a toy, or whatever. >At our play group the other day, a young mother was there with her 2yo. >This child happened to push over my 1yo. The woman grabbed her child, told >him what he did wrong, why he did wrong, the baby could get hurt, that he >better be sorry, and that he needed to say he was sorry. By the end of it >the child was pulling to get away from her, me and my child. He didn’t >care,because he is to little to understand all of that. >He would have understood. "No, we don’t push. That’s three. We are taking >five." Then go and sit down for a few minutes away from the rest of the >group. >This is how our adult society works. Why can’t we apply it to our children? >If you got pulled over by a cop for speeding, do you think he is going to >sit there and explain to you why you shouldn’t speed. No, he is going to >give you a ticket. Will that stop you from speeding in the future? If you >get caught often enough maybe, but probably not. It will however, stop you >from going a certain speed over the limit. I doubt many of you here ever >drive 15+ mph over. >Our whole society is based on this. We even have in our law books the 123 >and your out plan. Why is it such a crime to use it on our children? >I want my children to learn early on that there are consequences for their >actions. I will teach them what is wrong and why, but also that wrong has a >price. And going to your room, full of toys and books isn’t that high of a >price to pay. I mean really. >Heidi >– >Would you like a home-based business? Ask me what is working for me and my >family. > I’ll offer a different opinion on this. I don’t see this as trying to > overly control a child or stifle his opinions. Its purpose, according > to the examples, was to let the child know that whining or > disobedience would not work. Don’t we all want our kids to learn > that? The parent explained the rule to the child – that cookies were > not going to be served just before dinner, or that toys in the store > were not to be touched. This doesn’t sound like a case of kids > asking why the parents made such rules. Certainly I think kids have a > right to know why. This 1-2-3 method, however, seems to me to be for > use when a child does know the rule but simply doesn’t want to follow > it. Perhaps the description of how it works did leave out that rules > should be explained to kids beforehand, so they know what to expect > from us. > If we allow ourselves to get caught up in endless explanations to a > child who is whining to get his way or deliberately refusing to obey a > household rule, we will end up with a child who knows all he has to do > is keep whining, and eventually we may give him what he wants just to > keep him quiet. We need to teach him that the rule must be followed, > whether it is NO WHINING after Mom has said no or NO TOUCHING items > at the store after Mom has said no, or he will be removed from the > situation. Is that trying to exert control over our children? Well, > yes. And that is our job as parents. Kids need some amount of > control. They need to learn to follow rules. That does not mean we > don’t explain why we’ve made a rule or that we don’t listen > respectfully to their opinions. It does mean we don’t listen or > respond to whining, and we don’t let them deliberately disobey the > rules. I’ve seen too many parents pleading with their kids to > behave but never really requiring that they do, and talking talking > talking at them, and of course the kids just tune them out and ignore > them. > And now I am done talking talking talking. > >Okay…I’ve got to agree here with both Paula and Dorothy. This type of > >"discipline" just didn’t settle well with me when I read it, primarily > >because imo, control is an illusion, especially when it comes to raising > >children. Just my 2 cents.
