> > Take your kids to the movie > By Israel Shamir > Keep your missionizing crap to yourself.

It’s not missionizing, it’s a good parenting tip. I plan on taking my kids to see the movie and then building a big wooden cross in the backyard. I will then tell the kids if they misbehave they will be crucified. If it’s good enough for Jesus, it’s good enough for them.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> Take your kids to the movie >> Why would I want to expose children to a propaganda film about one >> of many false gods? At least the Hindu myths are more colorful and >> entertaining than the Xian ones. Too bad no movie about them will >> be made. > What are you talking about? There’s lotsa movies based on Hindu > mythology. I see ‘em on the UHF channels from time to time. True, > there’s more singing than you might expect, but they’re still fun > to watch. There’s at least one theater in Chicago that shows them, > direct from India, too. > Oh, you meant "that will actually be shown in a lot of places and > will be readily available to people who aren’t in India." Never > mind. > Heh. Anybody ever mention you’re a smartaleck?

The observation has been made. Occasionally even in my hearing. D

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> > Take your kids to the movie > Why would I want to expose children to a propaganda film about one of > many false gods? At least the Hindu myths are more colorful and > entertaining than the Xian ones. Too bad no movie about them will be > made.

I’m looking forward to seeing this myself, but not because I’m a believer. For children, the value in seeing a good dramatization of the Passion consists in the following: 1) Getting a better understanding of a story that has had a major influence on Western culture; to me, knowing about the crucifixion is important if only to allow one to understand the context of certain works by Salvador Dali. 2) Getting a better idea of what the majority of their countrymen (if in the US) are ranting about with the crosses and the fish on the cars and so on. 3) Enjoying a well-acted dramatization. James Cavaziel ain’t no slouch in the acting department, nor are the rest of the cast. It’s only a pity that the film evidently focuses strictly on the Passion itself, so that presumably little to none of Yeshua’s attributed teachings with actual moral and ethical, if not scientific, value (e.g., ‘love thy neighbor’, ‘look to the plank in your own eye first’, etc.) will be dealt with. Of course, for myself, I’m mainly going to see it for Monica Bellucci, who is starting to make a career as the saving grace to a lot of really bad movies.

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> Why are Xtians always going on about the "sacrifice …of Christ?"  Is it > not true that *thousands* of people were crucified during Roman times? > Did they suffer any less, because they weren’t divine?  Why to they get > dismissed as just some poor schlocks, while JC gets all the attention?

Agreed.  I think that we should go back to Spartacus as a sort of secular saint of the quest for freedom. Of course, after his slave revolt failed, he and all the rest of the slaves were crucified, placed every couple of yards along the whole length of the Via Appia (some 30 miles IIRC). Now, that’s a crucifixion and a sacrifice. Not to mention a really smelly road to travel for the next couple months. And Spartacus was played by Kirk Douglas, which has got to count for something…

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Sorry, its R rated.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Take your kids to the movie > Why would I want to expose children to a propaganda film about one > of many false gods? At least the Hindu myths are more colorful and > entertaining than the Xian ones. Too bad no movie about them will > be made. > What are you talking about? There’s lotsa movies based on Hindu > mythology. I see ‘em on the UHF channels from time to time. True, > there’s more singing than you might expect, but they’re still fun > to watch. There’s at least one theater in Chicago that shows them, > direct from India, too. > Oh, you meant "that will actually be shown in a lot of places and > will be readily available to people who aren’t in India." Never > mind.

Heh. Anybody ever mention you’re a smartaleck?

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> Take your kids to the movie

You want to expose children to the brutal, S&M fantasies of Mel the loon? — Mark K. Bilbo  -  a.a. #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion "There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."

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> Take your kids to the movie

You do realize that it is rated "R" for violence, correct?

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> > Indeed, this film can wake up the American Christians to the supreme > sacrifice and glory of Christ. It will bring American ‘Jews’ to the crown > of their long assimilation process – to the Church. It will set them free > – for Christianity is freedom, first of all. And then the Holy Land will > remain the socle of the Cross, not the base of Antichrist. > Why are Xtians always going on about the "sacrifice …of Christ?"  Is it > not true that *thousands* of people were crucified during Roman times? > Did they suffer any less, because they weren’t divine?  Why to they get > dismissed as just some poor schlocks, while JC gets all the attention?

Yeah, and the Inquisition put many to death in ways just as agonizing and prolonged, if not more so, in the name of Christ. Not to mention that it their theology is correct, Christ is reigning in glory in Heaven, forever and ever. Big sacrifice there. Best, Marc

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > To the newsgroups: alt.atheism,soc.culture.jewish, > rec.arts.movies.current-films,rec.arts.sf.written, > rec.travel.air >> Take your kids to the movie >> By Israel Shamir >> The film of Mel Gibson, The Passion, grows into an important, maybe >> the important event of the year. Even before screening, it caused >> violent reactions of the American Jewish ‘thought police’, ADL led by >> obnoxious Foxman. There are unpleasant rumours (in the New York Times) >> that Mr Gibson gave in and decided to censor the Gospel. I hope it is >… > I’m taking my children to see this portrayal of the perfidy of the > Christkillers. They need to be shown the blood and gore that surrounds > the Christillers and Masonic devil worshippers. > And if I get just one more call from CPS that I am violating my custody > agreement by taking them to see an R-rated film (R-rated by the Jew > York City types), I’ll kill the bitch. No Christian jury will do a > single thing to me. > CPS can’t tell me my kids can’t see the truth about the Christkillers. > I’d give this about a D+, maybe a C-.  Definitely well into the Room > For Improvement category.  Just the same, it’s good to see you trolls > trying less boringly conventional tactics, and working together.  Keep > at it.  It’s probably just a matter of finding exactly the right > combination of groups; *somewhere* on Usenet, there’s almost bound to > be someone — perhaps even several someones — stupid enough to > actually take you seriously.  (Then again, that requires that they a) > be even dumber than you are, and b) still be capable of using a > computer, so maybe not.  You might do better to try trolling each > other; it’s quite unlikely that you’re all at exactly the same level > of retardation.)

I saw a few commercial blurbs for some show about Jesus on prime time TV tonight.  Do you plan on tuning in, or are you a Jesus hater or some kind of anti anti-semite? — Elroy Willis EAP Chief Editor and Newshound http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news

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> Why are Xtians always going on about the "sacrifice …of Christ?"  Is it > not true that *thousands* of people were crucified during Roman times? > Did they suffer any less, because they weren’t divine?  Why to they get > dismissed as just some poor schlocks, while JC gets all the attention?

Depends on the Xtians.  The Mormons (not uniquely in this case) believe that the "heavy lifting" both for the agony and the redemption happened the night in Gethsemane (and there is some in-text justification for that view), with the arrest-trial-scourging- parade-crucification-execution being a minor but necessary codicil. — Mark Atwood   | When you do things right, http://www.pobox.com/~mra

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Take your kids to the movie > By Israel Shamir > The film of Mel Gibson, The Passion, grows into an important, maybe > the important event of the year. Even before screening, it caused > violent reactions of the American Jewish ‘thought police’, ADL led by > obnoxious Foxman. There are unpleasant rumours (in the New York Times) > that Mr Gibson gave in and decided to censor the Gospel. I hope it is >… > I’m taking my children to see this portrayal of the perfidy of the > Christkillers. They need to be shown the blood and gore that surrounds > the Christillers and Masonic devil worshippers. > And if I get just one more call from CPS that I am violating my custody > agreement by taking them to see an R-rated film (R-rated by the Jew > York City types), I’ll kill the bitch. No Christian jury will do a > single thing to me. > CPS can’t tell me my kids can’t see the truth about the Christkillers.

I hope your children can read the subtitles.  How old are they? — Elroy Willis EAP Chief Editor and Newshound http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news

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> Take your kids to the movie

Why would I want to expose children to a propaganda film about one of many false gods? At least the Hindu myths are more colorful and entertaining than the Xian ones. Too bad no movie about them will be made.

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>Why would I want to expose children to a propaganda film about one of >many false gods? At least the Hindu myths are more colorful and >entertaining than the Xian ones. Too bad no movie about them will be >made.

Be careful or you’ll wake up the terrible Dr. Jai!!

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> > Take your kids to the movie > Why would I want to expose children to a propaganda film about one of > many false gods? At least the Hindu myths are more colorful and > entertaining than the Xian ones. Too bad no movie about them will be > made.

What are you talking about? There’s lotsa movies based on Hindu mythology. I see ‘em on the UHF channels from time to time. True, there’s more singing than you might expect, but they’re still fun to watch. There’s at least one theater in Chicago that shows them, direct from India, too. Oh, you meant "that will actually be shown in a lot of places and will be readily available to people who aren’t in India." Never mind. D

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> > Take your kids to the movie > Why would I want to expose children to a propaganda film about one of > many false gods? At least the Hindu myths are more colorful and > entertaining than the Xian ones. Too bad no movie about them will be > made. > What are you talking about? There’s lotsa movies based on Hindu

mythology…. I know replying to one’s self is bad form, but not two hours after I posted this, I ran across the following article: Rock Diva Tina Turner to Play Hindu Goddess in Film http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=638&e=1&u=/nm/2004022… It all ties together, I tell you. D

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>> Take your kids to the movie > Why would I want to expose children to a propaganda film about one of > many false gods?

Oxymoron.  Is there any other one?   Dog? Which airline does the false dog love to hate though?

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> Take your kids to the movie > By Israel Shamir

Keep your missionizing crap to yourself.

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> Indeed, this film can wake up the American Christians to the supreme > sacrifice and glory of Christ. It will bring American ‘Jews’ to the crown > of their long assimilation process – to the Church. It will set them free > – for Christianity is freedom, first of all. And then the Holy Land will > remain the socle of the Cross, not the base of Antichrist.

Why are Xtians always going on about the "sacrifice …of Christ?"  Is it not true that *thousands* of people were crucified during Roman times? Did they suffer any less, because they weren’t divine?  Why to they get dismissed as just some poor schlocks, while JC gets all the attention? — MarkA (still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)

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> Take your kids to the movie

No. And if on the extremely unlikely chance that it’s an in-flight movie (the only reason I find for your off-topic cross-post) I’ll find another carrier. — http://mattdrury.net/travel (since 1984)

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I’ll wait for the video and get it free from my club.  Why should I pay money into anything that is xtian?!?! — Shrub is a ONE TERMER!     Just Like His Daddy! http://wonderofitall.com/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Indeed, this film can wake up the American Christians to the supreme > sacrifice and glory of Christ. It will bring American ‘Jews’ to the crown > of their long assimilation process – to the Church. It will set them free > – for Christianity is freedom, first of all. And then the Holy Land will > remain the socle of the Cross, not the base of Antichrist. > Why are Xtians always going on about the "sacrifice …of Christ?"  Is it > not true that *thousands* of people were crucified during Roman times? > Did they suffer any less, because they weren’t divine?  Why to they get > dismissed as just some poor schlocks, while JC gets all the attention? > — > MarkA > (still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)

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> Take your kids to the movie > By Israel Shamir > The film of Mel Gibson, The Passion, grows into an important, maybe > the important event of the year. Even before screening, it caused > violent reactions of the American Jewish ‘thought police’, ADL led by > obnoxious Foxman. There are unpleasant rumours (in the New York Times) > that Mr Gibson gave in and decided to censor the Gospel. I hope it is

… I’m taking my children to see this portrayal of the perfidy of the Christkillers. They need to be shown the blood and gore that surrounds the Christillers and Masonic devil worshippers. And if I get just one more call from CPS that I am violating my custody agreement by taking them to see an R-rated film (R-rated by the Jew York City types), I’ll kill the bitch. No Christian jury will do a single thing to me. CPS can’t tell me my kids can’t see the truth about the Christkillers. –Tim May

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To the newsgroups: alt.atheism,soc.culture.jewish, rec.arts.movies.current-films,rec.arts.sf.written, rec.travel.air – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Take your kids to the movie > By Israel Shamir > The film of Mel Gibson, The Passion, grows into an important, maybe > the important event of the year. Even before screening, it caused > violent reactions of the American Jewish ‘thought police’, ADL led by > obnoxious Foxman. There are unpleasant rumours (in the New York Times) > that Mr Gibson gave in and decided to censor the Gospel. I hope it is >… >I’m taking my children to see this portrayal of the perfidy of the >Christkillers. They need to be shown the blood and gore that surrounds >the Christillers and Masonic devil worshippers. >And if I get just one more call from CPS that I am violating my custody >agreement by taking them to see an R-rated film (R-rated by the Jew >York City types), I’ll kill the bitch. No Christian jury will do a >single thing to me. >CPS can’t tell me my kids can’t see the truth about the Christkillers.

I’d give this about a D+, maybe a C-.  Definitely well into the Room For Improvement category.  Just the same, it’s good to see you trolls trying less boringly conventional tactics, and working together.  Keep at it.  It’s probably just a matter of finding exactly the right combination of groups; *somewhere* on Usenet, there’s almost bound to be someone — perhaps even several someones — stupid enough to actually take you seriously.  (Then again, that requires that they a) be even dumber than you are, and b) still be capable of using a computer, so maybe not.  You might do better to try trolling each other; it’s quite unlikely that you’re all at exactly the same level of retardation.) — Bill Snyder   [This space unintentionally left blank.]

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@posting.google.com: > Take your kids to the movie

(snip) Why bother?  Read the book, it sucked, why would I think the movie would be any better? — Woden "religion is a socio-political institution for the control of people’s thoughts, lives, and actions; based on ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."

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Take your kids to the movie By Israel Shamir The film of Mel Gibson, The Passion, grows into an important, maybe the important event of the year. Even before screening, it caused violent reactions of the American Jewish ‘thought police’, ADL led by obnoxious Foxman. There are unpleasant rumours (in the New York Times) that Mr Gibson gave in and decided to censor the Gospel. I hope it is not true, for a man who can give in and cut the Gospel is not worthy to make a film about Golgotha. ‘To change even one letter in the Bible is like to destroy the world’, says the Jewish wisdom, and I concur: if the Gospel, the most important part of the Bible, tells us of the High Priest of Jews that he accepted his responsibility for the verdict, Mr Gibson is not entitled to change it, even he were to be crucified himself. Naturally, the High Priest of antisemitism fighters, Abe Foxman, the guy who took bribe from Marc Rich the thief, is not worried about placid American Goyim attacking the innocent Jews. First, it is not bloody likely. Even if the Jews were to crucify Christ today in prime time on CNN, the Americans won’t dare to object. Secondly, every attack on a Jew brings cash to Abe Foxman; he thrives on strife. He is worried about something else. Foxman and other enemies of Gibson’s film are worried that the young American kids of some Jewish background, like kids of Vermont Governor Dean, or many of our readers, will see the movie and never again will call themselves ‘Jews’ anymore. Foxman, Bronfman et al are worried that these kids – and grown ups – will take themselves to the church, while these leaders will remain with assorted retired folk in Florida. Their worries are our hopes. There many good people who by mistake or by ignorance consider themselves ‘Jews’. For this mistake they pay dearly: they are forced to fight against ‘the Jews’ while supporting the setup. I saw something similar in Russia, where many good people called themselves ‘communists’ in the days of Brezhnev. They had to justify or condemn invasion of Afghanistan from extremely uncomfortable position. But they had no choice in the USSR of those days. But now, there is no need for any good person to call him/herself a Jew anymore. The Church always welcomed these good people of Jewish origin to her bosom. They are welcome, and the film of Gibson hopefully will bring them – away from Foxman and Caiaphas to Christ. But this beautiful plan can’t be implemented by way of ideological and theological compromise. The Church is open for the good people, and the separation of lambs from goats is promised beginning of the Last Judgement. Now, appearance of the Mel Gibson’s film provides us with opportunity to separate lambs from goats. The Washington columnist Joe Sobran wrote to me: ‘the Mel Gibson’s movie is being accused of "antisemitism" just for presenting the Gospel story. Have you noticed that Christianity, the Catholic Church, the popes, Martin Luther, many of the most eminent Christian authors, and the Gospels themselves are constantly called antisemitic? But not Jesus himself! Why not? Obviously someone is trying to tell us something with all these charges of antisemitism. Here is a man who antagonized the Jewish authorities of his day, incurring all their fury, and who has inspired TWO THOUSAND YEARS of antisemitism! Why does He get off the hook? Why don’t they just come out and accuse Him? That’s plainly what they’re driving at. So let them say it. Remember, when they talk about "antisemitism" they’re really talking about Jesus Christ. If they won’t say it, we should’. Indeed, this film can wake up the American Christians to the supreme sacrifice and glory of Christ. It will bring American ‘Jews’ to the crown of their long assimilation process – to the Church. It will set them free – for Christianity is freedom, first of all. And then the Holy Land will remain the socle of the Cross, not the base of Antichrist. http://www.israelshamir.net/english/gibson.shtml

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 i am looking for a book ( no i don’t know if it has been written, but it should) interviews with parens on parenting tips that got their children accepted to ivy league schools. Does anybody know anything remotedly similiar to this? thanks.

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>  i am looking for a book ( no i don’t know if it has been written, but it > should) > interviews with parens on parenting tips that got their children accepted to > ivy league schools. > Does anybody know anything remotedly similiar to this? > thanks.

they don’t need a book just a phrase ’stop bragging, you are making everyone else sick with your preening’

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I can identify with this.  I was always the "quiet one" all through school, and am still known as that to some extent, though I am able to do well in one on one situations, and have no problem speaking to a large group. I ended up doing well in school, and now am practicing law. My 4-year old daughter is now labelled as shy.  She talks a blue streak with us and close relatives, but at school and in new social situations is quiet and unwilling to talk at first. I have found a lot of patience is the key.  Even now, when people constantly comment on how quiet I am, it makes me even less willing to talk.  With my daughter, I have found gradually bringing her into a new situation is the key. I do not force her to talk to anyone, and discourage others (eg relatives she hasn’t seen in awhile) from pushing her to talk.  After being in the new situation for awhile, she will realize she can talk to these people. And a very understanding preschool teacher has helped.  At first, when they had an activity requiring each child to contribute to the discussion (eg name something you saw on today’s field trip), she would ask my daughter last so she could watch all the others participate.  She now talks to the teacher, and participates in class discussions.  The teacher realizes Megan needs a little more time to adjust to new situations. It will still take time for her to interact with her classmates, though.  Just give your child lots of patience.  Not everyone is destined to be the life of the party or gregarious in all situations.

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My daughter was very shy also, all her life, until Grade One.  Her first day of kindergarten she cried all day.  Poor thing. I saw a doctor about my daughter’s shyness.  This is what he said… some shyness is inherited.  It can be genetic. Most shyness is conditioned.  The patterns can be changed! When someone asks your child a question…do you respond for him if he doesn’t? Do you make excuses for his shyness? I know I used to.  I would say stuff, like "Oh, she’s shy…and I would answer" Meanwhile my daughter would hide behind my legs and cling on me like jam on toast. I stopped doing that…cold turkey…even going so far as making her respond to the people who spoke to her. I had to be quite firm with her a few times, but every time she did it …it was building up her confidence that she could do it. It was slow going at first…but she is doing much better now. What your son needs is alot reassurance that he is NOT shy.  That he CAN do it. You need to build up his self confidence.  This can be done in different ways. Giving them tonnes of praise when they do answer and respond to other people. Your child is still young and my guess is that he will grow out of this with the more exposure he has with other people.  His confidence will build up. There were times when my daughter would cry at night …. she didn’t want to go to school, because she was so shy…she was scared.  But I gave her lots of hugs and reassurance, and pushed her even harder to go for it.  She is in grade two now.  And she is doing very well.  Her report card actually said, that she was participating in class discussions and was speaking well in class.  She stands up for herself more.  She has become quite the independent individual. You need to know when your child might be stressed with situations, but if he is getting rewarded with attention for being shy, he will not likely want to change.  You need to give him attention when he is talking, especially to others, and praise him with gentle words and high fives, when he does respond. Try not to worry.  Don’t shelter him, don’t make excuses for him…he will with the right amount of motivation grow out of this. Good luck!  My heart truly goes out to your son. — zipper For lots of parenting tips and other useful information regarding childcare, visit my website! http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare/index.html

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I thought about what I posted last night.  And I wanted to apologize for such a scary post.  I don’t know your child and the disorder I saw was very rare.  So, I highly doubt that anything like this could be occurring.  It all just sounded familiar. Again sorry if I sounded so negative. Heidi — Would you like a home-based business?  Ask me what is working for me and my family.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I saw a show a few months back about children who were overly shy.  It was > almost as if they were suffering from compulsive obsessive disorder, but it > was manifesting itself through their shyness.  I wish I could remember the > name of the disorder.  All I really remember about it was that it will only > get worse without some sort of intervention.  They had some children on the > show who no longer even spoke with their parents. > I am not a psychologist and really have no way of know whether or not your > little one is going through this.  It was just what you had posted that > sounded very familiar to this episode. > I also remember from the show, that many times it isn’t so much from shyness > that they stop talking.  But more from fear of making a mistake.  Either the > wrong answer, pronouncing a word wrong,  using the wrong word, what ever. > And yes it could start as early as four, if I remember correctly one of the > children’s parents noticed signs at age three. > I hope this isn’t the case.  But if things get worse, it may be worth > looking into. > Heidi > — > Would you like a home-based business?  Ask me what is working for me and my > family. > I’m hoping someone can help because we’re at a loss.  We have a child > (now 4) so is fine talking with us and other children (one-on-one) but > when it comes to talking to adults or at school (in a class of 20) he > shuts right now.  He won’t talk to anyone and when people ask him > questions he just turns away and doesn’t answer.  If we’re around > he’ll just look at us and not say anything.  We wait for 10 seconds > and then we generally re-ask the question from us. > We’re trying to figure out how to get him to open up.  As I said > before he’s fine with us and most other kids one-on-one.  Also when > his grandparents take him out he doesn’t STOP talking.  But he doesn’t > talk to his grandparents when we are around.  It’s very difficult. > Also his jr-kindergarten teacher doesn’t think he can talk.  She asks > him questions and he never answers. > He very smart for his age (what every parent thinks) and there are no > other problems.  He has two younger brothers (2-1/2 years and 1 month > old).  The problem seems to have gotten worse since he start school (3 > months ago).  The teacher says he’s very happy in school but he just > doesn’t talk. > Help!