… read more »
Response:
We tried this method when our girls were young. It can be effective. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > There have been alot of posts lately about our little ones wrecking havoc in > our homes. I posted this a while back at the end of a thread, so many of > you may have missed it. > I found a fascinating video at the library the other day called 123Magic by > Dr. Thomas D. Phelan Ph.D. I started using his technique right after a saw > the video. I have been using it now for over a week and the results are > nothing short of a miracle. I have not yelled or raised my voice at my > children in a week and a half. It has been GREAT!!!! > This technique is geared towards children ages 2-12. Dr. Phelan stated that > the more difficult the child the better this technique seems to work. He > even stated that it is perfect for children with AD(H)D, ODD, LD or many > other behavioral type problems or diseases. > It is a version of the "I am going to count to three." It is a bit more > complicated than that AND actually works. I know you are sitting there > saying "I have tried counting. I have tried timeout. I have tried taking > away privileges, etc. And nothing works." > His theory is that we all try and treat our children like little adults. > When they do something wrong, we first try and TALK to them. Then we REASON > with them. Next, we try to PUNISH them. Then we YELL. And then some of us > even HIT. So as it goes we Talk, Reason, Punish, Yell, Hit. Think about > your own situations and see if this isn’t exactly what is going on in your > home. > The problem with this approach is not only doesn’t it work, but the children > have all the control. Not only have they probably gotten their way (if not > good for you), but they have defiantly gotten you to go through a whole > series of an unpleasant episode. For a small person, this is quite alot of > power to get an adult all upset. It makes them feel not only more > important, but bigger. > The idea behind 123Magic is to take away all of that power. If your kids > are doing something wrong, say nagging you for a cookie before dinner. > This is sort of how the scenario would go. > "Mommy I want a cookie. I’m huuuuuungry." > "No, it’s almost time for dinner." > "Pleeeeeeaaaaase" > "That’s one." (No emotion. No explanation. No other words, except ‘That’s > one.’) > "Come on. I’m starved. Give me something." > "That’s two." > "All I want is a stinking cookie for crying out loud." > "That’s three. Take five." (Now the child would get a five minute time out > in their room. You explain nothing. You don’t talk about what the child > did. You just march him off to his room.) > If this is done consistently, for everything, from everyone in your home and > for all the rules. It works just like Magic. I couldn’t believe it with my > own child. It is great! There is a little more to it than this, so the > video or book would be the way to go. Like how does this apply to homework, > at the grocery, if the kids are fighting, what if they won’t go to their > room, etc. The video explains it all. > What I like best about it is that it is real easy to explain to > grandparents, neighbors, babysitters. And it puts everyone on the same wave > length of how to monitor your children. > If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask. You can e-mail me at > — > Would you like a home-based business? Ask me what is working for me and my > family.
Response:
I also forgot on the other post. This information didn’t *cost* me anything. I got the video and the book from the public library. Heidi — Would you like a home-based business? Ask me what is working for me and my family.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m sure that this has been gone through before, but this method just > uses threats to contol a child. It will not teach a child why she > should not whine for cookie, just that she shouldn’t whine while > mommys around. > There is no magic bullet, teaching children is long hard work! > For a more sensible (IMHO) approach, check out > "Helping Your Child Learn Responsible Behavior with activities" > http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content/behavior.html > U.S. Department of Education > and > "How to Teach Your Children Discipline" > http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content/discipline.3.19.html > Marilyn E. Gootman, University of Georgia > Both free! > Paul > — >There have been alot of posts lately about our little ones wrecking havoc in >our homes. I posted this a while back at the end of a thread, so many of >you may have missed it. >I found a fascinating video at the library the other day called 123Magic by >Dr. Thomas D. Phelan Ph.D. I started using his technique right after a saw >the video. I have been using it now for over a week and the results are >nothing short of a miracle. I have not yelled or raised my voice at my >children in a week and a half. It has been GREAT!!!! >This technique is geared towards children ages 2-12. Dr. Phelan stated that >the more difficult the child the better this technique seems to work. He >even stated that it is perfect for children with AD(H)D, ODD, LD or many >other behavioral type problems or diseases. >It is a version of the "I am going to count to three." It is a bit more >complicated than that AND actually works. I know you are sitting there >saying "I have tried counting. I have tried timeout. I have tried taking >away privileges, etc. And nothing works." >His theory is that we all try and treat our children like little adults. >When they do something wrong, we first try and TALK to them. Then we REASON >with them. Next, we try to PUNISH them. Then we YELL. And then some of us >even HIT. So as it goes we Talk, Reason, Punish, Yell, Hit. Think about >your own situations and see if this isn’t exactly what is going on in your >home. >The problem with this approach is not only doesn’t it work, but the children >have all the control. Not only have they probably gotten their way (if not >good for you), but they have defiantly gotten you to go through a whole >series of an unpleasant episode. For a small person, this is quite alot of >power to get an adult all upset. It makes them feel not only more >important, but bigger. >The idea behind 123Magic is to take away all of that power. If your kids >are doing something wrong, say nagging you for a cookie before dinner. >This is sort of how the scenario would go. >"Mommy I want a cookie. I’m huuuuuungry." >"No, it’s almost time for dinner." >"Pleeeeeeaaaaase" >"That’s one." (No emotion. No explanation. No other words, except ‘That’s >one.’) >"Come on. I’m starved. Give me something." >"That’s two." >"All I want is a stinking cookie for crying out loud." >"That’s three. Take five." (Now the child would get a five minute time out >in their room. You explain nothing. You don’t talk about what the child >did. You just march him off to his room.) >If this is done consistently, for everything, from everyone in your home and >for all the rules. It works just like Magic. I couldn’t believe it with my >own child. It is great! There is a little more to it than this, so the >video or book would be the way to go. Like how does this apply to homework, >at the grocery, if the kids are fighting, what if they won’t go to their >room, etc. The video explains it all. >What I like best about it is that it is real easy to explain to >grandparents, neighbors, babysitters. And it puts everyone on the same wave >length of how to monitor your children. >If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask. You can e-mail me at
Response:
Okay…I’ve got to agree here with both Paula and Dorothy. This type of "discipline" just didn’t settle well with me when I read it, primarily because imo, control is an illusion, especially when it comes to raising children. Just my 2 cents. — Sarah-mom to Brandon (20 mos) & Camryn (she’s 5 mos) Come visit us at http://home.maine.rr.com/brancam/home.htm
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->x-no-archive: yes >Dorothy Sacks wrote re the "1-2-3Magic" method of discipline: >This is the same old punitive and controlling approach though a bit better >than spanking. It teaches nothing except that the parent has total control >over the child’s life and actions. The aim is not control of behavior nor >power over our children, but teaching the child to think about his behavior >and to take an ethical stance on all things. >Producing children who don’t follow the herd, who think and choose to >be self-disciplined is considerably more complicated than using a >technique that controls them. >I totally agree with you, Dorothy! *gasp* The "1-2-3" technique bothers >me…it’s so disrespectful of a child’s feelings and the human need to know >*why* a thing is the way it is…it’s just so "cold" in a way. (However, if >physical abuse is the alternative, then of course it’s preferable.) I’ve always >explained things to my daughters (okay, okay…*over*explained in many cases!), >and I’m very pleased with their behavior overall. >Paula
Response:
I’ll offer a different opinion on this. I don’t see this as trying to overly control a child or stifle his opinions. Its purpose, according to the examples, was to let the child know that whining or disobedience would not work. Don’t we all want our kids to learn that? The parent explained the rule to the child – that cookies were not going to be served just before dinner, or that toys in the store were not to be touched. This doesn’t sound like a case of kids asking why the parents made such rules. Certainly I think kids have a right to know why. This 1-2-3 method, however, seems to me to be for use when a child does know the rule but simply doesn’t want to follow it. Perhaps the description of how it works did leave out that rules should be explained to kids beforehand, so they know what to expect from us. If we allow ourselves to get caught up in endless explanations to a child who is whining to get his way or deliberately refusing to obey a household rule, we will end up with a child who knows all he has to do is keep whining, and eventually we may give him what he wants just to keep him quiet. We need to teach him that the rule must be followed, whether it is NO WHINING after Mom has said no or NO TOUCHING items at the store after Mom has said no, or he will be removed from the situation. Is that trying to exert control over our children? Well, yes. And that is our job as parents. Kids need some amount of control. They need to learn to follow rules. That does not mean we don’t explain why we’ve made a rule or that we don’t listen respectfully to their opinions. It does mean we don’t listen or respond to whining, and we don’t let them deliberately disobey the rules. I’ve seen too many parents pleading with their kids to behave but never really requiring that they do, and talking talking talking at them, and of course the kids just tune them out and ignore them. And now I am done talking talking talking. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Okay…I’ve got to agree here with both Paula and Dorothy. This type of >"discipline" just didn’t settle well with me when I read it, primarily >because imo, control is an illusion, especially when it comes to raising >children. Just my 2 cents. >– >Sarah-mom to Brandon (20 mos) & Camryn (she’s 5 mos) >Come visit us at http://home.maine.rr.com/brancam/home.htm >x-no-archive: yes >Dorothy Sacks wrote re the "1-2-3Magic" method of discipline: >>This is the same old punitive and controlling approach though a bit better >>than spanking. It teaches nothing except that the parent has total >control >>over the child’s life and actions. The aim is not control of behavior nor >>power over our children, but teaching the child to think about his >behavior >>and to take an ethical stance on all things. >>Producing children who don’t follow the herd, who think and choose to >>be self-disciplined is considerably more complicated than using a >>technique that controls them. >I totally agree with you, Dorothy! *gasp* The "1-2-3" technique bothers >me…it’s so disrespectful of a child’s feelings and the human need to know >*why* a thing is the way it is…it’s just so "cold" in a way. (However, if >physical abuse is the alternative, then of course it’s preferable.) I’ve >always >explained things to my daughters (okay, okay…*over*explained in many >cases!), >and I’m very pleased with their behavior overall. >Paula
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Maybe you are right on something’s, threats of bodily harm or other severe >wrongs where this approach would not work. The video and tape readily >admitted to this. >However, what else is there to learn in this situation or in the many >everyday situations similar to this. The mother already said why the child >wasn’t getting the cookie. The only reason any conversation continues at >this point is that the child is trying to take control of the situation. >The child is not whining any longer because she wants the cookie. The child >is whining to regain control. >There is no threat here from her mother, only a refusal of giving control to >the child. If the child continues, she is sent to her room away from the >situation. Only for five minutes. Her toys are still in her room, she >doesn’t have to sit in the corner, she is not really being punished, just >removed. >I am not criticizing the other disciplining techniques that are out there. >However, there is so much room for variation on any of these techniques and >usually grandma and grandpa or the neighbors or whoever doesn’t think they >work and they don’t follow your lead. Also your spouse may not agree and >you still have strife within the household. The child is still getting >mixed messages unless you are with them 24/7. Most of us aren’t, unless our >children are very small. >This 123Magic is easy to do and easy to explain. Anyone can use it on an >child or personality type. Once you get the technique down and have >regained control in your household, it is very easy to instill any other >method or ideal you believe in or that fits your family’s personality. >It has worked amazingly for us. We even took him to Toys-R-Us and let him >walk around the store (not in a cart.) We told him twice through out the >store that this wasn’t our house and not to touch anything. He touched one >time after each reminder and all we had to say was "That’s one." No other >problems, at all, in the store. >One lady was so amazed, she just couldn’t believe it. >My kids have gotten so much more relaxed, because they know EXACTLY what to >expect. There is no longer any guess work on their part or mine. They know >mommy’s buttons CAN’T be pushed. The whining has decreased to almost no >existence. I have really, really begun to enjoy this motherhood thing. It >is loads of fun. Maybe this is just the honeymoon with this new discovery. >But I love it and will promote it as often and to as many people who will >listen. >I think you are wrong about the magic bullet. If there ever was one, this >is probably as close as anyone will ever get. >Heidi
This is the same old punitive and controlling approach though a bit better than spanking. It teaches nothing except that the parent has total control over the child’s life and actions. The aim is not control of behavior nor power over our children, but teaching the child to think about his behavior and to take an ethical stance on all things. Producing children who don’t follow the herd, who think and choose to be self-disciplined is considerably more complicated than using a technique that controls them. Dorothy I liked Paul’s websites and will add one of my own here. > "Helping Your Child Learn Responsible Behavior with activities" > http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content/behavior.html > U.S. Department of Education > and > "How to Teach Your Children Discipline" > http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content/discipline.3.19.html > Marilyn E. Gootman, University of Georgia > Both free!