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>four years old isn’t that old.  If you are really concerned, consult with >your pediatrician or early childhood development expert who could spend a >bit of time observing him in several different types of situations. >- Aula

This is good advice. It is hard to judge this type of thing without observation in the home or school. But, I have experience with this from 3 different angles. First of all, I was a "shy" child. Second, my children each had bouts of shyness (and the opposite!), and third, I work in childcare, and we usually have at least one child a year like this. He talks at home, but won’t say a word at school. Most of the teachers react as it sounds like yours did- they think the kid *can’t* talk and often don’t believe the mothers. What I have found works best is to give the child room. Don’t put him on the spot, don’t make him feel different, don’t try to pressure or cajole him into talking. Just talk to him, play with him, and wait. Usually, after a few weeks, they will start to talk to me. One word answers to questions, etc. After a couple of months, they usually talk quite a bit to me and begin talking to the other children. I have seen other teachers handle this differently- using bribery, etc making a big deal out of it- "Are you going to talk to me today?" etc. IME, the more pressure put on the child, the longer it takes him to feel comforatble with the person and to open up. Someone mentioned that this could be related to OCD and being afraid to make a mistake. This makes sense to me, and *if* this is the case, putting pressure on the child makes him *more* afraid to speak, because it raises the consequences (or his perception of them). Pressure can also lead to a power struggle. If he see  that not takling gets a reaction, he will use it to his advantage. I would say if he is having fun in school, and his teachers aren’t making a big deal out of it and are being patient, just keep sending him and watching for slow progress. If it makes you feel any better, I grew up to be very comfortable speaking to people one-on-one and in front of groups. It took a long time (20’s!), but the more positive, low-pressure experiences I had, the more comfortable I got with it. Tara P

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> 4 seems awfully young to be in a structured (jr. kindergarten class) > maybe he is intimidated. I would back off and let him alone. Not every > kid has to be outgoing and social in every situation. > A good who has developed an elaborate way to ignore adults in social > situations [thus drawing attention to himself as 'the shy one' the special > one etc] is not just ‘less outgoing’ than usual.

Oh please; this is most likely not some child with an elaborate plan to get more attention from people.  Nor is it likely that this is a child who has extreme phsychologoical problems.  This is simply a child who is different in  public places then at home–and aren’t we all different in public than we are at home.  If he’s doing ok in school, able to answer the questions and complete the work, able to get along with peers, and is enjoying himself, then don’t worry.  I’ve seen many children who are quiet and slow to warm up in social settings.  Let it be for a while. Lesa

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I saw a show a few months back about children who were overly shy.  It was almost as if they were suffering from compulsive obsessive disorder, but it was manifesting itself through their shyness.  I wish I could remember the name of the disorder.  All I really remember about it was that it will only get worse without some sort of intervention.  They had some children on the show who no longer even spoke with their parents. I am not a psychologist and really have no way of know whether or not your little one is going through this.  It was just what you had posted that sounded very familiar to this episode. I also remember from the show, that many times it isn’t so much from shyness that they stop talking.  But more from fear of making a mistake.  Either the wrong answer, pronouncing a word wrong,  using the wrong word, what ever. And yes it could start as early as four, if I remember correctly one of the children’s parents noticed signs at age three. I hope this isn’t the case.  But if things get worse, it may be worth looking into. Heidi — Would you like a home-based business?  Ask me what is working for me and my family.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m hoping someone can help because we’re at a loss.  We have a child > (now 4) so is fine talking with us and other children (one-on-one) but > when it comes to talking to adults or at school (in a class of 20) he > shuts right now.  He won’t talk to anyone and when people ask him > questions he just turns away and doesn’t answer.  If we’re around > he’ll just look at us and not say anything.  We wait for 10 seconds > and then we generally re-ask the question from us. > We’re trying to figure out how to get him to open up.  As I said > before he’s fine with us and most other kids one-on-one.  Also when > his grandparents take him out he doesn’t STOP talking.  But he doesn’t > talk to his grandparents when we are around.  It’s very difficult. > Also his jr-kindergarten teacher doesn’t think he can talk.  She asks > him questions and he never answers. > He very smart for his age (what every parent thinks) and there are no > other problems.  He has two younger brothers (2-1/2 years and 1 month > old).  The problem seems to have gotten worse since he start school (3 > months ago).  The teacher says he’s very happy in school but he just > doesn’t talk. > Help!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’m hoping someone can help because we’re at a loss.  We have a child > (now 4) so is fine talking with us and other children (one-on-one) but > when it comes to talking to adults or at school (in a class of 20) he > shuts right now.  He won’t talk to anyone and when people ask him > questions he just turns away and doesn’t answer.  If we’re around > he’ll just look at us and not say anything.  We wait for 10 seconds > and then we generally re-ask the question from us. > We’re trying to figure out how to get him to open up.  As I said > before he’s fine with us and most other kids one-on-one.  Also when > his grandparents take him out he doesn’t STOP talking.  But he doesn’t > talk to his grandparents when we are around.  It’s very difficult. > Also his jr-kindergarten teacher doesn’t think he can talk.  She asks > him questions and he never answers. > He very smart for his age (what every parent thinks) and there are no > other problems.  He has two younger brothers (2-1/2 years and 1 month > old).  The problem seems to have gotten worse since he start school (3 > months ago).  The teacher says he’s very happy in school but he just > doesn’t talk. > Help!

He is getting gobs of attention for being different — but this is a difference that is not going to do him much good in the long run.  I would be tempted to consult with a behavioral psychologist about developing a program to get him talking — much like you desensitize people to a fear, you can move them towards doing something.

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4 seems awfully young to be in a structured (jr. kindergarten class) maybe he is intimidated. I would back off and let him alone. Not every kid has to be outgoing and social in every situation.

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> 4 seems awfully young to be in a structured (jr. kindergarten class) > maybe he is intimidated. I would back off and let him alone. Not every > kid has to be outgoing and social in every situation.

A good who has developed an elaborate way to ignore adults in social situations [thus drawing attention to himself as 'the shy one' the special one etc] is not just ‘less outgoing’ than usual.

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While reading your post my first thought was that he waits for your prompt before he will talk to strangers, but it is doubtful if he is doing that in school where he knows you are not, and are not likely to be, present.  From your description it is hard to really figure out *why* this is going on and, therefore, if there is a problem.  Let me ask you a few questions, however, to see if there might be a way to narrow down some of the possibilities. First, have you taught him not to talk to strangers?  If so, perhaps you have over-emphasized this lesson or he is particularly sensitive to lessons of this sort.  You may need to moderate it somewhat if this is the possible issue. Second, does he socialize with children and adults outside of structured situations there he is clearly under your direct eye at all times [i.e.: large family gatherings, gatherings of several adults with children, etc.]? If not, this would be a great opportunity to develop his social talking skills while you are around but not assisting much [security issue?] and interact with adults and children.  If he is, is he socializing with many people or prefering to remain a quieter on-looker or participant?  He may just prefer to be the quieter person, may be sensitive to noise, may not feel secure in his abilities yet to interact with many others, etc.  Anyway, four years old isn’t that old.  If you are really concerned, consult with your pediatrician or early childhood development expert who could spend a bit of time observing him in several different types of situations. – Aula

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m hoping someone can help because we’re at a loss.  We have a child > (now 4) so is fine talking with us and other children (one-on-one) but > when it comes to talking to adults or at school (in a class of 20) he > shuts right now.  He won’t talk to anyone and when people ask him > questions he just turns away and doesn’t answer.  If we’re around > he’ll just look at us and not say anything.  We wait for 10 seconds > and then we generally re-ask the question from us. > We’re trying to figure out how to get him to open up.  As I said > before he’s fine with us and most other kids one-on-one.  Also when > his grandparents take him out he doesn’t STOP talking.  But he doesn’t > talk to his grandparents when we are around.  It’s very difficult. > Also his jr-kindergarten teacher doesn’t think he can talk.  She asks > him questions and he never answers. > He very smart for his age (what every parent thinks) and there are no > other problems.  He has two younger brothers (2-1/2 years and 1 month > old).  The problem seems to have gotten worse since he start school (3 > months ago).  The teacher says he’s very happy in school but he just > doesn’t talk. > Help!

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I’m hoping someone can help because we’re at a loss.  We have a child (now 4) so is fine talking with us and other children (one-on-one) but when it comes to talking to adults or at school (in a class of 20) he shuts right now.  He won’t talk to anyone and when people ask him questions he just turns away and doesn’t answer.  If we’re around he’ll just look at us and not say anything.  We wait for 10 seconds and then we generally re-ask the question from us. We’re trying to figure out how to get him to open up.  As I said before he’s fine with us and most other kids one-on-one.  Also when his grandparents take him out he doesn’t STOP talking.  But he doesn’t talk to his grandparents when we are around.  It’s very difficult. Also his jr-kindergarten teacher doesn’t think he can talk.  She asks him questions and he never answers. He very smart for his age (what every parent thinks) and there are no other problems.  He has two younger brothers (2-1/2 years and 1 month old).  The problem seems to have gotten worse since he start school (3 months ago).  The teacher says he’s very happy in school but he just doesn’t talk. Help!

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Lesa, I’m smack dab in the heart of good ole Milwaukee, WI.

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> Lesa, > I’m smack dab in the heart of good ole Milwaukee, WI.

KEWL!!  Hub’s from Waukesha & has lots of family around the Milwaukee area (West Allis, Hartland, New Berlin).  I’m from Beaver Dam, but went to college in Waukesha–and spent lots of time in Milwukee on the good ole Fashionable East Side (although most of our hang-outs are no longer there). Lesa

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I have an aunt (and family) in New Berlin, along with my grandmother, and an uncle (and family) just outside Milwaukee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Lesa, > I’m smack dab in the heart of good ole Milwaukee, WI. >KEWL!!  Hub’s from Waukesha & has lots of family around the Milwaukee area >(West Allis, Hartland, New Berlin).  I’m from Beaver Dam, but went to >college in Waukesha–and spent lots of time in Milwukee on the good ole >Fashionable East Side (although most of our hang-outs are no longer there). >Lesa

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If you bub likes water .. let them sit in the bath with some measuring cups or plastic cups a strainer etc. even just the cups in general play also the paper tubes always a hit .. or an empty shoe box peek a boo is a great one too leonie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->My 6-month-old is bored! =) >What kinds of games and/or toys (inexpensive or free) do your infants play >with? Or what kind of activities do they like? > Banging on upside down saucepans with a wooden spoon.  Shouting > down one of those cardboard inner tubes from toilet paper or paper > towels.  Singing (action type games like "This little piggy" or "Round and > round the garden").  Mirrors.  Water play (possibly for a bit older – > depends if he can sit up or not) – sit them in the kitchen sink with some > plastic beakers, spoons etc.  Making a tower and having them knock it > down > I think you’re right about not buying toys – although toys REALLY come > into their own later, I can’t actually think of a single toy (with the > exception of the baby walker) that any of my six months olds got any > more than passing pleasure from. > — > C > Mama to Peter (3), Isabel (20 months) > Georgia and Anna (10 months) > and little peanut due April 2000 > I wanted to get out and change the world, but I couldn’t find a babysitter

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Our daughter liked music at this age. Anything musical- we would play lively music (mostly classical) on the stereo and dance with her, let her press the keys of our mini organ and make her own music, and she had a musical tortoise that played 12 different tunes when you pressed a key. She also liked various rattles, bells, maracas, foot or hand jangles, squeeky toys etc. Balls were also a favourite, soft foam ones she could grasp and balls that made sounds while they rolled. Also those plastic bath books which she would chew with great delight. Soon after 6 months we introduced her to the Baby Mozart video, which she finds fascinating to this day. She is still a lover of music and sound too… and balls…. but she has ceased chewing on the bath books! ;-} –Lisa Bell SAHM/WAHM to Gabriella (14 months) #2 due 22FEB2000 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->My 6-month-old is bored! =) >What kinds of games and/or toys (inexpensive or free) do your infants play >with? Or what kind of activities do they like? >I’m looking for some new ideas to try to keep my son, Sean, interested and >break up the monotony that has become our "routine". We used to go for walks >outside when the house got boring, but I live in WI and it’s too cold for >that now. I am considering mall-walking, but the impulse to buy is so >great(!) and I don’t want Sean to sleep in the stroller (I cherish those >sleeping moments too much!!), so mall-walking isn’t an every day option. (I >have also been considering buying a backpack for this purpose. Any >suggestions/reviews???) >DH and I really don’t want Sean to have *too* many toys…. But I am willing >to spend a few bucks on some good, quality toys, games or activities for my >son and I. >As a side note, Sean does have a walker/exersaucer and also a >johnny-jump-up, which he likes. But those, too, are becoming "old hat" it >seems. >DH and I appreciate any help…and Sean does, too, I’m sure. =) >~Shiloh

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>My 6-month-old is bored! =) >What kinds of games and/or toys (inexpensive or free) do your infants play >with? Or what kind of activities do they like?

Banging on upside down saucepans with a wooden spoon.  Shouting down one of those cardboard inner tubes from toilet paper or paper towels.  Singing (action type games like "This little piggy" or "Round and round the garden").  Mirrors.  Water play (possibly for a bit older – depends if he can sit up or not) – sit them in the kitchen sink with some plastic beakers, spoons etc.  Making a tower and having them knock it down I think you’re right about not buying toys – although toys REALLY come into their own later, I can’t actually think of a single toy (with the exception of the baby walker) that any of my six months olds got any more than passing pleasure from. — C Mama to Peter (3), Isabel (20 months) Georgia and Anna (10 months) and little peanut due April 2000 I wanted to get out and change the world, but I couldn’t find a babysitter

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Six months is kind of young, but here’s an excellent site for kids 2 or 3 & up. http://web.missouri.edu/~weeksc/games/ — The CROKINOLE Board http://www.frontiernet.net/~crokinol

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I fixed up one floor level cabinet in the kitchen with unbreakable things, mostly tupperware, wooden spoons, etc. so my son could crawl around and play with stuff like that when I was cooking. I did the stroller walks outside, even when it was quite cold, just bundled him up.  Fresh air is great!  Just don’t overdo it. We did use a backpack, but my DH used it more; it was uncomfortable for me for very long. I put DS in the johnny jump up and turned on the Nutcracker music.  He loved that! Toys:  those cardboard blocks that look like bricks.  My son loved those.  Even before he could actually stack them himself, we would build a wall around him or a window, etc. and play peek a boo.  And he loved knocking them down.  Another good toy is one that makes noises when the baby pushes something. Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My 6-month-old is bored! =) > What kinds of games and/or toys (inexpensive or free) do your infants play > with? Or what kind of activities do they like? > I’m looking for some new ideas to try to keep my son, Sean, interested and > break up the monotony that has become our "routine". We used to go for >walks > outside when the house got boring, but I live in WI and it’s too cold for > that now. I am considering mall-walking, but the impulse to buy is so > great(!) and I don’t want Sean to sleep in the stroller (I cherish those > sleeping moments too much!!), so mall-walking isn’t an every day option. >(I > have also been considering buying a backpack for this purpose. Any > suggestions/reviews???) > DH and I really don’t want Sean to have *too* many toys…. But I am >willing > to spend a few bucks on some good, quality toys, games or activities for >my > son and I. > As a side note, Sean does have a walker/exersaucer and also a > johnny-jump-up, which he likes. But those, too, are becoming "old hat" it > seems. > DH and I appreciate any help…and Sean does, too, I’m sure. =) > ~Shiloh

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How about patty-cake, itsy bitsy spider?  I liked the idea someone wrote about the household stuff – kitchen stuff should be a big hit.  Measuring cups, measuring spoons.  Hate to suggest a video, but have you ever heard of a video called Baby Mozart?  My son adored this video.  It was great for when he was awake but really needed to calm down and nothing else worked.  I had some audio tapes, children’s music, that I used to play for my son and I’d sing the songs for him, he liked that.  He liked when I made the stuffed animals dance around too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My 6-month-old is bored! =) > What kinds of games and/or toys (inexpensive or free) do your infants play > with? Or what kind of activities do they like? > I’m looking for some new ideas to try to keep my son, Sean, interested and > break up the monotony that has become our "routine". We used to go for walks > outside when the house got boring, but I live in WI and it’s too cold for > that now. I am considering mall-walking, but the impulse to buy is so > great(!) and I don’t want Sean to sleep in the stroller (I cherish those > sleeping moments too much!!), so mall-walking isn’t an every day option. (I > have also been considering buying a backpack for this purpose. Any > suggestions/reviews???) > DH and I really don’t want Sean to have *too* many toys…. But I am willing > to spend a few bucks on some good, quality toys, games or activities for my > son and I. > As a side note, Sean does have a walker/exersaucer and also a > johnny-jump-up, which he likes. But those, too, are becoming "old hat" it > seems. > DH and I appreciate any help…and Sean does, too, I’m sure. =) > ~Shiloh

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> My 6-month-old is bored! =)

Rotating toys can help.  A toy becomes much more exciting if it hasn’t been seen for a week. > What kinds of games and/or toys (inexpensive or free) do your infants play > with? Or what kind of activities do they like?

We go to the pet shop to look at the animals.  We go to the grocery store and I point out and name all the fruits and vegetables. > outside when the house got boring, but I live in WI and it’s too cold for > that now. I am considering mall-walking, but the impulse to buy is so > great(!) and I don’t want Sean to sleep in the stroller (I cherish those > sleeping moments too much!!), so mall-walking isn’t an every day option. (I > have also been considering buying a backpack for this purpose. Any > suggestions/reviews???)

I walk in the mall with other mothers.  Having a group helps keep me from going into the stores to shop.  I carried my daughter in a front pack when smaller and in a backpack when larger.  She tends to sleep either way, which is a problem since I need rest too. > DH and I really don’t want Sean to have *too* many toys…. But I am willing

I used to feel that way, then I saw ho much my daughter was learning from her toys.  I went to the church and playgroup rummage sales and got lots of toys at very little cost ($2.00 – $5.00) per grocery bag full. > As a side note, Sean does have a walker/exersaucer and also a > johnny-jump-up, which he likes. But those, too, are becoming "old hat" it > seems.

You might try taking them away alternately for 5-7 days. –Betsy

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Try peek a boo.  Later on this turns into a wondeful game of hide and seek. Give him some books and read to him alot.  Children are never too young to love reading.  The act of reading and the time spent with you is rewarding.  You could also check out your local library for infant story time.  Our library has an infant morning,  they do songs and fingerplays and read picture books, it is mostly a great time to spend with other mothers and your child gets to interact with the other babies.  You could also see if there are any playgroups in your neighbourhood.  Often churches will have these for minimal surcharge and some community centres offer playgroups for a yearly fee.  (around 25.00)  IT can be a wonderful way to meet other moms and your child gets to interact.  You could take him to the park.  Kids his age usually love swings.  Even if it is cold out, as long as he is bundled, it can be quite fun.  At night take a walk and look at all the christmas lights.  We do this at least once a week, my kids love it. — zipper For lots of parenting tips and other useful information regarding childcare, visit my website! http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare/index.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->My 6-month-old is bored! =) >What kinds of games and/or toys (inexpensive or free) do your infants play >with? Or what kind of activities do they like? >I’m looking for some new ideas to try to keep my son, Sean, interested and >break up the monotony that has become our "routine". We used to go for walks >outside when the house got boring, but I live in WI and it’s too cold for >that now. I am considering mall-walking, but the impulse to buy is so >great(!) and I don’t want Sean to sleep in the stroller (I cherish those >sleeping moments too much!!), so mall-walking isn’t an every day option. (I >have also been considering buying a backpack for this purpose. Any >suggestions/reviews???) >DH and I really don’t want Sean to have *too* many toys…. But I am willing >to spend a few bucks on some good, quality toys, games or activities for my >son and I. >As a side note, Sean does have a walker/exersaucer and also a >johnny-jump-up, which he likes. But those, too, are becoming "old hat" it >seems. >DH and I appreciate any help…and Sean does, too, I’m sure. =) >~Shiloh

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Your best toys are probably already in your home, especially in your > kitchen.  At this age your child is starting to get around independently but > her attention span and fine motor skills are still developing, to put things > mildly.  The exercauser is a good help, with some items in the tray [does it > have one?] to manipulate and bang.  Things like wooden spoons and measuring > cups [plastic nesting ones] come to mind, clean yogurt containers [a la > Beyer's] were real handy in our house at that stage.  Board and washable > books are a probable hit at this age or soon, as are various teething type > toys like plastic key rings.  Keep in mind nearly everything will go in her > mouth multiple times, if not seem to reside there when teething hard.  In my > opinion, store bought stuff for this age is not necessary, as so many things > around your kitchen will be quite interesting.  If you have not obtained one > of those jumping things to hang in doorways, consider it.  They are > wonderful when you need to know where your wide awake short person is but > need to be concentrating on something else like dinner. > – Aula

These are great ideas.  I’d also add that as he gets older and moves around more a supply of large boxes is great.  You can make tunnels out them, or stack them into walls to move around and peek over.  The big board story books are wonderful too-even the soft sqishy ones. Being a transplanted cheesehead I’m wondering where in WI you live. Lesa – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My 6-month-old is bored! =) > What kinds of games and/or toys (inexpensive or free) do your infants play > with? Or what kind of activities do they like? > I’m looking for some new ideas to try to keep my son, Sean, interested and > break up the monotony that has become our "routine". We used to go for > walks > outside when the house got boring, but I live in WI and it’s too cold for > that now. I am considering mall-walking, but the impulse to buy is so > great(!) and I don’t want Sean to sleep in the stroller (I cherish those > sleeping moments too much!!), so mall-walking isn’t an every day option. > (I > have also been considering buying a backpack for this purpose. Any > suggestions/reviews???) > DH and I really don’t want Sean to have *too* many toys…. But I am > willing > to spend a few bucks on some good, quality toys, games or activities for > my > son and I. > As a side note, Sean does have a walker/exersaucer and also a > johnny-jump-up, which he likes. But those, too, are becoming "old hat" it > seems. > DH and I appreciate any help…and Sean does, too, I’m sure. =) > ~Shiloh

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My 6-month-old is bored! =) What kinds of games and/or toys (inexpensive or free) do your infants play with? Or what kind of activities do they like? I’m looking for some new ideas to try to keep my son, Sean, interested and break up the monotony that has become our "routine". We used to go for walks outside when the house got boring, but I live in WI and it’s too cold for that now. I am considering mall-walking, but the impulse to buy is so great(!) and I don’t want Sean to sleep in the stroller (I cherish those sleeping moments too much!!), so mall-walking isn’t an every day option. (I have also been considering buying a backpack for this purpose. Any suggestions/reviews???) DH and I really don’t want Sean to have *too* many toys…. But I am willing to spend a few bucks on some good, quality toys, games or activities for my son and I. As a side note, Sean does have a walker/exersaucer and also a johnny-jump-up, which he likes. But those, too, are becoming "old hat" it seems. DH and I appreciate any help…and Sean does, too, I’m sure. =) ~Shiloh

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Your best toys are probably already in your home, especially in your kitchen.  At this age your child is starting to get around independently but her attention span and fine motor skills are still developing, to put things mildly.  The exercauser is a good help, with some items in the tray [does it have one?] to manipulate and bang.  Things like wooden spoons and measuring cups [plastic nesting ones] come to mind, clean yogurt containers [a la Beyer's] were real handy in our house at that stage.  Board and washable books are a probable hit at this age or soon, as are various teething type toys like plastic key rings.  Keep in mind nearly everything will go in her mouth multiple times, if not seem to reside there when teething hard.  In my opinion, store bought stuff for this age is not necessary, as so many things around your kitchen will be quite interesting.  If you have not obtained one of those jumping things to hang in doorways, consider it.  They are wonderful when you need to know where your wide awake short person is but need to be concentrating on something else like dinner. – Aula – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My 6-month-old is bored! =) > What kinds of games and/or toys (inexpensive or free) do your infants play > with? Or what kind of activities do they like? > I’m looking for some new ideas to try to keep my son, Sean, interested and > break up the monotony that has become our "routine". We used to go for walks > outside when the house got boring, but I live in WI and it’s too cold for > that now. I am considering mall-walking, but the impulse to buy is so > great(!) and I don’t want Sean to sleep in the stroller (I cherish those > sleeping moments too much!!), so mall-walking isn’t an every day option. (I > have also been considering buying a backpack for this purpose. Any > suggestions/reviews???) > DH and I really don’t want Sean to have *too* many toys…. But I am willing > to spend a few bucks on some good, quality toys, games or activities for my > son and I. > As a side note, Sean does have a walker/exersaucer and also a > johnny-jump-up, which he likes. But those, too, are becoming "old hat" it > seems. > DH and I appreciate any help…and Sean does, too, I’m sure. =) > ~Shiloh

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>However, how would YOU handle, other than with a method like 123, those >children who simply do not "get it"?