For teachers mainly, but parents might still get something out of it. Discipline withoutStress Rewards or Punishments How to Raise Responsibility & Create A Learning Community by Marvin Marshall You can print this out free. and the Taking Children Seriously Website http://www.eeng.dcu.ie/~tcs/index.html Dorothy
Response:
Maybe you are right on something’s, threats of bodily harm or other severe wrongs where this approach would not work. The video and tape readily admitted to this. However, what else is there to learn in this situation or in the many everyday situations similar to this. The mother already said why the child wasn’t getting the cookie. The only reason any conversation continues at this point is that the child is trying to take control of the situation. The child is not whining any longer because she wants the cookie. The child is whining to regain control. There is no threat here from her mother, only a refusal of giving control to the child. If the child continues, she is sent to her room away from the situation. Only for five minutes. Her toys are still in her room, she doesn’t have to sit in the corner, she is not really being punished, just removed. I am not criticizing the other disciplining techniques that are out there. However, there is so much room for variation on any of these techniques and usually grandma and grandpa or the neighbors or whoever doesn’t think they work and they don’t follow your lead. Also your spouse may not agree and you still have strife within the household. The child is still getting mixed messages unless you are with them 24/7. Most of us aren’t, unless our children are very small. This 123Magic is easy to do and easy to explain. Anyone can use it on an child or personality type. Once you get the technique down and have regained control in your household, it is very easy to instill any other method or ideal you believe in or that fits your family’s personality. It has worked amazingly for us. We even took him to Toys-R-Us and let him walk around the store (not in a cart.) We told him twice through out the store that this wasn’t our house and not to touch anything. He touched one time after each reminder and all we had to say was "That’s one." No other problems, at all, in the store. One lady was so amazed, she just couldn’t believe it. My kids have gotten so much more relaxed, because they know EXACTLY what to expect. There is no longer any guess work on their part or mine. They know mommy’s buttons CAN’T be pushed. The whining has decreased to almost no existence. I have really, really begun to enjoy this motherhood thing. It is loads of fun. Maybe this is just the honeymoon with this new discovery. But I love it and will promote it as often and to as many people who will listen. I think you are wrong about the magic bullet. If there ever was one, this is probably as close as anyone will ever get. Heidi — Would you like a home-based business? Ask me what is working for me and my family.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m sure that this has been gone through before, but this method just > uses threats to contol a child. It will not teach a child why she > should not whine for cookie, just that she shouldn’t whine while > mommys around. > There is no magic bullet, teaching children is long hard work! > For a more sensible (IMHO) approach, check out > "Helping Your Child Learn Responsible Behavior with activities" > http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content/behavior.html > U.S. Department of Education > and > "How to Teach Your Children Discipline" > http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content/discipline.3.19.html > Marilyn E. Gootman, University of Georgia > Both free! > Paul > — >There have been alot of posts lately about our little ones wrecking havoc in >our homes. I posted this a while back at the end of a thread, so many of >you may have missed it. >I found a fascinating video at the library the other day called 123Magic by >Dr. Thomas D. Phelan Ph.D. I started using his technique right after a saw >the video. I have been using it now for over a week and the results are >nothing short of a miracle. I have not yelled or raised my voice at my >children in a week and a half. It has been GREAT!!!! >This technique is geared towards children ages 2-12. Dr. Phelan stated that >the more difficult the child the better this technique seems to work. He >even stated that it is perfect for children with AD(H)D, ODD, LD or many >other behavioral type problems or diseases. >It is a version of the "I am going to count to three." It is a bit more >complicated than that AND actually works. I know you are sitting there >saying "I have tried counting. I have tried timeout. I have tried taking >away privileges, etc. And nothing works." >His theory is that we all try and treat our children like little adults. >When they do