Although I haven’t used it yet, I would use a method I’ve seen work. It involves timeouts of 5 to 10 seconds combined with constant supervision and immediate intervention. You have to get very ‘in your face’ with the child. You can’t tell the child ‘no cookie’ from across the room, you have to get right in there, give the child your full undivided attention. You must let them know that from now on the rules have been changed. No long explanations, no threats and immediate reaction from you to the offending behavior. This also has to be combined with rewards for good behavior. For example most people leave their kids alone when they are quietly enjoying themselves. This is the time to tell them how good they are for playing by themselves and letting daddy read the paper. The rewards are as simple as a smile or a pat on the back, not material rewards. Its seems to be pretty much a constant feedback system. I saw this method used on a show called Real Families, I’m not sure if you get it in the States, although it seems to be set in Boston. A child psychologist helps people with discipline problems such as whining, crying, sleep and potty problems. What’s good about the show is that they install a camera inside the home for a month to show the before and after effects. The Web site is www.realfamilies.net (I’m just a viewer, no connection to them) I’ve only done a little research on it, but I believe the methods are derived from techniques used with autistic children. It is initially hard work, but the before and after footage is truly amazing. I would certainly consider it if I have hard to discipline children. >Haven’t you EVER heard "I’ve repeated >[...] until I was blue in face, [...] still doesn’t understand!!!". This >applies to a lot of children. In such situations, you explain that whining >is not apprepriate, the child goes on whining, you try to ignore the >whining, by saying something along the lines: I’ll listen to you once you >use your nice voice. The child goes on whining, often louder. Your nerves >are getting "very" frazzled.

Simply say "I know you would like a cookie now, but you can’t eat cookies before dinner, otherwise you won’t be able to eat all your dinner. You can have a drink of juice or a glass of milk, which do you want?". That’s it. No more explanations or repeating until your blue in the face. >The whining goes on. At this point, you either >give in and do whatever the child wants, or get really angry and start >doing some whining of your own, or some yelling. Either option is wrong:

You must ignore it, no giving in, no getting angry. This is the hard part. If the whining frazzles me, the problem is mine not the child’s. I must learn how to deal with it. I can deep breath, remove myself or keep reminding myself I’m helping my son. >the child learns that the longer he whines, the more likely he’ll succeed. >Or the situation gets so totally out of hand that the matter cannot be >resolved.

Never, ever give in to the whining, that way the child will never learn that he can succeed. I agree that if you do give in, the situation will get out of hand, you can’t send mixed messages. >What the 123 method offers is a type of bridge, for such situations. You >express that you don’t like whining, with a statement such as: I’ll listen >to you once you use your nice voice. If the child does a valiant effort at >speaking in a normal voice, mission accomplished. If the child keeps on >whining, you say "That’s 1". Now, children are told before you start using >the method, just what to expect. So, the child knows what "That’s 1" means. >You wait a little, if the child is still whining, you say "That’s 2". Now, >the child knows its his/her last chance. At first, the child will keep >going. However, after a few days, or a few weeks of consistantly using the >method, the child will know what is in store and will usually stop at this >point.

I don’t dispute that it stops the whining, I’m positive it does. What I’m disputing is what is being taught. Imagine someone using that technique on you. The only time I can envision adults using something similar to ‘that’s one’, ‘that’s two’ is in a hostile exchange. I can’t see how it teaches children to manage their wants and communication. From what I gather, you have to tell other people to use the 123magic method when dealing with your child, it doesn’t actually teach your child how to manage their own wants. Would it not be better to have the child come to the self realization; ‘Hey, whining does not get me anything, including cookies before dinner’ >BTW, a time out is NOT really a punishment. It is simply breathing time to >calm down and walk away from the situation.

I agree in and of itself time outs are not punishment. The way it’s used in the 123 method is basically, ‘if you don’t stop, something is going to happen to you’, that something is the time-out. It is arguable, but I think that is punishment. > if you teach a child to manage their wants when it comes to cookies > before dinner, that skill can then be used by the child in other > situations. >That’s very easy to say, not so easy to do.

Agreed, it’s hard work, I’m hoping that it turns into a habit for me so I can do it without thinking. If you simply want to stop children whining, then 123Magic is probably the easiest way to do it, maybe with the exception of spanking, which both of us don’t agree with. >The 123 method was developed >specifically for ADHDers.

Okay, I didn’t know that. If your child has a medical problem then forget all my viewpoints and opinions, they probably won’t work. I know that discipline methods that I may not agree with are perfectly acceptable when used in these circumstances. > I know that many people believe that this form of discipline consists > of days full of children whining and crying and soft parents trying to > reason and pleading with their children constantly, but it’s not. The > key (for me anyway) is consistency. >Yes, consistency is important. And teaching the difference between >acceptable and un-acceptable behaviors is important. The 123 method is just >of of those methods that allow the parents of the least compliant children >to reach that goal. You can be a very disciplined parent and still have a >very hard to discipline child.

If all else fails, then yes, 123magic should be used. There are too many situations to rule out all methods of discipline. Except spanking, I know of no situation that justifies that. Paul

Response:

Great Post!!! I think you grasped it beautifully.  You probably did a much better job of explaining it than I did.  I am glad that it is working for you.  It has been just over two weeks for us now.  I only have to count once or twice during the day, now.  He knows that when mommy says no, it is the end of the subject.  And when I do have to count, it is rare that it goes past one. He is a pretty good kid, but was really getting into the argumentative and whining stage.  Are primary goal with our kids is to create within them independence and self-assurance.  We give him as many choices as possible, example: Would you like peas or carrots for supper?  Do you want mommy or daddy to put you to bed?   The options aren’t whether or not to have vegetables for supper or whether or not he is going to bed, but he does get some choices. Giving them decisions in their own life eliminates many, many problems.  But there are times when a child is argumentative or whiny just for the sake of being that way.  They are usually trying to gain the upper hand over the parent, even in very small children. With the 123Magic giving us control over piddly little arguments, I have even been brave enough to ask why he doesn’t want to do something or why he wants something he knows he isn’t supposed to have.  I say ‘brave enough’, because I know I won’t get the whiny or scream in my face response.  "I WANT IT NOW!!!!" or "I don’t waaaaaaaaaant to geeeeeeet in the tuuuuuuuub." Sometimes I get an answer that I can agree with and he will get his way.  I think this approach is teaching very good communication skills.  Other times, he was just testing me and either starts the whining and I say "That’s one" or he just decides to do or not do what he is supposed to do. The older he gets the more I want to communicate with him and allow him to have more say in his life.  But until he has more experience in life and can communicate closer to my level, I am the adult and I am the one in charge. I think this gives children a sense of security to know that they have a stable environment with set boundaries.  They can influence their life to some degree, but that they are totally protected by their parents and do not have the responsibility of caring or fending for themselves. Okay, I am done rambling.  Danielle did a much better job than I of explaining, so I will shut up now.  Just wanted to say congrats and I am glad it is working for her. Heidi — Would you like a home-based business?  Ask me what is working for me and my family.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What strikes me in particular is that although in the OP’s example the > child was told he could not have a cookie before dinner, the voiced > threat/warning "that’s one" didn’t relate to the cookie at all. > Like you, I was doubtful of the method, but decided to give it a try. The > method is especially good for those problem children, with whom traditional > discipline does not work. What the methods does is prevent the situation > from escalading to the point where EVERYONE, including the parents, is out > of control. "That’s 1" DOES refer to the cookie because the child has > already been told that he could’nt have the cookie, and he/she is STILL > going on. One of the mistakes we make is to fall right into the child’s > trap of arguing a non issue: the child obviously understand he/she can’t > have a cookie and there is no need to go on explaining WHY he/she can’t > have the cookie. > Presumably the child is being threatened with time out for whining, > yet he hasn’t been told this. > No, the child is being told, in no uncertain time, that the discussion has > ended and the he/she has another chance at letting it go, because, once you > reach "That’s 3", it is, automatically, "Take 5". Whining is only one of > the methods the child will try to get to you. Others include: threatening, > flattering, trying to break you down by how pitiful they are, etc. >  Again, I can see this method being used > for children who have already been told over and over again not to > whine and continue to do so while knowing they must not, but I can’t > help thinking it would be more effective to ignore the whining in the > first place, consistently demonstrating it will achieve nothing and > remove the motivation. > I guess you don’t know my children: the whining will go on for ever if it > is ignored!!! This method is one of the best because of several things: > It is simple > It is consistant > It works > However, the most important reason, is that it takes place BEFORE the > situation gets out of hand and everyone, children and parents, have worked > themselves in a frenzy. > What more do you want. And it does not mean no talking to your children > about what is right and what is wrong, it means doing at a time other than > during the crisis, when EVERYONE is calmer and ready for the information. > I agree with you that this method is most likely preferred by those of us > who have difficult to discipline children (notice the fact that I didn’t > write UN-disciplined – I found out that it is perfectly possible to try > your best, with the best methods, to discipline some children, without > success), however, this method works for everyone. Some children get the > message and only have to be counted a few times, with others, the method > becomes a part of your life. However, most families reach a point, as in > ours, of only having to get to 1 or 2, and rarely getting to 3. > — > Danielle, > Maman to Marc-Andre – May 22, 1991 and Genevieve – Dec. 18, 1995 and > recently weaned > Writing from Canada > Parent-L Birth secretary > Visit my new web-page, view new pics of the kids, and, please, sign my > guest-book!! http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/home.html > My ICQ # is 6463692 > Canadian Special Education Chat Room – > http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/canspec.html > &canspec ICQ # 33710657

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->When you have listened to whining…all day…which is quite common for children >to do…you do what you have to survive and keep your sanity in tact. A 1-2-3 >method is better than a spank or yell in anger.  IMO.  If the child knows what >he is doing is wrong, and has been told before to stop the behaviour, he need >not be reminded again. >We are parents not martyrs. > IMHO, when we want to stop a child from whining, we should be teaching > that whining is inappropriate and that they should use their newly > acquired skills to communicate better or handle their wants. I don’t > think we should teach them that whining or wanting a cookie is ‘wrong’ > or ‘bad’ or something that is to be punished.

However, how would YOU handle, other than with a method like 123, those children who simply do not "get it"? Haven’t you EVER heard "I’ve repeated [...] until I was blue in face, [...] still doesn’t understand!!!". This applies to a lot of children. In such situations, you explain that whining is not apprepriate, the child goes on whining, you try to ignore the whining, by saying something along the lines: I’ll listen to you once you use your nice voice. The child goes on whining, often louder. Your nerves are getting "very" frazzled. The whining goes on. At this point, you either give in and do whatever the child wants, or get really angry and start doing some whining of your own, or some yelling. Either option is wrong: the child learns that the longer he whines, the more likely he’ll succeed. Or the situation gets so totally out of hand that the matter cannot be resolved. What the 123 method offers is a type of bridge, for such situations. You express that you don’t like whining, with a statement such as: I’ll listen to you once you use your nice voice. If the child does a valiant effort at speaking in a normal voice, mission accomplished. If the child keeps on whining, you say "That’s 1". Now, children are told before you start using the method, just what to expect. So, the child knows what "That’s 1" means. You wait a little, if the child is still whining, you say "That’s 2". Now, the child knows its his/her last chance. At first, the child will keep going. However, after a few days, or a few weeks of consistantly using the method, the child will know what is in store and will usually stop at this point. BTW, a time out is NOT really a punishment. It is simply breathing time to calm down and walk away from the situation. > I personally believe that the 123 method, and others such as yelling > and spanking, are popular because the reward is for the parent and is > instant. Using the 123 method to stop the child from whining for a > cookie before diner works for that situation for that person. Instead, > if you teach a child to manage their wants when it comes to cookies > before dinner, that skill can then be used by the child in other > situations.

That’s very easy to say, not so easy to do. The 123 method was developed specifically for ADHDers. Dr. Phelan’s son has ADHD. Among other issues, ADHDers are VERY impulsive and have a lot of trouble managing their wants, because they see them as needs. Since ADHD is hereditary, it is easy for the ADHD parent, especially if this parent is concentrating on getting the supper ready and his/her own ability for control is at its limit to loose it. What this method offers is a time to calm down and walk away from the situation BEFORE it escalattes. It does NOT only benefit the parents, because it gives the child a chance to control the result of the intervention: If I stop whatever I am doing at "That’s 1", I avoid time out. Even if I stop at "That’s 2", I avoid time out. Spanking is not, IMO, a form of discipline, though some use it as such. And yelling is simply a loss of control on the part of the parent. The 123 method is one method where EVERYONE concerned has a little bit of control. > I know that many people believe that this form of discipline consists > of days full of children whining and crying and soft parents trying to > reason and pleading with their children constantly, but it’s not. The > key (for me anyway) is consistency.

Yes, consistency is important. And teaching the difference between acceptable and un-acceptable behaviors is important. The 123 method is just of of those methods that allow the parents of the least compliant children to reach that goal. You can be a very disciplined parent and still have a very hard to discipline child. — Danielle, Maman to Marc-Andre – May 22, 1991 and Genevieve – Dec. 18, 1995 and recently weaned Writing from Canada Parent-L Birth secretary Visit my new web-page, view new pics of the kids, and, please, sign my guest-book!! http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/home.html My ICQ # is 6463692 Canadian Special Education Chat Room – http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/canspec.html &canspec ICQ # 33710657

Response:

> What strikes me in particular is that although in the OP’s example the > child was told he could not have a cookie before dinner, the voiced > threat/warning "that’s one" didn’t relate to the cookie at all.

Like you, I was doubtful of the method, but decided to give it a try. The method is especially good for those problem children, with whom traditional discipline does not work. What the methods does is prevent the situation from escalading to the point where EVERYONE, including the parents, is out of control. "That’s 1" DOES refer to the cookie because the child has already been told that he could’nt have the cookie, and he/she is STILL going on. One of the mistakes we make is to fall right into the child’s trap of arguing a non issue: the child obviously understand he/she can’t have a cookie and there is no need to go on explaining WHY he/she can’t have the cookie. > Presumably the child is being threatened with time out for whining, > yet he hasn’t been told this.

No, the child is being told, in no uncertain time, that the discussion has ended and the he/she has another chance at letting it go, because, once you reach "That’s 3", it is, automatically, "Take 5". Whining is only one of the methods the child will try to get to you. Others include: threatening, flattering, trying to break you down by how pitiful they are, etc.  Again, I can see this method being used > for children who have already been told over and over again not to > whine and continue to do so while knowing they must not, but I can’t > help thinking it would be more effective to ignore the whining in the > first place, consistently demonstrating it will achieve nothing and > remove the motivation.

I guess you don’t know my children: the whining will go on for ever if it is ignored!!! This method is one of the best because of several things: It is simple It is consistant It works However, the most important reason, is that it takes place BEFORE the situation gets out of hand and everyone, children and parents, have worked themselves in a frenzy. What more do you want. And it does not mean no talking to your children about what is right and what is wrong, it means doing at a time other than during the crisis, when EVERYONE is calmer and ready for the information. I agree with you that this method is most likely preferred by those of us who have difficult to discipline children (notice the fact that I didn’t write UN-disciplined – I found out that it is perfectly possible to try your best, with the best methods, to discipline some children, without success), however, this method works for everyone. Some children get the message and only have to be counted a few times, with others, the method becomes a part of your life. However, most families reach a point, as in ours, of only having to get to 1 or 2, and rarely getting to 3. — Danielle, Maman to Marc-Andre – May 22, 1991 and Genevieve – Dec. 18, 1995 and recently weaned Writing from Canada Parent-L Birth secretary Visit my new web-page, view new pics of the kids, and, please, sign my guest-book!! http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/home.html My ICQ # is 6463692 Canadian Special Education Chat Room – http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/canspec.html &canspec ICQ # 33710657

Response:

>I agree with Paul. I don’t yet have children the right age to try this >stuff out on but I find the idea of trying to "control" my children >inherently hostile.

I see you have a 15 month old. that’s probably old enough to start. I have a 14 month old and I am using this ‘positive discipline’ stuff with good results. I’m a big believer in practicing. My best example was last month; I took my boy down to the mall a couple of times a week to practice walking around holding my hand. Although he didn’t like it at first and LOUDLY protested, it only took 3 weeks for him to learn. Now he offers me his hand when I put him down and I can even walk through the toy section without him want to pull everything of the shelves This weekends the big test though, Christmas shopping! Right now I’ve just started teaching the concept of ‘just a minute’ as well as starting to deal with his occasional hitting and biting. Paul

Response:

>When you have listened to whining…all day…which is quite common for children >to do…you do what you have to survive and keep your sanity in tact. A 1-2-3 >method is better than a spank or yell in anger.  IMO.  If the child knows what >he is doing is wrong, and has been told before to stop the behaviour, he need >not be reminded again. >We are parents not martyrs.

IMHO, when we want to stop a child from whining, we should be teaching that whining is inappropriate and that they should use their newly acquired skills to communicate better or handle their wants. I don’t think we should teach them that whining or wanting a cookie is ‘wrong’ or ‘bad’ or something that is to be punished. I personally believe that the 123 method, and others such as yelling and spanking, are popular because the reward is for the parent and is instant. Using the 123 method to stop the child from whining for a cookie before diner works for that situation for that person. Instead, if you teach a child to manage their wants when it comes to cookies before dinner, that skill can then be used by the child in other situations. I know that many people believe that this form of discipline consists of days full of children whining and crying and soft parents trying to reason and pleading with their children constantly, but it’s not. The key (for me anyway) is consistency. Paul

Response:

When you have listened to whining…all day…which is quite common for children to do…you do what you have to survive and keep your sanity in tact.  A 1-2-3 method is better than a spank or yell in anger.  IMO.  If the child knows what he is doing is wrong, and has been told before to stop the behaviour, he need not be reminded again. We are parents not martyrs. — zipper Check out my website: http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I agree with Paul. I don’t yet have children the right age to try this >stuff out on but I find the idea of trying to "control" my children >inherently hostile. This sounds like a method that might be useful for >children who have already become undisciplined and out of control to >the point where they no longer listen or expect any consequences, but >not an idea to start out with. >What strikes me in particular is that although in the OP’s example the >child was told he could not have a cookie before dinner, the voiced >threat/warning "that’s one" didn’t relate to the cookie at all. >Presumably the child is being threatened with time out for whining, >yet he hasn’t been told this. Again, I can see this method being used >for children who have already been told over and over again not to >whine and continue to do so while knowing they must not, but I can’t >help thinking it would be more effective to ignore the whining in the >first place, consistently demonstrating it will achieve nothing and >remove the motivation. >Again, just my 0.2 since I have yet to go through this. >–Lisa Bell >SAHM/WAHM to Gabriella (15 months) >#2 due 22FEB2000 >>I’ll offer a different opinion on this.  I don’t see this as trying to >>overly control a child or stifle his opinions.  Its purpose, according >>to the examples, was to let the child know that whining or >>disobedience would not work.  Don’t we all want our kids to learn >>that? >Yes, but you can do that without the threat/timeout part. Simply >explain and then don’t give them the cookie. The hard part is that you >have to listen to a  load of whining, but done consistently the >whining decreases until the child has finally learned, ‘no cookies >before dinner’. After dinner, give the child a cookie and tons and >tons of praise for not having a cookie beforehand. As long as you >NEVER give a cookie before dinner, the child will learn. >> If we allow ourselves to get caught up in endless explanations to a >>child who is whining to get his way or deliberately refusing to obey a >>household rule, we will end up with a child who knows all he has to do >>is keep whining, and eventually we may give him what he wants just to >>keep him quiet. >Never reward whining. Never give endless explanations. If you give in >to whining, then forget it.

Response:

I agree with Paul. I don’t yet have children the right age to try this stuff out on but I find the idea of trying to "control" my children inherently hostile. This sounds like a method that might be useful for children who have already become undisciplined and out of control to the point where they no longer listen or expect any consequences, but not an idea to start out with. What strikes me in particular is that although in the OP’s example the child was told he could not have a cookie before dinner, the voiced threat/warning "that’s one" didn’t relate to the cookie at all. Presumably the child is being threatened with time out for whining, yet he hasn’t been told this. Again, I can see this method being used for children who have already been told over and over again not to whine and continue to do so while knowing they must not, but I can’t help thinking it would be more effective to ignore the whining in the first place, consistently demonstrating it will achieve nothing and remove the motivation. Again, just my 0.2 since I have yet to go through this. –Lisa Bell SAHM/WAHM to Gabriella (15 months) #2 due 22FEB2000 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’ll offer a different opinion on this.  I don’t see this as trying to >overly control a child or stifle his opinions.  Its purpose, according >to the examples, was to let the child know that whining or >disobedience would not work.  Don’t we all want our kids to learn >that? >Yes, but you can do that without the threat/timeout part. Simply >explain and then don’t give them the cookie. The hard part is that you >have to listen to a  load of whining, but done consistently the >whining decreases until the child has finally learned, ‘no cookies >before dinner’. After dinner, give the child a cookie and tons and >tons of praise for not having a cookie beforehand. As long as you >NEVER give a cookie before dinner, the child will learn. > If we allow ourselves to get caught up in endless explanations to a >child who is whining to get his way or deliberately refusing to obey a >household rule, we will end up with a child who knows all he has to do >is keep whining, and eventually we may give him what he wants just to >keep him quiet.   >Never reward whining. Never give endless explanations. If you give in >to whining, then forget it.

Response:

> I am so curious, what would any of you do when your child refuses to put his >shoes on and you are running late for work?

Grab my son firmly by both upper arms and put my face right in front of his, about 6 inches away. In a firm, not overly stern, voice say "We are leaving the house. In order to leave the house you will have to put your shoes on. Do you want to put your shoes on yourself, or do you want me to do it for you?" If the refusal continues, I get the easiest pair of shoes to put on and put them on him, ignoring the protests. If necessary I have to pin him down while I put his shoes on. No more explanations. If he puts his shoes on he gets no end of praise, lots of playing, hugging and high fives as we walk out the door and becasue he was so fast at putting his shoes on we’ll have time to drive by the building site around the corner so he can see the big trucks. This will have to be repeated, but hopefully after a couple of times he will learn that it’s better to put the shoes on. If something like this appears to be an issue then I will have practice runs during evenings, weekends etc when there is no deadline, allowing me to put all my attention on dealing with the ’shoe problem’ Paul

Response:

>Dorothy all your suggestions are wonderful and are all things I do on a regular >basis. >However, there is the odd, time when a child is downright defiant, testing you. >These are the times I would use time outs or the 1-2-3 method. >Children lose it sometimes, parents lose it sometimes, this time to regain >control (whether I take the time out or my child does) does all of us good.

I’m not against time-outs as a method for both parent and child to regain control of their feelings.  This can be done non-punitively if you give the child control over when he or she is ready to return – that way the child knows when he is back under control on his own – it’s not an arbitrary time limit. And I agree that sometimes, we need these time-outs ourselves and we should let our kids know it.  We are human and have emotions and we shouldn’t be afraid to admit it in front of our children.  >All of your suggestions sound very easy to do in type, however I have been in >situations where a child is totally out of control…and when a child >"willingly" defies a direct command, like…"do not hit me"

With a child (depending on age) who is hitting you, it seems to me that there is a more serious problem to deal with.  If it’s a very young child who is simply frustrated and cannot deal with it because he doesn’t have the words, it is different than the problem of an older child who doesn’t know how to control his own anger.  Most of the time with a child who was hitting or kicking, physical control done calmly is not out of place.  Then you can give him a choice about stopping on his own or continuing to be prevented by your holding him. Lots here depends on the reasons and the age of the child though. >…he needs to learn that you will not accept that type of behaviour.

Agreed. >For instance, today my daughter kicked her brother because he was standing her >"blankie".  She hurt him alot.  She was sent to her room, because she made the >choice, even though she knew it was wrong…to kick him.  Yes, she was upset >that her favorite blankie was being stood on, and her feelings were >acknowledged…however, that does not give her the right to kick her

brother. Absolutely true that she should not be allowed to hit her brother. >She was told to go to her room, to think about what she had done, and when she >was ready to come back and behave in a proper fashion, she was able to return. >She came down about 10 minutes later, with a sorry card she had made for her >brother.

That is a good indication that she was sorry about the action.  So I have no problem particularly since you didn’t say go to your room for a specific period of time, but left the control up to her.  She could have come back in 1 minute or 20. The point is that it was her choice. >We also discussed what she could have done differently, next time.  She came up >with the idea that maybe she should keep her blankie in her room instead of her >room.

Again good. >I did not see her time out as a punishment but rather as a time for her think >calmly and regain control of the situation.

I agree, you used the time-out here in a non-punitive way, except that depending upon her age, I would not have stipulated thinking about her action (under 3, usually, kids are too distractible to think about the error unless you are talking with them about it, imo). Dorothy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->– >zipper >For lots of parenting tips and other useful information regarding childcare, >visit my website! >http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare/index.html

Response:

>I’ll offer a different opinion on this.  I don’t see this as trying to >overly control a child or stifle his opinions.  Its purpose, according >to the examples, was to let the child know that whining or >disobedience would not work.  Don’t we all want our kids to learn >that?

Yes, but you can do that without the threat/timeout part. Simply explain and then don’t give them the cookie. The hard part is that you have to listen to a  load of whining, but done consistently the whining decreases until the child has finally learned, ‘no cookies before dinner’. After dinner, give the child a cookie and tons and tons of praise for not having a cookie beforehand. As long as you NEVER give a cookie before dinner, the child will learn. > If we allow ourselves to get caught up in endless explanations to a >child who is whining to get his way or deliberately refusing to obey a >household rule, we will end up with a child who knows all he has to do >is keep whining, and eventually we may give him what he wants just to >keep him quiet.  

Never reward whining. Never give endless explanations. If you give in to whining, then forget it.

Response:

Dorothy all your suggestions are wonderful and are all things I do on a regular basis. However, there is the odd, time when a child is downright defiant, testing you. These are the times I would use time outs or the 1-2-3 method. Children lose it sometimes, parents lose it sometimes, this time to regain control (whether I take the time out or my child does) does all of us good.  All of your suggestions sound very easy to do in type, however I have been in situations where a child is totally out of control…and when a child "willingly" defies a direct command, like…"do not hit me"…he needs to learn that you will not accept that type of behaviour. For instance, today my daughter kicked her brother because he was standing her "blankie".  She hurt him alot.  She was sent to her room, because she made the choice, even though she knew it was wrong…to kick him.  Yes, she was upset that her favorite blankie was being stood on, and her feelings were acknowledged…however, that does not give her the right to kick her brother. She was told to go to her room, to think about what she had done, and when she was ready to come back and behave in a proper fashion, she was able to return. She came down about 10 minutes later, with a sorry card she had made for her brother. We also discussed what she could have done differently, next time.  She came up with the idea that maybe she should keep her blankie in her room instead of her room. I did not see her time out as a punishment but rather as a time for her think calmly and regain control of the situation. — zipper For lots of parenting tips and other useful information regarding childcare, visit my website! http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare/index.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I pretty much follow Dorothy’s advice at first.  I give him two choices as often as possible.  I would have told him it was time to put his shoes on. If he said no, I would have said, "Well we are leaving now, you can walk with your shoes on or mommy can carry you with your shoes off and we will put them on in the car." If for some reason it escalates and my son is hitting and kicking me (though the 123 would have stopped this by stopping the argument before the growing of emotions on you or your child’s part), I would have said "We don’t hit. That’s three.  Take five." I go right to three when it is something severe like hitting or pushing.  I put him in his room and continue getting everything else ready. When it is time to let him out of his room.  I go right back with what I started with.  "Are you ready to get your shoes on now or do you want mommy to carry you?" Like I said, this technique is a great compliment to many other parenting styles.  What it gives the parents is instant unquestionable control in situations where there isn’t time (emergency situations), reason (some stupid cookie argument), too much repetition (you have told them one hundred times not to do something and why) or the children have been out of control for so long (my sister’s children if any of you remember that post, they are doing great with this so far). I hope this answered some more questions.  Thanx zipper and klavisha for the support. Heidi — Would you like a home-based business?  Ask me what is working for me and my family.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Very well said…I agree with you on this one. > I am a mother first.  It is my mandate as a parent to teach my child the proper > ways to behave in society. >  I am so curious, what would any of you do when your child refuses to put his > shoes on and you are running late for work?  He is kicking you and slapping your > face…do you talk, "honey, I need you to put your shoes on…please…I am > going to be late…yadda yadda yadda//// > Or do you?  I told you to put your shoes on.  Do it now.  That is one…etc. and > a time out when needed. > Kids don’t inherit control, nor do they inherit self responsibility, these are > things that need to be taught, and yes example and talking are the best ways to > teach them, but when your child is out of control and acting defiantly, you need > to be the one in control. > If my child is hitting someone, they are firmly reminded that "hitting is wrong" > "We do not hit anyone", then they have to pay the price for their action. They > chose to hit, made the wrong choice.  If you as an adult, make wrong choices, > there are usually prices to pay for it; the law, fines etc. whatever…why > should it be different for kids.  What better way to teach them how society > works.  You make mistakes, sometimes bad choices have consequence.  It is cruel > to teach your kids that there are no consequences to bad choices.  These are the > ones who disrespect the law, or have no respect for authority figures. > And yes, I have wonderful and well behaved children who are respectful and > peaceful.  (Actually, both of my children won Student of the Month in two > consecutive months this year at school)  And I am proud, after all society > reflects childrens behaviour as a direct result of parenting.  Not necessarily > the right thing but they do. > — > zipper > For lots of parenting tips and other useful information regarding childcare, > visit my website! > http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare/index.html >(Long again, sorry.) >I was beginning to feel like a bad parent for disciplining my children. >Maybe that is the problem today with many children?????  (I don’t know just >guessing.)  Parents are too wrapped up in making sure that everyone thinks >they are good parents that they follow the trends in parenting and over talk >their kids.  I almost went for it myself.  I was thinking I have this >wonderful technique that works, but somehow I am injuring my children. >Jeez, I better stop. >I thought about that and what the other posters said alot last night. Yes >children should be guided through life as much as possible.  They should be >loved and the positive should always be focused on.  I think this technique >allows for all of that. >Here is an excerpt from another poster in another thread that you all have >agreed was good and I will explain how it fits with this. >-So few suggestions for parents are posted here because of the >-propaganda mongers (the "cohort"). So here are some: >-1) Try to redirect the child. >Sending to their room for five minutes. >-2) Spend quality time. >Doesn’t really apply to this technique.  This is something that you would be >doing when the child was behaving.  The better behaved the more time the >whole family can spend together and really enjoy it. >-3) Focus on the positive behaviors (reinforce appropriate behavior) >This technique totally takes the focus off of negative behavior.  If the >child is misbehaving in a way that has been discussed before, he is simply >removed from the situation.  The only time you would really be focusing on >them from this point on would be for the positive behavior. >-4) Network with other parents for non-violent solutions (avoid this >-newsgroup because it rarely offers help or support-just advances its >-singular agenda and knocks those who don’t tow their "party line") >This technique is so easy to share with others and so easy to apply.  You >could have your whole playgroup doing it after one play date. >-5) Set up learning/fun activities that keep the child actively >-involved. >Again this doesn’t really apply to this technique, but something that is >lots of fun for the whole family or for that special one-on-one bonding time >between individual children. >-6) Teach negotiation skills and help them practice these skills (needs >-to be age appropriate). >I think this technique lends itself perfectly to building these kinds of >skills.  It quickly teaches children better ways of expressing themselves >inorder to be understood and to negotiated a  means to their ends. >-7) Role play #6 (what ifs..) >This doesn’t really fit in directly with the technique, but a great way to >expand this technique. >-8) Take a time-out for yourself. >Excellent advice for anytime.  Not needed as often now, after using this >technique. >-9) Change the child’s environment if it appears to be contributing to >-the problem (time away). >Easily established with the five minute timeout in room. >-10) Practice a relaxation technique that works for you when you feel >-your temper getting the best of you (this will model appropriate >-behavior for the child too). >Great advice.  I still need to do this for arguments with my husband. >Yes we need to teach our children.  But I am not about to sit and have a >discussion on ethics and morality with my 3 year old.  Not only does he not >have the vocabulary,  but he doesn’t have the experiences yet to relate to >almost anything I would say to him.  And the experience thing goes for >nearly all children under the age of 12. >The older a child gets yes the more say they should have in their life and >the more you can discuss and explain with them.  But I am not about to argue >with a small child for even a few minutes over a cookie, a toy, or whatever. >At our play group the other day, a young mother was there with her 2yo. >This child happened to push over my 1yo.  The woman grabbed her child, told >him what he did wrong, why he did wrong, the baby could get hurt, that he >better be sorry, and that he needed to say he was sorry.  By the end of i t >the child was pulling to get away from her, me and my child.  He didn’t >care,because he is to little to understand all of that. >He would have understood.  "No, we don’t push.  That’s three. We are taking >five."  Then go and sit down for a few minutes away from the rest of the >group. >This is how our adult society works.  Why can’t we apply it to our children? >If you got pulled over by a cop for speeding, do you think he is going to >sit there and explain to you why you shouldn’t speed.  No, he is going to >give you a ticket.  Will that stop you from speeding in the future?  If you >get caught often enough maybe, but probably not.  It will however, stop you >from going a certain speed over the limit.  I doubt many of you here ever >drive 15+ mph over. >Our whole society is based on this.  We even have in our law books the 123 >and your out plan.  Why is it such a crime to use it on our children? >I want my children to learn early on that there are consequences for their >actions.  I will teach them what is wrong and why, but also that wrong has a >price.  And going to your room, full of toys and books isn’t that high of a >price to pay.  I mean really. >Heidi >– >Would you like a home-based business?  Ask me what is working for me and my >family. >> I’ll offer a different opinion on this.  I don’t see this as trying to >> overly control a child or stifle his opinions.  Its purpose, according >> to the examples, was to let the child know that whining or >> disobedience would not work.  Don’t we all want our kids to learn >> that?   The parent explained the rule to the child – that cookies were >> not going to be served just before dinner, or that toys in the store >> were not to be

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Response:

> This is the same old punitive and controlling approach though a bit better > than spanking.  

It is a *whole lot* better than spanking in my opinion.  Spanking is humiliating and scary for children.  Sending them to their rooms may not be the ideal, but it is way better. It teaches nothing except that the parent has total control > over the child’s life and actions.  The aim is not control of behavior nor > power over our children, but teaching the child to think about his behavior > and to take an ethical stance on all things. > Producing children who don’t follow the herd, who think and choose to > be self-disciplined is considerably more complicated than using a > technique that controls them.

I think you might be painting this as a little too black and white though.  It is possible to give your children a lot of freedom and choices, and encourage their individuality, and explain why certain things must happen, and yet still, at times, use something like 1 2 3 Magic.   Sometimes parents just need to get a certain behavior under control. This doesn’t mean they want to control every aspect of their children’s existence and turn them into little automatons.  It means they tried choices and discussion and explanations, and still the child kicks her sister or whatever.  We use 1 2 3 Magic very sparingly.  We are more the Talking So Kids Will Listen . . . types.  But it does work well for stubborn bad habits.  1 2 3 Magic doesn’t say you shouldn’t explain and discuss and involve the children in deciding what the house rules are. You should do these things.  Just not when they are in the middle of misbehaving.  They can’t hear it then. — "We all love to instruct, though we can teach only what is not worth knowing."  Jane Austen (Pride and Prejudice)

Response:

>Very well said…I agree with you on this one. >I am a mother first.  It is my mandate as a parent to teach my child the proper >ways to behave in society.

But how do you teach this.  It seems to me that we must behave towards our children with the same respect we want them to show us. > I am so curious, what would any of you do when your child refuses to put his >shoes on and you are running late for work?

Did you ask the child nicely – say please as you want him to do when he asks you to do something? I might say to my child – do you want to put your shoes on by yourself or would you like me to help you put them on?  This generally defuses the situation, focuses the child’s attention on the task and gives him the choice and the power over which *way* he will do the requested task.  It doesn’t let him leave the task undone, but it empowers him to do it his own way. > He is kicking you and slapping your face…do you talk, > "honey, I need you to put your shoes on…please…I am >going to be late…yadda yadda yadda////

I never allowed my children to hit me.  You take the child’s hand and say "I won’t allow you to hurt me or to hurt yourself."  You may also want to show the child how to touch you with gentle hands – it’s calming to the child.  It helps teach them the good behavior and changes the focus of both you and the child.  You can hold the child firmly but not hurt him and not allow him to hurt you either. >Or do you?  I told you to put your shoes on.  Do it now.  That is one…etc. and >a time out when needed.

Nope.  You remain calm, give the child a choice of what he can do.  If you are running late, you might say "I’m sorry, but we are late.  That’s my fault because I got up late, but it means that I’m going to have to put your shoes on today or pick you up and put them on in the car.  Which would you like me to do?"  Then abide by the child’s choice in this matter. >Kids don’t inherit control, nor do they inherit self responsibility, these are >things that need to be taught, and yes example and talking are the best ways to >teach them, but when your child is out of control and acting defiantly, you need >to be the one in control. >If my child is hitting someone, they are firmly reminded that "hitting is wrong" >"We do not hit anyone", then they have to pay the price for their action. They >chose to hit, made the wrong choice.

With a toddler or preschooler, you begin to teach this, but you do not have to punish, simply teach them the right way to touch people, give them words to use when they have a conflict and also help them think of ways to solve the problem with the other child.  With an older child, find ways for the child to make amends to the other child.  Make sure that the child who hit sees that the other child was hurt and does something to make up for it.  The child who hit might want to comfort the victim and then might decide to have him come and play for example.  The other part of this is to allow the two children to talk about what happened and to figure out ways to avoid the situation.  Role playing and books help with older kids.  Be constantly on the lookout for situations in which you can ask your child, how could that problem have been solved?  Did hitting help?  What could we do instead? > If you as an adult, make wrong choices, >there are usually prices to pay for it; the law, fines etc. whatever…why >should it be different for kids.  What better way to teach them how society >works.  You make mistakes, sometimes bad choices have consequence.  It is cruel >to teach your kids that there are no consequences to bad choices.  These are the >ones who disrespect the law, or have no respect for authority figures.

There are enough consequences that are natural that children will understand them easily.  If you fall down, you scrape your knee is a consequence of your actions.  If you pull a toy away from Tommy, you may break the toy is a consequence of your actions.  If you throw your radio, you will break it is a consequence of your actions.  If you take turns with Anna, she will want to play with you more often is a consequence of your actions, too. >And yes, I have wonderful and well behaved children who are respectful and >peaceful.  (Actually, both of my children won Student of the Month in two >consecutive months this year at school)  And I am proud, after all society >reflects childrens behaviour as a direct result of parenting.  Not necessarily >the right thing but they do.

I’m glad that your kids are well-behaved, but that is not the be-all and end-all of parenting.  We are aiming for independent evaluation of actions.  Every child must be able to solve the problems he faces for himself. Aside from all other things, positive methods make life in a family with children much more pleasant for the entire family.   Try it.  It works.  It is calming and pleasant.  The key is consistency and modelling respect for everyone in the family. Dorothy

Response:

(Long again, sorry.) I was beginning to feel like a bad parent for disciplining my children. Maybe that is the problem today with many children?????  (I don’t know just guessing.)  Parents are too wrapped up in making sure that everyone thinks they are good parents that they follow the trends in parenting and over talk their kids.  I almost went for it myself.  I was thinking I have this wonderful technique that works, but somehow I am injuring my children. Jeez, I better stop. I thought about that and what the other posters said alot last night.  Yes children should be guided through life as much as possible.  They should be loved and the positive should always be focused on.  I think this technique allows for all of that. Here is an excerpt from another poster in another thread that you all have agreed was good and I will explain how it fits with this. -So few suggestions for parents are posted here because of the -propaganda mongers (the "cohort"). So here are some: -1) Try to redirect the child. Sending to their room for five minutes. -2) Spend quality time. Doesn’t really apply to this technique.  This is something that you would be doing when the child was behaving.  The better behaved the more time the whole family can spend together and really enjoy it. -3) Focus on the positive behaviors (reinforce appropriate behavior) This technique totally takes the focus off of negative behavior.  If the child is misbehaving in a way that has been discussed before, he is simply removed from the situation.  The only time you would really be focusing on them from this point on would be for the positive behavior. -4) Network with other parents for non-violent solutions (avoid this -newsgroup because it rarely offers help or support-just advances its -singular agenda and knocks those who don’t tow their "party line") This technique is so easy to share with others and so easy to apply.  You could have your whole playgroup doing it after one play date. -5) Set up learning/fun activities that keep the child actively -involved. Again this doesn’t really apply to this technique, but something that is lots of fun for the whole family or for that special one-on-one bonding time between individual children. -6) Teach negotiation skills and help them practice these skills (needs -to be age appropriate). I think this technique lends itself perfectly to building these kinds of skills.  It quickly teaches children better ways of expressing themselves inorder to be understood and to negotiated a  means to their ends. -7) Role play #6 (what ifs..) This doesn’t really fit in directly with the technique, but a great way to expand this technique. -8) Take a time-out for yourself. Excellent advice for anytime.  Not needed as often now, after using this technique. -9) Change the child’s environment if it appears to be contributing to -the problem (time away). Easily established with the five minute timeout in room. -10) Practice a relaxation technique that works for you when you feel -your temper getting the best of you (this will model appropriate -behavior for the child too). Great advice.  I still need to do this for arguments with my husband. Yes we need to teach our children.  But I am not about to sit and have a discussion on ethics and morality with my 3 year old.  Not only does he not have the vocabulary,  but he doesn’t have the experiences yet to relate to almost anything I would say to him.  And the experience thing goes for nearly all children under the age of 12. The older a child gets yes the more say they should have in their life and the more you can discuss and explain with them.  But I am not about to argue with a small child for even a few minutes over a cookie, a toy, or whatever. At our play group the other day, a young mother was there with her 2yo. This child happened to push over my 1yo.  The woman grabbed her child, told him what he did wrong, why he did wrong, the baby could get hurt, that he better be sorry, and that he needed to say he was sorry.  By the end of it the child was pulling to get away from her, me and my child.  He didn’t care,because he is to little to understand all of that. He would have understood.  "No, we don’t push.  That’s three. We are taking five."  Then go and sit down for a few minutes away from the rest of the group. This is how our adult society works.  Why can’t we apply it to our children? If you got pulled over by a cop for speeding, do you think he is going to sit there and explain to you why you shouldn’t speed.  No, he is going to give you a ticket.  Will that stop you from speeding in the future?  If you get caught often enough maybe, but probably not.  It will however, stop you from going a certain speed over the limit.  I doubt many of you here ever drive 15+ mph over. Our whole society is based on this.  We even have in our law books the 123 and your out plan.  Why is it such a crime to use it on our children? I want my children to learn early on that there are consequences for their actions.  I will teach them what is wrong and why, but also that wrong has a price.  And going to your room, full of toys and books isn’t that high of a price to pay.  I mean really. Heidi — Would you like a home-based business?  Ask me what is working for me and my family.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ll offer a different opinion on this.  I don’t see this as trying to > overly control a child or stifle his opinions.  Its purpose, according > to the examples, was to let the child know that whining or > disobedience would not work.  Don’t we all want our kids to learn > that?   The parent explained the rule to the child – that cookies were > not going to be served just before dinner, or that toys in the store > were not to be touched.   This doesn’t sound like a case of kids > asking why the parents made such rules.  Certainly I think kids have a > right to know why.   This 1-2-3 method, however, seems to me to be for > use when a child does know the rule but simply doesn’t want to follow > it.   Perhaps the description of how it works did leave out that rules > should be explained to kids beforehand, so they know what to expect > from us. >    If we allow ourselves to get caught up in endless explanations to a > child who is whining to get his way or deliberately refusing to obey a > household rule, we will end up with a child who knows all he has to do > is keep whining, and eventually we may give him what he wants just to > keep him quiet.  We need to teach him that the rule must be followed, > whether it is NO WHINING  after Mom has said no or NO TOUCHING  items > at the store after Mom has said no, or he will be removed from the > situation.   Is that trying to exert control over our children?  Well, > yes.  And that is our job as parents.   Kids need some amount of > control.   They need to learn to follow rules.   That does not mean we > don’t explain why we’ve made a rule or that we don’t listen > respectfully to their opinions.   It does mean we don’t listen or > respond to whining, and we don’t let them deliberately disobey the > rules.    I’ve seen too many parents pleading with their kids to > behave but never really requiring that they do, and talking talking > talking at them, and of course the kids just tune them out and ignore > them. >  And now I am done talking talking talking. >Okay…I’ve got to agree here with both Paula and Dorothy.  This type of >"discipline" just didn’t settle well with me when I read it, primarily >because imo, control is an illusion, especially when it comes to raising >children.  Just my 2 cents. >– >Sarah-mom to Brandon (20 mos) & Camryn (she’s 5 mos) >Come visit us at http://home.maine.rr.com/brancam/home.htm >>x-no-archive: yes >>Dorothy Sacks wrote re the "1-2-3Magic" method of discipline: >>>This is the same old punitive and controlling approach though a bit better >>>than spanking.  It teaches nothing except that the parent has total >control >>>over the child’s life and actions.  The aim is not control of behavior nor >>>power over our children, but teaching the child to think about his >behavior >>>and to take an ethical stance on all things. >>>Producing children who don’t follow the herd, who think and choose to >>>be self-disciplined is considerably more complicated than using a >>>technique that controls them. >>I totally agree with you, Dorothy!  *gasp*  The "1-2-3" technique bothers >>me…it’s so disrespectful of a child’s feelings and the human need to know >>*why* a thing is the way it is…it’s just so "cold" in a way. (However, if >>physical abuse is the alternative, then of course it’s preferable.) I’ve >always >>explained things to my daughters (okay, okay…*over*explained in many >cases!), >>and I’m very pleased with their behavior overall. >>Paula