something wrong, we first try and TALK to them. Then we REASON >with them. Next, we try to PUNISH them. Then we YELL. And then some of us >even HIT. So as it goes we Talk, Reason, Punish, Yell, Hit. Think about >your own situations and see if this isn’t exactly what is going on in your >home. >The problem with this approach is not only doesn’t it work, but the children >have all the control. Not only have they probably gotten their way (if not >good for you), but they have defiantly gotten you to go through a whole >series of an unpleasant episode. For a small person, this is quite alot of >power to get an adult all upset. It makes them feel not only more >important, but bigger. >The idea behind 123Magic is to take away all of that power. If your kids >are doing something wrong, say nagging you for a cookie before dinner. >This is sort of how the scenario would go. >"Mommy I want a cookie. I’m huuuuuungry." >"No, it’s almost time for dinner." >"Pleeeeeeaaaaase" >"That’s one." (No emotion. No explanation. No other words, except ‘That’s >one.’) >"Come on. I’m starved. Give me something." >"That’s two." >"All I want is a stinking cookie for crying out loud." >"That’s three. Take five." (Now the child would get a five minute time out >in their room. You explain nothing. You don’t talk about what the child >did. You just march him off to his room.) >If this is done consistently, for everything, from everyone in your home and >for all the rules. It works just like Magic. I couldn’t believe it with my >own child. It is great! There is a little more to it than this, so the >video or book would be the way to go. Like how does this apply to homework, >at the grocery, if the kids are fighting, what if they won’t go to their >room, etc. The video explains it all. >What I like best about it is that it is real easy to explain to >grandparents, neighbors, babysitters. And it puts everyone on the same wave >length of how to monitor your children. >If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask. You can e-mail me at
Response:
I’m sure that this has been gone through before, but this method just uses threats to contol a child. It will not teach a child why she should not whine for cookie, just that she shouldn’t whine while mommys around. There is no magic bullet, teaching children is long hard work! For a more sensible (IMHO) approach, check out "Helping Your Child Learn Responsible Behavior with activities" http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content/behavior.html U.S. Department of Education and "How to Teach Your Children Discipline" http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content/discipline.3.19.html Marilyn E. Gootman, University of Georgia Both free! Paul — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->There have been alot of posts lately about our little ones wrecking havoc in >our homes. I posted this a while back at the end of a thread, so many of >you may have missed it. >I found a fascinating video at the library the other day called 123Magic by >Dr. Thomas D. Phelan Ph.D. I started using his technique right after a saw >the video. I have been using it now for over a week and the results are >nothing short of a miracle. I have not yelled or raised my voice at my >children in a week and a half. It has been GREAT!!!! >This technique is geared towards children ages 2-12. Dr. Phelan stated that >the more difficult the child the better this technique seems to work. He >even stated that it is perfect for children with AD(H)D, ODD, LD or many >other behavioral type problems or diseases. >It is a version of the "I am going to count to three." It is a bit more >complicated than that AND actually works. I know you are sitting there >saying "I have tried counting. I have tried timeout. I have tried taking >away privileges, etc. And nothing works." >His theory is that we all try and treat our children like little adults. >When they do something wrong, we first try and TALK to them. Then we REASON >with them. Next, we try to PUNISH them. Then we YELL. And then some of us >even HIT. So as it goes we Talk, Reason, Punish, Yell, Hit. Think about >your own situations and see if this isn’t exactly what is going on in your >home. >The problem with this approach is not only doesn’t it work, but the children >have all the control. Not only have they probably gotten their way (if not >good for you), but they have defiantly gotten you to go through a whole >series of an unpleasant episode. For a small person, this is quite alot of >power to get an adult all upset. It makes them feel not only more >important, but bigger. >The idea behind 123Magic is to take away all of that power. If your kids >are doing something wrong, say nagging you for a cookie before dinner. >This is sort of how the scenario would go. >"Mommy I want a cookie. I’m huuuuuungry." >"No, it’s almost time for