Response:

Very well said…I agree with you on this one. I am a mother first.  It is my mandate as a parent to teach my child the proper ways to behave in society.  I am so curious, what would any of you do when your child refuses to put his shoes on and you are running late for work?  He is kicking you and slapping your face…do you talk, "honey, I need you to put your shoes on…please…I am going to be late…yadda yadda yadda//// Or do you?  I told you to put your shoes on.  Do it now.  That is one…etc. and a time out when needed. Kids don’t inherit control, nor do they inherit self responsibility, these are things that need to be taught, and yes example and talking are the best ways to teach them, but when your child is out of control and acting defiantly, you need to be the one in control. If my child is hitting someone, they are firmly reminded that "hitting is wrong" "We do not hit anyone", then they have to pay the price for their action.  They chose to hit, made the wrong choice.  If you as an adult, make wrong choices, there are usually prices to pay for it; the law, fines etc. whatever…why should it be different for kids.  What better way to teach them how society works.  You make mistakes, sometimes bad choices have consequence.  It is cruel to teach your kids that there are no consequences to bad choices.  These are the ones who disrespect the law, or have no respect for authority figures. And yes, I have wonderful and well behaved children who are respectful and peaceful.  (Actually, both of my children won Student of the Month in two consecutive months this year at school)  And I am proud, after all society reflects childrens behaviour as a direct result of parenting.  Not necessarily the right thing but they do. — zipper For lots of parenting tips and other useful information regarding childcare, visit my website! http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare/index.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >(Long again, sorry.) >I was beginning to feel like a bad parent for disciplining my children. >Maybe that is the problem today with many children?????  (I don’t know just >guessing.)  Parents are too wrapped up in making sure that everyone thinks >they are good parents that they follow the trends in parenting and over talk >their kids.  I almost went for it myself.  I was thinking I have this >wonderful technique that works, but somehow I am injuring my children. >Jeez, I better stop. >I thought about that and what the other posters said alot last night.  Yes >children should be guided through life as much as possible.  They should be >loved and the positive should always be focused on.  I think this technique >allows for all of that. >Here is an excerpt from another poster in another thread that you all have >agreed was good and I will explain how it fits with this. >-So few suggestions for parents are posted here because of the >-propaganda mongers (the "cohort"). So here are some: >-1) Try to redirect the child. >Sending to their room for five minutes. >-2) Spend quality time. >Doesn’t really apply to this technique.  This is something that you would be >doing when the child was behaving.  The better behaved the more time the >whole family can spend together and really enjoy it. >-3) Focus on the positive behaviors (reinforce appropriate behavior) >This technique totally takes the focus off of negative behavior.  If the >child is misbehaving in a way that has been discussed before, he is simply >removed from the situation.  The only time you would really be focusing on >them from this point on would be for the positive behavior. >-4) Network with other parents for non-violent solutions (avoid this >-newsgroup because it rarely offers help or support-just advances its >-singular agenda and knocks those who don’t tow their "party line") >This technique is so easy to share with others and so easy to apply.  You >could have your whole playgroup doing it after one play date. >-5) Set up learning/fun activities that keep the child actively >-involved. >Again this doesn’t really apply to this technique, but something that is >lots of fun for the whole family or for that special one-on-one bonding time >between individual children. >-6) Teach negotiation skills and help them practice these skills (needs >-to be age appropriate). >I think this technique lends itself perfectly to building these kinds of >skills.  It quickly teaches children better ways of expressing themselves >inorder to be understood and to negotiated a  means to their ends. >-7) Role play #6 (what ifs..) >This doesn’t really fit in directly with the technique, but a great way to >expand this technique. >-8) Take a time-out for yourself. >Excellent advice for anytime.  Not needed as often now, after using this >technique. >-9) Change the child’s environment if it appears to be contributing to >-the problem (time away). >Easily established with the five minute timeout in room. >-10) Practice a relaxation technique that works for you when you feel >-your temper getting the best of you (this will model appropriate >-behavior for the child too). >Great advice.  I still need to do this for arguments with my husband. >Yes we need to teach our children.  But I am not about to sit and have a >discussion on ethics and morality with my 3 year old.  Not only does he not >have the vocabulary,  but he doesn’t have the experiences yet to relate to >almost anything I would say to him.  And the experience thing goes for >nearly all children under the age of 12. >The older a child gets yes the more say they should have in their life and >the more you can discuss and explain with them.  But I am not about to argue >with a small child for even a few minutes over a cookie, a toy, or whatever. >At our play group the other day, a young mother was there with her 2yo. >This child happened to push over my 1yo.  The woman grabbed her child, told >him what he did wrong, why he did wrong, the baby could get hurt, that he >better be sorry, and that he needed to say he was sorry.  By the end of it >the child was pulling to get away from her, me and my child.  He didn’t >care,because he is to little to understand all of that. >He would have understood.  "No, we don’t push.  That’s three. We are taking >five."  Then go and sit down for a few minutes away from the rest of the >group. >This is how our adult society works.  Why can’t we apply it to our children? >If you got pulled over by a cop for speeding, do you think he is going to >sit there and explain to you why you shouldn’t speed.  No, he is going to >give you a ticket.  Will that stop you from speeding in the future?  If you >get caught often enough maybe, but probably not.  It will however, stop you >from going a certain speed over the limit.  I doubt many of you here ever >drive 15+ mph over. >Our whole society is based on this.  We even have in our law books the 123 >and your out plan.  Why is it such a crime to use it on our children? >I want my children to learn early on that there are consequences for their >actions.  I will teach them what is wrong and why, but also that wrong has a >price.  And going to your room, full of toys and books isn’t that high of a >price to pay.  I mean really. >Heidi >– >Would you like a home-based business?  Ask me what is working for me and my >family. > I’ll offer a different opinion on this.  I don’t see this as trying to > overly control a child or stifle his opinions.  Its purpose, according > to the examples, was to let the child know that whining or > disobedience would not work.  Don’t we all want our kids to learn > that?   The parent explained the rule to the child – that cookies were > not going to be served just before dinner, or that toys in the store > were not to be touched.   This doesn’t sound like a case of kids > asking why the parents made such rules.  Certainly I think kids have a > right to know why.   This 1-2-3 method, however, seems to me to be for > use when a child does know the rule but simply doesn’t want to follow > it.   Perhaps the description of how it works did leave out that rules > should be explained to kids beforehand, so they know what to expect > from us. >    If we allow ourselves to get caught up in endless explanations to a > child who is whining to get his way or deliberately refusing to obey a > household rule, we will end up with a child who knows all he has to do > is keep whining, and eventually we may give him what he wants just to > keep him quiet.  We need to teach him that the rule must be followed, > whether it is NO WHINING  after Mom has said no or NO TOUCHING  items > at the store after Mom has said no, or he will be removed from the > situation.   Is that trying to exert control over our children?  Well, > yes.  And that is our job as parents.   Kids need some amount of > control.   They need to learn to follow rules.   That does not mean we > don’t explain why we’ve made a rule or that we don’t listen > respectfully to their opinions.   It does mean we don’t listen or > respond to whining, and we don’t let them deliberately disobey the > rules.    I’ve seen too many parents pleading with their kids to > behave but never really requiring that they do, and talking talking > talking at them, and of course the kids just tune them out and ignore > them. >  And now I am done talking talking talking. > >Okay…I’ve got to agree here with both Paula and Dorothy.  This type of > >"discipline" just didn’t settle well with me when I read it, primarily > >because imo, control is an illusion, especially when it comes to raising > >children.  Just my 2 cents.

… read more »

Response:

We tried this method when our girls were young.  It can be effective. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > There have been alot of posts lately about our little ones wrecking havoc in > our homes.  I posted this a while back at the end of a thread, so many of > you may have missed it. > I found a fascinating video at the library the other day called 123Magic by > Dr. Thomas D. Phelan Ph.D.  I started using his technique right after a saw > the video.  I have been using it now for over a week and the results are > nothing short of a miracle.  I have not yelled or raised my voice at my > children in a week and a half.  It has been GREAT!!!! > This technique is geared towards children ages 2-12.  Dr. Phelan stated that > the more difficult the child the better this technique seems to work.  He > even stated that it is perfect for children with AD(H)D, ODD, LD or many > other behavioral type problems or diseases. > It is a version of the "I am going to count to three."  It is a bit more > complicated than that AND actually works.  I know you are sitting there > saying "I have tried counting.  I have tried timeout.  I have tried taking > away privileges, etc.  And nothing works." > His theory is that we all try and treat our children like little adults. > When they do something wrong, we first try and TALK to them.  Then we REASON > with them.  Next, we try to PUNISH them. Then we YELL.  And then some of us > even HIT.    So as it goes we  Talk, Reason, Punish, Yell, Hit.  Think about > your own situations and see if this isn’t exactly what is going on in your > home. > The problem with this approach is not only doesn’t it work, but the children > have all the control.  Not only have they probably gotten their way (if not > good for you), but they have defiantly gotten you to go through a whole > series of an unpleasant episode.  For a small person, this is quite alot of > power to get an adult all upset.  It makes them feel not only more > important, but bigger. > The idea behind 123Magic is to take away all of that power.  If your kids > are doing something wrong, say nagging you for a cookie before dinner. > This is sort of how the scenario would go. > "Mommy I want a cookie.  I’m huuuuuungry." > "No, it’s almost time for dinner." > "Pleeeeeeaaaaase" > "That’s one." (No emotion.  No explanation. No other words, except ‘That’s > one.’) > "Come on.  I’m starved.  Give me something." > "That’s two." > "All I want is a stinking cookie for crying out loud." > "That’s three.  Take five." (Now the child would get a five minute time out > in their room. You explain nothing.  You don’t talk about what the child > did.  You just march him off to his room.) > If this is done consistently, for everything, from everyone in your home and > for all the rules.  It works just like Magic.  I couldn’t believe it with my > own child.  It is great!  There is a little more to it than this, so the > video or book would be the way to go.  Like how does this apply to homework, > at the grocery, if the kids are fighting, what if they won’t go to their > room, etc.  The video explains it all. > What I like best about it is that it is real easy to explain to > grandparents, neighbors, babysitters.  And it puts everyone on the same wave > length of how to monitor your children. > If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.  You can e-mail me at > — > Would you like a home-based business?  Ask me what is working for me and my > family.

Response:

I also forgot on the other post.  This information didn’t *cost* me anything.  I got the video and the book from the public library. Heidi — Would you like a home-based business?  Ask me what is working for me and my family.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m sure that this has been gone through before, but  this method just > uses threats to contol a child. It will not teach a child why she > should not whine for cookie, just that she shouldn’t whine while > mommys around. > There is no magic bullet, teaching children is long hard work! > For a more sensible (IMHO) approach, check out > "Helping Your Child Learn Responsible Behavior with activities" > http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content/behavior.html > U.S. Department of Education > and > "How to Teach Your Children Discipline" > http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content/discipline.3.19.html > Marilyn E. Gootman,  University of Georgia > Both free! > Paul > — >There have been alot of posts lately about our little ones wrecking havoc in >our homes.  I posted this a while back at the end of a thread, so many of >you may have missed it. >I found a fascinating video at the library the other day called 123Magic by >Dr. Thomas D. Phelan Ph.D.  I started using his technique right after a saw >the video.  I have been using it now for over a week and the results are >nothing short of a miracle.  I have not yelled or raised my voice at my >children in a week and a half.  It has been GREAT!!!! >This technique is geared towards children ages 2-12.  Dr. Phelan stated that >the more difficult the child the better this technique seems to work.  He >even stated that it is perfect for children with AD(H)D, ODD, LD or many >other behavioral type problems or diseases. >It is a version of the "I am going to count to three."  It is a bit more >complicated than that AND actually works.  I know you are sitting there >saying "I have tried counting.  I have tried timeout.  I have tried taking >away privileges, etc.  And nothing works." >His theory is that we all try and treat our children like little adults. >When they do something wrong, we first try and TALK to them.  Then we REASON >with them.  Next, we try to PUNISH them. Then we YELL.  And then some of us >even HIT.    So as it goes we  Talk, Reason, Punish, Yell, Hit.  Think about >your own situations and see if this isn’t exactly what is going on in your >home. >The problem with this approach is not only doesn’t it work, but the children >have all the control.  Not only have they probably gotten their way (if not >good for you), but they have defiantly gotten you to go through a whole >series of an unpleasant episode.  For a small person, this is quite alot of >power to get an adult all upset.  It makes them feel not only more >important, but bigger. >The idea behind 123Magic is to take away all of that power.  If your kids >are doing something wrong, say nagging you for a cookie before dinner. >This is sort of how the scenario would go. >"Mommy I want a cookie.  I’m huuuuuungry." >"No, it’s almost time for dinner." >"Pleeeeeeaaaaase" >"That’s one." (No emotion.  No explanation. No other words, except ‘That’s >one.’) >"Come on.  I’m starved.  Give me something." >"That’s two." >"All I want is a stinking cookie for crying out loud." >"That’s three.  Take five." (Now the child would get a five minute time out >in their room. You explain nothing.  You don’t talk about what the child >did.  You just march him off to his room.) >If this is done consistently, for everything, from everyone in your home and >for all the rules.  It works just like Magic.  I couldn’t believe it with my >own child.  It is great!  There is a little more to it than this, so the >video or book would be the way to go.  Like how does this apply to homework, >at the grocery, if the kids are fighting, what if they won’t go to their >room, etc.  The video explains it all. >What I like best about it is that it is real easy to explain to >grandparents, neighbors, babysitters.  And it puts everyone on the same wave >length of how to monitor your children. >If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.  You can e-mail me at

Response:

Okay…I’ve got to agree here with both Paula and Dorothy.  This type of "discipline" just didn’t settle well with me when I read it, primarily because imo, control is an illusion, especially when it comes to raising children.  Just my 2 cents. — Sarah-mom to Brandon (20 mos) & Camryn (she’s 5 mos) Come visit us at http://home.maine.rr.com/brancam/home.htm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->x-no-archive: yes >Dorothy Sacks wrote re the "1-2-3Magic" method of discipline: >This is the same old punitive and controlling approach though a bit better >than spanking.  It teaches nothing except that the parent has total control >over the child’s life and actions.  The aim is not control of behavior nor >power over our children, but teaching the child to think about his behavior >and to take an ethical stance on all things. >Producing children who don’t follow the herd, who think and choose to >be self-disciplined is considerably more complicated than using a >technique that controls them. >I totally agree with you, Dorothy!  *gasp*  The "1-2-3" technique bothers >me…it’s so disrespectful of a child’s feelings and the human need to know >*why* a thing is the way it is…it’s just so "cold" in a way. (However, if >physical abuse is the alternative, then of course it’s preferable.) I’ve always >explained things to my daughters (okay, okay…*over*explained in many cases!), >and I’m very pleased with their behavior overall. >Paula

Response:

I’ll offer a different opinion on this.  I don’t see this as trying to overly control a child or stifle his opinions.  Its purpose, according to the examples, was to let the child know that whining or disobedience would not work.  Don’t we all want our kids to learn that?   The parent explained the rule to the child – that cookies were not going to be served just before dinner, or that toys in the store were not to be touched.   This doesn’t sound like a case of kids asking why the parents made such rules.  Certainly I think kids have a right to know why.   This 1-2-3 method, however, seems to me to be for use when a child does know the rule but simply doesn’t want to follow it.   Perhaps the description of how it works did leave out that rules should be explained to kids beforehand, so they know what to expect from us.      If we allow ourselves to get caught up in endless explanations to a child who is whining to get his way or deliberately refusing to obey a household rule, we will end up with a child who knows all he has to do is keep whining, and eventually we may give him what he wants just to keep him quiet.  We need to teach him that the rule must be followed, whether it is NO WHINING  after Mom has said no or NO TOUCHING  items at the store after Mom has said no, or he will be removed from the situation.   Is that trying to exert control over our children?  Well, yes.  And that is our job as parents.   Kids need some amount of control.   They need to learn to follow rules.   That does not mean we don’t explain why we’ve made a rule or that we don’t listen respectfully to their opinions.   It does mean we don’t listen or respond to whining, and we don’t let them deliberately disobey the rules.    I’ve seen too many parents pleading with their kids to behave but never really requiring that they do, and talking talking talking at them, and of course the kids just tune them out and ignore them.    And now I am done talking talking talking.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Okay…I’ve got to agree here with both Paula and Dorothy.  This type of >"discipline" just didn’t settle well with me when I read it, primarily >because imo, control is an illusion, especially when it comes to raising >children.  Just my 2 cents. >– >Sarah-mom to Brandon (20 mos) & Camryn (she’s 5 mos) >Come visit us at http://home.maine.rr.com/brancam/home.htm >x-no-archive: yes >Dorothy Sacks wrote re the "1-2-3Magic" method of discipline: >>This is the same old punitive and controlling approach though a bit better >>than spanking.  It teaches nothing except that the parent has total >control >>over the child’s life and actions.  The aim is not control of behavior nor >>power over our children, but teaching the child to think about his >behavior >>and to take an ethical stance on all things. >>Producing children who don’t follow the herd, who think and choose to >>be self-disciplined is considerably more complicated than using a >>technique that controls them. >I totally agree with you, Dorothy!  *gasp*  The "1-2-3" technique bothers >me…it’s so disrespectful of a child’s feelings and the human need to know >*why* a thing is the way it is…it’s just so "cold" in a way. (However, if >physical abuse is the alternative, then of course it’s preferable.) I’ve >always >explained things to my daughters (okay, okay…*over*explained in many >cases!), >and I’m very pleased with their behavior overall. >Paula

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Maybe you are right on something’s, threats of bodily harm or other severe >wrongs where this approach would not work.  The video and tape readily >admitted to this. >However, what else is there to learn in this situation or in the many >everyday situations similar to this.  The mother already said why the child >wasn’t getting the cookie.  The only reason any conversation continues at >this point is that the child is trying to take control of the situation. >The child is not whining any longer because she wants the cookie.  The child >is whining to regain control. >There is no threat here from her mother, only a refusal of giving control to >the child.  If the child continues, she is sent to her room away from the >situation.  Only for five minutes.  Her toys are still in her room, she >doesn’t have to sit in the corner, she is not really being punished, just >removed. >I am not criticizing the other disciplining techniques that are out there. >However, there is so much room for variation on any of these techniques and >usually grandma and grandpa or the neighbors or whoever doesn’t think they >work and they don’t follow your lead.  Also your spouse may not agree and >you still have strife within the household.   The child is still getting >mixed messages unless you are with them 24/7.  Most of us aren’t, unless our >children are very small. >This 123Magic is easy to do and easy to explain.  Anyone can use it on an >child or personality type.  Once you get the technique down and have >regained control in your household, it is very easy to instill any other >method or ideal you believe in or that fits your family’s personality. >It has worked amazingly for us.  We even took him to Toys-R-Us and let him >walk around the store (not in a cart.)  We told him twice through out the >store that this wasn’t our house and not to touch anything.  He touched one >time after each reminder and all we had to say was "That’s one."  No other >problems, at all, in the store. >One lady was so amazed, she just couldn’t believe it. >My kids have gotten so much more relaxed, because they know EXACTLY what to >expect.  There is no longer any guess work on their part or mine.  They know >mommy’s buttons CAN’T be pushed.  The whining has decreased to almost no >existence.  I have really, really begun to enjoy this motherhood thing.  It >is loads of fun.  Maybe this is just the honeymoon with this new discovery. >But I love it and will promote it as often and to as many people who will >listen. >I think you are wrong about the magic bullet.  If there ever was one, this >is probably as close as anyone will ever get. >Heidi

This is the same old punitive and controlling approach though a bit better than spanking.  It teaches nothing except that the parent has total control over the child’s life and actions.  The aim is not control of behavior nor power over our children, but teaching the child to think about his behavior and to take an ethical stance on all things. Producing children who don’t follow the herd, who think and choose to be self-disciplined is considerably more complicated than using a technique that controls them. Dorothy I liked Paul’s websites and will add one of my own here. > "Helping Your Child Learn Responsible Behavior with activities" > http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content/behavior.html > U.S. Department of Education > and > "How to Teach Your Children Discipline" > http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content/discipline.3.19.html > Marilyn E. Gootman,  University of Georgia > Both free!

For teachers mainly, but parents might still get something out of it. Discipline withoutStress Rewards or Punishments How to Raise Responsibility & Create A Learning Community by Marvin Marshall You can print this out free. and the Taking Children Seriously Website http://www.eeng.dcu.ie/~tcs/index.html Dorothy

Response:

Maybe you are right on something’s, threats of bodily harm or other severe wrongs where this approach would not work.  The video and tape readily admitted to this. However, what else is there to learn in this situation or in the many everyday situations similar to this.  The mother already said why the child wasn’t getting the cookie.  The only reason any conversation continues at this point is that the child is trying to take control of the situation. The child is not whining any longer because she wants the cookie.  The child is whining to regain control. There is no threat here from her mother, only a refusal of giving control to the child.  If the child continues, she is sent to her room away from the situation.  Only for five minutes.  Her toys are still in her room, she doesn’t have to sit in the corner, she is not really being punished, just removed. I am not criticizing the other disciplining techniques that are out there. However, there is so much room for variation on any of these techniques and usually grandma and grandpa or the neighbors or whoever doesn’t think they work and they don’t follow your lead.  Also your spouse may not agree and you still have strife within the household.   The child is still getting mixed messages unless you are with them 24/7.  Most of us aren’t, unless our children are very small. This 123Magic is easy to do and easy to explain.  Anyone can use it on an child or personality type.  Once you get the technique down and have regained control in your household, it is very easy to instill any other method or ideal you believe in or that fits your family’s personality. It has worked amazingly for us.  We even took him to Toys-R-Us and let him walk around the store (not in a cart.)  We told him twice through out the store that this wasn’t our house and not to touch anything.  He touched one time after each reminder and all we had to say was "That’s one."  No other problems, at all, in the store. One lady was so amazed, she just couldn’t believe it. My kids have gotten so much more relaxed, because they know EXACTLY what to expect.  There is no longer any guess work on their part or mine.  They know mommy’s buttons CAN’T be pushed.  The whining has decreased to almost no existence.  I have really, really begun to enjoy this motherhood thing.  It is loads of fun.  Maybe this is just the honeymoon with this new discovery. But I love it and will promote it as often and to as many people who will listen. I think you are wrong about the magic bullet.  If there ever was one, this is probably as close as anyone will ever get. Heidi — Would you like a home-based business?  Ask me what is working for me and my family.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m sure that this has been gone through before, but  this method just > uses threats to contol a child. It will not teach a child why she > should not whine for cookie, just that she shouldn’t whine while > mommys around. > There is no magic bullet, teaching children is long hard work! > For a more sensible (IMHO) approach, check out > "Helping Your Child Learn Responsible Behavior with activities" > http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content/behavior.html > U.S. Department of Education > and > "How to Teach Your Children Discipline" > http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content/discipline.3.19.html > Marilyn E. Gootman,  University of Georgia > Both free! > Paul > — >There have been alot of posts lately about our little ones wrecking havoc in >our homes.  I posted this a while back at the end of a thread, so many of >you may have missed it. >I found a fascinating video at the library the other day called 123Magic by >Dr. Thomas D. Phelan Ph.D.  I started using his technique right after a saw >the video.  I have been using it now for over a week and the results are >nothing short of a miracle.  I have not yelled or raised my voice at my >children in a week and a half.  It has been GREAT!!!! >This technique is geared towards children ages 2-12.  Dr. Phelan stated that >the more difficult the child the better this technique seems to work.  He >even stated that it is perfect for children with AD(H)D, ODD, LD or many >other behavioral type problems or diseases. >It is a version of the "I am going to count to three."  It is a bit more >complicated than that AND actually works.  I know you are sitting there >saying "I have tried counting.  I have tried timeout.  I have tried taking >away privileges, etc.  And nothing works." >His theory is that we all try and treat our children like little adults. >When they do something wrong, we first try and TALK to them.  Then we REASON >with them.  Next, we try to PUNISH them. Then we YELL.  And then some of us >even HIT.    So as it goes we  Talk, Reason, Punish, Yell, Hit.  Think about >your own situations and see if this isn’t exactly what is going on in your >home. >The problem with this approach is not only doesn’t it work, but the children >have all the control.  Not only have they probably gotten their way (if not >good for you), but they have defiantly gotten you to go through a whole >series of an unpleasant episode.  For a small person, this is quite alot of >power to get an adult all upset.  It makes them feel not only more >important, but bigger. >The idea behind 123Magic is to take away all of that power.  If your kids >are doing something wrong, say nagging you for a cookie before dinner. >This is sort of how the scenario would go. >"Mommy I want a cookie.  I’m huuuuuungry." >"No, it’s almost time for dinner." >"Pleeeeeeaaaaase" >"That’s one." (No emotion.  No explanation. No other words, except ‘That’s >one.’) >"Come on.  I’m starved.  Give me something." >"That’s two." >"All I want is a stinking cookie for crying out loud." >"That’s three.  Take five." (Now the child would get a five minute time out >in their room. You explain nothing.  You don’t talk about what the child >did.  You just march him off to his room.) >If this is done consistently, for everything, from everyone in your home and >for all the rules.  It works just like Magic.  I couldn’t believe it with my >own child.  It is great!  There is a little more to it than this, so the >video or book would be the way to go.  Like how does this apply to homework, >at the grocery, if the kids are fighting, what if they won’t go to their >room, etc.  The video explains it all. >What I like best about it is that it is real easy to explain to >grandparents, neighbors, babysitters.  And it puts everyone on the same wave >length of how to monitor your children. >If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.  You can e-mail me at

Response:

I’m sure that this has been gone through before, but  this method just uses threats to contol a child. It will not teach a child why she should not whine for cookie, just that she shouldn’t whine while mommys around. There is no magic bullet, teaching children is long hard work! For a more sensible (IMHO) approach, check out "Helping Your Child Learn Responsible Behavior with activities" http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content/behavior.html U.S. Department of Education and "How to Teach Your Children Discipline" http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content/discipline.3.19.html Marilyn E. Gootman,  University of Georgia Both free! Paul — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->There have been alot of posts lately about our little ones wrecking havoc in >our homes.  I posted this a while back at the end of a thread, so many of >you may have missed it. >I found a fascinating video at the library the other day called 123Magic by >Dr. Thomas D. Phelan Ph.D.  I started using his technique right after a saw >the video.  I have been using it now for over a week and the results are >nothing short of a miracle.  I have not yelled or raised my voice at my >children in a week and a half.  It has been GREAT!!!! >This technique is geared towards children ages 2-12.  Dr. Phelan stated that >the more difficult the child the better this technique seems to work.  He >even stated that it is perfect for children with AD(H)D, ODD, LD or many >other behavioral type problems or diseases. >It is a version of the "I am going to count to three."  It is a bit more >complicated than that AND actually works.  I know you are sitting there >saying "I have tried counting.  I have tried timeout.  I have tried taking >away privileges, etc.  And nothing works." >His theory is that we all try and treat our children like little adults. >When they do something wrong, we first try and TALK to them.  Then we REASON >with them.  Next, we try to PUNISH them. Then we YELL.  And then some of us >even HIT.    So as it goes we  Talk, Reason, Punish, Yell, Hit.  Think about >your own situations and see if this isn’t exactly what is going on in your >home. >The problem with this approach is not only doesn’t it work, but the children >have all the control.  Not only have they probably gotten their way (if not >good for you), but they have defiantly gotten you to go through a whole >series of an unpleasant episode.  For a small person, this is quite alot of >power to get an adult all upset.  It makes them feel not only more >important, but bigger. >The idea behind 123Magic is to take away all of that power.  If your kids >are doing something wrong, say nagging you for a cookie before dinner. >This is sort of how the scenario would go. >"Mommy I want a cookie.  I’m huuuuuungry." >"No, it’s almost time for dinner." >"Pleeeeeeaaaaase" >"That’s one." (No emotion.  No explanation. No other words, except ‘That’s >one.’) >"Come on.  I’m starved.  Give me something." >"That’s two." >"All I want is a stinking cookie for crying out loud." >"That’s three.  Take five." (Now the child would get a five minute time out >in their room. You explain nothing.  You don’t talk about what the child >did.  You just march him off to his room.) >If this is done consistently, for everything, from everyone in your home and >for all the rules.  It works just like Magic.  I couldn’t believe it with my >own child.  It is great!  There is a little more to it than this, so the >video or book would be the way to go.  Like how does this apply to homework, >at the grocery, if the kids are fighting, what if they won’t go to their >room, etc.  The video explains it all. >What I like best about it is that it is real easy to explain to >grandparents, neighbors, babysitters.  And it puts everyone on the same wave >length of how to monitor your children. >If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.  You can e-mail me at

Response:

There have been alot of posts lately about our little ones wrecking havoc in our homes.  I posted this a while back at the end of a thread, so many of you may have missed it. I found a fascinating video at the library the other day called 123Magic by Dr. Thomas D. Phelan Ph.D.  I started using his technique right after a saw the video.  I have been using it now for over a week and the results are nothing short of a miracle.  I have not yelled or raised my voice at my children in a week and a half.  It has been GREAT!!!! This technique is geared towards children ages 2-12.  Dr. Phelan stated that the more difficult the child the better this technique seems to work.  He even stated that it is perfect for children with AD(H)D, ODD, LD or many other behavioral type problems or diseases. It is a version of the "I am going to count to three."  It is a bit more complicated than that AND actually works.  I know you are sitting there saying "I have tried counting.  I have tried timeout.  I have tried taking away privileges, etc.  And nothing works." His theory is that we all try and treat our children like little adults. When they do something wrong, we first try and TALK to them.  Then we REASON with them.  Next, we try to PUNISH them. Then we YELL.  And then some of us even HIT.    So as it goes we  Talk, Reason, Punish, Yell, Hit.  Think about your own situations and see if this isn’t exactly what is going on in your home. The problem with this approach is not only doesn’t it work, but the children have all the control.  Not only have they probably gotten their way (if not good for you), but they have defiantly gotten you to go through a whole series of an unpleasant episode.  For a small person, this is quite alot of power to get an adult all upset.  It makes them feel not only more important, but bigger. The idea behind 123Magic is to take away all of that power.  If your kids are doing something wrong, say nagging you for a cookie before dinner. This is sort of how the scenario would go. "Mommy I want a cookie.  I’m huuuuuungry." "No, it’s almost time for dinner." "Pleeeeeeaaaaase" "That’s one." (No emotion.  No explanation. No other words, except ‘That’s one.’) "Come on.  I’m starved.  Give me something." "That’s two." "All I want is a stinking cookie for crying out loud." "That’s three.  Take five." (Now the child would get a five minute time out in their room. You explain nothing.  You don’t talk about what the child did.  You just march him off to his room.) If this is done consistently, for everything, from everyone in your home and for all the rules.  It works just like Magic.  I couldn’t believe it with my own child.  It is great!  There is a little more to it than this, so the video or book would be the way to go.  Like how does this apply to homework, at the grocery, if the kids are fighting, what if they won’t go to their room, etc.  The video explains it all. What I like best about it is that it is real easy to explain to grandparents, neighbors, babysitters.  And it puts everyone on the same wave length of how to monitor your children. If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.  You can e-mail me at — Would you like a home-based business?  Ask me what is working for me and my family.

Response:

> It sounds to me like she needs more supervision. > Maybe more planned activities? > I hate the idea of the youngest one getting beat up on- are they left > alone together often? > I sympathize- my oldest is a handful and is also always wanting to get > into things in the kitchen. Letting her do crafts and help me cook > seems to help some.

LOL!  The last time I had her doing crafts (and I really thought that this was funny at the time) she tried to use the glue to glue herself to the floor…  One of these days the kids are going to figure out how to glue themselves together.  I  just hope that they don’t use SuperGlue! > As much as you need your sleep- it seems dangerous for them to be awake > and alone in the mornings. Can you get some help in the house? > Have a relative to come and stay for a while- or pay a college student > to help you out?

I wish.  We moved a year ago and we have no family here.  When we moved I also lost our teenage helper.  Find someone to help with the kids…The irony of this is we can’t even find anyone to watch the kids when I go into labor and the baby is due any day now.  Looks like my husband is going to have to drop me off at the hospital and come home with the kids…  Like I told someone that emailed me, there are no teenagers in our neighborhoond. Everyone is either retired or has elm age kids or younger. > Is she in preschool or kindergarden?

Homeschooling. > Maybe that would channel her energy better. > There is a book- "parenting the strong willed child"

Have it. I also have a psychological resentment problem with this book (at least I admit it).  I would really like to tell the person who originally recomended it to me to shove…never mind.  Right after our second child was born I went through a bout of what I was told was PPD.  I think that there might have been more to it than that just because of the situation surrounding the depression.  Anyway, the psych. that I went to tried to tell my husband and myself that our oldest child (who was 16 mo. at the time) was an ADD child, was the root of all the problems in our house, all the problems in our marriage (this woman imagined problems that my husband and I have never had…in fact, there has never been anything more than really minor things that cause tiffs around here – and when you sit back and look at them, they are really stupid things and not worth getting worked up over anyway), the cause of my depression since I couldn’t handle her and all this other crap.  She told me I "needed" this book in order to raise our oldest child.  How in the hell can anyone say that a 16 mo. old has ADD to begin with?  The child is 6 now and shows no signs of anything except maybe being arguementive and opinonated.  Then again, what 6 year old isn’t?  I would be more worried if she were complacent. > by Rex Forehand and Nicholas Long.  It has helped me some with my 4y.o. > You can get it on Amazon.com > Good luck.  I think parenting is the hardest job in the world!

I seen a cross-stitch kit that I wanted to get that was a picture of a bear family and the little bears were doing all kids of irratating kid things. It said on there "Parenting….it’s not just a job, it’s an adventure".  No kidding.  I am just thankful that I only have one child like this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> J > Before you buy.

Response:

We have a friend that has triplets (they are 16 or 17 now).  I will have to ask about this. It is cute. Georga – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > A triplet mom friend of mine has a wooden plaque of a hen in her kitchen. > On it, it says: > RAISING KIDS IS LIKE BEING SLOWLY PECKED TO DEATH BY A CHICKEN. > Hope that raises a small smile. > Hang in there — my guess is *you* are exhausted and once the baby is born > things will (very slowly) improve. > Hugs. > –Janet > Elliot, Hanna, Connor  (10/21/96) > I seen a cross-stitch kit that I wanted to get that was a picture of a > bear > family and the little bears were doing all kids of irratating kid things. > It said on there "Parenting….it’s not just a job, it’s an adventure". > No > kidding.  I am just thankful that I only have one child like this. > > J > > Before you buy.

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LOL! Yea, I know.  I am convinced on given days that my children walk that fine line between genius and insane :0). At least we now have the mess confinded to one area of the house istead of the entire place!  Much safer for everyone involved. The thing that I am having a problem with at the moment (this is todays crisis) is that one of the older children (Still can’t find out which of the two did this, everyone is blaming everyone else) through a milk crate (that is used for Waffle Block storage) at the four year old and hit her in the face.  She has 4 bruises and one cut on her from it.  She looks like she is the victim of abuse.  It is crap like this that bothers me more than the mess in the room.  The mess in the bedroom only bothers me in the fact that only one child cleans up when everyone is involved in making it (fairness thing with me on that one). Georga – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> However, I just > can’t seem to get them to clean up their room now… > Georga > Georga, you’ve been in this ng for long enough to know > that not cleaning up their room is the a.p.s. standard > for being gifted! > — >

Hi EveryOne… I’m a single parent who has a very wonderfully imaginative young boy. Our problem is that he saw the Horror movie "The Mummy" at his Mom’s 6 months or so ago and has persistently expressed fears related to it ever since. He doesn’t mention Nightmare’s per se but is constantly afraid to travel about the house un-attended: especially his bedroom. I’ve tried: 1. Rationally discussing the ‘pretend’ nature of the movie in the past. 2. Escorting him while adding greater and greater distances between us, but he will revert back to square one, over and over. 3. Discussed w/him ideas he might have to combat these fears as far as lights and re-arranging things but so far no luck. He uses our dog as an escort whenever he can convince him to follow him around. Unfortunately, this has digressed to the point where he has reverted back to sleeping in my room again. This occurs distinctly at Non-bedtimes and I gave up insisting that he sleep in his own room over three months ago to see if these fears could gently recede but they have not. I recently let him know that we are going to re-do his room to make it as ‘Friendly’ as possible so he can begin sleeping in there again. We have always done an elaborate bedtime ritual including storytime/prayers. He loves Harry Potter books and actually reads them himself now. The main character / story line often surrounds defeating/coping with magical creatures in what seems like a healthy way. I wanted any ideas on how to help him work through these fears. Should I watch the movie w/him and try to sterilize the parts that have surely grown greatly in his imagination ??? Other movies like Men In Black haven’t bothered him. Thanx.

Response:

Your ideas are all good, but here’s another one – Would he freak out if you bought a book on Ancient Egypt, talked about mummies, and then took him to a museum to see a real mummy?  Perhaps you could visit the museum the day before, explain the situation to a guard, and ask him to show your son how the mummy’s case is very strong, and the museum is heavily guarded, with state-of-the art security.  Maybe he would be so fascinated with learning about Ancient Egypt, that the horror movie would gradually fade from his mind. PS – I was also terrified of The Mummy – but the older version – and I remember begging my Dad to walk me to my bedroom for several nights. My Dad is dead now, but I will always appreciate how he always took my fears seriously. Margaret – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi EveryOne… >I’m a single parent who has a very wonderfully imaginative young boy. Our >problem is that he saw the Horror movie "The Mummy" at his Mom’s 6 months or >so ago and has persistently expressed fears related to it ever since. He >doesn’t mention Nightmare’s per se but is constantly afraid to travel about >the house un-attended: especially his bedroom. >I’ve tried: >1. Rationally discussing the ‘pretend’ nature of the movie in the past. >2. Escorting him while adding greater and greater distances between us, but >he will revert back to square one, over and over. >3. Discussed w/him ideas he might have to combat these fears as far as >lights and re-arranging things but so far no luck. >He uses our dog as an escort whenever he can convince him to follow him >around. Unfortunately, this has digressed to the point where he has reverted >back to sleeping in my room again. This occurs distinctly at Non-bedtimes >and I gave up insisting that he sleep in his own room over three months ago >to see if these fears could gently recede but they have not. I recently let >him know that we are going to re-do his room to make it as ‘Friendly’ as >possible so he can begin sleeping in there again. >We have always done an elaborate bedtime ritual including storytime/prayers. >He loves Harry Potter books and actually reads them himself now. The main >character / story line often surrounds defeating/coping with magical >creatures in what seems like a healthy way. >I wanted any ideas on how to help him work through these fears. >Should I watch the movie w/him and try to sterilize the parts that have >surely grown greatly in his imagination ??? >Other movies like Men In Black haven’t bothered him. >Thanx.

Response:

I need to start this off by saying I hope you and your ex would take this as a learning experience and not let him watch R-rated movies in the near future. He is 7 for heavens sake! R-rated movies are intended for a more mature viewer. That said, I do not think that watching it with him again would be a good idea. I had a aunt who made me sit through a horror flick (age 5) twice to "help me loose my fear." It only magnified it! I would ask him what he thinks would make him feel safer. Maybe a spray bottle with "mummy be gone" on the lable? Or a good luck charm or madialon? My parents let me leave a small bedroom light on at bed time until I got over my fears. It took about 8 months, and even after I could turn off the light I had to have the door open and hall light on for years. It’s his imagination that is getting to him. The Sixth Sense got to me recently. Took me a few days to get over it (it didn’t help that I recently learned a girl, age 3, died in my daughter’s bedroom. Don’t know if I would have purchase this home had I known earlier.) Imagination is a difficult thing to battle, and will take imagination on your part. Logic will not win this battle. Liz

Response:

>Hi EveryOne… >I’m a single parent who has a very wonderfully imaginative young boy. Our >problem is that he saw the Horror movie "The Mummy" at his Mom’s 6 months or >so ago…..

Just my opinion, but a 7 year old shouldn’t have been watching "the Mummy" in the first place.

Response:

I saw that movie last weekend and it scared the pants off me.  My pet peeve and I really really hate this…is PARENTS WHO LET THEIR KIDS WATCH HORROR MOVIES, OR ANY OTHER MOVIE THAT IS FOR ADULTS!  Have I made myself clear? The damage is already done.  I suppose there is nothing but time that will heal this poor child’s memory of the movie.  Do things that will draw his attention away from it.  Take him to a very family friendly movie and maybe he will remember that one more than the last. I would also be cautious of the Harry Potter books.  I haven’t read them myself, nor have my children, but I hear they can be quite cultish in nature.  Is it possible the combination of the two, is what has sparked his fear?  Just a thought.  I would keep my eye on that.  (Please, posters…I am not saying Harry Potter books are bad, I am simply suggesting a comment I heard…as I already mentioned I have not much more info. about these books than heresay.) Poor little fella.  Give him a hug for us.  I would talk to his Mom, by the way about what he should be allowed to watch…put your foot down.  That is so terrible to do that to a child. — zipper For lots of parenting tips and other useful information regarding childcare, visit my website! http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare/index.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi EveryOne… >I’m a single parent who has a very wonderfully imaginative young boy. Our >problem is that he saw the Horror movie "The Mummy" at his Mom’s 6 months or >so ago….. >Just my opinion, but a 7 year old shouldn’t have been watching "the Mummy" in >the first place.