dinner." >"Pleeeeeeaaaaase" >"That’s one." (No emotion. No explanation. No other words, except ‘That’s >one.’) >"Come on. I’m starved. Give me something." >"That’s two." >"All I want is a stinking cookie for crying out loud." >"That’s three. Take five." (Now the child would get a five minute time out >in their room. You explain nothing. You don’t talk about what the child >did. You just march him off to his room.) >If this is done consistently, for everything, from everyone in your home and >for all the rules. It works just like Magic. I couldn’t believe it with my >own child. It is great! There is a little more to it than this, so the >video or book would be the way to go. Like how does this apply to homework, >at the grocery, if the kids are fighting, what if they won’t go to their >room, etc. The video explains it all. >What I like best about it is that it is real easy to explain to >grandparents, neighbors, babysitters. And it puts everyone on the same wave >length of how to monitor your children. >If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask. You can e-mail me at
Response:
There have been alot of posts lately about our little ones wrecking havoc in our homes. I posted this a while back at the end of a thread, so many of you may have missed it. I found a fascinating video at the library the other day called 123Magic by Dr. Thomas D. Phelan Ph.D. I started using his technique right after a saw the video. I have been using it now for over a week and the results are nothing short of a miracle. I have not yelled or raised my voice at my children in a week and a half. It has been GREAT!!!! This technique is geared towards children ages 2-12. Dr. Phelan stated that the more difficult the child the better this technique seems to work. He even stated that it is perfect for children with AD(H)D, ODD, LD or many other behavioral type problems or diseases. It is a version of the "I am going to count to three." It is a bit more complicated than that AND actually works. I know you are sitting there saying "I have tried counting. I have tried timeout. I have tried taking away privileges, etc. And nothing works." His theory is that we all try and treat our children like little adults. When they do something wrong, we first try and TALK to them. Then we REASON with them. Next, we try to PUNISH them. Then we YELL. And then some of us even HIT. So as it goes we Talk, Reason, Punish, Yell, Hit. Think about your own situations and see if this isn’t exactly what is going on in your home. The problem with this approach is not only doesn’t it work, but the children have all the control. Not only have they probably gotten their way (if not good for you), but they have defiantly gotten you to go through a whole series of an unpleasant episode. For a small person, this is quite alot of power to get an adult all upset. It makes them feel not only more important, but bigger. The idea behind 123Magic is to take away all of that power. If your kids are doing something wrong, say nagging you for a cookie before dinner. This is sort of how the scenario would go. "Mommy I want a cookie. I’m huuuuuungry." "No, it’s almost time for dinner." "Pleeeeeeaaaaase" "That’s one." (No emotion. No explanation. No other words, except ‘That’s one.’) "Come on. I’m starved. Give me something." "That’s two." "All I want is a stinking cookie for crying out loud." "That’s three. Take five." (Now the child would get a five minute time out in their room. You explain nothing. You don’t talk about what the child did. You just march him off to his room.) If this is done consistently, for everything, from everyone in your home and for all the rules. It works just like Magic. I couldn’t believe it with my own child. It is great! There is a little more to it than this, so the video or book would be the way to go. Like how does this apply to homework, at the grocery, if the kids are fighting, what if they won’t go to their room, etc. The video explains it all. What I like best about it is that it is real easy to explain to grandparents, neighbors, babysitters. And it puts everyone on the same wave length of how to monitor your children. If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask. You can e-mail me at — Would you like a home-based business? Ask me what is working for me and my family.
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fun for me) and I can’t think of a really scary part either. He sure isnt :scared of it. : : :>A 7 year old shouldn’t watch the Mummy. But he did, and there probably wasn’t :>>much you could do about it. You might want to have a talk with the mother :>about :>>movies in the future. I’m not even letting my daughter watch Toy Story 2 :>(the :>>first one scared ME!). :> :>Sorry to veer off-topic a little, but I can’t for the life of me :>remember anything in Toy Story that would scare anyone. :> :>What was it that scared you? : : 