Response:

A 7 year old shouldn’t watch the Mummy. But he did, and there probably wasn’t much you could do about it. You might want to have a talk with the mother about movies in the future. I’m not even letting my daughter watch Toy Story 2 (the first one scared ME!). What can you do about your son’s fears now? Try a little Mummy Spray (spray bottle with water and some essential oil to make it smell lovely).  Or you could try finding something like the Making of the mummy, and show him how they did it, and that it really isn’t real. You could always take him to a childrens theatre (with live actors or puppets) and then after the show take him backstage to meet the *characters* and show him that they were pretending. Just some ideas, I’d definatly talk to the mother though. She should have never let him watch it (but you probably know that) Jenn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi EveryOne… > I’m a single parent who has a very wonderfully imaginative young boy. Our > problem is that he saw the Horror movie "The Mummy" at his Mom’s 6 months or > so ago and has persistently expressed fears related to it ever since. He > doesn’t mention Nightmare’s per se but is constantly afraid to travel about > the house un-attended: especially his bedroom. > I’ve tried: > 1. Rationally discussing the ‘pretend’ nature of the movie in the past. > 2. Escorting him while adding greater and greater distances between us, but > he will revert back to square one, over and over. > 3. Discussed w/him ideas he might have to combat these fears as far as > lights and re-arranging things but so far no luck. > He uses our dog as an escort whenever he can convince him to follow him > around. Unfortunately, this has digressed to the point where he has reverted > back to sleeping in my room again. This occurs distinctly at Non-bedtimes > and I gave up insisting that he sleep in his own room over three months ago > to see if these fears could gently recede but they have not. I recently let > him know that we are going to re-do his room to make it as ‘Friendly’ as > possible so he can begin sleeping in there again. > We have always done an elaborate bedtime ritual including storytime/prayers. > He loves Harry Potter books and actually reads them himself now. The main > character / story line often surrounds defeating/coping with magical > creatures in what seems like a healthy way. > I wanted any ideas on how to help him work through these fears. > Should I watch the movie w/him and try to sterilize the parts that have > surely grown greatly in his imagination ??? > Other movies like Men In Black haven’t bothered him. > Thanx.

Response:

> >Hi EveryOne… >I’m a single parent who has a very wonderfully imaginative young boy. Our >problem is that he saw the Horror movie "The Mummy" at his Mom’s 6 months or >so ago….. > Just my opinion, but a 7 year old shouldn’t have been watching "the Mummy" in > the first place.

Mine too, but this is yet another of the natural consequences of a child having two homes at age 7.  The dad can’t do much about it now.

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Bret, You’ve gotten some good suggestions.  A couple of things that might work.  There was a Wishbone episode (Frankenstien) where they did a good job of showing how they create the monster make up. They explained each step in the process and at the end did a series of photos of the actor going through each step of the "transformation." Something like that might help him to see that the mummy was just an actor in make up.  Something that has worked with my children in the past was to find a movie where that same actor that was a bad guy plays something else.  I know I have seen the guy who played the mummy in other things.  But can’t for the life of me remember what.  (Well, I remember that he was in the sequel to "Dark Man" but that’s another scary one.  :-{)  And take some time to explain about actors and how they are just telling a story by pretending.   Now, all of that said, he is having trouble because to a 6 year old, anything they watch on TV, in the movies, etc. is very REAL.  Even though a part of their mind understands that it is only a movie, they still have that ability to totally suspend their disbelief.  I’ve done lots and lots of children’s theater.  So I’m very familiar with this.  (Was even before my kids came along.)  Have you seen the movie too without him?  In the end, they make the mummy mortal again with a spell from a magic book.  After that, he gets in a sword fight with Brandon Fraser’s character and is killed.  You might take that approach.  You know, "Well the mummy can’t possibly hurt you.  You see, he was the ONLY ONE that could come back to life, and he got killed at the end of the movie.  So there is no way he could come back again because he lost all his magic powers too."  I know it sounds really silly, but it might work.  "The Black Cauldron" scared the bejeepers out of my daughter.  (She’s 7.)  She told me several times that she was afraid the Horned King would come get her.  I asked her what happened to him at the end of the movie.  She said, "Well he got DESTROYED." (A favorite word of hers. lol)  I then asked if he had been destroyed was there still any reason to be afraid of him.  She said "well, no.  I guess not."  That was the last we heard of the Horned King.  Poof!  Not afraid of him any more.  So I know it sounds goofy, but it did work that time. It’s understandable that a 6 year old is having trouble with this.  It doesn’t say anything negative about him at all.  It says that he has a wonderful imagination.  And that’s never a bad thing.   You might even take it one step further.  A lot of parents on here have talked about "monster spray" (usually water in a spray bottle) their kids can use as a repellent for monsters under the bed, etc.  Since in this case the thing that was used was a book of spells, you could make him one. Just make a little book and put things in it like "My room is safe.  Safe it is."  Whatever.  Just make up little rhymes that would fit with making him feel safe, and able to sleep in his bed.  Give it to him and let him read aloud from it at bedtime.   Whatever works is a good thing.  I hope you find something to get him over this soon.  Keep us posted on how he does and what you decide to do. Good luck!! Sharon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi EveryOne… > I’m a single parent who has a very wonderfully imaginative young boy. Our > problem is that he saw the Horror movie "The Mummy" at his Mom’s 6 months or > so ago and has persistently expressed fears related to it ever since. He > doesn’t mention Nightmare’s per se but is constantly afraid to travel about > the house un-attended: especially his bedroom.

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>Try a little Mummy Spray (spray >bottle with water and some essential oil to make it smell lovely).  

When my son, out of the blue, came down and said there were monsters in his room we did two things.  We first told him there was no such thing as monsters and he was safe in his room but if he would feel better we’d spray some of the bug spray in his room.  His room needed a bit of Lysol anyway. Kendra Proud to be "Outlandish"! http://www.crosswinds.net/~graphicsbykendra http://www.crosswinds.net/~outlandish *Something to consider* "Amatures built the ark, professionals built the Titanic."

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>A 7 year old shouldn’t watch the Mummy. But he did, and there probably wasn’t >much you could do about it. You might want to have a talk with the mother about >movies in the future. I’m not even letting my daughter watch Toy Story 2 (the >first one scared ME!).

Sorry to veer off-topic a little, but I can’t for the life of me remember anything in Toy Story that would scare anyone. What was it that scared you? L. — Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity

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I wonder what was scary in Toy Story too, my 2 year old watches it EVERY DAY (fun for me) and I can’t think of a really scary part either. He sure isnt scared of it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->A 7 year old shouldn’t watch the Mummy. But he did, and there probably wasn’t >much you could do about it. You might want to have a talk with the mother >about >movies in the future. I’m not even letting my daughter watch Toy Story 2 >(the >first one scared ME!). >Sorry to veer off-topic a little, but I can’t for the life of me >remember anything in Toy Story that would scare anyone. >What was it that scared you?

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I’m glad someone else felt this way… Toy Story is my 2 year old’s favorite also! Marion—tampamom to Louis(6) and Erica(2) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I wonder what was scary in Toy Story too, my 2 year old watches it EVERY DAY >(fun for me) and I can’t think of a really scary part either. He sure isnt >scared of it. >A 7 year old shouldn’t watch the Mummy. But he did, and there probably wasn’t >>much you could do about it. You might want to have a talk with the mother >about >>movies in the future. I’m not even letting my daughter watch Toy Story 2 >(the >>first one scared ME!). >Sorry to veer off-topic a little, but I can’t for the life of me >remember anything in Toy Story that would scare anyone. >What was it that scared you?

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I don’t hink it is scary nor my two yo…maybe it is the idea of the toys actually being alive that scare her?? Jenn

:I wonder what was scary in Toy Story too, my 2 year old watches it EVERY DAY fun for me) and I can’t think of a really scary part either. He sure isnt :scared of it. : : :>A 7 year old shouldn’t watch the Mummy. But he did, and there probably wasn’t :>>much you could do about it. You might want to have a talk with the mother :>about :>>movies in the future. I’m not even letting my daughter watch Toy Story 2 :>(the :>>first one scared ME!). :> :>Sorry to veer off-topic a little, but I can’t for the life of me :>remember anything in Toy Story that would scare anyone. :> :>What was it that scared you? : :

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The creepy dolls next door. That didn’t scare anyone else! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I wonder what was scary in Toy Story too, my 2 year old watches it EVERY DAY > (fun for me) and I can’t think of a really scary part either. He sure isnt > scared of it. >A 7 year old shouldn’t watch the Mummy. But he did, and there probably wasn’t >>much you could do about it. You might want to have a talk with the mother >about >>movies in the future. I’m not even letting my daughter watch Toy Story 2 >(the >>first one scared ME!). >Sorry to veer off-topic a little, but I can’t for the life of me >remember anything in Toy Story that would scare anyone. >What was it that scared you?

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Angel here > Hi EveryOne… > I’m a single parent who has a very wonderfully imaginative young boy. Our > problem is that he saw the Horror movie "The Mummy" at his Mom’s 6 months or > so ago and has persistently expressed fears related to it ever since.

I made my mom turn it off back in October. My 4 was way too interested.  We went back to Prince of Egypt. Sometimes PG-13 is innocuous, sometimes it’s way too intense. We too did ok with MiB. However, around 3, my daughter developed a fear of monsters. We did 3 big things.   1) She was given a fly swatter, and told it was magic and would clobber the monsters. 2) I did a purge of her room.  Mama is a bard, bards are magic.  I recited The Monster Words (Shamelessly stolen from King’s _Cujo_ "Monsters stay out of this room…") and swept my staff under furniture, into closets and corners and all over. 3) We hung a dream catcher, and reduced her monster intake. It passed. Now she handles most monsters fine. I refuse to say anything is make-believe, but we do take the approach "It’s just a movie. And movies are like pictures in a book.  They can’t hurt us." Angel, who still has Zombie-Fear from _Night of the Living Dead_

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>The creepy dolls next door. That didn’t scare anyone else!

Those didn’t bother me, but I *was* a little freaked out when the toys went after Sid near the end! Tara P

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We’ve always used the monster spray approach (vanilla air freshener). Anything that gives the child power over what he/she is afraid of.  I allow only some PG13 for my 61/2 yo.  He loved both Jurassic Park movies as well as Godzilla, but I didn’t let him see MIB because of some of the language.  I told him right off that he couldn’t go see Mummy and he accepted it. BTW  Angel…your sign-off took me back a few years,  but the one that got me was Night’s sequel…Dawn of the Dead.  Saw it at the midnight show in a shopping mall…not a good idea! LOL Marion—tampamom to Louis(6) and Erica(2) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Angel here >I made my mom turn it off back in October. >My 4 was way too interested.  We went back to Prince of Egypt. >Sometimes PG-13 is innocuous, sometimes it’s way too intense. >We too did ok with MiB. >However, around 3, my daughter developed a fear of monsters. >We did 3 big things. >1) She was given a fly swatter, and told it was magic and would clobber >the monsters. >2) I did a purge of her room.  Mama is a bard, bards are magic.  I >recited >The Monster Words (Shamelessly stolen from King’s _Cujo_ "Monsters stay >out >of this room…") and swept my staff under furniture, into closets and >corners >and all over. >3) We hung a dream catcher, and reduced her monster intake. >Angel, who still has Zombie-Fear from _Night >of the Living Dead_

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Anyone else remember with dread an *ancient* b+w movie called something like "Cat Among the Pigeons" ? Saw that when I was very young — still have visions of hands coming out of the "secret panel" in the wall behind my bed to strangle me in my sleep … Yeeeuch. –Janet Elliot, Hanna, Connor  (10/21/96)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Angel here > Hi EveryOne… > I’m a single parent who has a very wonderfully imaginative young boy. Our > problem is that he saw the Horror movie "The Mummy" at his Mom’s 6 months or > so ago and has persistently expressed fears related to it ever since. > I made my mom turn it off back in October. > My 4 was way too interested.  We went back to Prince of Egypt. > Sometimes PG-13 is innocuous, sometimes it’s way too intense. > We too did ok with MiB. > However, around 3, my daughter developed a fear of monsters. > We did 3 big things. > 1) She was given a fly swatter, and told it was magic and would clobber > the monsters. > 2) I did a purge of her room.  Mama is a bard, bards are magic.  I > recited > The Monster Words (Shamelessly stolen from King’s _Cujo_ "Monsters stay > out > of this room…") and swept my staff under furniture, into closets and > corners > and all over. > 3) We hung a dream catcher, and reduced her monster intake. > It passed. > Now she handles most monsters fine. > I refuse to say anything is make-believe, but > we do take the approach "It’s just a movie. And > movies are like pictures in a book.  They > can’t hurt us." > Angel, who still has Zombie-Fear from _Night > of the Living Dead_

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> We too did ok with MiB.

 Wasn’t Men in Black rated R? What was "The Mummy" rated? Does everyone just disreguard the ratings? J Before you buy.

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We do the same thing with my son.  We also made a large sign and posted it on his door…"No Monsters Allowed!"  Makes him feel a little better.  His thoughts of monsters are very real to him. — zipper For lots of parenting tips and other useful information regarding childcare, visit my website! http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare/index.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Try a little Mummy Spray (spray >bottle with water and some essential oil to make it smell lovely). >When my son, out of the blue, came down and said there were monsters in his >room we did two things.  We first told him there was no such thing as monsters >and he was safe in his room but if he would feel better we’d spray some of the >bug spray in his room.  His room needed a bit of Lysol anyway. >Kendra >Proud to be "Outlandish"! >http://www.crosswinds.net/~graphicsbykendra >http://www.crosswinds.net/~outlandish >*Something to consider* >"Amatures built the ark, professionals built the Titanic."

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The part of the mean boy, (can’t remember his name) when he was torturing the toys…and dismembered toys were walking all around the room. My son reacted to this scene.  But he has watched the move a hundred times and he enjoys it nonetheless. — zipper For lots of parenting tips and other useful information regarding childcare, visit my website! http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare/index.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->A 7 year old shouldn’t watch the Mummy. But he did, and there probably wasn’t >much you could do about it. You might want to have a talk with the mother about >movies in the future. I’m not even letting my daughter watch Toy Story 2 (the >first one scared ME!). >Sorry to veer off-topic a little, but I can’t for the life of me >remember anything in Toy Story that would scare anyone. >What was it that scared you? >L. >– >Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity

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> >The creepy dolls next door. That didn’t scare anyone else! > Those didn’t bother me, but I *was* a little freaked out when the toys went > after Sid near the end! > Tara P

LOL  My two kids were cheering for the toys when they went after Sid.  They didn’t understand the reference to "The Exorcist" when Woody’s head spun all the way around.  (Since there is no way they are going to watch that movie!!)  But I sure did and I got a little giggle out of it.   I think the thing I liked most about BOTH Toy Story movies was the way they were written with things like that in there.  They were obviously written for parents and children to watch TOGETHER without either group being bored or insulted.  Too a fun part in Toy Story 2, was the cameo appearance by Geri.  He was in the short at the beginning of "Bug’s Life."  When he popped up in TS2, my 3 year old son said, "Hey, it’s the guy with the teeth that plays in the park!!"  lol Sharon

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Angel here > We too did ok with MiB. >  Wasn’t Men in Black rated R?

Nope, PG-13.  And I screened it before letting the kids see it. The language was no worse than what they were hearing at school.  And it was at least grammatically correct (which most at school is not). We explain that nice people do not talk that way. The violence was so fantasy level that the kids had no problem. Maybe it’s ironic: I’ll let them see MiB, with blue entrails blown over the landscape, but I won’t let them watch _Lion in Winter_ because of psychological violence. > What was "The Mummy" rated?

PG-13, also. > Does everyone just disreguard the ratings?

I use them as a guide.   My kids do not see R rated movies.   Period.  These days I seldom see R-rated movies, as the vulgarity of the language assaulting my ears is seldom worth the story line. Eventually, worthwhile ones like Schindler’s List and Saving Private Ryan will make their watch list. But they can wait until they are 17 to see things like Devil’s Advocate and Rosemary’s Baby. They do not see graphically violent PG-13 or PG movies. Fistfights upset me more than laser pistols.  I would not let the watch _Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom_ {pg} (too gross) but _Jurassic Park_ {Pg-13} was not an issue.  _Dracula: Dead and Loving it_ was too gory.  (Esp since my arm had gone gusher at the dr’s the week before) But Tod Browning’s _Dracula_ was fine.  My daughter got bored. G movies get screened, and well.  My kids have no Disney problems.   NR stuff gets checked out very thoroughly. Danny Kaye movies work.  Marx brothers, we’re more careful on.  _My Little Chickadee_ and _Birth of a Nation_ can wait until they are older. Angel, more lenient than her own folks were.

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<snip description> I can tell you what we’ve done with our 3 1/2 year old son when he’s seen things like that (we don’t let him watch movies of that type, but he’s caught bits and pieces of them and of TV shows I watch like "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" before we’ve had a chance to turn them off): We’ve taken the route of explaining that it’s all pretend, that it’s a real person dressed as a monster, but they put on make-up ("like mommy?" "no, not really") and pretend to be monsters. Then we explain how there are no real monsters in the world and that TV is alot of pretend. Then we’ve compared it to some of his video tapes, especially "Look There Goes a [whatever]". We tell him that the monsters are pretend just like Dave on his video tapes only pretends to be a monster truck driver/fireman/policeman/EMT/construction foreman/etc. Now when he sees anything like that, he just says it’s only pretend. He’s never, to my knowledge, had a bad dream or irrational fear because of them. Is mise le meas, |        Visit the #gaeilge website at http://welcome.to/gaeilge         | |        "What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"        | |   Unsolicited email to this address is acceptance of a $500 per day    | |   storage fee to be paid within 30 days of the sending of the email.   |

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> Chewables are just as much a problem as liquids.  The only thing he didn’t > mind was chewable vitamins.  All others: Tylenol, Benadryl, Motrin, Sudafed > you name it he hates it.   The new dissolvable ones are only slightly > better.  That’s why I thought that stuff in capsule form might be easier > because there is no taste.  Obviously, I would have to get dosage OK’s from > the pediatrician.  But I was wondering how you actually teach them to > swallow something w/o chewing it first.

My six year old takes capsules.  The pharmicist told her to take the capsule and a mouthful of water and put her head down (forward, not back), and swallow, because the capsules float.  She does fine, though sometimes it takes a few sips. — "But in such cases as these, a good memory is unpardonable."  Jane Austen (Pride and Prejudice)

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If your son is 6, he should be able to tolerate the chewables in OTC medications.  Ask your pediatrician about pill forms of prescribed medications or other ways of dispensing the medication that won’t interfere with it’s effectiveness. — Jackie M. Proud Mom to Bridget, 8; Catherine, 6 1/2; and our newest lil guy, Conor, 7 Months "I was going to go out and conquer the world today… … but I couldn’t find a babysitter!"

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>Chewables are just as much a problem as liquids.  The only thing he didn’t >mind was chewable vitamins.  All others: Tylenol, Benadryl, Motrin, Sudafed >you name it he hates it.   The new dissolvable ones are only slightly >better.  That’s why I thought that stuff in capsule form might be easier >because there is no taste.  Obviously, I would have to get dosage OK’s from >the pediatrician.  But I was wondering how you actually teach them to >swallow something w/o chewing it first. >Marion—Tampamom to Louis(6) and Erica(2)

Just have him place it on the back of his tongue and then swallow as big a glass of water as he can manage.  Quick is the key!!  He’d probably never try it again if he accidentally panicked and chewed it as it would most likely taste really awful.  Could you have him practice a couple of times with something pill sized (like a mini M&M) so he learns with something good tasting  This worked with my cousin when she just turned 6.  She wasn’t really adverse to medicine though. HTH – Nikki

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<<At what age can you introduce pill taking as opposed to liquid or chewable medications? >> If your child is putting up such a fuss about liquids and chewables, I can’t imagine that trying to get him to swallow a pill will be any better. Some kids are just put off by taking any kind of medicine. Mytwo oldest never gave me a problem at all with taking anything. I think my daughter was about 9 when she suggested swallowing pills. My son prefers liquids over chewables. My youngest daughter used to hate everything. It was always a battle with a capital B to get her to take anything. Now she’ll take Dimetapp liquid and that’s it. At least it’s something. Have you tried the new pills that dissolve instantly in the mouth? If you can pop one in the kids mouth, it’ dissolves before they know what hit them. Might be the best way to go. I know Triaminic makes them and maybe other companies now as well. Good Luck. Mainmom to Tara (13) Joseph (4) Sierra (3)

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I started giving my kids chewable vitamins when they turned 1 and also chewable tylenol at the same age.  It seemed more like candy to them, (although I never told them that). — zipper For lots of parenting tips and other useful information regarding childcare, visit my website! http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare/index.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >At what age can you introduce pill taking as opposed to liquid or chewable >medications?  And how do you do it?  I am so tired of fighting with my 6yo >about medicines.  He throws more of a tantrum than the 2yo to the point of >choking, gagging and >sometimes even throwing up!  And forget about disguising liquids in his >food…he notices the taste change every time! >Marion—Tampamom to Louis(6) and Erica(2)

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Chewables are just as much a problem as liquids.  The only thing he didn’t mind was chewable vitamins.  All others: Tylenol, Benadryl, Motrin, Sudafed you name it he hates it.   The new dissolvable ones are only slightly better.  That’s why I thought that stuff in capsule form might be easier because there is no taste.  Obviously, I would have to get dosage OK’s from the pediatrician.  But I was wondering how you actually teach them to swallow something w/o chewing it first. Marion—Tampamom to Louis(6) and Erica(2) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I started giving my kids chewable vitamins when they turned 1 and also chewable >tylenol at the same age.  It seemed more like candy to them, (although I never >told them that). >– >zipper >For lots of parenting tips and other useful information regarding childcare, >visit my website! >http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare/index.html >At what age can you introduce pill taking as opposed to liquid or chewable >medications?  And how do you do it?  I am so tired of fighting with my 6yo >about medicines.  He throws more of a tantrum than the 2yo to the point of >choking, gagging and >sometimes even throwing up!  And forget about disguising liquids in his >food…he notices the taste change every time! >Marion—Tampamom to Louis(6) and Erica(2)

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At what age can you introduce pill taking as opposed to liquid or chewable medications?  And how do you do it?  I am so tired of fighting with my 6yo about medicines.  He throws more of a tantrum than the 2yo to the point of choking, gagging and sometimes even throwing up!  And forget about disguising liquids in his food…he notices the taste change every time! Marion—Tampamom to Louis(6) and Erica(2)

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> At what age can you introduce pill taking as opposed to liquid or chewable > medications?  And how do you do it?  I am so tired of fighting with my 6yo > about medicines.  He throws more of a tantrum than the 2yo to the point of > choking, gagging and > sometimes even throwing up!  And forget about disguising liquids in his > food…he notices the taste change every time!

        If the dosage is appropriate and the pill isn’t huge and your son can swallow the pill, I don’t see why there would be a problem. Do you know he could swallow a pill whole? Good luck, Ericka Kammerer

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > He obviously needed the antibiotics!  He is starting to feel better today.  He > had a cold last week.  Started to feel better, then whammo, he gets hit with > this fever.  I don’t know but in my books and from what I have studied in > health/children…when a child gets a fever after having had a cold, it means > infection most times. > I would not want my children to be antibiotics unneccesarily, I know antibiotics > do nothing for colds, but his cold turned into an infection.   There is no way I > would let my son continue to feel so sick, when he was lethargic and fever of > 105 degrees.  A temperature that high usually means someone is not well.   I > know my son and he was "Really sick".  His congestion is hidden.  I still > haven’t heard him cough, no phlegm nothing.  But that is the way my son is.  The > mucous has started to come out in his poop, last night and he is starting to > feel better. > Bronchitis does not mean cold.  It is an infection in the bronchial tubes.  The > doctor said he needed the antibiotics to clear it up or he would continue the > fevering and he would have to go the hospital. > Rough night last night because of the fevers but he is perking up today.  I > don’t think that is coincidental. > P.S.  I don’t need a culture to tell me that he was not well.  Sometimes you > just know these things.  It;s just like when they get strep or ear infections, > you sort of just know the difference between a normal cold, sore throat, earache > and when it has gone bad into an infection. > — > zipper

sounds like antibiotics WERE appropriate.  But bronchitis just means inflamation of the bronchi — could be a chest cold or a secondary infection.  It is not a particularly serious thing necessarily.  And it is not necessarily a bacterial infection — although it appears to be in this case.  A cold IS an infection. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> For lots of parenting tips and other useful information regarding childcare, > visit my website! > http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare/index.html >Putting names on things doesn’t make them more serious e.g. congested or >chest cold is pretty much the same as bronchitis.  Bronchitis is not >necessarily >’really sick’ — it is a chest cold.  Probably not even bacterial and >antibiotics are not necessary — but that is another thread.  [I see no >evidence that cultures were done before the antibiotics were prescribed] >Sounds like the doctor did tell Dad what was wrong.

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Is it possible the doc told him what it was for and he either was paying attention (focused on Jory) or forgot what was said? I am not trying to say it is all your husband’s fault, just that it is a posiblity, my hubby has done it!  Our doctor writes everything down on the paper on the exam table. It makes it easier to remember things for everybody. My hubby does good to remember where our doctors offices are,  and always forgets their names!! Anytime he goes I have to remind him to find out what any meds are for, and don’t loose the directions! Hope Jory is feeling better soon. Liz

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Your DH sounds like a typical DH <G> although I’m not sure mine even knoews where the drs office is  :) Some people (both moms and dads) don’t question the drs, take the script and leave. I’ve often encouraged my friends to a) question whats being done and b) get a new dr. I’m often amaxed at the way somew people LET their dr treat them. I hope your little guy is feeling better, we’ve done bronchitus and it’s not fun, ChrisOD Mom-to-Mom http://www.cluein.com/cluein/public_summary.html?cid=R1556 A messageboard run by a Mom, for other Moms all about being Moms

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Different style of Dr. and different style of parent. My husband goes to his own Dr. and comes back without knowing what happened!! I’m not a big Dr. person, but when I have to go, I make sure I don’t leave until I’m satisfied. A few weeks ago I took my daughter to the Dr.’s to see about dermatitis that she had. We never go to the Dr.’s and they wanted to do a TB test on her. So I figured okay. As soon as they did that, they pricked her finger to check her blood. Nobody asked me or even said they would do that until my daughter was screaming after it was over. I never even saw it coming. As far as I’m concerned, totally out of line. Then before I knew what happened, the Dr. gives me a scrip to take my daughter to the hospital to have venous blood pulled to check for lead. Just tells me to do it and then tells me to bring her back in three weeks for more blood because her iron is a little low. (barely) He also tried to talk me into the chickenpox vaccine. No explanation, no asking if it was okay, no discussion. Point being I was totally taken by surprise which is what a lot of Dr.’s count on. It’s quicker that way. No discussions and questions to answer. They know now how I feel and if I ever have to go back for anything, we won’t be seeing that Dr. Take charge and make sure as parents that we slow down when in the Dr.’s office. If you have to say "wait a minute" and gather your thoughts, so be it. And never leave until you’re satisfied. Mainmom to Tara (13) Joseph (4) Sierra (3)

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He obviously needed the antibiotics!  He is starting to feel better today.  He had a cold last week.  Started to feel better, then whammo, he gets hit with this fever.  I don’t know but in my books and from what I have studied in health/children…when a child gets a fever after having had a cold, it means infection most times. I would not want my children to be antibiotics unneccesarily, I know antibiotics do nothing for colds, but his cold turned into an infection.   There is no way I would let my son continue to feel so sick, when he was lethargic and fever of 105 degrees.  A temperature that high usually means someone is not well.   I know my son and he was "Really sick".  His congestion is hidden.  I still haven’t heard him cough, no phlegm nothing.  But that is the way my son is.  The mucous has started to come out in his poop, last night and he is starting to feel better. Bronchitis does not mean cold.  It is an infection in the bronchial tubes.  The doctor said he needed the antibiotics to clear it up or he would continue the fevering and he would have to go the hospital. Rough night last night because of the fevers but he is perking up today.  I don’t think that is coincidental. P.S.  I don’t need a culture to tell me that he was not well.  Sometimes you just know these things.  It;s just like when they get strep or ear infections, you sort of just know the difference between a normal cold, sore throat, earache and when it has gone bad into an infection. — zipper For lots of parenting tips and other useful information regarding childcare, visit my website! http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare/index.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Putting names on things doesn’t make them more serious e.g. congested or >chest cold is pretty much the same as bronchitis.  Bronchitis is not >necessarily >’really sick’ — it is a chest cold.  Probably not even bacterial and >antibiotics are not necessary — but that is another thread.  [I see no >evidence that cultures were done before the antibiotics were prescribed] >Sounds like the doctor did tell Dad what was wrong.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hope your little one feels better real soon.  I got a call myself last > night about 11PM saying, Mom, Maranda has a 105 temp, what do I do?  I > don’t want to undress her, it’s cold outside.  I said she’s already > sick!  I gave her the proceedure and told her it sounded like croup. > Sure enough this morning at 7 they were in the doctor’s off. & it was > croup.  Poppy (DH) ran to fill her prescription & get Gatoraid & juice > for her.  SIL had to go on to work.  I made a list for DH explaining > what not to substitute, teehee.  I know his style.  If something else > looks better, he get it instead.  I had to get the other one to > school.  See, when they all live in town, it never ends. > Hugs, Judy > Judy, > Would you be interested at all in moving to > Southern Indiana???  I just had to say what a > wonderful set of grandparents to have!!  My folks > are the same way. They would do just about > anything to help out.  But they live 2 1/2 hours > away now.  :-{  You let me know if you feel like > moving.  The house right behind us is empty now. > You could move right in any time you wanted.  :-} > I am sure your girls all value you and Poppy very > much.  They are so lucky to have parents that care > so much! > **Hugs** > Sharon

Well my goodness, Sharon, what a nice thing to take time & tell me. Thank you very much for the compliment.  I’m from the midwest, KC, Mo. & my dad still lives in Independence, Mo. Most of my family came from north Mo-farmers.  Helping the family was just what everyone did. I’d consider moving because of the snow, the 5 yr old wants to play in it (teehee).  Have to say it is so nice to have them all close to us and all 3 seem to call every day for something or other (& one lives with us).  I lost my mom much tooooo early 8 yrs ago at.  She always jumped & ran when we needed her too.  It’s nice being a close family. There’s always someone to help.  You give your family a big hug and yourself too.  I’ll let you know if we decide to move  I’d say your parents & your family are lucky to have "you". Another Hug, Judy

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> Hope your little one feels better real soon.  I got a call myself last > night about 11PM saying, Mom, Maranda has a 105 temp, what do I do?  I > don’t want to undress her, it’s cold outside.  I said she’s already > sick!  I gave her the proceedure and told her it sounded like croup. > Sure enough this morning at 7 they were in the doctor’s off. & it was > croup.  Poppy (DH) ran to fill her prescription & get Gatoraid & juice > for her.  SIL had to go on to work.  I made a list for DH explaining > what not to substitute, teehee.  I know his style.  If something else > looks better, he get it instead.  I had to get the other one to > school.  See, when they all live in town, it never ends. > Hugs, Judy

Judy, Would you be interested at all in moving to Southern Indiana???  I just had to say what a wonderful set of grandparents to have!!  My folks are the same way. They would do just about anything to help out.  But they live 2 1/2 hours away now.  :-{  You let me know if you feel like moving.  The house right behind us is empty now. You could move right in any time you wanted.  :-} I am sure your girls all value you and Poppy very much.  They are so lucky to have parents that care so much! **Hugs** Sharon

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My son was up all night with high fever and lethargy.  Had a cold last week, so > I figured an ear infection.  My DH brought him to the doctor this morning, and > came back with a prescription for Pediazole antibiotics. > When I asked my husband what was wrong with Jory, my husband said he had no > idea…other than the doctor said he was congested.  I was truly erratic at this > point, assuming the doctor gave my son a prescription for a cold, so I called > the doctor.  Found out he has bronchitis.  He is really sick, poor little guy. > What pissed me off, is that the doctor just wrote a prescription without telling > my husband what it was for.  I had to give my husband a little lesson about > doctor’s visits.  I always ask what the prescriptions are for and ask a tonne of > questions before I leave the office.  I suppose since my husband didn’t ask, she > didn’t offer the information.  But don’t you all think a doctor should reveal > this information when they are prescribing medication?

Putting names on things doesn’t make them more serious e.g. congested or chest cold is pretty much the same as bronchitis.  Bronchitis is not necessarily ‘really sick’ — it is a chest cold.  Probably not even bacterial and antibiotics are not necessary — but that is another thread.  [I see no evidence that cultures were done before the antibiotics were prescribed] Sounds like the doctor did tell Dad what was wrong.

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My son was up all night with high fever and lethargy.  Had a cold last week, so I figured an ear infection.  My DH brought him to the doctor this morning, and came back with a prescription for Pediazole antibiotics. When I asked my husband what was wrong with Jory, my husband said he had no idea…other than the doctor said he was congested.  I was truly erratic at this point, assuming the doctor gave my son a prescription for a cold, so I called the doctor.  Found out he has bronchitis.  He is really sick, poor little guy. What pissed me off, is that the doctor just wrote a prescription without telling my husband what it was for.  I had to give my husband a little lesson about doctor’s visits.  I always ask what the prescriptions are for and ask a tonne of questions before I leave the office.  I suppose since my husband didn’t ask, she didn’t offer the information.  But don’t you all think a doctor should reveal this information when they are prescribing medication? — zipper For lots of parenting tips and other useful information regarding childcare, visit my website! http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare/index.html

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Hello Zipper, I truly hope that Jory is feeling better soon.   I think that your message is indicative of a couple of things.  First, each parent usually has very different parenting styles, and my hubby probably would have done the exact same thing as yours, and I would have freaked out just as you have done.   The other thing is that Doctors are extremely busy people who seem to forget that not everyone went to medical school.  I have to take notes at my Dr.’s office and then come home and look up what she was talking about.   I am not saying this is right by any means, nor am I saying that all doctors are like this – so Please don’t anyone flame me , but some think of their Dr.’s word as gospel and just obey with out question.   Personally, I think it is perhaps healthier to think of your Dr. as an extremely skilled professional who is providing you with a service, and if your service expectations aren’t being met, then another Dr. should be located.   I don’t think a prescription should ever be written for a child without it being fully explained to the parents, and I also think that parents should make sure they understand what medication they are giving to their children and why.   Anyway, as I mentioned before I hope your little guy is feeling better very quickly.   Warm regards, Tania

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As an in general thing, I have noticed that doctors tend to talk more to mothers than fathers, almost like fathers are incapable of understanding or something.  I don’t quite know why this is, maybe it has to do with the stereotype of mothers being the primary care giver. I have also found out that my husband doesn’t ask questions about his own medications that he has to take (so maybe this is just one of those "guy things" that irratate us).  The last time my husband came back from the doctor with all of his drugs (thyroid medication refill, blood pressure medication due to complications with his thyroid and all of his asthma meds – some of which were changed) I had to look at them and explain them to him – what they were for, how to take them and so on (since the goofball had the directions for two of his asthma medications reversed, had I not gotten that straightened out with him there would have been an emergency room visit there).  I just want to scream sometimes.  At the very least he remembers who is allergic to what and makes sure that they aren’t given that medication. Hope your little one is fillng better soon. Georga – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My son was up all night with high fever and lethargy.  Had a cold last week, so > I figured an ear infection.  My DH brought him to the doctor this morning, and > came back with a prescription for Pediazole antibiotics. > When I asked my husband what was wrong with Jory, my husband said he had no > idea…other than the doctor said he was congested.  I was truly erratic at this > point, assuming the doctor gave my son a prescription for a cold, so I called > the doctor.  Found out he has bronchitis.  He is really sick, poor little guy. > What pissed me off, is that the doctor just wrote a prescription without telling > my husband what it was for.  I had to give my husband a little lesson about > doctor’s visits.  I always ask what the prescriptions are for and ask a tonne of > questions before I leave the office.  I suppose since my husband didn’t ask, she > didn’t offer the information.  But don’t you all think a doctor should reveal > this information when they are prescribing medication? > — > zipper > For lots of parenting tips and other useful information regarding childcare, > visit my website! > http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare/index.html

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Yeah, that one always seems like a no brainer to me.  I know and understand that they get very busy.  But still, you want to have a name to put on what is wrong with your child. And too there are other things besides medicine that can help with certain things.  You need to know what’s wrong to know what else to do.  Glad you got some answers when you called back. Bronchitis is no fun at all.  Poor little guy. :-{  The vaporizer might help if you can run that at night in his room.  And when he feels like taking a bath, keep the bathroom door closed to keep the steam in there.  That will help loosen things up too.   Did they give you a prescription for an expectorant too or just the antibiotics?  Whenever my DD has had bronchitis before, she always gets the "nasty" cough medicine.  If they didn’t give you one, you might look for a robitussin with expectorant.  It’s really gross tasting, but it works well.   **hugs** to you and Jory.  I know how hard it is to see your little ones sick.  :-{  Hope he bounces back really quick!! Sharon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My son was up all night with high fever and lethargy.  Had a cold last week, so > I figured an ear infection.  My DH brought him to the doctor this morning, and > came back with a prescription for Pediazole antibiotics. > When I asked my husband what was wrong with Jory, my husband said he had no > idea…other than the doctor said he was congested.  I was truly erratic at this > point, assuming the doctor gave my son a prescription for a cold, so I called > the doctor.  Found out he has bronchitis.  He is really sick, poor little guy. > What pissed me off, is that the doctor just wrote a prescription without telling > my husband what it was for.  I had to give my husband a little lesson about > doctor’s visits.  I always ask what the prescriptions are for and ask a tonne of > questions before I leave the office.  I suppose since my husband didn’t ask, she > didn’t offer the information.  But don’t you all think a doctor should reveal > this information when they are prescribing medication? > — > zipper > For lots of parenting tips and other useful information regarding childcare, > visit my website! > http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare/index.html

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> My son was up all night with high fever and lethargy.  Had a cold last week, so > I figured an ear infection.  My DH brought him to the doctor this

morning, and .  But don’t you all think a doctor should reveal > this information when they are prescribing medication? > zipper

Hi Zipper, My big guy would just be so proud to have been the one to get the munchkins to the doctors.  The rest would be up to me.  Been going to our pediatrician for 30 yrs (Ooops, yea the eldest is 30) now and I know I say this a lot, but she just has a 6th sense about doctoring the children.  Now my girls take theirs to her.  She  has 3 others in the firm and now they all have a standard proceedure of writing down all directions for whoever brings the child in.  They operate on the premise that you are too upset to remember all they tell you.  It is always on blue paper so I know what color of all papers she gives me is the one with directions.  Granted it may be minimal, but I never have to think.  It will tell me how much of what to give how often & for how long, all abrev .  It will tell me if I’m to call back & when for results of any tests, etc.  If it’s a ck up, it will give the wt & ht.  It’s not a real complicated form, just blue paper she always uses.   The bill is usually checked on the back as what the diagnosis is & what shots were given.  So with this idea in mind, how about printing yourself some forms on the computer & take with you whenever you go to the doctor & hand him to fill out for you.  It might even give him the idea to start this for all his patients. Hope your little one feels better real soon.  I got a call myself last night about 11PM saying, Mom, Maranda has a 105 temp, what do I do?  I don’t want to undress her, it’s cold outside.  I said she’s already sick!  I gave her the proceedure and told her it sounded like croup. Sure enough this morning at 7 they were in the doctor’s off. & it was croup.  Poppy (DH) ran to fill her prescription & get Gatoraid & juice for her.  SIL had to go on to work.  I made a list for DH explaining what not to substitute, teehee.  I know his style.  If something else looks better, he get it instead.  I had to get the other one to school.  See, when they all live in town, it never ends. Hugs, Judy

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The other thing is that Doctors are extremely busy people who seem to > forget that not everyone went to medical school.  I have to take notes > at my Dr.’s office and then come home and look up what she was talking > about. > I am not saying this is right by any means, nor am I saying that all > doctors are like this – so Please don’t anyone flame me , but some > think of their Dr.’s word as gospel and just obey with out question. > Personally, I think it is perhaps healthier to think of your Dr. as an > extremely skilled professional who is providing you with a service, and > if your service expectations aren’t being met, then another Dr. should > be located. > I don’t think a prescription should ever be written for a child without > it being fully explained to the parents, and I also think that parents > should make sure they understand what medication they are giving to > their children and why. > Anyway, as I mentioned before I hope your little guy is feeling better > very quickly. > Warm regards, > Tania

I agree with Tania.  A doctor is a professional that you are going  to with a problem.  Just like a plumber or an electrician. If the plumber came out to your house you would ask him(or her) what is wrong and how much will it cost? You are the customer and you can go somewhere else- and you can complain if you don’t get good service. But you also have responsibilty to do your part and to ask questions. J Before you buy.

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In "Bottom Line", vol. 20 no. 12, I read an article on parenting tips that had some ideas I had not seen before [at least that I *recall* seeing them before!].  I thought some of you all would find some interesting, helpful, or even cute.  I hope I am not violating any copy write laws or anything to paraphrase the article by Mimi Greenwood Knight…. She says that she grew up in a family of 12 and that she admired her mother’s apparent ability to keep cool under all circumstances.  Then she lists some suggestions for different problems. She says to sing requests instead of shouting them.  Kids are used to parents telling what to do and may well ignore you, but will often stop and listen when you do something relatively novel.  She gives the example to sign "Stop teasing your sister" to Pop Goes the Weasel. When putting things away she suggests that each child involved select a number of things they will put away and then do so.  If this leaves more things to put away then everyone selects a new number and another bunch of stuff gets put away until everything is done. Color coding of kids possessions so each kid has things that are a different color.  Things like one kid has blue towels, another has green, etc.  That avoids arguments about who’s something is…. To help kids get going on cleaning she suggests making a contest out of it by having things like cleaning contests between two or more kids [or maybe you and your kids!] to see who gets done first.  Or maybe write the chores on slips of paper and everyone pulls from the hat. On sibling rivalry she says that encouraging the older kids to realize that the younger kids look up and admire them and that they should therefore be a good role model for them and to tell the littler ones that their older sibs . are trying to be good examples is helpful.  Also, praising diplomatically, without comparing kids to each other. And, most important, always be positive, no matter how hard it feels today. I have pretty much paraphrased and interpreted her article because I am really not sure about copyright laws.  I thought it was really neat.  Bottom Line can be obtained at Box 58446, Boulder, CO 80322 and they have a web site at 222.boardroom.com/email where you can get their weekly email letter. [I am *not* trying to advertise for them.] -Aula, always looking for good resources in this parenting adventure.

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excellent common sense advice. Thanks for the reminder. —  kids ‘n cats…., ya GOTTA love ‘em!  says hunnybunnyfunnybunny (come visit us @ http://millennium.fortunecity.com/treearbor/834

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In "Bottom Line", vol. 20 no. 12, I read an article on parenting tips that > had some ideas I had not seen before [at least that I *recall* seeing them > before!].  I thought some of you all would find some interesting, helpful, > or even cute.  I hope I am not violating any copy write laws or anything to > paraphrase the article by Mimi Greenwood Knight…. > She says that she grew up in a family of 12 and that she admired her > mother’s apparent ability to keep cool under all circumstances.  Then she > lists some suggestions for different problems. > She says to sing requests instead of shouting them.  Kids are used to > parents telling what to do and may well ignore you, but will often stop and > listen when you do something relatively novel.  She gives the example to > sign "Stop teasing your sister" to Pop Goes the Weasel. > When putting things away she suggests that each child involved select a > number of things they will put away and then do so.  If this leaves more > things to put away then everyone selects a new number and another bunch of > stuff gets put away until everything is done. > Color coding of kids possessions so each kid has things that are a different > color.  Things like one kid has blue towels, another has green, etc.  That > avoids arguments about who’s something is…. > To help kids get going on cleaning she suggests making a contest out of it > by having things like cleaning contests between two or more kids [or maybe > you and your kids!] to see who gets done first.  Or maybe write the chores > on slips of paper and everyone pulls from the hat. > On sibling rivalry she says that encouraging the older kids to realize that > the younger kids look up and admire them and that they should therefore be a > good role model for them and to tell the littler ones that their older sibs > . are trying to be good examples is helpful.  Also, praising diplomatically, > without comparing kids to each other. > And, most important, always be positive, no matter how hard it feels today. > I have pretty much paraphrased and interpreted her article because I am > really not sure about copyright laws.  I thought it was really neat. Bottom > Line can be obtained at Box 58446, Boulder, CO 80322 and they have a web > site at 222.boardroom.com/email where you can get their weekly email letter. > [I am *not* trying to advertise for them.] > -Aula, always looking for good resources in this parenting adventure.

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